Guild Wars 2

I have seen few posts related to lack of build diversity and i kinda disagree, here is why.
In GW2 you build around a playstyle of a weapon, and a weapon is designed to excel at a specific role. When looking at builds in competitive PvP game mode most if not all favor versatility over a niche. Does that mean non meta builds are bad? No that just means they are not well rounded. For instance Rev hammer build does insane damage at long range, but lacks utility to survive vs a high mobility melee. That niche opens you up for certain hard counters while makes you a hard counter for others(including strong meta builds).

I think the reason players say GW2 lacks build diversity is due to idea that meta is something of “be all end all”, while in reality of GW2, its just a build equipped with tools to handle wider range of other builds(some builds more then others) at the coast of definition. Meta is in a sense a way to fight a random pvp que.

P.S. GW2 has the best pvp in mmo to date.

I agree completely.

GW2 PvP lacks build diversity because with HoT the powercreep has meant the difference between the strongest build and the rest has got significantly larger, a lot of traits, weapons, etc have simply been left behind by the powercreep which has reduced options.

And secondarily that the changes they have made have reduced build options such as the change to 3 trait lines (which again is then made worse by the elite spec being almost mandatory in most cases).

P.S – The “best” PvP in an MMO is largely like the “best” anything else in an MMO, mainly down to personal preference, which is why most people playing an MMO are not playing this one…

Another factor is the emphasis on “the meta.” There’s a lot of social disapproval if you play anything other than what was last played in ESL or in any other style.

The only “mandatory” legendary lines are the once that compliment the build as a whole.
Powercreep is also fine they are legendary for a reason.

zinkz.7045:

P.S – The “best” PvP in an MMO is largely like the “best” anything else in an MMO, mainly down to personal preference, which is why most people playing an MMO are not playing this one…

No. GW2 has the best combat aside of 1v1 Blade and Soul which is why i said best PvP not mmo. Popularity amounts to jack kitten when you start to compare all the pros and cons, and yes personal preference has nothing do with a game its a personal after all(like those people who say broccoli taste good).

Lymphy.1276:

The only “mandatory” legendary lines are the once that compliment the build as a whole.
Powercreep is also fine they are legendary for a reason.

You mean the lines they stated would not be more powerful than the rest… And no powercreep is not fine, it is one of the reasons the combat in this game is more tedious, more skilless than it has ever been and no they become mandatory because the builds they produce (in most cases) are so much stronger, which of course has reduced diversity.

Lymphy.1276:

No. GW2 has the best combat aside of 1v1 Blade and Soul…

No, that is simply your personal preference, there is no “best”, many people cannot stand GW2 combat, I know people who found it too simple (things like no real resource management for example) or found the “action” combat to just be glorified tab targetted combat rather than real action combat where you have to aim skills, or to be strategically limited, etc, there is no “best”, your opinion, is just that, not a fact.

@ OP: You actually write something, but say nothing. The meta is too narrow, and yes that has for a large part to do with the fact that meta builds can handle the most other builds very well. So meta builds are better in general, and those are just a few builds → conclusion: not a lot of build diversity. You can invent a build yourself that might be able to overrule one meta build, but is useless versus other meta builds, so the build in general is not useful.

Right now, Necro seems to have a lot of variants for meta builds.

zinkz.7045:

No, that is simply your personal preference, there is no “best”, many people cannot stand GW2 combat, I know people who found it too simple (things like no real resource management for example) or found the “action” combat to just be glorified tab targetted combat rather than real action combat where you have to aim skills, or to be strategically limited, etc, there is no “best”, your opinion, is just that, not a fact.

Name an mmo that has complex combat, resource management, aim skills and healthy build diversity, as well as few examples so we can compare.

Lymphy.1276:

zinkz.7045:

No, that is simply your personal preference, there is no “best”, many people cannot stand GW2 combat, I know people who found it too simple (things like no real resource management for example) or found the “action” combat to just be glorified tab targeted combat rather than real action combat where you have to aim skills, or to be strategically limited, etc, there is no “best”, your opinion, is just that, not a fact.

Name an mmo that has complex combat, resource management, aim skills and healthy build diversity, as well as few examples so we can compare.

Why? (hint – maybe you should re-read the post you replied to…)

Lymphy.1276:

I have seen few posts related to lack of build diversity and i kinda disagree, here is why.
In GW2 you build around a playstyle of a weapon, and a weapon is designed to excel at a specific role. When looking at builds in competitive PvP game mode most if not all favor versatility over a niche. Does that mean non meta builds are bad? No that just means they are not well rounded. For instance Rev hammer build does insane damage at long range, but lacks utility to survive vs a high mobility melee. That niche opens you up for certain hard counters while makes you a hard counter for others(including strong meta builds).

I think the reason players say GW2 lacks build diversity is due to idea that meta is something of “be all end all”, while in reality of GW2, its just a build equipped with tools to handle wider range of other builds(some builds more then others) at the coast of definition. Meta is in a sense a way to fight a random pvp que.

P.S. GW2 has the best pvp in mmo to date.

I agree with the " GW2 has the best pvp in mmo to date" comment but you do realize you pointed out the fault in the game with your own hammer rev comment right?

If you are playing hammer rev and im playing the meta rev, the question becomes can a team build around 1 another to accommodate your build? The answer is no, so in team fights you will be weaker and in 1 vs 1/ 2 vs 2 you will be weaker against equally skilled players.

