Guild Wars 2

Write down the bullkitten builds you hate to loose against which have no counterplay.

1- DD ele.
2- Insta invi burst down mesmer.
3- double endure pain rampage warrior.
4- invi burst down thief.
5- 5k crit litch necro.

hmm… I think you better stop playing PvP.

yeah, those builds doesnt have any counter play, its not absolutely just you ^^

Anything condis really
Oh and that 3v1 rampage thingy :<
Rest is meh

5k crit lich necro?

Isn’t it nice?

Before it did crit for 7~9k

lol Mesmer can still 1 shot a d/d ele from stealth so…

if you think ham/gs has no counterplay, buddy you scrubby

Apolo.5942:

Write down the bullkitten builds you hate to loose against which have no counterplay.

1- DD ele.
2- Insta invi burst down mesmer.
3- double endure pain rampage warrior.
4- invi burst down thief.
5- 5k crit litch necro.

1. Chill condition. Or just outsustain them (not easy or viable on all builds you might run of course). Moa them and then hit them with burst. Yeah, I’ll give you this one, this is a tough opponent, no apparent weaknesses, but I’ve beaten D/D ellies, and they’ve beaten me, so while it’s hard fight it’s not an impossible one.

Granted when they win, they tend to mop me up in less than 20 seconds, and I fought a D/D on a point for a minute and a half once before finally winning. That doesn’t seem to be right, the fight should last about the same either way. So it probably does need to be tweaked.

2. It’s flavor of the month, nothing you can do about it. At least if they don’t open up on you with that burst you can fight them like always. I run Lock On personally, it helps. Play against the meta.

3. Moa them. Disengage from pointless fight. Try to cap points and then fight the warrior off point so they waste it in a skirmish.

4. Cleave up and pressure the area. It’s fairly predictable what the thief will do, unless they use a lot of stealth to approach you unseen.

5. See 3.

Granted, that’s not a LOT of counterplay against some of these, but it does exist.

Also, 3 and 5 both depend on Elites. The Elite shouldn’t be quite an I win button, but it’s a powerful limited use resource meant to drastically affect the outcome of a fight. It’s not so bad to lose a fight when the other player had to use an elite to cinch it.

Thing is, there’s always going to be a “best”. You’ve just got to deal with it.

Lich is probably the most counterplayable elite in the game. Moa, CC, refelcts, blinds, blocks, hell, even just strafing all work to negate it. The only thing that doesn’t is trying to circle around behind it.

After 7/28/2015, everything seems fine with exception for a few things in my opinion:

• D/D Cele Ele needs a very slight nerf in some way
• Warriors need the option to take both merciless hammer and burst mastery again
• Engineers need turret play back! Engi is in a terrible place right now
• Team stealthing in general has become too strong in the current meta for many many reasons. If they want to keep this DPS creep, they need to update the mechanics of stealthing so that it is not as easy to maintain a 100% stealth disengage up time on point in team fights.

LunacyPolish.4602:

1. Chill condition. Or just outsustain them (not easy or viable on all builds you might run of course). Moa them and then hit them with burst. Yeah, I’ll give you this one, this is a tough opponent, no apparent weaknesses, but I’ve beaten D/D ellies, and they’ve beaten me, so while it’s hard fight it’s not an impossible one.

Granted when they win, they tend to mop me up in less than 20 seconds, and I fought a D/D on a point for a minute and a half once before finally winning. That doesn’t seem to be right, the fight should last about the same either way. So it probably does need to be tweaked.

2. It’s flavor of the month, nothing you can do about it. At least if they don’t open up on you with that burst you can fight them like always. I run Lock On personally, it helps. Play against the meta.

3. Moa them. Disengage from pointless fight. Try to cap points and then fight the warrior off point so they waste it in a skirmish.

4. Cleave up and pressure the area. It’s fairly predictable what the thief will do, unless they use a lot of stealth to approach you unseen.

