Guild Wars 2

Enough said. The top end burst is too high, and the sustain is too low.

I agree. If sustain is increased then the burst must go down. It wouldn’t be fine if ele were immortal death machines.

As an ele main; I agree, but in turn to increasing sustain to being made viable, the sustained damage must also go up, specially staff, and scepeter where the vast majority of the skills are unreliable, such as dragon tooth or any of the 18/20 AoE skills in staff.

I agree. Buff ele sustain, buff their sustained damage (autoattacks that were useful for something other than proccing fresh air would be a start), and nerf their instant burst.

I think unless evades get nerfed hardcore, ele does need buffs to it’s non-burst attacks which right now are exceedingly lack luster (such as Air Scepter #1)

Although I don’t really play ele, it seems like 90% of their damage comes from unreliable AoE abilities

How is an ele supposed to beat a thief who can literally perma evade for the entire time the ele is in fire attunement?

eh. Warriors lost around 30% of their total damage across the board since healing signet was buffed and people are still complaining about them.

After you get the next survivability buffs you will be in a great to OP state for the next few months. Hopefully eles wont get the same hate and crap we warriors have been putting with for months now.

They don’t even have spammable burst like a thief lol. If I were to approve this I would think their HP would need to be raised quite a bit

ele /age 1200
483 tournaments @ ele
no. I don’t want to nerf my burst damage. it’s mine, all mine.
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/39188331.jpg

I agree, but burst shouldn’t be just nerfed in numbers. Instead typical fresh air combo should be nerfed in indicirect way, by destroying instant untelegraphed air-arcane sequence.

Fresh air ele needs a way to counter thief, that’s pretty much it. Warrior and necro are fairly broken vs burst builds in general at the moment.

This game needs more skill cap builds, not less. D/D can provide higher sustain damage if that’s your bag, and it’s something that will be improved substantially in the next patch..

If you nerf ele dmg and buff the sustain it will be totally useless because than just use a warrior – only thing ele is good at right now is the burst – if you take it away and give more sustain ele is just a worse warrior

infantrydiv.1620:

How is an ele supposed to beat a thief who can literally perma evade for the entire time the ele is in fire attunement?

They don’t.

In any case it’s impossible to kill thieves in 1v1. Any half-decent thief will just stealth away if the fight isn’t going in their favor.

Agree with the first part, but their burst is reliant on using all three utility skills at the same time as well as a kitten cd knockdown and doesnt really do more burst than a lot of other classes can do in the same gear even though those other classes use less abilities to do that burst. How is that OP

High Burst? You’re kidding.

You’re talking about a single proc, skill set… so your thought is to nerf their burst damage across the board…

ele is fine, high damage = low survability.

nerf thief’s evade.
nerf warriors.
nerf ai build,spirit ranger,mm.
nerf condispam.
lower some stupid long cooldown like arcane shield,mist form and armor of earth.

puff,ele in meta.

Insanity.5174:

ele is fine, high damage = low survability.

nerf thief’s evade.
nerf warriors.
nerf ai build,spirit ranger,mm.
nerf condispam.
lower some stupid long cooldown like arcane shield,mist form and armor of earth.

puff,ele in meta.

That would be nice, but your method requires too much effort and will lead to more trouble. What the elementalist needs is another form of active defense, the thieves have their evades, and stealth. Necro have high large HP.

Dwaynas Avatar.1562:

If you nerf ele dmg and buff the sustain it will be totally useless because than just use a warrior – only thing ele is good at right now is the burst – if you take it away and give more sustain ele is just a worse warrior

I like the idea of buffing sustain, increasing sustained damage, and nerfing burst damage.

I am sorry i personally think the high end dps is completely acceptable considering the minimum survivability of the build. And you guys seem to forget that if the elementalist doesn’t run arcane skills then their burst is only as good as a thiefs and without the sustain. And the reason why an elementalist runs with lightning flash and arcane skills is because they are the only really useful thing to them currently as everything else has a ridiculously long recharge time it is just not worth bothering with.

If their defensive utilities were worth bothering with then you would probably be able to stay up long enough to get a second bout of dps on top of an enemy. But yes overall i think elementalists are currently the most broken class and unlike the necro (talking about dhumfire) you could not fix them by giving them more dps. they need more sustain on their dps builds. That is another thing there are not really enough viable builds for elementalists. And they STILL go up into the arcana tree even though you attempted to take them out of it. Why is that you ask? because they get a tiny heal on dodge roll, its not for the attuenement recharge. They do not need a nerf they need some defense. A hammer warrior ( yes its a tad broken in places) for example get to place all defensive utilities because their damage is there to begin with. Elementalists don’t get that so they have to compensate for their overall lack of damage by taking their arcane blast and arcane wave.

