Boost to all classes their vit by 560 in pvp

Boost to all classes their vit by 560 in pvp

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

Could you boost to all classes their vit by 560 in pvp?
With HoT, dmg has gone up quite a lot. A bit higher vit to everyone, would be fitting.

There are several classes, who really cant afford to roll an amulet, without vit, because their base vit is to low for the HoT pvp.
This limits them quite a lot in their amulet choice.
Everyone having more vit would help this out.

There would still be the difference in vit between classes, because everyone gets more vit, however everyone would have the minimal amount of vit that they need (and some would have more).

Vit is also better vs conditions than power (due to toughness ignoring conditions and toughness making vit as a pair stronger vs power).

Meaning more vit, would also help battling conditions some more, which are considered having become a bit to strong.

Please share your input.
Would more vit be a good idea?
Yes, no, why?

(edited by Yashuoa.9527)

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Posted by: Shirlias.8104

Shirlias.8104

would be like give celestial users an extra stats ( and replacing celestial would be less hard ).

I would prefer to lower some dmg instead ( as thief i “must” go with marauder cause over 10k instadmg. sometimes over15kinstadmg, to reach at least 17k healt ).

Lets try with new necks and balances and see.

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

would be like give celestial users an extra stats ( and replacing celestial would be less hard ).

I would prefer to lower some dmg instead ( as thief i “must” go with marauder cause over 10k instadmg. sometimes over15kinstadmg, to reach at least 17k healt ).

Lets try with new necks and balances and see.

I meant this change for the upcoming patch when Celestial is gone.

Boosting people their vit is easier than having to reduce all classes their dmg, which could be problematic in pve too, or you would need to split it up for pvp and pve for all classes.

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Posted by: Shirlias.8104

Shirlias.8104

It won’t be easier.

Zerk classes will need to stay more into the fight to kill a target, and bunkers will have more time before going down, which will give em the chance to use one more time supports skills or heal.

With next patch ANET is trying ( i would have said going instead, but i want facts before ) to put an end to Hybrids by removing celestial. Also chronomancer seems to be finally gone cause changes, so one bunker less left ( hybrids could have been quite a thing, but anet in over 1 years show us that he is not able to balance em, so let the celestial go is the best way imho ).

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

It won’t be easier.

Zerk classes will need to stay more into the fight to kill a target, and bunkers will have more time before going down, which will give em the chance to use one more time supports skills or heal.

With next patch ANET is trying ( i would have said going instead, but i want facts before ) to put an end to Hybrids by removing celestial. Also chronomancer seems to be finally gone cause changes, so one bunker less left ( hybrids could have been quite a thing, but anet in over 1 years show us that he is not able to balance em, so let the celestial go is the best way imho ).

Maybe delete one of your posts?
You made a double one with the same content.

Those zerk classes can also stay longer in the fight, due to the extra vit they have as well. So that can even out. Or they can go for more offensive stats at the cost of vit.

(edited by Yashuoa.9527)

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Posted by: Shirlias.8104

Shirlias.8104

Play a thief or a shatter mesmer, then come back to talk again.

You don’t know what are you talking about.

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

Play a thief or a shatter mesmer, then come back to talk again.

You don’t know what are you talking about.

I know fine what I am talking about, as I explain myself.

As said, you can go for more offensive stats, like berserker instead of Marauder, because you would have extra vit. So you will do more dmg as zerker with that amulet.

Thief doesnt seem like they would have trouble with this change after the patch.
They would welcome an option for extra vit, as they still have the danger of getting instagibbed.

That leaves Shatter Mesmer. If they would still have a problem with the extra vit (if it would be more disadvantage than advantage), than
that problem could be fixed by buffing that build.

If most classes benifit from the extra vit change, than it would be odd to not do it, just because of shatter mesmer (which as said, could be helped by buffing that build that it benifits them too and that they dont fall further behind).

(edited by Yashuoa.9527)

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Posted by: Shirlias.8104

Shirlias.8104

thieves doesn’t sem like they would have trouble with the new changes?

They buffed AA of some weapons, and reworked a bit acrobatic tree.
As thief, i think there’s no way i can drop Deadly Arts, Trickery or DareDevil.

We have to see, but i’m not sure about Acrobatic ( both DD and T are a must, and Deadly arts seems better than acrobatics ).

The fact is you take too much damage, and to deal your you must trade damage the most. That’s why having more healt pool will be only a buff for bunkers.

ps: going all out with zerk amulet is not the solution tbh ( im thinking more about guardians, revenants and engineers than thieves and mesmers, which could move glasscannon out of meta again, cause more damage and more sustain ).

