Guild Wars 2

This is the most “cookie-cutter”eque i’ve seen PvP. I see only the same builds. Power scrappers, power shiros, reapers, aura share eles, trap guards, and gs/staff druids. When I do a match and see a thief, mesmer or warrior it’s like whoa. And even then they are running the same builds as each other.

Look, I get it…the strong builds will always be meta. It’s just a little too closed off right now. It’s not a QQ as much as it is a hope that we can get a little bit broader balance moving forward. In a game with so many weapons, traits and utility skills to have the possibility of sooo many different builds…we shouldn’t see this few builds.

Just my 2 cents.

If you think PvP Build diversity is bad, you should see PvE…

At least I know I am not running Meta build. I though play Scrapper but I play a build I have come up myself and it is really good as I beat most meta scrappers at my level. But necros are the death to me as my build does not give alot condition cleanse.

Nerifes.4931:

If you think PvP Build diversity is bad, you should see PvE…

You’re right tbh. All phases of the game seem to have gotten very singular in builds.

playing longbow / sword dagger druid has been working fine so far against all the meta builds.

Ah yes, build diversity. You can thank sights such as Meta Battle for that. Anyone can just go there load up the new “Meta” and play. I’m willing to Bet 95% of all players have no idea how to make a build. They just copy and paste.

But what about my DH (Virtues, Valor) mace/shield with staff and menders amulet and Rune of Dwayna build? I’ve got most of my wins on that actually lol.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

At least I know I am not running Meta build. I though play Scrapper but I play a build I have come up myself and it is really good as I beat most meta scrappers at my level. But necros are the death to me as my build does not give alot condition cleanse.

with so many necros running around, you are doing something wrong if your build cannot take on them.

that’s the reason build diversity is gone: people use what better adapts to the current situation and, ironically, the better way to deal with the meta is the meta!

I’m running PU condi.. It was meta months or a year back. I can still surprise people. Sadly, it works better for me than the nuked chronomancer.

Yeah, that’s true It’s much harder to beat Elite class with core ones. You deal dramaticaly less damage, have no boons, no stability (now all classess just spread tons of pulls, knockdowns, dazes , stuns). I used to play condi necro on pvp since i bought GW2 2 years ago, but i had to switch to reaper, to be equal to other classes. Damage from chill doubled my outgoing CD, i replaced skills with shouts, because they grant both damage and boons. Core utilities don’t give you even half of what can you get from elite ones

Can we have PVE itemisation please?

ANET simply have to balanced diminishing return, weapon coefficient, healing power coefficient and other stats with soft caps or hard cap.

ANET do it for PVE, why not doing it for PVP?

ANET are removing builds options since 2015. The game was above average on build customization for sPvP before that… now, it’s really “blend”.

Please ANET, STOP creating the META. In all great game, META is made by players who build versus it. Magic the Gathering let people create DECK to BEAT the META. Gw2 spvp competitive players, builds to get the best optimum build not the build to beat meta… because with all the cut on customize you do… we CAN’T adjust to META anymore.

So, ANET you are creating the META while all Esport community create their own.

…

I want PVE itemisation into SPVP.

Sollution is just to remove you-totally-can’t-play-this-class-without-those-traits from elite traitlines

Build diversity was just as bad last season and has been awful ever since HoT.

I fought a p/p engi in one of the ranked matches and I thought I was seeing a leprechaun .

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah yes, build diversity. You can thank sights such as Meta Battle for that. Anyone can just go there load up the new “Meta” and play. I’m willing to Bet 95% of all players have no idea how to make a build. They just copy and paste.

This was not true before HOT, I mean some classes were still forced to play a certain build at ESL level like ranger and mesmer.

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Before HOT there was alot different build comps that could be successful. The most disappointing thing about the Pro league finals was literally every team had the exact same comp and builds basically.

1 team had a mesmer and 1 had a ranger and literally everyone else had the exact same build. This was a chance for teams to be different after the patch but all 4 teams foudn the exact same comp to be the best comps. Meta Battle had nothing to do with that.

kdaddy.5431:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah yes, build diversity. You can thank sights such as Meta Battle for that. Anyone can just go there load up the new “Meta” and play. I’m willing to Bet 95% of all players have no idea how to make a build. They just copy and paste.

This was not true before HOT, I mean some classes were still forced to play a certain build at ESL level like ranger and mesmer.

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Before HOT there was alot different build comps that could be successful. The most disappointing thing about the Pro league finals was literally every team had the exact same comp and builds basically.

1 team had a mesmer and 1 had a ranger and literally everyone else had the exact same build. This was a chance for teams to be different after the patch but all 4 teams foudn the exact same comp to be the best comps. Meta Battle had nothing to do with that.

Oh I’m sorry,I didn’t know we where talking about the past, or the 5% that know how to do builds………

Great to see you read and understood what I typed.

BrotherBelial.3094:

kdaddy.5431:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah yes, build diversity. You can thank sights such as Meta Battle for that. Anyone can just go there load up the new “Meta” and play. I’m willing to Bet 95% of all players have no idea how to make a build. They just copy and paste.