Lets say you are playing axe/axe warrior and im playing greatsword. I get 1 gap closer and 1 evade movement skill. Our bursts skills do the same amount of damage. Yet your a/a build has no evade/stun/block. Who will win?

This is simply the complaint about build diversity. Right now every class is offensive other then ele. Which forces the game to be played a certain way.

So right now, we have a lack of diversity with in each class and a lack of team diversity.

In this last TOL we had many teams run 0-5-0 splits in the fear of getting ganked.

Of course metas change but you want things to get better. S1 of HOT it was the bunker meta where everyone ran to a different point. This is the exact opposite where everyone runs together.

Is one better then the other? to some yes but to me its the same thing. We all might as well be playing revs/ele and bunker mesmers. The only difference is ESL only allows for 1 class per team.

In some classes the build diversity is more tha in others, but there’s still a good build diversity. At last, better than what we had in the previous seasons and what we had Before HoT.
Everyone that talk to how the elites cut off the build diversity, but I play from years and I don’t see so much difference in builds than before.
Elites added a traitline way better than all the others, forcing you to take it, but there’s still a good build diversity. More or less every class have a direct damage and a condition dmage build, or at last a dps and a support/bunker build. Guardian have the full trap, the meditrapper and the symbol builds and they all work really good. Necro have the sigil, the corruption and the shout(direct damage, yes) builds that work good, with some good moments with the MM build. Engi have the common dps, the condition and the decapper build (a shame that barely no one use it, it’s a insanely strong build!). Thief have the common stealth, the full dodge and the pistol build and they all work really good. The ranger have the LB dps, the bunker and the condition build and they rule with them all. Mesmers have direct damage, condi damage and still the support/bunker build. Warriors can go in condi dps, direct dps or hammerstun(another build that only few use but is still really good in a team fight for the insane amount of CC you have, expecially with the Berserker F1 Hammer skill that recharge every 4 sec).
And more.

There’s a lot of build diversity if you want to find it, to try new builds, new ways to play your class and to fight meta builds in a different way.
They’re all good in all the situations? No.
Are they strong when used as they was made for? Yes!

Just move around with your class, try some new trait, rune, sigil, amulet, weapon, utility combinations and be happy with all the amount of builds you can made for general or specific fights.
You can do this. Just stop to say “GW2 lack of build diversity”, delet Metabattle from your head and finally use it to make a build by yourself!
If you can’t do that, you don’t deserve new builds at all.

kdaddy.5431:

I agree with the " GW2 has the best pvp in mmo to date" comment but you do realize you pointed out the fault in the game with your own hammer rev comment right?

If you are playing hammer rev and im playing the meta rev, the question becomes can a team build around 1 another to accommodate your build? The answer is no, so in team fights you will be weaker and in 1 vs 1/ 2 vs 2 you will be weaker against equally skilled players.

Thank you for agreeing on the GW2 best mmo part and i see where you going with the hammer rev needs a certain team comp, but its only partially true because of how random ques are. Even if every one played a same meta builds in every game you still have skill, map, class, personal play styles and strategy to account for. Exact same build doesn’t mean it will be played the exact same way.

kdaddy.5431:

Lets say you are playing axe/axe warrior and im playing greatsword. I get 1 gap closer and 1 evade movement skill. Our bursts skills do the same amount of damage. Yet your a/a build has no evade/stun/block. Who will win?

Well this inst the best example simply because axe/axe is just a bad build. If you were to sacrifice all defense you better make sure you can nuke some one before you die and that inherently isn’t a bad nor good for a match.

There is a reason i brought up hammer rev. It is well defined build you gain massive damage in aoe (8k+ crits just on your 2 skill), aoe burst pressure, cc while being ranged while sacrificing 1v1 vs most melee(that doesn’t mean you get 1 shotted by a meta build you are still rev with a staff on second weapon as well as high mobility/cc/some evasion/some block).

kdaddy.5431:

This is simply the complaint about build diversity. Right now every class is offensive other then ele. Which forces the game to be played a certain way.

So right now, we have a lack of diversity with in each class and a lack of team diversity.

In this last TOL we had many teams run 0-5-0 splits in the fear of getting ganked.

Lack of diversity on meta website not in game. ESL is a different beast and not exactly a part of a random que pvp.

Like Silv.9207 said
“There’s a lot of build diversity if you want to find it, to try new builds, new ways to play your class and to fight meta builds in a different way.
They’re all good in all the situations? No.
Are they strong when used as they was made for? Yes!”

If you played the game since launch you know there are way less build possibilities now than before the new trait system, specially on some classes like the elementalist that has become brain dead boring to play.

Xillllix.3485:

If you played the game since launch you know there are way less build possibilities now than before the new trait system, specially on some classes like the elementalist that has become brain dead boring to play.

I don’t play elementalist enough to be qualified to discuss about their builds, but our of curiosity what builds did they have pre HoT vs now and where are you getting it from?

As for other classes war for example now has twice the builds power as well as condi, even rifle build vs pre HoT GS power and hambow?(if i remember correctly)

Lymphy.1276:

Xillllix.3485:

If you played the game since launch you know there are way less build possibilities now than before the new trait system, specially on some classes like the elementalist that has become brain dead boring to play.

I don’t play elementalist enough to be qualified to discuss about their builds, but our of curiosity what builds did they have pre HoT vs now and where are you getting it from?

I was playing a custom power/celestial elementalist build that used condi-duration from the fire trait line, water and arcane.