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

thieves doesn’t sem like they would have trouble with the new changes?

They buffed AA of some weapons, and reworked a bit acrobatic tree.
As thief, i think there’s no way i can drop Deadly Arts, Trickery or DareDevil.

We have to see, but i’m not sure about Acrobatic ( both DD and T are a must, and Deadly arts seems better than acrobatics ).

The fact is you take too much damage, and to deal your you must trade damage the most. That’s why having more healt pool will be only a buff for bunkers.

ps: going all out with zerk amulet is not the solution tbh ( im thinking more about guardians, revenants and engineers than thieves and mesmers, which could move glasscannon out of meta again, cause more damage and more sustain ).

Not every bunker would go for an amulet with vit, with the 560 vit increase to everyone in pvp. Especially with the removal of Celestial amulet, they will go for other stats at the cost of vit, when there would be a increased vit baseline.
So bunkers wont have more vit than now perse.

Not only bunkers will benifit from the extra vit baseline
and
as said, those builds for who the vit change is to much of a disadvantage, could be buffed to even it out.

(edited by Yashuoa.9527)

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Posted by: Sunshine.5014

Sunshine.5014

If your base HP is 11k, and another class can do more than 11k in less than a second, you’re basically toasted.

That’s why Ele were forced to Cele. There were too many class that can deal a 10k burst, making them inviable.

We really should have standard HP for everyone at 19k.

Gray out the HP for future condition damage
Already quit PvP. Just log in here and there to troll.

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

powercreep questionmark

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

If your base HP is 11k, and another class can do more than 11k in less than a second, you’re basically toasted.

That’s why Ele were forced to Cele. There were too many class that can deal a 10k burst, making them inviable.

We really should have standard HP for everyone at 19k.

There are more classes besides ele with to low base hp.

I do think that there should be a difference between classes in hp.
Warrior should have more than ele for example.
Therefore I suggested to increase the hp for everyone by 560vit.

Some classes who have enough vit with that change, wont go for extra vit, but they go for other stats that they need, like more offensive stats.
Others who needed a lot of different stats (like Celestial gave), will also go for other stats than vit (if vit increase is done), like healing power for example.

People can go for more vit than you minimally need, but that comes at the cost of other stats. Less offensive stats for example or
those who used celestial amulet that gets removed (often bunkers) will probably not go for extra vit. They will try to use this chance to get other stats that they need.
If they dont, than they will have extra vit but that comes at a cost as well.

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Posted by: Sunshine.5014

Sunshine.5014

If your base HP is 11k, and another class can do more than 11k in less than a second, you’re basically toasted.

That’s why Ele were forced to Cele. There were too many class that can deal a 10k burst, making them inviable.

We really should have standard HP for everyone at 19k.

There are more classes besides ele with to low base hp.

I do think that there should be a difference between classes in hp.
Warrior should have more than ele for example.
Therefore I suggested to increase the hp for everyone by 560vit.

Some classes who have enough vit with that change, wont go for extra vit, but they go for other stats that they need, like more offensive stats.
Others who needed a lot of different stats (like Celestial gave), will also go for other stats than vit (if vit increase is done), like healing power for example.

People can go for more vit than you minimally need, but that comes at the cost of other stats. Less offensive stats for example or
those who used celestial amulet that gets removed (often bunkers) will probably not go for extra vit. They will try to use this chance to get other stats that they need.
If they dont, than they will have extra vit but that comes at a cost as well.

Heavy Armor already has 300 more stats than a light armor. Which means a Warrior has 300 extra stats than an Ele. Now the HP different is another 500 stats.

If you keep the disparity in stats, then you have to buff Ele so much for it to be balanced (for example, gives it Celestial Amulet).

We should just standardize the HP, and allow the 300 stats difference for armor.

Gray out the HP for future condition damage
Already quit PvP. Just log in here and there to troll.

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

If your base HP is 11k, and another class can do more than 11k in less than a second, you’re basically toasted.

That’s why Ele were forced to Cele. There were too many class that can deal a 10k burst, making them inviable.

We really should have standard HP for everyone at 19k.

There are more classes besides ele with to low base hp.

I do think that there should be a difference between classes in hp.
Warrior should have more than ele for example.
Therefore I suggested to increase the hp for everyone by 560vit.

Some classes who have enough vit with that change, wont go for extra vit, but they go for other stats that they need, like more offensive stats.
Others who needed a lot of different stats (like Celestial gave), will also go for other stats than vit (if vit increase is done), like healing power for example.

