Guild Wars 2

Warlord.9074:

You can’t easily kill a druid or ranger pet, and they can just swap pets without impunity. So your only strategy in defeating rangers is to ignore the pet.

This is the whole problem. A fix would be any damage, condition, cc a ranger takes always effects the pet.

If a ranger is feared so is the pet and I am talking about baseline.

This is actually the level of stupidness amongst the people QQing about pets.

Ehecatl.9172:

Evilek.5690:

Ehecatl.9172:

The HP of our pets is cut in half in SPVP so they aren’t too tanky.

Take your Bristleback into Heart of the Mists. It will have 16,243 HP. At least with the buff from Beastmastery. Less without.

Ofc same armor like bunker Guardian and more HP and DPS in s PvP GJ =)

There is DPS test

1 – Bristle DPS only – 1300/1620 DPS
2 – Bunker Guardian with Staff – Cleric amulet – 860/920 DPS/Spike DPS
3 – Bunker Guardian with GS – Cleric amulet – 1280/1320 DPS

Guardian Armor 3242 and 12895 HP
Bristle Toughness without Armor stats 3348 and 16243 Hp !!!

This is balance !

I think you missed the part where the bristleback can’t dodge or use any defensive skills at all. It can’t even remove conditions from itself. Want to kill the pet? Drop a condi bomb on it. The ranger basically has to switch out or it goes on a 60 second cooldown.

There is more to survival than numbers.

But of course that’s inconvenient to the point you’re trying to make.

Kill pet ? This is joke right ? This works maybe when is Ranger afk and you fight only vs ranger pet. And even if you managed to accidentally drop pet HP on 10%, ranger click F4 without penalty every 15 sec.

Ehecatl.9172:

I think you missed the part where the bristleback can’t dodge or use any defensive skills at all. It can’t even remove conditions from itself. Want to kill the pet? Drop a condi bomb on it. The ranger basically has to switch out or it goes on a 60 second cooldown.

There is more to survival than numbers.

But of course that’s inconvenient to the point you’re trying to make.

So on top of OP damage output, the pet can force redirected condi bombs on a 15 sec cooldown that would otherwise hit the ranger. Got it. Totally balanced.

Evilek.5690:

And even if you managed to accidentally kill pet, ranger click F4 without penalty every 15 sec.

There are actually people in this thread that doesn’t know about the cooldown penalty to pet swap when a pet is downed.

And that’s the kind of awareness amongst the QQers.

Evilek.5690:

Kill pet ? This is joke right ? This works maybe when is Ranger afk and you fight only vs ranger pet. And even if you managed to accidentally kill pet, ranger click F4 without penalty every 15 sec.

Actually that last part isn’t true. If the first pet goes down and they hit F4 they can’t swap to that pet again for a full minute. In that regard it isn’t a true 15 second cooldown.

Why do you think rangers have always struggled being meta? It’s because our pets melt under pressure, and team fights have so much AoE being thrown around that our pets can barely survive. Rangers have always been an exceptional 1v1 profession, but our pets prevent us from being effective in team fights. Druid didn’t really change that, but it did give us a presence in team fights thanks to our healing.

Unfortunately druid also doesn’t have many ways to deal with heavy control and melt under pressure, making them a less effective bunker than tempest or chronomancer. It only takes two decently coordinated players to blow a druid out of the water. Shoot, a good chronomancer can do it solo.

The ranger and his pet are designed in a way that they are supposed to protect each other and account for each others weaknesses.

A ranger with low control can take pets that fulfill that role (canines and spiders).

A ranger with low sustain can bring a pet to take agro for it (only works in PvE)

A ranger with low damage can bring a pet to fulfill that role (what we have right now with druids).

Rangers are balanced around that. Hell they are designed around it.

What that means is that any change that affects the pet affects the ranger and all possible combinations he could make with it. This isn’t like lowering burn duration on a skill because it was over performing. Any change to a pet affects EVERY possible ranger build that could have used that pet.