It was amazing fun, it was a build made to maximize damage burst on an immobilized foe by controlling the quickness and intelligence sigil. It only used 1 specific combo for opening fights. At the same time it was really situational and needed personal investment to succeed.

Not all 3 lines were maxed but points 4 lines were possible in some variations.

The opening combo had a great burst potential.

Passive in air:
At 900 distance: Opening using Signet of Earth, started 4 sec immob – Triggered intelligence sigil
Switched to fire once in combat.

Under the intelligence sigil:
Burning Speed 100% Crit – Triggers rage sigil quickness

With quickness:
Ring of Fire
Fire Grab 100% Crit

Earthquake 100% crit (interrupt synchronized with the end of the first immob)
Magnetic Grasp (second immob)
Churning Earth+Lightning flash (still with quickness if pulled off perfectly)

While channeling churning earth:
Frost Aura

(There is no time for anything else in that chain if you wish to get your churning earth under quickness, I’ve tested it thoroughly.)

Then if somehow he’s still up the typical:
Frozen Burst
Updraft
Ride the Lightning
Lightning Whip

The extra condi duration really gave an edge to the elementalist class for a condi/power hybrid, since condi damage on the elementalist is mostly bad.

The meta just doesn’t support that type of gameplay anymore, and the trait system doesn’t either. Too many passive dazes and interrupts, too many condis, everyone is equipping stun breaks because of the damage creep, too many boons and immunities. Everything has cheesed up.

Xillllix.3485:

Lymphy.1276:

Xillllix.3485:

If you played the game since launch you know there are way less build possibilities now than before the new trait system, specially on some classes like the elementalist that has become brain dead boring to play.

I don’t play elementalist enough to be qualified to discuss about their builds, but our of curiosity what builds did they have pre HoT vs now and where are you getting it from?

I was playing a custom power/celestial elementalist build that used condi-duration from the fire trait line, water and arcane.

It was amazing fun, it was a build made to maximize damage burst on an immobilized foe by controlling the quickness and intelligence sigil. It only used 1 specific combo for opening fights. At the same time it was really situational and needed personal investment to succeed.

Not all 3 lines were maxed but points 4 lines were possible in some variations.

The opening combo had a great burst potential.

Passive in air:
At 900 distance: Opening using Signet of Earth, started 4 sec immob – Triggered intelligence sigil
Switched to fire once in combat.

Under the intelligence sigil:
Burning Speed 100% Crit – Triggers rage sigil quickness

With quickness:
Ring of Fire
Fire Grab 100% Crit

Earthquake 100% crit (interrupt synchronized with the end of the first immob)
Magnetic Grasp (second immob)
Churning Earth+Lightning flash (still with quickness if pulled off perfectly)

While channeling churning earth:
Frost Aura

(There is no time for anything else in that chain if you wish to get your churning earth under quickness, I’ve tested it thoroughly.)

Then if somehow he’s still up the typical:
Frozen Burst
Updraft
Ride the Lightning
Lightning Whip

The extra condi duration really gave an edge to the elementalist class for a condi/power hybrid, since condi damage on the elementalist is mostly bad.

The meta just doesn’t support that type of gameplay anymore, and the trait system doesn’t either. Too many passive dazes and interrupts, too many condis, everyone is equipping stun breaks because of the damage creep, too many boons and immunities. Everything has cheesed up.

Before HoT was exactly like you said, Celestial.

Only Celestial. Then it was Clerics.

Now it’s Sage, Marauder, Paladin, Menders, Vipers and so on….

I find this build diversity thing to be limited by the players, not the game. It’s always Easier to spam Auras on a Menders build than it is to evade the damage on a Marauder Build.

sephiroth.4217:

Xillllix.3485:

Lymphy.1276:

Xillllix.3485:

If you played the game since launch you know there are way less build possibilities now than before the new trait system, specially on some classes like the elementalist that has become brain dead boring to play.

I don’t play elementalist enough to be qualified to discuss about their builds, but our of curiosity what builds did they have pre HoT vs now and where are you getting it from?

I was playing a custom power/celestial elementalist build that used condi-duration from the fire trait line, water and arcane.

It was amazing fun, it was a build made to maximize damage burst on an immobilized foe by controlling the quickness and intelligence sigil. It only used 1 specific combo for opening fights. At the same time it was really situational and needed personal investment to succeed.

Not all 3 lines were maxed but points 4 lines were possible in some variations.

The opening combo had a great burst potential.

Passive in air:
At 900 distance: Opening using Signet of Earth, started 4 sec immob – Triggered intelligence sigil
Switched to fire once in combat.

Under the intelligence sigil:
Burning Speed 100% Crit – Triggers rage sigil quickness

With quickness:
Ring of Fire
Fire Grab 100% Crit

Earthquake 100% crit (interrupt synchronized with the end of the first immob)
Magnetic Grasp (second immob)
Churning Earth+Lightning flash (still with quickness if pulled off perfectly)

While channeling churning earth:
Frost Aura

(There is no time for anything else in that chain if you wish to get your churning earth under quickness, I’ve tested it thoroughly.)

Then if somehow he’s still up the typical:
Frozen Burst
Updraft
Ride the Lightning
Lightning Whip

The extra condi duration really gave an edge to the elementalist class for a condi/power hybrid, since condi damage on the elementalist is mostly bad.