5. See 3.

Granted, that’s not a LOT of counterplay against some of these, but it does exist.

Also, 3 and 5 both depend on Elites. The Elite shouldn’t be quite an I win button, but it’s a powerful limited use resource meant to drastically affect the outcome of a fight. It’s not so bad to lose a fight when the other player had to use an elite to cinch it.

Thing is, there’s always going to be a “best”. You’ve just got to deal with it.

So to sum up.
-1, 3 and 5 you need to counter them with an “i win button” of some description.
-2 is unlikelly to be countered if they play it right.
-4 throw aoe blindly and you might have a chance, unless they abuse stealth which is what thiefs are meant to do any way.

I will concede thou that litch is the most fair of the bunch, they hit like a truck, but unlike rampage their access to stability is limited which makes counter play possible.

Apolo.5942:

Write down the bullkitten builds you hate to loose against which have no counterplay.

1- DD ele.
2- Insta invi burst down mesmer.
3- double endure pain rampage warrior.
4- invi burst down thief.
5- 5k crit litch necro.

1) DD Ele gets shots down by: Mantra Mesmer, Marauder Warrior with Rampage, Elixir X Engi with Rampage, anything with high physical damage output given their protection wears off, don’ts tep in an out of ring of fire, it’ll proc blinding ashes and also stack more burning on you, or just ingore it and help your team elsewhere then plus 1 the Ele, play smart.
2) Get away from the clones and anticipate the shatter, you shouldn’t really engage with a Mesmer if you can’t counter pressure or don’t have stunbreaks availeable, also target the mesmer as fast as possible instad of the clones.
3) Wait for the stances to get on CD, then burst it, learn to dodge hammer KD’s, if it goes in rampage kite and juke for 15 seconds, use blinds and weakness to get some damage off, or just Moa the warrior for extra giggles.
4) if you see the backstab or mug hit you just wait until it uses 2-3 skills, if it’s happy trigger or doesn’t wait long enough it’ll run out of energy and be easier to catch, just don’t pop out all your active defenses pointlessly.
5) use LoS, use blind and weakness… pretty much the same counterplay as rampage but easier since it can’t hit if you LoS it, don’t step on the marks, pop swiftness and peel, engage again once the skill goes in CD .

The fact that you don’t know how to counterplay a build doesn’t mean it can’t be done, if you don’t have enough skill to win against x or y build then do the smart thing and go help on teamfights, always try to outnumber your oponents, if you’re standing alone somewhere and are not fighting while your team is wiping 5v4 is a bad call, if the cap you’re fighting in isn’t of your team or worse you’re fighting offpoint and can’t down the enemy player it’s a bad call, try to make things go in your favor even if the situation isn’t so much with you.

If you want to learn how to fight against certain builds then 1v1 a lot, there’s private arneas for that, also keep in mind most of the builds you’re referring to are meta builds which means they’re the best bang for your buck at the intented role, don’t expect to win against them with every build you use, you just won’t and that applies for this or any other game out there it’s nothing surprising or new.

Apolo.5942:

Write down the bullkitten builds you hate to loose against which have no counterplay.

1- DD ele.
2- Insta invi burst down mesmer.
3- double endure pain rampage warrior.
4- invi burst down thief.
5- 5k crit litch necro.

Its just hard to take this seriously, i like where eles are now. I play staff ele and for the first time ever i stalemate a d/d ele. Who ever is better wins over the 3-4 min fight.

3-rampage is all melee now with only 1 range attack. You are telling me dont use any cripple/chill/immoblize/blind/blocks/ anything. Seriously swiftness now with a teleport amkes rampage unusable now since its only 15 sec.

4- thats there role and rangers have sic em. You want the counter bam there it is and when you play in a TEAM people who play other burst builds should be looking for the meser/thief. This is once again a 5 vs 5 TEAM GAME.