This was not true before HOT, I mean some classes were still forced to play a certain build at ESL level like ranger and mesmer.

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Before HOT there was alot different build comps that could be successful. The most disappointing thing about the Pro league finals was literally every team had the exact same comp and builds basically.

1 team had a mesmer and 1 had a ranger and literally everyone else had the exact same build. This was a chance for teams to be different after the patch but all 4 teams foudn the exact same comp to be the best comps. Meta Battle had nothing to do with that.

Oh I’m sorry,I didn’t know we where talking about the past, or the 5% that know how to do builds………

Great to see you read and understood what I typed.

Im sorry but your comment was horrible and needed addressed

What do you expect when reducing 5 traitlines to possible 3
of which only 1 trait per minor/master/grandmaster makes sense.

kdaddy.5431:

BrotherBelial.3094:

kdaddy.5431:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah yes, build diversity. You can thank sights such as Meta Battle for that. Anyone can just go there load up the new “Meta” and play. I’m willing to Bet 95% of all players have no idea how to make a build. They just copy and paste.

This was not true before HOT, I mean some classes were still forced to play a certain build at ESL level like ranger and mesmer.

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Before HOT there was alot different build comps that could be successful. The most disappointing thing about the Pro league finals was literally every team had the exact same comp and builds basically.

1 team had a mesmer and 1 had a ranger and literally everyone else had the exact same build. This was a chance for teams to be different after the patch but all 4 teams foudn the exact same comp to be the best comps. Meta Battle had nothing to do with that.

Oh I’m sorry,I didn’t know we where talking about the past, or the 5% that know how to do builds………

Great to see you read and understood what I typed.

Im sorry but your comment was horrible and needed addressed

By horrible you mean true.

Bart Weird.9671:

What do you expect when reducing 5 traitlines to possible 3
of which only 1 trait per minor/master/grandmaster makes sense.

Very true.

You could have as many viable builds as you want but people will still ask “whats best?” and play that. Also if you are part of the 99% not in the extreme upper echelon of top play its possible to have success with all kinds of out of the box builds . This is especially true when you are facing the bulk of players who just copy paste a meta battle build and have no idea how to adapt to something unexpected.

Could build diversity be better? of course it always could however there will always be a build that is perceived as optimum , people will always choose to play this build as “duh its the best”

Its as much a problem with the conservative nature of the player base as with anything else.

I would argue it’s the same in most games. Whether builds in RPGs or decks in Hearthstone, like the majority of players are conditioned to use other people’s stuff whether a random guide on a forum or what they see in a pro tournament.

kdaddy.5431:

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Oh lol. That was a long time ago. They butchered that build with the Icebow nerf, and collateral nerfs of d/d cantrip eles. Well, that was the last variation of the build, dps settler conjure staff. Good times.

My current Conjure Tempest is definitively not viable anymore with all the nerfs it got (52-70% protection uptime reduction from overload Earth), while counters got buffed. To hell with build diversity.

drgast.1469:

This is the most “cookie-cutter”eque i’ve seen PvP. I see only the same builds. Power scrappers, power shiros, reapers, aura share eles, trap guards, and gs/staff druids. When I do a match and see a thief, mesmer or warrior it’s like whoa. And even then they are running the same builds as each other.

Look, I get it…the strong builds will always be meta. It’s just a little too closed off right now. It’s not a QQ as much as it is a hope that we can get a little bit broader balance moving forward. In a game with so many weapons, traits and utility skills to have the possibility of sooo many different builds…we shouldn’t see this few builds.

Just my 2 cents.

I’ve tried so hard to make ele builds work without tempest, but nothing does. Ele abilities need an overhaul or they need baseline buffs to stats. If I choose certain stats I lose others that are equally important. Apparently the only thing that will work is aura, and I refuse to play support. Why should I have to?

All these amulets, sigils, runes, weapons, and trait lines, an I am forced into ONE combo? This game was a lot more fun before HoT

kdaddy.5431:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah yes, build diversity. You can thank sights such as Meta Battle for that. Anyone can just go there load up the new “Meta” and play. I’m willing to Bet 95% of all players have no idea how to make a build. They just copy and paste.

This was not true before HOT, I mean some classes were still forced to play a certain build at ESL level like ranger and mesmer.

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Before HOT there was alot different build comps that could be successful. The most disappointing thing about the Pro league finals was literally every team had the exact same comp and builds basically.

1 team had a mesmer and 1 had a ranger and literally everyone else had the exact same build. This was a chance for teams to be different after the patch but all 4 teams foudn the exact same comp to be the best comps. Meta Battle had nothing to do with that.

Rangers were in ESL before HoT? That’s news to me; they certainly weren’t in WTS. Anyways, things have pretty much always been like this: swarms of copy/paste builds. GW1 was certainly like that, no matter how badly I want to deny it (nostalgia can be powerful). I tend not to play the meta builds, but I certainly seem to be the exception.

I think the underlining math is just kind of busted. Damage goes up exponentially. Tankyness is either worthless or cancer. For tankyness to have any worth in PvE it’s awful for PvP.