The meta just doesn’t support that type of gameplay anymore, and the trait system doesn’t either. Too many passive dazes and interrupts, too many condis, everyone is equipping stun breaks because of the damage creep, too many boons and immunities. Everything has cheesed up.

Before HoT was exactly like you said, Celestial.

Only Celestial. Then it was Clerics.

Now it’s Sage, Marauder, Paladin, Menders, Vipers and so on….

I find this build diversity thing to be limited by the players, not the game. It’s always Easier to spam Auras on a Menders build than it is to evade the damage on a Marauder Build.

LOL i will bring my warrior and you can bring for marauder ele, i say good luck to you

[quote=6395597;Silv.9207:. Engi have the common dps, the condition and the decapper build (a shame that barely no one use it, it’s a insanely strong build!). Thief have the common stealth, the full dodge and the pistol build and they all work really good. The ranger have the LB dps, the bunker and the condition build and they rule with them all. Mesmers have direct damage, condi damage and still the support/bunker build. [/quote]

How is decap engi build ? i did not find it in any places and with all stability around i am just curious to try it

I tried something like this but it seemed weak to me :
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQFAUlUUh+sYXWw6KQ7FLpF13GGAho4IlFVx4PmGFJA-TJRBQBA4CAYw9HcYZgP8AAAA
( i tried to couple decap to boon removal )

kdaddy.5431:

sephiroth.4217:

Xillllix.3485:

Lymphy.1276:

Xillllix.3485:

If you played the game since launch you know there are way less build possibilities now than before the new trait system, specially on some classes like the elementalist that has become brain dead boring to play.

I don’t play elementalist enough to be qualified to discuss about their builds, but our of curiosity what builds did they have pre HoT vs now and where are you getting it from?

I was playing a custom power/celestial elementalist build that used condi-duration from the fire trait line, water and arcane.

It was amazing fun, it was a build made to maximize damage burst on an immobilized foe by controlling the quickness and intelligence sigil. It only used 1 specific combo for opening fights. At the same time it was really situational and needed personal investment to succeed.

Not all 3 lines were maxed but points 4 lines were possible in some variations.

The opening combo had a great burst potential.

Passive in air:
At 900 distance: Opening using Signet of Earth, started 4 sec immob – Triggered intelligence sigil
Switched to fire once in combat.

Under the intelligence sigil:
Burning Speed 100% Crit – Triggers rage sigil quickness

With quickness:
Ring of Fire
Fire Grab 100% Crit

Earthquake 100% crit (interrupt synchronized with the end of the first immob)
Magnetic Grasp (second immob)
Churning Earth+Lightning flash (still with quickness if pulled off perfectly)

While channeling churning earth:
Frost Aura

(There is no time for anything else in that chain if you wish to get your churning earth under quickness, I’ve tested it thoroughly.)

Then if somehow he’s still up the typical:
Frozen Burst
Updraft
Ride the Lightning
Lightning Whip

The extra condi duration really gave an edge to the elementalist class for a condi/power hybrid, since condi damage on the elementalist is mostly bad.

The meta just doesn’t support that type of gameplay anymore, and the trait system doesn’t either. Too many passive dazes and interrupts, too many condis, everyone is equipping stun breaks because of the damage creep, too many boons and immunities. Everything has cheesed up.

Before HoT was exactly like you said, Celestial.

Only Celestial. Then it was Clerics.

Now it’s Sage, Marauder, Paladin, Menders, Vipers and so on….

I find this build diversity thing to be limited by the players, not the game. It’s always Easier to spam Auras on a Menders build than it is to evade the damage on a Marauder Build.

LOL i will bring my warrior and you can bring for marauder ele, i say good luck to you

I didn’t realize we were talking about 1v1 situations, I apologize for my comment being outfield I must have read the thread wrong.

kdaddy.5431:

LOL i will bring my warrior and you can bring for marauder ele, i say good luck to you

GW2 doesn’t have 1v1 ranked pvp. Suggesting that some builds are stronger in 1v1 situations doesn’t make them any more viable in 5v5.

Even if its not a 1 vs 1,

In ranked matches in S2-S4 if i was in a good group (because i mostly solo qued) we caught on to what people were running quickly.

We noticed the the glass ele, the hammer rev and we targeted them first.

When im with my guild team for guild missions or during the season. We would call out if he was running arcane or if the ele switched to earth for stone heart/stability etc etc etc.

Im sorry but obviously when in TS, running a odd build will get caught very fast.

When you get good pugs, once again the same thing will happen. Having a ele slightly outside the group fight will be a tell for thieves or anyone else to chase that player and farm them.

Lymphy.1276:

kdaddy.5431:

LOL i will bring my warrior and you can bring for marauder ele, i say good luck to you

GW2 doesn’t have 1v1 ranked pvp. Suggesting that some builds are stronger in 1v1 situations doesn’t make them any more viable in 5v5.

Ele is a support character since HOT. Currently a ele will lose to multiple professions in 1 vs 1 with any build if they builds are played right.

It is only viable threw the support of other classes giving healing.

Take away other players heals, the lack of sustain or stability, (the nerf which gives 40% protection on overloads which means only earth overloads) and couple that with you need to run shouts or weapon sets with multiple auras.

Take away 1-2 things from the meta and try running it against good players. You will crumble hard. Im not talking unranked where you can run P/P thief or full trap ranger and have success. Im talking where people will play there best class with the best builds and you are sitting there running a glass ele.