5- last if necro lich form is making you mad when thats all power necros have, seriously, seriously, seriously………… seriously, seriously

Now number 2 i agree with but i dont know the mesmer class well enough to talk about there issues. All i know is yesterday on my ele i was getting stunned then hit for 10k hits with them stealthing. On my warrior it was smash my stances and hope they dont dodge/blink/port/invulnerable/distortion. On my guardian or necro i hold out for as long as i can and pray for help with in 3 min.

I like where PvP is at but the class that makes me worry every match is mesmers. If the other team has 2 good mesmers and our mesmer is a average mesmer for the class i pray that were quicker in rotations and better tanks for winning the match.

Apolo.5942:

LunacyPolish.4602:

1. Chill condition. Or just outsustain them (not easy or viable on all builds you might run of course). Moa them and then hit them with burst. Yeah, I’ll give you this one, this is a tough opponent, no apparent weaknesses, but I’ve beaten D/D ellies, and they’ve beaten me, so while it’s hard fight it’s not an impossible one.

Granted when they win, they tend to mop me up in less than 20 seconds, and I fought a D/D on a point for a minute and a half once before finally winning. That doesn’t seem to be right, the fight should last about the same either way. So it probably does need to be tweaked.

2. It’s flavor of the month, nothing you can do about it. At least if they don’t open up on you with that burst you can fight them like always. I run Lock On personally, it helps. Play against the meta.

3. Moa them. Disengage from pointless fight. Try to cap points and then fight the warrior off point so they waste it in a skirmish.

4. Cleave up and pressure the area. It’s fairly predictable what the thief will do, unless they use a lot of stealth to approach you unseen.

5. See 3.

Granted, that’s not a LOT of counterplay against some of these, but it does exist.

Also, 3 and 5 both depend on Elites. The Elite shouldn’t be quite an I win button, but it’s a powerful limited use resource meant to drastically affect the outcome of a fight. It’s not so bad to lose a fight when the other player had to use an elite to cinch it.

Thing is, there’s always going to be a “best”. You’ve just got to deal with it.

So to sum up.
-1, 3 and 5 you need to counter them with an “i win button” of some description.
-2 is unlikelly to be countered if they play it right.
-4 throw aoe blindly and you might have a chance, unless they abuse stealth which is what thiefs are meant to do any way.

I will concede thou that litch is the most fair of the bunch, they hit like a truck, but unlike rampage their access to stability is limited which makes counter play possible.

To sum up again:

1,3 and 5 – Point One: I play as an Engineer. I look at the tools the Engineer has. For other professions, substitute whatever works. If I can think of a counter with a class that’s considered “weak” right now I’m sure anyone else can think of something.

Point two: you’re ignoring everything else I suggested and reducing my response to something less than it was, creating a strawman fallacy.

2. Yet I manage it. Granted I have to take a Trait to do it, but there is counterplay. The fact the counterplay is weak is a different issue besides it not existing.

Look, if the Mesmer is a bandwagoner, I can win because he’s not really a good mesmer player. If it’s a mesmer who’s always been playing mesmer, then yeah, I’m kind of screwed.

4. I do not have AoE blind beyond Flamethrower 5, yet my tactics work. Thieves are predictable. Dodge at the right moment just as the burst comes in, you can practically count it down. Burst incoming in 3, 2, 1…

MM necro bunker duos. Just try to take a point from them, even with one other person, I dare you.

choovanski.5462:

if you think ham/gs has no counterplay, buddy you scrubby

/chuckle

Ark Bladesteele.2943:

MM necro bunker duos. Just try to take a point from them, even with one other person, I dare you.