I am rambling a bit i know but really i think it is a tad wrong that the weakest class in the game gets an invulnerability skill thats only real use is for stomping why can’t i be immune to damage and still dish 100% of it out at the same time? not to mention if i do stomp someone with it i have to wait 75 seconds to use it again before i can safely stomp someone without them dpsing me down in the downed state. it used to be the case where elementalists had a very good damage to survivability trade off and that has been severely broken in recent patches and i have my suspicions that it is due to other class buffs and not just eles nerfs. Delete warriors and the game is balanced overnight ( joke… -ish)

But yes i agree overall that if you you increase their sustain you will have to change that burst but only if their overall survivability improves as a result.

Didn’t even knew they had burst damage guess they die too fast for me to find out.

Insanity.5174:

ele is fine, high damage = low survability.

nerf thief’s evade.
nerf warriors.
nerf ai build,spirit ranger,mm.
nerf condispam.
lower some stupid long cooldown like arcane shield,mist form and armor of earth.

puff,ele in meta.

Yes.

Exactly.

Ele is actually fine because if you go damage you lose survivability. The problem is EVERY other class is brokenly OP. They power creeped this game into failure. The only way ele is going to be viable compared to thief is if ele is JUST AS BROKEN in which case it will just destroy everyone.

They have to start nerfing hard and fast. We said that for ages. We told them power creep ruined the game. Top players who quit told them this (like helseth and many many many others). They didn’t listen and instead just give us more and more power creep. It is insane at this point. Everything needs to be dialed back significantly. They should do a couple of patches where all they do is nerf stuff. Not buff anything. And then go from there.

Sheppy.9306:

But yes i agree overall that if you you increase their sustain you will have to change that burst but only if their overall survivability improves as a result.

Yes, this is the idea… Better survivability, but lower burst.

OneManArmy.9732:

ele /age 1200
483 tournaments @ ele
no. I don’t want to nerf my burst damage. it’s mine, all mine.
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/39188331.jpg

Someone had to do it.

It’s my precious.. not my pleasure.

Buff sustain and nerf burst? How about NO..
Jesus christ..burst is fine as it is now and it shouldnt change apart from adding a bit delay to lighting strike and arcanes. What do you wantEver class to be warrior running around mashing buttons while healing for insane amounts?
No thx pls. Go play other games and see how even harder actual burst can hit..and games were there isnt such thing like dodging or the millions escapes most classes have. Nobody complains there..you know why? Cause range and position are being respected,the survivability has to given up for the burst and there isnt this absurd reset possibility like in this game.
Not to mention that if air burst stopped being instant tommorow ,even warrior level of sustain wouldnt be enough to save burst eles against thieves..no joking :P

I think he means sustained damage, not sustain as in healing and survivablity?
mibht be wrong

Vuh.1328:

I think he means sustained damage, not sustain as in healing and survivablity?
mibht be wrong

Ah really? :O
But he said top end burst is too much and sustain too low .Fresh air s/x or d/d sustain damage isnt low me thinks..
kitten now im confused..

Sustain boost
Arcane shield now 15 sec cd
Sig of Resto now heals 200 per cast 20 sec cd
Mist form now 60 sec cd

good? bad?

I agree with some of you.
Instead of buffing classes, they should be nerfed.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Arcane shield now 15 sec cd

I am assuming this is a typo. If not, read up on what Arcane Shield does again.

No, more sustain yes, but do not remove their burst damage, which is highly dependent on a zerk build with power/crit spec without/almost no survivability.

And Arcane shield 15s cd, no for obvious reasons.

Peace

“Warriors lost around 30% of their total damage across the board since healing signet was buffed and people are still complaining about them.”

That made me laught pretty hard, playing warry as reroll, playing ele as main.

The first thing is, ELE needs to be full berserk ( build making, optimisation, gameplay ) and warrior just dont.
Running on warrior a 20/0/30/0/20 axe / X and bow ( 30 point in toughness branch so ) and still putting 12k evicerate on light armored, with 8 second CD but hey warrior damage as been so nerfed..

On the other hand, playin an DD ele in 0/30/10/0/30 : you can see from here that most of ele are running full berserk cause they dont really have the choice. So our burst is hight, yeah ! no as much a warrior with 1 touch, you (BTW ) can anihilate us with 1 touch again…. 1 touch.

But i wont be the bad guy and i ll say it, ele as a rly cool burst, not much than a thief or a warry, or a shatter mesmer : All of them can instant kill ele, how nice it is … playing all of these classes so i know how well our burst isnt that much better.