I didnt say because he couldnt win a 1 vs 1 that it is less viable. But if you want to break it down ele does almost everything to the least amount except support. You could bring a dps DH, warrior, necro and it would have better team dps. You could trade a dps thief to play the outsides and that would be better then a glass ele.

You can run terrible builds when you are far superior in skill then the other players but when facing equally skilled player where classes/comp and rotations matter. Running marauder ele is not useful in almost every aspect.

never been playing a meta build on my main and never had disapproval as some say. Meta is easy you just take your build ( had to do it for the stupid multi prof achievement for the wings) . I have hot but not playing it, non hot builds can still be good, ok some hot builds are easier to play but skill and fun matters.

kdaddy.5431:

Lymphy.1276:

kdaddy.5431:

LOL i will bring my warrior and you can bring for marauder ele, i say good luck to you

GW2 doesn’t have 1v1 ranked pvp. Suggesting that some builds are stronger in 1v1 situations doesn’t make them any more viable in 5v5.

Ele is a support character since HOT. Currently a ele will lose to multiple professions in 1 vs 1 with any build if they builds are played right.

It is only viable threw the support of other classes giving healing.

Take away other players heals, the lack of sustain or stability, (the nerf which gives 40% protection on overloads which means only earth overloads) and couple that with you need to run shouts or weapon sets with multiple auras.

Take away 1-2 things from the meta and try running it against good players. You will crumble hard. Im not talking unranked where you can run P/P thief or full trap ranger and have success. Im talking where people will play there best class with the best builds and you are sitting there running a glass ele.

I didnt say because he couldnt win a 1 vs 1 that it is less viable. But if you want to break it down ele does almost everything to the least amount except support. You could bring a dps DH, warrior, necro and it would have better team dps. You could trade a dps thief to play the outsides and that would be better then a glass ele.

You can run terrible builds when you are far superior in skill then the other players but when facing equally skilled player where classes/comp and rotations matter. Running marauder ele is not useful in almost every aspect.

Nearly 1 million damage in the first photo… A lot more than those “OP DPS BUILDS”… pretty good for “support only” no?

Second Photo has me at 37k damage received using a staff. (due to evades and dodging instead of tank n spank playstyle)

3rd photo is a hybrid build.

4th photo is marauder staff arcane mixture. 1v1 a thief for that point too.

5th photo is a 5 man ele team I was in for a few games, as you can see I’m clearly not the best Ele. That should be a testament to what people can achieve, I could probably do better myself if my fingers didn’t have arthritis or if I had a pc that didn’t sit at an avg ping of 300 with fps of 17-22.

I could post heaps of these builds/photos because I print screen every match stats to cross compare the stats between builds. Back to the point, it’s easier to spam aura menders heals than it is to actually play any other build. Don’t give the “team and TS” argument either because when I’m on TS or playing with a team I’m running a Paladin Ele simply because there is already a Mender Druid. What I bring as an Ele is mass condition removal, I let the real healers like Druid do the healing while I mass cleanse condi and apply hard and soft CC to a target. We fill in each others weak spots so to speak. Also playing with a Rev on our team, my mass condi removal is very much needed. (not pro teams, I just fill in for guild teams here and there)

There’s build diversity if players can handle high risk builds. Learning those builds takes patience and practice, you will wipe lots of times trying to learn them but the pay off is worth it. (its also the closest feeling you’ll get to the original pvp before HoT where timing and watching enemy skills actually mattered, before the HoT spray n pray builds)

I get the feeling that most of these lack of diversity in build complaints are basing themselves off what’s highly rated on metabattle. Yet what’s highly rated in metabattle seems to be builds used specifically in highly coordinated team matches in esl and not solo queue.

Perhaps if the diversity complaint is a perception problem, it might help if metabattle had two separate categories? One for solo queue builds and one for team oriented builds? Making the distinction might lead to more public knowledge of builds better suited for solo play.

No im basing the things off of who i had to play in the Seasons.

In season 1 when i was in diamond i had to face team PZ 4 games in a row, 1 game off and then face them again. 4 out of the 5 members. I then spent most of the season either facing OE,zoose and five gauge.

In season 2 i went straight to legendary with only about 10 losses from Amber to legendary.

In season 3 i spent alot of time seeing many ESL players. I actually took screen shots because in a 3 day span i say tarcis, trackstar and kaypud in almost every match on the other team.

These are the players i had to play against and no the builds dont work. I can do the exact same thing SEPHIROTH is doing.

Look at my screen shot of playing something not good and winning, wow this must mean its viable and we have good build diversity?

Look another screen shot of me and 2 guild mates running meta builds destroying another team when THEY DONT EVEN PVP.

Yes please lets all use screen shots to make our points and use fake numbers as well.

Im fine with people saying they had fun using X build and they got into legendary. Thats great good for you, im fine with a dev saying that he used a power necro to get to legendary. Good for him, he could be great for all i know.

But when we have a MM system that allows bad players to get to legendary and players with low MMR to get there. That means the ranking system is garbage.

If im having to face ESL level players i want to be able to run multiple builds per class.

You posting pics of you doing decent damage in UNRANKED against nobodys means absouletly jack when it comes to build diversity.

If i have to log in and face players 10X better then you or vice versa and are forced into certain builds there is a problem.

Quit using unranked and ohhh i play for fun out of it. This is a thread about build diversity and not only for you against unranked players but for everyone in the game.
Not just low skilled or average skill or slightly above average to the best players in the game but for everyone.