Breaking the birstleback (not im saying BREAKING not nerfing…I am fully for having its f2 FIXED to fire the right number of projectiles NOT for massively reducing the damage the skill is supposed to do) hurts more than the druid. You also hurt the non druid rangers as well.

Balance the synergy sure. But that doesn’t mean hit the pet with an axe because of what ONE build archetype can do with it.

And if all else fails. Fight near a tempest…im not even joking. If that tempest is even SLIGHTLY competent hes going to completely negate the bristlebacks damage. That class has so much projectile hate its funny. Hell the tempest pretty much single handedly killed the rangers power build by making it nonexistent in any team fight.

Kayberz.5346:

Hmm lets see, whats a more reasonable approach, rework about 30-40 different pets OR rework just 2?

What is more reasonable, fix broken things, or break things because you don’t want be bothered with fixing others and would rather broken be the standard?

Cynz.9437:

they only classes that can ignore pets is bunkers and they won’t exist after patch~

You don’t play much sPvP, do you?

MarauderShields.6830:

So can I have my 15k backstabs back, then?

Based on balance previevs, you will, most likely. Thief dagger and sword attacks are supposed to get upgraded, as well as that class damage in general.

Ehecatl.9172:

1 – Bristle DPS only – 1300/1620 DPS

Against a stationary target that doesn’t move, with a careful prepositioning, maybe. In a normal game? No way – you’d be lucky if only half of those attacks miss. To have any reliable chance of hitting, you need to cc/daze the target, and swap to bristle just before f2. Otherwise it may fire the whole attack in a different plane, through some obstacle, or from beyond the attack range. All of those are likely to result in an attack completely wasted. Additionally, if you do it midfight, it is likely to attack with a 2-3 seconds delay after you pressed the button (which most probably will result in one of the problems mentioned earlier) or just fail to activate the attack at all. In short, that dps is pure fiction.

Bristleback has the same Power as wolfs, wyverns, drakes 2018,

Burtnik.5218:

Hammerguard.9834:

So now we’re comparing a single skill to an entire profession mechanic? And lets just pretend 15k is a thing.

Brilliant. You win thread.

Didnt know profession mechanic is supposed to 1 hit people.

Hey Anet, equilibrium is underpowered, i cant one shot people with legend swap. Please buff kthxbye

LOL This guy made my day hahahahaha legend swap xD

Speculation: With quickness not working on rezzes/stomps in the coming patch, fewer rangers will take zephyr’s speed (?). Bristleback f2 won’t be so fierce then.

shrug

It is really funny how rangers protect dat broken pet with phrases like “you want to destroy our only damaging pet” while still sitting with cele amulets (or what is going to substitude it after the “balance” patch).

Bristleback damage should be cuted significantly. If you want to provide high damage – switch to berserk/marauder like everyone else is forced to.

Burtnik.5218:

The first thing im gonna do is hop on ranger notes and see if anything was done to the pet.. if yes then i will hop one hour later to taste delicious tears of rangers that cannot be carried by pets anymore.

Wow. This coming from a rev main. You do understand that bristleback is the only thing going for rangers. Remove that and you got a build/class thats not going to be taken anywhere.
Honestly l2p you can kitten druids on a condi rev and yet you stand here demanding rangers to be trash tier. Unreal. What is rangers sustain any good without pet dmg?
Besides come the removal of celestial its only gonna get worse. I run a crusader druid build. Toughness healing power and if i dont play at my best im gonna get rekt by anything. Seriously l2p scrub. All i have to say to you.

Folks there is no arguing with these people. They want their cake and they want it now.
And remember if this whining makes ranger trash tier again these people are just going to forget that ranger exists and move on.

fumcheg.1936:

It is really funny how rangers protect dat broken pet with phrases like “you want to destroy our only damaging pet” while still sitting with cele amulets (or what is going to substitude it after the “balance” patch).

Bristleback damage should be cuted significantly. If you want to provide high damage – switch to berserk/marauder like everyone else is forced to.

Forced to. Yeah don´t mention the sustain that many classes have even with zerker amulet.