Invincible comps should be a thing in PvP given how PvE needs to be balanced. WoW got around this by PvP gear functioning different than PvE gear and mobs in PvE did less damage than DPS characters so everyone is tankyer in PvP but that doesn’t lead to cancer stalemates.

So amulets could give way more stats as a way to separate the game mods. Tanking won’t make you invincible in PvP but tanky stats don’t have to be useless in PvE (as in wearing then making monster fights harder because the decreased DPS isn’t compensated with longer survival times)

PvP gears in gw2 is already a split from PvE.

What they need is to improve useless traits/weapon skills to improve build diversity. Right now Ele has only one build, that is the healbot build. They need to buff Signet/Arcane/Glyph and more Shatterstone for it to be even borderline viable.

Sunshine.5014:

PvP gears in gw2 is already a split from PvE.

What they need is to improve useless traits/weapon skills to improve build diversity. Right now Ele has only one build, that is the healbot build. They need to buff Signet/Arcane/Glyph and more Shatterstone for it to be even borderline viable.

PvP stats are smaller. I think that is the exact wrong solution. PvP stats need to be much higher.

Alekt.5803:

kdaddy.5431:

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Oh lol. That was a long time ago. They butchered that build with the Icebow nerf, and collateral nerfs of d/d cantrip eles. Well, that was the last variation of the build, dps settler conjure staff. Good times.

My current Conjure Tempest is definitively not viable anymore with all the nerfs it got (52-70% protection uptime reduction from overload Earth), while counters got buffed. To hell with build diversity.

It was pretty awesome, this guy ran the rock shield, frost bow and fiery greatsword and he won his 1 vs 1 with a dagger ele and when the guy tried to run he could catch him.

Also the bunker ranger was not as good as shoutbow warrior and shout guardian but he had more mobility and diversity. The team we faced and beat had 2 d/d ele, 1 shout guardian, 1 dps warrior and a thief.

Mid game we decided to out rotate the guardian and this made the ranger for our team better since we head better movement. I mean this is all the stuff i miss. Small differences in builds made it so teams could change up strategy in mid-late game. We won a close game and next game we started with that strategy and we crushed them 2nd game.

Thats what this game is missing. Obviously we were nothing special playing playing in AG but it made for exciting match ups with 3 people from the team i was on not playing meta builds and having success vs players using all meta builds.

kdaddy.5431:

Alekt.5803:

kdaddy.5431:

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Oh lol. That was a long time ago. They butchered that build with the Icebow nerf, and collateral nerfs of d/d cantrip eles. Well, that was the last variation of the build, dps settler conjure staff. Good times.

My current Conjure Tempest is definitively not viable anymore with all the nerfs it got (52-70% protection uptime reduction from overload Earth), while counters got buffed. To hell with build diversity.

It was pretty awesome, this guy ran the rock shield, frost bow and fiery greatsword and he won his 1 vs 1 with a dagger ele and when the guy tried to run he could catch him.

Also the bunker ranger was not as good as shoutbow warrior and shout guardian but he had more mobility and diversity. The team we faced and beat had 2 d/d ele, 1 shout guardian, 1 dps warrior and a thief.

Mid game we decided to out rotate the guardian and this made the ranger for our team better since we head better movement. I mean this is all the stuff i miss. Small differences in builds made it so teams could change up strategy in mid-late game. We won a close game and next game we started with that strategy and we crushed them 2nd game.

Thats what this game is missing. Obviously we were nothing special playing playing in AG but it made for exciting match ups with 3 people from the team i was on not playing meta builds and having success vs players using all meta builds.

Yep, that was me. I was running that stuff on AG to counter bunker guards.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

kdaddy.5431:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Ah yes, build diversity. You can thank sights such as Meta Battle for that. Anyone can just go there load up the new “Meta” and play. I’m willing to Bet 95% of all players have no idea how to make a build. They just copy and paste.

This was not true before HOT, I mean some classes were still forced to play a certain build at ESL level like ranger and mesmer.

The best 5 man AG group i was in was a conjure ele (not on meta battle) that could beat d/d 1 vs 1, my staff cele which was on meta but not at d/d level, a s/d thief when everyone was using d/p, a pu mesmer(which was meta) and a bunker ranger.

Before HOT there was alot different build comps that could be successful. The most disappointing thing about the Pro league finals was literally every team had the exact same comp and builds basically.

1 team had a mesmer and 1 had a ranger and literally everyone else had the exact same build. This was a chance for teams to be different after the patch but all 4 teams foudn the exact same comp to be the best comps. Meta Battle had nothing to do with that.

Rangers were in ESL before HoT? That’s news to me; they certainly weren’t in WTS. Anyways, things have pretty much always been like this: swarms of copy/paste builds. GW1 was certainly like that, no matter how badly I want to deny it (nostalgia can be powerful). I tend not to play the meta builds, but I certainly seem to be the exception.

I seen tons of double Spirit rangers in ESL.

You shoulda seen last meta or the cele ele meta. Cele ele meta had the one dominant build every one ran and last meta it was just… ugh. Bunker mesmers, revs and tempests. Maybe a scrapper or a druid but almost never.