I ll just say one last thing : before thinking about nerf Ele burst, it would be nice to talk about their SURVABILITY, of course we have a huge burst, we also have the lowest HP PULL on guild wars and plus we re light armored, in that logic we NEED a huge burst if we want to be competitive against other classes…

“20/0/30/0/20 on warrior” MY BAD > its 20/0/20/0/30

Are you kidding? I can’t tell if you’re kidding. Why don’t you just play cantrip/ea.

Insanity.5174:

ele is fine, high damage = low survability.

nerf thief’s evade.
nerf warriors.
nerf ai build,spirit ranger,mm.
nerf condispam.
lower some stupid long cooldown like arcane shield,mist form and armor of earth.

puff,ele in meta.

This is what we all want. It’s hard to imagine all these changes happening though. More likely they try to bring ele up to the level of all of this stuff you just listed. It may not be the better change but it is the easier one especially with how powerful everything has gotten compared to ele.

Ele autoattacks need buffing anyways, especially water and earth attunement ones they’re terrible. Across all weapons.

It’s pathetic lightning hammer conjure is the only way for ele to deal high sustained damage comparable to a warrior or thief’s base weaponskill damage.

Also, raising ele to mesmer levels of HP will do a lot to open up viable builds for them as right now they can be 2 shot by warriors and thieves and mesmers in some builds that dont stack protection.

Some condi cleanse not tied to cantrips would also help.

Lower mist form/arcaneshield/armor of earth to 35 sec cd base. Ele shouldn’t need to go into evasive arcana and 20 points in water tree to live.

In turn nerf the easy self heal back to full of some ele specs the idea is that you would have access to mitigation, but no class, including the thief or warrior, should be able to constantly reset fights to disengage and heal so trivially.

If you are critically damaged for making mistakes, it should be really hard to recover.

They need to nerf the hardiness/hp reset of some bunkers, and bring down the burst/condi damage of some classes.

This game is an utter extreme of stacking on one or the other because quite frankly splitting between offense and defense as most classes will see you just as easily killed and unable to scratch others.

I think just a base HP boost (combined with upcoming buffs) will be enough to solve most, if not all of Ele’s problems. The step up from 10.8k to 15k hp…that extra 4.2k will make a ton of difference.

“I think just a base HP boost (combined with upcoming buffs) will be enough to solve most "

its the main thing i guess

Zenith.7301
Ele autoattacks need buffing anyways, especially water and earth attunement ones they’re terrible. Across all weapons.

Can’t totally agree, DD really have a cool sustain damage ( rly agressive earth and water stance ).
According to what you re saying : you are a Scepter player, which is a 900/600 ranged weapon and you’re expecting from that weapon to be at the same sustain lvl than a DD ? Do you think it is reasonable to have the sustain dps of a warrior while being at 900 range form your opponent ? I guess iam a bit extremist, i can clearly see what is your point, then allow me to ask something : what is the point in playin DD anymore ? if i have the same sustain on my Scepter, plus the actual burst..

Lordrosicky.5813:

Insanity.5174:

ele is fine, high damage = low survability.

nerf thief’s evade.
nerf warriors.
nerf ai build,spirit ranger,mm.
nerf condispam.
lower some stupid long cooldown like arcane shield,mist form and armor of earth.

puff,ele in meta.

Yes.

Exactly.

Ele is actually fine because if you go damage you lose survivability. The problem is EVERY other class is brokenly OP. They power creeped this game into failure. The only way ele is going to be viable compared to thief is if ele is JUST AS BROKEN in which case it will just destroy everyone.

They have to start nerfing hard and fast. We said that for ages. We told them power creep ruined the game. Top players who quit told them this (like helseth and many many many others). They didn’t listen and instead just give us more and more power creep. It is insane at this point. Everything needs to be dialed back significantly. They should do a couple of patches where all they do is nerf stuff. Not buff anything. And then go from there.

This is the result when the developers are completely out of touch with their own game mechanics. I feel the upcoming balance patch will not change this pattern. What we will probably end up with is the meta being the exact same as the current one.

Macmoarning.3208:

“Warriors lost around 30% of their total damage across the board since healing signet was buffed and people are still complaining about them.”

That made me laught pretty hard, playing warry as reroll, playing ele as main.

The first thing is, ELE needs to be full berserk ( build making, optimisation, gameplay ) and warrior just dont.
Running on warrior a 20/0/30/0/20 axe / X and bow ( 30 point in toughness branch so ) and still putting 12k evicerate on light armored, with 8 second CD but hey warrior damage as been so nerfed..