ANet at least now you know that adding a bristleback profession in the next expansion is a perfectly correct thing to do, I mean looking at numbers only that thing outdmges my zerker warr from range and also happens to be tankier because lel 2.8k toughness.

Quintoozla.7893:

You do understand that bristleback is the only thing going for rangers. Remove that and you got a build/class thats not going to be taken anywhere.

What do you think about fixing Bristle dmg and buffing ranger on another way? Smth that doesnt promote bunker druids doing most of their dmg through their pet

Quintoozla.7893:

fumcheg.1936:

It is really funny how rangers protect dat broken pet with phrases like “you want to destroy our only damaging pet” while still sitting with cele amulets (or what is going to substitude it after the “balance” patch).

Bristleback damage should be cuted significantly. If you want to provide high damage – switch to berserk/marauder like everyone else is forced to.

Forced to. Yeah don´t mention the sustain that many classes have even with zerker amulet.

Donno what sustain you are talking about. The only oversustained dps class now is scrapper, wich I believe will be nerfed eventually, and revenant, which is broken as well (can’t do any predictions about it).
Every class is sacrificing its defensive stats to provide high dps except rangers.

I don’t mind against current Bristleback damage but not while his owner is a bunker.

Krysard.1364:

MyPuppy.8970:

Krysard.1364:

MyPuppy.8970:

Don’t those things melt faster with conditions?

Edit: I’d like pets/clones/minions count as kills on on-kill sigils.

Then ppl should rally by killing them :p

I think it happened with clones for a moment, a while ago. I like that idea though. Well maybe not for clones since they’re so squishy, but what about Necro/Ranger pets?

The idea makes sense, but there are a few problems:

1.Pets dont have downstate, which make it easier to kill them than a fellow player
2.Pets dont have the same deffensive mechanics/hp pool as a normal player, which make it easier to kill them too
3.Ranger hasnt the same control over himself than over the pet. This means that he cannot decied when the pet uses some skills, nor the positioning, which makes them easier to focus fire and so kill them.

Your number 2 is partially wrong some like the Bristleback have higher base Health than thieves, eles and guards.

Krysard.1364:

Quintoozla.7893:

You do understand that bristleback is the only thing going for rangers. Remove that and you got a build/class thats not going to be taken anywhere.

What do you think about fixing Bristle dmg and buffing ranger on another way? Smth that doesnt promote bunker druids doing most of their dmg through their pet

As i have said in this thread. Fix the number of spikes it shoots to what its supposed to. There 25% dmg shaved off. Imho whatever way you buff druids people are going to whine.

Quintoozla.7893:

Burtnik.5218:

The first thing im gonna do is hop on ranger notes and see if anything was done to the pet.. if yes then i will hop one hour later to taste delicious tears of rangers that cannot be carried by pets anymore.

Wow. This coming from a rev main. You do understand that bristleback is the only thing going for rangers. Remove that and you got a build/class thats not going to be taken anywhere.
Honestly l2p you can kitten druids on a condi rev and yet you stand here demanding rangers to be trash tier. Unreal. What is rangers sustain any good without pet dmg?
Besides come the removal of celestial its only gonna get worse. I run a crusader druid build. Toughness healing power and if i dont play at my best im gonna get rekt by anything. Seriously l2p scrub. All i have to say to you.

Folks there is no arguing with these people. They want their cake and they want it now.
And remember if this whining makes ranger trash tier again these people are just going to forget that ranger exists and move on.

^obvious ranger main

Your so rediculously biased its not even funny, your just screaming at everyone that says bristleback is overtuned and telling them to l2p, if bristleback is the only thing letting you win maybe YOU should l2p.

You say that bristleback is the only thing rangers have going for them, ok lets break down that statement, so your saying that a pet class with access to like 40 different pets has to rely on just 1 particular pet and you dont see that as a potential balance issue?
People dont want rangers to be trash tier and they arnt just trying to make pets ignorable, we want BALANCE, your viability shouldnt rely on running only 1 pet when there are like 40 others to choose from and your pet shouldnt be able to hit harder than a warriors hundred blades from 1500 range without investing any stats into offense

Quintoozla.7893:

Krysard.1364:

Quintoozla.7893:

You do understand that bristleback is the only thing going for rangers. Remove that and you got a build/class thats not going to be taken anywhere.