Seriously unranked games? I might as well join a HOT JOIN map and farm new players and come back with look 38 kills and 10 million damage. I ventari/dwarf rev build is so good. ( sarcasm, please this last sentence is sarcasm. Dont try to make a dps ventari/dwarf rev)

sephiroth.4217:

Nearly 1 million damage in the first photo… A lot more than those “OP DPS BUILDS”… pretty good for “support only” no?

Second Photo has me at 37k damage received using a staff. (due to evades and dodging instead of tank n spank playstyle)

3rd photo is a hybrid build.

4th photo is marauder staff arcane mixture. 1v1 a thief for that point too.

5th photo is a 5 man ele team I was in for a few games, as you can see I’m clearly not the best Ele. That should be a testament to what people can achieve, I could probably do better myself if my fingers didn’t have arthritis or if I had a pc that didn’t sit at an avg ping of 300 with fps of 17-22.

I could post heaps of these builds/photos because I print screen every match stats to cross compare the stats between builds. Back to the point, it’s easier to spam aura menders heals than it is to actually play any other build. Don’t give the “team and TS” argument either because when I’m on TS or playing with a team I’m running a Paladin Ele simply because there is already a Mender Druid. What I bring as an Ele is mass condition removal, I let the real healers like Druid do the healing while I mass cleanse condi and apply hard and soft CC to a target. We fill in each others weak spots so to speak. Also playing with a Rev on our team, my mass condi removal is very much needed. (not pro teams, I just fill in for guild teams here and there)

There’s build diversity if players can handle high risk builds. Learning those builds takes patience and practice, you will wipe lots of times trying to learn them but the pay off is worth it. (its also the closest feeling you’ll get to the original pvp before HoT where timing and watching enemy skills actually mattered, before the HoT spray n pray builds)

Don’t mean to knock your builds (more power to you), but post-match damage stats is not the sign of a high-damage build. In fact, it can mean the opposite. Here’s an illustrative example:

If you instagib a rev with a perfectly timed burst 5 times in a row, your damage stat will be about 100k.

On the other hand, if you spend 10 minutes fighting a rev on point without killing him because he keeps healing up in between your burst attempts, your damage stat will be like 500k+.

The more effective build/player ends up with a much lower damage stat at the end of the match.

zinkz.7045:

P.S – The “best” PvP in an MMO is largely like the “best” anything else in an MMO, mainly down to personal preference, which is why most people playing an MMO are not playing this one…

It’s kinda wrong to say most ppl are not playing this MMO. GW2 by numbers is the 2nd most played western MMO in the world. And I think we all know the first one.

ResJudicator.7916:

sephiroth.4217:

Nearly 1 million damage in the first photo… A lot more than those “OP DPS BUILDS”… pretty good for “support only” no?

Second Photo has me at 37k damage received using a staff. (due to evades and dodging instead of tank n spank playstyle)

3rd photo is a hybrid build.

4th photo is marauder staff arcane mixture. 1v1 a thief for that point too.

5th photo is a 5 man ele team I was in for a few games, as you can see I’m clearly not the best Ele. That should be a testament to what people can achieve, I could probably do better myself if my fingers didn’t have arthritis or if I had a pc that didn’t sit at an avg ping of 300 with fps of 17-22.

I could post heaps of these builds/photos because I print screen every match stats to cross compare the stats between builds. Back to the point, it’s easier to spam aura menders heals than it is to actually play any other build. Don’t give the “team and TS” argument either because when I’m on TS or playing with a team I’m running a Paladin Ele simply because there is already a Mender Druid. What I bring as an Ele is mass condition removal, I let the real healers like Druid do the healing while I mass cleanse condi and apply hard and soft CC to a target. We fill in each others weak spots so to speak. Also playing with a Rev on our team, my mass condi removal is very much needed. (not pro teams, I just fill in for guild teams here and there)

There’s build diversity if players can handle high risk builds. Learning those builds takes patience and practice, you will wipe lots of times trying to learn them but the pay off is worth it. (its also the closest feeling you’ll get to the original pvp before HoT where timing and watching enemy skills actually mattered, before the HoT spray n pray builds)

Don’t mean to knock your builds (more power to you), but post-match damage stats is not the sign of a high-damage build. In fact, it can mean the opposite. Here’s an illustrative example:

If you instagib a rev with a perfectly timed burst 5 times in a row, your damage stat will be about 100k.

On the other hand, if you spend 10 minutes fighting a rev on point without killing him because he keeps healing up in between your burst attempts, your damage stat will be like 500k+.

The more effective build/player ends up with a much lower damage stat at the end of the match.

Yea I’m aware of this factor, I use the stats, timer and total damage and reflect on the match to see what it is I’m looking to boost. That first match with a Million damage it was a full length match which rarely happens for my games, I was mostly trying to tell someone that build diversity exists across a wide range of builds. I got plenty of those lower stat ones but they only happen in ranked/team play and not solo/duo pubstomps. Either way I’m having fun on lots of builds, shame to see other gamers feel they are restricted to what esl players play.

Like someone else said though that makes a lot more sense: People are comparing ESL guild team builds as no diversity to that of solo q. My perspective is purely playing solo/duo and with guild teams, not pros.

sephiroth.4217:

ResJudicator.7916:

sephiroth.4217:

Nearly 1 million damage in the first photo… A lot more than those “OP DPS BUILDS”… pretty good for “support only” no?