On the other hand, playin an DD ele in 0/30/10/0/30 : you can see from here that most of ele are running full berserk cause they dont really have the choice. So our burst is hight, yeah ! no as much a warrior with 1 touch, you (BTW ) can anihilate us with 1 touch again…. 1 touch.

But i wont be the bad guy and i ll say it, ele as a rly cool burst, not much than a thief or a warry, or a shatter mesmer : All of them can instant kill ele, how nice it is … playing all of these classes so i know how well our burst isnt that much better.

I ll just say one last thing : before thinking about nerf Ele burst, it would be nice to talk about their SURVABILITY, of course we have a huge burst, we also have the lowest HP PULL on guild wars and plus we re light armored, in that logic we NEED a huge burst if we want to be competitive against other classes…

please learn to read, he said warrior got shaved damage BEFORE sustain buff.

warrior BEFORE sustain buff is free kill trash tier class that no one plays and only viable in zerker one shot, so think before you talk next time.

No, no, no, no. Bring back our old sustain and we’ll be just as equally broken as we used to a year ago. Even more than a year ago.

We don’t need our sustain to be buffed. We need an overall damage reduction across all classes in tpvp (especially looking at thief and necro), including ourselves.
Also, nerf the ability that warrior has to stand on a node while keeping opponents at bay and unable to contest without eating 1000000 aoes.
>>> /need other game modes.

“winky face @Allie”

KarsaiB.9475:

No, no, no, no. Bring back our old sustain and we’ll be just as equally broken as we used to a year ago. Even more than a year ago.

We don’t need our sustain to be buffed. We need an overall damage reduction across all classes in tpvp (especially looking at thief and necro), including ourselves.
Also, nerf the ability that warrior has to stand on a node while keeping opponents at bay and unable to contest without eating 1000000 aoes.
>>> /need other game modes.

“winky face @Allie”

You say we like you play ele but don’t know about its nerf history.

You won’t be broken like before because you can’t ether renewal in mist form anymore. Signet of restoration had a bug that healed to much with evasive arcana dodges in earth.
RTL was bugged and you could go 1500 range and reset easy.

Unless Anet decides to revert bugs which I doubt the actual intended sustain was fine.

Those where the problems the intended healing was fine. You think SOR old levels really would make ele op without the above changes that happened?

oZii.2864:

KarsaiB.9475:

No, no, no, no. Bring back our old sustain and we’ll be just as equally broken as we used to a year ago. Even more than a year ago.

We don’t need our sustain to be buffed. We need an overall damage reduction across all classes in tpvp (especially looking at thief and necro), including ourselves.
Also, nerf the ability that warrior has to stand on a node while keeping opponents at bay and unable to contest without eating 1000000 aoes.
>>> /need other game modes.

“winky face @Allie”

You say we like you play ele but don’t know about its nerf history.

You won’t be broken like before because you can’t ether renewal in mist form anymore. Signet of restoration had a bug that healed to much with evasive arcana dodges in earth.
RTL was bugged and you could go 1500 range and reset easy.

Unless Anet decides to revert bugs which I doubt the actual intended sustain was fine.

Those where the problems the intended healing was fine. You think SOR old levels really would make ele op without the above changes that happened?

Maybe next time, show them this?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/How-would-you-balance-eles/first#post3632228

oZii.2864:

KarsaiB.9475:

No, no, no, no. Bring back our old sustain and we’ll be just as equally broken as we used to a year ago. Even more than a year ago.

We don’t need our sustain to be buffed. We need an overall damage reduction across all classes in tpvp (especially looking at thief and necro), including ourselves.
Also, nerf the ability that warrior has to stand on a node while keeping opponents at bay and unable to contest without eating 1000000 aoes.
>>> /need other game modes.

“winky face @Allie”

You say we like you play ele but don’t know about its nerf history.

You won’t be broken like before because you can’t ether renewal in mist form anymore. Signet of restoration had a bug that healed to much with evasive arcana dodges in earth.
RTL was bugged and you could go 1500 range and reset easy.

Unless Anet decides to revert bugs which I doubt the actual intended sustain was fine.

Those where the problems the intended healing was fine. You think SOR old levels really would make ele op without the above changes that happened?

“Buffing sustain” means make it sufficient enough to sustain through current amounts of damage floating around. Which is ridiculous, period.
If it wouldn’t be so, we’re just suggesting useless changes and wasting our time.

please learn to read, he said warrior got shaved damage BEFORE sustain buff.
warrior BEFORE sustain buff is free kill trash tier class that no one plays and only viable in zerker one shot, so think before you talk next time.