What do you think about fixing Bristle dmg and buffing ranger on another way? Smth that doesnt promote bunker druids doing most of their dmg through their pet

As i have said in this thread. Fix the number of spikes it shoots to what its supposed to. There 25% dmg shaved off. Imho whatever way you buff druids people are going to whine.

Thats why I said “fixing”, not nerfing, I know its bugged :p

Kayberz.5346:

Quintoozla.7893:

Burtnik.5218:

The first thing im gonna do is hop on ranger notes and see if anything was done to the pet.. if yes then i will hop one hour later to taste delicious tears of rangers that cannot be carried by pets anymore.

Wow. This coming from a rev main. You do understand that bristleback is the only thing going for rangers. Remove that and you got a build/class thats not going to be taken anywhere.
Honestly l2p you can kitten druids on a condi rev and yet you stand here demanding rangers to be trash tier. Unreal. What is rangers sustain any good without pet dmg?
Besides come the removal of celestial its only gonna get worse. I run a crusader druid build. Toughness healing power and if i dont play at my best im gonna get rekt by anything. Seriously l2p scrub. All i have to say to you.

Folks there is no arguing with these people. They want their cake and they want it now.
And remember if this whining makes ranger trash tier again these people are just going to forget that ranger exists and move on.

^obvious ranger main

Your so rediculously biased its not even funny, your just screaming at everyone that says bristleback is overtuned and telling them to l2p, if bristleback is the only thing letting you win maybe YOU should l2p.

You say that bristleback is the only thing rangers have going for them, ok lets break down that statement, so your saying that a pet class with access to like 40 different pets has to rely on just 1 particular pet and you dont see that as a potential balance issue?
People dont want rangers to be trash tier and they arnt just trying to make pets ignorable, we want BALANCE, your viability shouldnt rely on running only 1 pet when there are like 40 others to choose from and your pet shouldnt be able to hit harder than a warriors hundred blades from 1500 range without investing any stats into offense

Well something that might not be obvious but our pets are the reason Maul doesn’t have a gravedigger damage modifier.

fumcheg.1936:

Quintoozla.7893:

fumcheg.1936:

It is really funny how rangers protect dat broken pet with phrases like “you want to destroy our only damaging pet” while still sitting with cele amulets (or what is going to substitude it after the “balance” patch).

Bristleback damage should be cuted significantly. If you want to provide high damage – switch to berserk/marauder like everyone else is forced to.

Forced to. Yeah don´t mention the sustain that many classes have even with zerker amulet.

Donno what sustain you are talking about. The only oversustained dps class now is scrapper, wich I believe will be nerfed eventually, and revenant, which is broken as well (can’t do any predictions about it).
Every class is sacrificing its defensive stats to provide high dps except rangers.

I don’t mind against current Bristleback damage but not while his owner is a bunker.

So the idea that you throw condis on the druid after CAF is unknown to you? And no every class isnt sacrificing defensive stats to provide high dps. Herald/Scrapper as you said it yourself. It is all arguable. Even DHs have good sustain if they play it right.
In what sense is druid a bunker. 2v1 kills it. You can kill it even in a 1v1 with certain classes/builds. Dies to focus fire pretty easily.
In my books its just a good side node contester. Good at 1v1s if played right.
And as i already said take celestial away and what have you got. Ever tried crusader amulet on a druid? 3k toughness decent healing power and you have to run for your life if you get +1ed.
I am beginning to understand where all the whining comes. Ive seen it in ranked too much. You go close. Druid comes. You ping. Noone comes. You end in a stalemate. Or you kill it if he is below decent. Or you get killed because you ignored the pet.
I wish i could ignore other classes class mechanics too. What mesmer shatters? Why should i even dodge them. What that DH has me tethered? Why should i even pay attention to it. What? The necro popped shroud? Why cant i kill him in 2 hits he was at 2k hp.
Im done with this thread. Nerf away.

fumcheg.1936:

It is really funny how rangers protect dat broken pet with phrases like “you want to destroy our only damaging pet” while still sitting with cele amulets (or what is going to substitude it after the “balance” patch).