People can go for more vit than you minimally need, but that comes at the cost of other stats. Less offensive stats for example or
those who used celestial amulet that gets removed (often bunkers) will probably not go for extra vit. They will try to use this chance to get other stats that they need.
If they dont, than they will have extra vit but that comes at a cost as well.

Heavy Armor already has 300 more stats than a light armor. Which means a Warrior has 300 extra stats than an Ele. Now the HP different is another 500 stats.

If you keep the disparity in stats, then you have to buff Ele so much for it to be balanced (for example, gives it Celestial Amulet).

We should just standardize the HP, and allow the 300 stats difference for armor.

Ele will get the 560 vit as well. Everyone will.
So there wont be more difference between warrior and ele hp than before this change.

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Posted by: lloydst.6985

lloydst.6985

If they would consider it i suggest leaving necro out (cus the 2 health bars+ they are very likely to become more common)

roaming/havoc commander of FTF

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

Eles are probably the only class that might need that extra HP added to their base. Let’s just wait and see what happens.

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

Eles are probably the only class that might need that extra HP added to their base. Let’s just wait and see what happens.

Not completely true.

Guardian and Thief have about just as much basehealth as Ele (Ele just below 12k, Guardian just over 12k and Thief just below 13k).
Increasing base health wouldnt force these classes into vit amulets and it would also open up more choices for all classes in general.
To a lesser extend ranger with 15.9k could need some more vit and the rest have 17k or more.

Therefore a 560 vit increase to everyone seems right to me.

(edited by Yashuoa.9527)

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Posted by: blarghhrrkblah.3412

blarghhrrkblah.3412

Guardian and Thief have about just as much basehealth as Ele (Ele just below 12k, Guardian just over 12k and Thief just below 13k).

Just a small correction…all three of these classes have the same base hp of around 11.6k.

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Posted by: Ohoni.6057

Ohoni.6057

I do like the idea of increasing base HP while reducing the existing methods to boost HP. I never noticed it with my Guard, but with my Necro I’m prone to completely exploding before I can do anything about it.

“If you spent as much time working on [some task] as
you spend complaining about it on the forums, you’d be
done by now.”

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

Guardian and Thief have about just as much basehealth as Ele (Ele just below 12k, Guardian just over 12k and Thief just below 13k).

Just a small correction…all three of these classes have the same base hp of around 11.6k.

Hmm odd. Dont know why it showed the slight differences for me than.
I made sure that they didnt have vit on their rune and amulet when checking and by my knowledge, they didnt have any vit increases from other methods either.

(edited by Yashuoa.9527)

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Posted by: SlayerSixx.5763

SlayerSixx.5763

Eles are probably the only class that might need that extra HP added to their base. Let’s just wait and see what happens.

Not completely true.

Guardian and Thief have about just as much basehealth as Ele (Ele just below 12k, Guardian just over 12k and Thief just below 13k).
Increasing base health wouldnt force these classes into vit amulets and it would also open up more choices for all classes in general.
To a lesser extend ranger with 15.9k could need some more vit and the rest have 17k or more.

Therefore a 560 vit increase to everyone seems right to me.

Guardian has a ton of ways to directly mitigate damage. Thief has a ton of mobility and stealth. Once bunkers die and power burst is made meaningful, I’m certain these two classes can choose to run zerk (might not be optimal for guard, though) and preform quite nicely assuming the player can use their class’ kit effectively.

Elementalists, on the other hand, only have tons of sustain to live off of. Their direct damage mitigation skills come with either dumb downsides or incredibly long CDs. For elementalists to reliably do damage, they’d have to go with zerk or marauder, but (as we’ve seen with warrior) HP + sustain and no damage mitigation = ded.

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

Also the following amulets would be welcome:

Amulet 1.
Power.
Healing power.
Precision.
and something else except vit or no 4th stat.

and

Amulet 2.
Condition dmg.
Healing power.
A 3rd stat that is no vit or precision.
A 4th that is no vit or precision (or just only 3 stats).

(edited by Yashuoa.9527)

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Posted by: zapv.8051

zapv.8051

Eles need to go up in base vitality, thieves probably could too. Otherwise everything is fine.

Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.

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Posted by: Flumek.9043

Flumek.9043

Eles need to go up in base vitality, thieves probably could too. Otherwise everything is fine.

My opinion is absolutely NOT.

But thats just an opinion of a necro, whose almighty 20k hp punching bag pool doesnt feel worth the non existent defensive cooldowns.