Second Photo has me at 37k damage received using a staff. (due to evades and dodging instead of tank n spank playstyle)

3rd photo is a hybrid build.

4th photo is marauder staff arcane mixture. 1v1 a thief for that point too.

5th photo is a 5 man ele team I was in for a few games, as you can see I’m clearly not the best Ele. That should be a testament to what people can achieve, I could probably do better myself if my fingers didn’t have arthritis or if I had a pc that didn’t sit at an avg ping of 300 with fps of 17-22.

I could post heaps of these builds/photos because I print screen every match stats to cross compare the stats between builds. Back to the point, it’s easier to spam aura menders heals than it is to actually play any other build. Don’t give the “team and TS” argument either because when I’m on TS or playing with a team I’m running a Paladin Ele simply because there is already a Mender Druid. What I bring as an Ele is mass condition removal, I let the real healers like Druid do the healing while I mass cleanse condi and apply hard and soft CC to a target. We fill in each others weak spots so to speak. Also playing with a Rev on our team, my mass condi removal is very much needed. (not pro teams, I just fill in for guild teams here and there)

There’s build diversity if players can handle high risk builds. Learning those builds takes patience and practice, you will wipe lots of times trying to learn them but the pay off is worth it. (its also the closest feeling you’ll get to the original pvp before HoT where timing and watching enemy skills actually mattered, before the HoT spray n pray builds)

Don’t mean to knock your builds (more power to you), but post-match damage stats is not the sign of a high-damage build. In fact, it can mean the opposite. Here’s an illustrative example:

If you instagib a rev with a perfectly timed burst 5 times in a row, your damage stat will be about 100k.

On the other hand, if you spend 10 minutes fighting a rev on point without killing him because he keeps healing up in between your burst attempts, your damage stat will be like 500k+.

The more effective build/player ends up with a much lower damage stat at the end of the match.

Yea I’m aware of this factor, I use the stats, timer and total damage and reflect on the match to see what it is I’m looking to boost. That first match with a Million damage it was a full length match which rarely happens for my games, I was mostly trying to tell someone that build diversity exists across a wide range of builds. I got plenty of those lower stat ones but they only happen in ranked/team play and not solo/duo pubstomps. Either way I’m having fun on lots of builds, shame to see other gamers feel they are restricted to what esl players play.

Like someone else said though that makes a lot more sense: People are comparing ESL guild team builds as no diversity to that of solo q. My perspective is purely playing solo/duo and with guild teams, not pros.

You post pictures, yet I see no one in the enemy team that is a highly skilled player. In higher elo, your build would have been pretty useless. Unranked matches are matches where people tend to troll with builds, who’s to say that the opponents were running meta builds?

Good thieves would pretty much instagib you, revenants would apply pressure, so that your staff dps will be useless. A rev pressuring you means that you can’t kill kitten, because staff inherently, is a bad 1v1 tool, which means that you wouldn’t be able to kill rev’s 1v1 with it. You could perhaps hold him, but what’s the point of that build then, when its purpose is to dps? All those pictures show me is, that you haven’t been pressured at all.

Octaslash.9437:

sephiroth.4217:

ResJudicator.7916:

sephiroth.4217:

Nearly 1 million damage in the first photo… A lot more than those “OP DPS BUILDS”… pretty good for “support only” no?

Second Photo has me at 37k damage received using a staff. (due to evades and dodging instead of tank n spank playstyle)

3rd photo is a hybrid build.

4th photo is marauder staff arcane mixture. 1v1 a thief for that point too.

5th photo is a 5 man ele team I was in for a few games, as you can see I’m clearly not the best Ele. That should be a testament to what people can achieve, I could probably do better myself if my fingers didn’t have arthritis or if I had a pc that didn’t sit at an avg ping of 300 with fps of 17-22.

I could post heaps of these builds/photos because I print screen every match stats to cross compare the stats between builds. Back to the point, it’s easier to spam aura menders heals than it is to actually play any other build. Don’t give the “team and TS” argument either because when I’m on TS or playing with a team I’m running a Paladin Ele simply because there is already a Mender Druid. What I bring as an Ele is mass condition removal, I let the real healers like Druid do the healing while I mass cleanse condi and apply hard and soft CC to a target. We fill in each others weak spots so to speak. Also playing with a Rev on our team, my mass condi removal is very much needed. (not pro teams, I just fill in for guild teams here and there)

There’s build diversity if players can handle high risk builds. Learning those builds takes patience and practice, you will wipe lots of times trying to learn them but the pay off is worth it. (its also the closest feeling you’ll get to the original pvp before HoT where timing and watching enemy skills actually mattered, before the HoT spray n pray builds)

Don’t mean to knock your builds (more power to you), but post-match damage stats is not the sign of a high-damage build. In fact, it can mean the opposite. Here’s an illustrative example:

If you instagib a rev with a perfectly timed burst 5 times in a row, your damage stat will be about 100k.

On the other hand, if you spend 10 minutes fighting a rev on point without killing him because he keeps healing up in between your burst attempts, your damage stat will be like 500k+.

The more effective build/player ends up with a much lower damage stat at the end of the match.

Yea I’m aware of this factor, I use the stats, timer and total damage and reflect on the match to see what it is I’m looking to boost. That first match with a Million damage it was a full length match which rarely happens for my games, I was mostly trying to tell someone that build diversity exists across a wide range of builds. I got plenty of those lower stat ones but they only happen in ranked/team play and not solo/duo pubstomps. Either way I’m having fun on lots of builds, shame to see other gamers feel they are restricted to what esl players play.