Bristleback damage should be cuted significantly. If you want to provide high damage – switch to berserk/marauder like everyone else is forced to.

The bristleback could have some damage shaved off and its bugs fixed, but that doesn’t change the fact that as long as this pet can reliably hit people (which it can compared to vanilla pets) coupled with the fact that rangers usually run Nature Magic and Beastmastery in this meta, the two most important specializations you’ll need for a pet centric build, and the fact that bristleback is designed to be a damaging pet, not an utility pet, this thing is always going to hit hard as long as the ranger keeps it buffed.

And for the record the ranger/druid doesn’t have high dps with pets, it has burst potential with pets. It is a kittening difference.

The funny thing about you asking people to move to marauder/berserk amulet if they want damage is that the ranger is one of the professions that by far benefit the least of running it. The ranger’s power coefficients are bad, the projectile hate nullifies the longbow in teamfights, the burst skills – mainly Maul – are among the most telegraphed and easily avoided burst skills in the game, and not to forget, the class mechanic doesn’t benefit anything from it.

Shadelang.3012:

The ranger and his pet are designed in a way that they are supposed to protect each other and account for each others weaknesses.

A ranger with low control can take pets that fulfill that role (canines and spiders).

A ranger with low sustain can bring a pet to take agro for it (only works in PvE)

A ranger with low damage can bring a pet to fulfill that role (what we have right now with druids).

Rangers are balanced around that. Hell they are designed around it.

What that means is that any change that affects the pet affects the ranger and all possible combinations he could make with it. This isn’t like lowering burn duration on a skill because it was over performing. Any change to a pet affects EVERY possible ranger build that could have used that pet.

Breaking the birstleback (not im saying BREAKING not nerfing…I am fully for having its f2 FIXED to fire the right number of projectiles NOT for massively reducing the damage the skill is supposed to do) hurts more than the druid. You also hurt the non druid rangers as well.

Balance the synergy sure. But that doesn’t mean hit the pet with an axe because of what ONE build archetype can do with it.

And if all else fails. Fight near a tempest…im not even joking. If that tempest is even SLIGHTLY competent hes going to completely negate the bristlebacks damage. That class has so much projectile hate its funny. Hell the tempest pretty much single handedly killed the rangers power build by making it nonexistent in any team fight.

I agree with most.The thing is,that the dmg is kitten high.It gets to insane levels,once you get all the side factors into it,like fully buffed pet “might/fury” on BM ranger versus a zerker whatever with vulnerability.So,ok,dude just buffed pet,invested one trait line into it and is ready to unleash the damage onto someone.Considering its a pet,not ranger himself,considering even the low CD and the almost non-existent visibility of the attack and its range.Its simply broken high.We aint talking about some 5-6k dmg vs zerk,but 15-20k!!.Pet aint siting idly waiting for the special to get trigered,it has its abilities and cycle,so it aint just one trick pony.Not even considering the trait abilities and buffs tied to pet swaps/special use.Even if it was on 1min CD,i wouldnt be ok with its dmg.

Before some clever guy starts with,we need to set-up,prepare and invest traits for that.But you have to understand,everyone has to do the same,yet noone will end with 15-20k dmg pet.There were some broken things in before,and there were always ppl defending em,so its understandable that many rangers come here and will claim all is fine,and that am just total noob/idiot or whatever ppl wrote in here.But not a single one changed my mind so far,and i hope some relevant person will see it from my point of view aswell.Am also not here demanding ranger nerfs,i myself am playing ranger regulary “got over 600 hours played so far”.DMG nerf am talking about is only for pvp and only about bristleback special attack.