Before getting nervous, you have to know i’am french ( so yes, my understanding is not at the same level of every one ) , i came in here in intend to make advance things : no less no more, and because french forum are not very active.

please learn to read, he said warrior got shaved damage BEFORE sustain buff.
warrior BEFORE sustain buff is free kill trash tier class that no one plays and only viable in zerker one shot, so think before you talk next time.

my brother was top 20 warry at this time, so i guess your rule does not apply to every one…

I thought you were talking about sustained damage not self sustain. takes away vote

Slim.3024:

I am assuming this is a typo. If not, read up on what Arcane Shield does again.

Ok so take away the stun breaker fact. Do you have a suggestion? If so I would like to hear it.

Eles need more DMG, not sustain…
kitten , if you want to hurt a player you have to go full zerk
Otherwise you’re just surviving while the opponent recovers health quicker than you can take it

Stand The Wall.6987:

Slim.3024:

I am assuming this is a typo. If not, read up on what Arcane Shield does again.

Ok so take away the stun breaker fact. Do you have a suggestion? If so I would like to hear it.

It’s not just a stun break, it deals massive AoE damage as well (more than the regular Arcane Wave). I could see and get behind a 60s CD (48s traited), but that’s really the lowest it can go, since it blocks 3 attacks, deals a lot of damage and is guaranteed to crit (let’s ignore weakness for a second here) and is a stun break on top of it. Arcane abilities are also well supported by traits.

15 second CD would probably turn this into the most broken utility that we have ever seen in the game.

Macmoarning.3208:

Zenith.7301
Ele autoattacks need buffing anyways, especially water and earth attunement ones they’re terrible. Across all weapons.

Can’t totally agree, DD really have a cool sustain damage ( rly agressive earth and water stance ).
According to what you re saying : you are a Scepter player, which is a 900/600 ranged weapon and you’re expecting from that weapon to be at the same sustain lvl than a DD ? Do you think it is reasonable to have the sustain dps of a warrior while being at 900 range form your opponent ? I guess iam a bit extremist, i can clearly see what is your point, then allow me to ask something : what is the point in playin DD anymore ? if i have the same sustain on my Scepter, plus the actual burst..

nobody is expecting the overall ranged damage of a melee weapon however we would like to come close to other classes.

For example a rangers shortbow skill one takes 0.54 seconds to activate according to the wiki and deals a base damage of 134 and also has a DPS modifier of 0.4 thus in one second the ranger with a shortbow can deal 248+(0.4) damage in one second. (the (0.4) is that number multiplied by your power*weapon strenght all divided by the opponents armour in case people here don’t know. This also does not include bleeding

second example elementalists arc lightning (skill one air attunement) base damage of 634 over a course of 3.95 seconds = 160 base damage in one second with an average modifier of 0.1803. total damage is 160(0.18) in one second.

the elementalists attack penetrates, yes, hence why it should be nerfed a tad however a ranger has a pet to deal damage too and so they have a slight nerf to their output damage to compensate for this. So tell me Anet why the hell does our dps not even match that of other classes and most likely does not even come close to most ranged skills that can hit 1200 units away? Increase these damage coefficients now please and also while you are at it take evasive arcana out of the arcana traitline and place it in water traitline on a minor trait (the ones with an odd number 5-15 and 25) to give us a dodge roll similar to that of a guardian. this will stop elementalists from moving into the arcana traitline taking mediocre traits just to get evasive arcana and with this done we can finally take 30 points out of that line and would open up some potentil for a lot of other traitlines. I mean i like some of the traits in earth attunement but its just not feasible to spec into there right now.

And yes i like the idea of increasing their base HP it would mean a DD spec dps spec could actually remain next to the target long enought to hit their skill ones. Also as i have mentioned a serious look at their utilities is in order. one more thing i have not mentioned is that elementalists rely too much on CC to hit their attacks. This needs to change as most tPvP builds proffessions have access to a lot of stun breakers. So if i run S/D hit earthquake they break out of stun and i can only hit bolt to the heart. if a target has access to stun breakers then you can forget all about going into fire its just a waste of cd’s.

please please please please please sort it out. in fact make them ridiculously OP and forget about them for 4-5 months. Also i wouldn’t mind at all separating the skill set from spvp and pve at all just to keep the WvW people happy if that makes life easier for you.

Horrible idea. You should look at other professions and compare. Eles are lacking in the high burst department. They are extremely squishy, more than anyone else and should have higher burst to compensate.

You are probably thinking of over abundance of instant burst skills. This issue is mainly a minor issue, due to arcane utilities. Then again, you sacrifice something to achieve extra instant burst that allows for quick downage of squishy classes, if they don’t avoid your long combos.