Like someone else said though that makes a lot more sense: People are comparing ESL guild team builds as no diversity to that of solo q. My perspective is purely playing solo/duo and with guild teams, not pros.

You post pictures, yet I see no one in the enemy team that is a highly skilled player. In higher elo, your build would have been pretty useless. Unranked matches are matches where people tend to troll with builds, who’s to say that the opponents were running meta builds?

Good thieves would pretty much instagib you, revenants would apply pressure, so that your staff dps will be useless. A rev pressuring you means that you can’t kill kitten, because staff inherently, is a bad 1v1 tool, which means that you wouldn’t be able to kill rev’s 1v1 with it. You could perhaps hold him, but what’s the point of that build then, when its purpose is to dps? All those pictures show me is, that you haven’t been pressured at all.

this is what i was saying but i think you made a clearer point

kdaddy.5431:

Octaslash.9437:

sephiroth.4217:

ResJudicator.7916:

sephiroth.4217:

Nearly 1 million damage in the first photo… A lot more than those “OP DPS BUILDS”… pretty good for “support only” no?

Second Photo has me at 37k damage received using a staff. (due to evades and dodging instead of tank n spank playstyle)

3rd photo is a hybrid build.

4th photo is marauder staff arcane mixture. 1v1 a thief for that point too.

5th photo is a 5 man ele team I was in for a few games, as you can see I’m clearly not the best Ele. That should be a testament to what people can achieve, I could probably do better myself if my fingers didn’t have arthritis or if I had a pc that didn’t sit at an avg ping of 300 with fps of 17-22.

I could post heaps of these builds/photos because I print screen every match stats to cross compare the stats between builds. Back to the point, it’s easier to spam aura menders heals than it is to actually play any other build. Don’t give the “team and TS” argument either because when I’m on TS or playing with a team I’m running a Paladin Ele simply because there is already a Mender Druid. What I bring as an Ele is mass condition removal, I let the real healers like Druid do the healing while I mass cleanse condi and apply hard and soft CC to a target. We fill in each others weak spots so to speak. Also playing with a Rev on our team, my mass condi removal is very much needed. (not pro teams, I just fill in for guild teams here and there)

There’s build diversity if players can handle high risk builds. Learning those builds takes patience and practice, you will wipe lots of times trying to learn them but the pay off is worth it. (its also the closest feeling you’ll get to the original pvp before HoT where timing and watching enemy skills actually mattered, before the HoT spray n pray builds)

Don’t mean to knock your builds (more power to you), but post-match damage stats is not the sign of a high-damage build. In fact, it can mean the opposite. Here’s an illustrative example:

If you instagib a rev with a perfectly timed burst 5 times in a row, your damage stat will be about 100k.

On the other hand, if you spend 10 minutes fighting a rev on point without killing him because he keeps healing up in between your burst attempts, your damage stat will be like 500k+.

The more effective build/player ends up with a much lower damage stat at the end of the match.

Yea I’m aware of this factor, I use the stats, timer and total damage and reflect on the match to see what it is I’m looking to boost. That first match with a Million damage it was a full length match which rarely happens for my games, I was mostly trying to tell someone that build diversity exists across a wide range of builds. I got plenty of those lower stat ones but they only happen in ranked/team play and not solo/duo pubstomps. Either way I’m having fun on lots of builds, shame to see other gamers feel they are restricted to what esl players play.

Like someone else said though that makes a lot more sense: People are comparing ESL guild team builds as no diversity to that of solo q. My perspective is purely playing solo/duo and with guild teams, not pros.

You post pictures, yet I see no one in the enemy team that is a highly skilled player. In higher elo, your build would have been pretty useless. Unranked matches are matches where people tend to troll with builds, who’s to say that the opponents were running meta builds?

Good thieves would pretty much instagib you, revenants would apply pressure, so that your staff dps will be useless. A rev pressuring you means that you can’t kill kitten, because staff inherently, is a bad 1v1 tool, which means that you wouldn’t be able to kill rev’s 1v1 with it. You could perhaps hold him, but what’s the point of that build then, when its purpose is to dps? All those pictures show me is, that you haven’t been pressured at all.

this is what i was saying but i think you made a clearer point

I did say my perspective is solo/duo and guild teams, not Pros. But thank you for elaborating on this further. Almost feels like I triggered people with those pics.

I’m starting to think you guys are the pro’s by the way you speak for the pros. I just assumed like most people who post on the forums that they are just the average player base like everyone else, sorry for the confusion. I’ll let you Pro ESL players talk about ESL level of gameplay while I go use my bad builds against the other 99.9% of the playerbase.

I’ve got nothing to argue, I was only trying to help fellow gamers enjoy the game a little more if they feel build diversity really is that bad when it comes to non esl games but it appears I haven’t helped at all so I won’t even be looking in this thread again. I do not want to partake in a discussion on the behalf of others.

sephiroth.4217:

I’ve got nothing to argue, I was only trying to help fellow gamers enjoy the game a little more if they feel build diversity really is that bad when it comes to non esl games but it appears I haven’t helped at all so I won’t even be looking in this thread again. I do not want to partake in a discussion on the behalf of others.

Its all good man, at the end of the day you prove that build diversity is in a game by playing something that works for you and you have fun with vs the majority of players.

Good luck and have fun.