Basically,
every broken build so far,
was OP because of traits, not cz it had 3k and 200 armor more,
its them having 1-2 extra get out of jail cards (lyssa stability, ports, low CD invulns for example…)

PvP guild [YUM] -apply- (EU) http://muffinspvp.shivtr.com/

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Posted by: Sarrs.4831

Sarrs.4831

Also the following amulets would be welcome:

Amulet 1.
Power.
Healing power.
Precision.
and something else except vit or no 4th stat.

and

Amulet 2.
Condition dmg.
Healing power.
A 3rd stat that is no vit or precision.
A 4th that is no vit or precision (or just only 3 stats).

Why the vitality phobia?

Nalhadia – Kaineng

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Posted by: zapv.8051

zapv.8051

Eles need to go up in base vitality, thieves probably could too. Otherwise everything is fine.

My opinion is absolutely NOT.

But thats just an opinion of a necro, whose almighty 20k hp punching bag pool doesnt feel worth the non existent defensive cooldowns.

Basically,
every broken build so far,
was OP because of traits, not cz it had 3k and 200 armor more,
its them having 1-2 extra get out of jail cards (lyssa stability, ports, low CD invulns for example…)

Necro’s focus fire problems would not be solved by giving them more HP. It would come from active defenses.

Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.

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Posted by: Rym.1469

Rym.1469

If your base HP is 11k, and another class can do more than 11k in less than a second, you’re basically toasted.

That’s why Ele were forced to Cele. There were too many class that can deal a 10k burst, making them inviable.

We really should have standard HP for everyone at 19k.

There are more classes besides ele with to low base hp.

I do think that there should be a difference between classes in hp.
Warrior should have more than ele for example.
Therefore I suggested to increase the hp for everyone by 560vit.

Some classes who have enough vit with that change, wont go for extra vit, but they go for other stats that they need, like more offensive stats.
Others who needed a lot of different stats (like Celestial gave), will also go for other stats than vit (if vit increase is done), like healing power for example.

People can go for more vit than you minimally need, but that comes at the cost of other stats. Less offensive stats for example or
those who used celestial amulet that gets removed (often bunkers) will probably not go for extra vit. They will try to use this chance to get other stats that they need.
If they dont, than they will have extra vit but that comes at a cost as well.

Heavy Armor already has 300 more stats than a light armor. Which means a Warrior has 300 extra stats than an Ele. Now the HP different is another 500 stats.

If you keep the disparity in stats, then you have to buff Ele so much for it to be balanced (for example, gives it Celestial Amulet).

We should just standardize the HP, and allow the 300 stats difference for armor.

Warrior also doesn’t have permanent protection, has to stick in melee and posseses no phleora of boons, heals and other active defenses.

Normalizing health is ridiculously bad idea, buffing everyone with same amount as OP suggested isn’t that bad.

If they would consider it i suggest leaving necro out (cus the 2 health bars+ they are very likely to become more common)

I’m not gonna jump into another “2nd healthbar” discussion and throw arguments at wall, but why would you leave out only necro? Warrior has 19k base healthpool as well.

[rude]Antagonistka – Revenant, EU.
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(edited by Rym.1469)

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Posted by: Kicker.8203

Kicker.8203

Yep I think thieves and eles should get a buffed to medium health. Always having to take vitality amulets limits your choices a LOT. Maybe decrease damage a bit to make up for it.

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Posted by: Yashuoa.9527

Yashuoa.9527

Also the following amulets would be welcome:

Amulet 1.
Power.
Healing power.
Precision.
and something else except vit or no 4th stat.

and

Amulet 2.
Condition dmg.
Healing power.
A 3rd stat that is no vit or precision.
A 4th that is no vit or precision (or just only 3 stats).

Why the vitality phobia?

Its not vitality phobia.

If I had vitality phobia, than why would I ask for 560 more vit in pvp to everyone baseline? :P

Also that vit change in mind, a few amulets like the above would be welcome.
Because you would have the minimal required vit baseline, so you have the option to look for other stats that you need.

And those few who dont need vit on their amulet or baseline to have the minimum of that that they need, can also benifit from these new amulets.

Always having to take vitality amulets limits your choices a LOT.

Indeed.

Especially if you need many different stats, which you cant get anymore due to Celestial removal.
This baseline vit change + other amulet, will generally not be the same as Celestial though, but it does give some proper options for those who used celestial and those who are bound to vit amulets for other reasons.

(edited by Yashuoa.9527)

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Posted by: Gallant Pigeon.5807

Gallant Pigeon.5807

The extra vitality would benefit guardian / ele / thief the most since they would see the greatest % increase in HP. 560 might be a bit extreme tho. Maybe something like 360.

The problem with the 11.6k base HP it means you can be near insta wiped by even tanky builds post HoT. The zerker trinket offers only around 10-15% more dps over marauders at the expense of dropping 30% of your HP.