1 MM you can kill with AoE after a bit of a fight.

2 MM’s just throw an Engi at them for the AoE Moa that destroys their whole build.

meow one twenty.4376:

2 MM’s just throw an Engi at them for the AoE Moa that destroys their whole build.

It does turn hilarious when the Necro dodges the thrown Elixer X and is now a Moa Master. The minions retain their actives when Moa’d, so the Golem can still Charge and the bone minions can still explode.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

meow one twenty.4376:

2 MM’s just throw an Engi at them for the AoE Moa that destroys their whole build.

It does turn hilarious when the Necro dodges the thrown Elixer X and is now a Moa Master. The minions retain their actives when Moa’d, so the Golem can still Charge and the bone minions can still explode.

LOL! I want to make a Moa Farmer Necro just for that.

Your first three are on-point. The second two are an L2P issue. Thieves seem alright at the moment (sorry to thieves if I’m wrong… they seem ok to someone who doesn’t play much thief). Necros need a buff if anything, they are really struggling in this meta. If Lich or Rampage are an issue, bring an Engi with Chocobo Chucker juice (toss X), Kinetic Battery and HGH for the short CD. D/D Ele needs either their damage or survival nerfed, but not both… ANet needs to decide if they are for tanky or offensive play, and so far they are letting them be both.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

meow one twenty.4376:

2 MM’s just throw an Engi at them for the AoE Moa that destroys their whole build.

It does turn hilarious when the Necro dodges the thrown Elixer X and is now a Moa Master. The minions retain their actives when Moa’d, so the Golem can still Charge and the bone minions can still explode.

This part needs to be fixed.

sunnypsyop.3025:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

meow one twenty.4376:

2 MM’s just throw an Engi at them for the AoE Moa that destroys their whole build.

It does turn hilarious when the Necro dodges the thrown Elixer X and is now a Moa Master. The minions retain their actives when Moa’d, so the Golem can still Charge and the bone minions can still explode.

This part needs to be fixed.

Lel. THIS part?

If anything, the part where transformations destroy all summons on necro needs to be fixed.

Op your right there they say there are no roles but there are, balance issues but at this point…. lol

Rygg.6237:

Apolo.5942:

Write down the bullkitten builds you hate to loose against which have no counterplay.

1- DD ele.
2- Insta invi burst down mesmer.
3- double endure pain rampage warrior.
4- invi burst down thief.
5- 5k crit litch necro.

1) DD Ele gets shots down by: Mantra Mesmer, Marauder Warrior with Rampage, Elixir X Engi with Rampage, anything with high physical damage output given their protection wears off, don’ts tep in an out of ring of fire, it’ll proc blinding ashes and also stack more burning on you, or just ingore it and help your team elsewhere then plus 1 the Ele, play smart.
2) Get away from the clones and anticipate the shatter, you shouldn’t really engage with a Mesmer if you can’t counter pressure or don’t have stunbreaks availeable, also target the mesmer as fast as possible instad of the clones.
3) Wait for the stances to get on CD, then burst it, learn to dodge hammer KD’s, if it goes in rampage kite and juke for 15 seconds, use blinds and weakness to get some damage off, or just Moa the warrior for extra giggles.
4) if you see the backstab or mug hit you just wait until it uses 2-3 skills, if it’s happy trigger or doesn’t wait long enough it’ll run out of energy and be easier to catch, just don’t pop out all your active defenses pointlessly.
5) use LoS, use blind and weakness… pretty much the same counterplay as rampage but easier since it can’t hit if you LoS it, don’t step on the marks, pop swiftness and peel, engage again once the skill goes in CD .

The fact that you don’t know how to counterplay a build doesn’t mean it can’t be done, if you don’t have enough skill to win against x or y build then do the smart thing and go help on teamfights, always try to outnumber your oponents, if you’re standing alone somewhere and are not fighting while your team is wiping 5v4 is a bad call, if the cap you’re fighting in isn’t of your team or worse you’re fighting offpoint and can’t down the enemy player it’s a bad call, try to make things go in your favor even if the situation isn’t so much with you.

If you want to learn how to fight against certain builds then 1v1 a lot, there’s private arneas for that, also keep in mind most of the builds you’re referring to are meta builds which means they’re the best bang for your buck at the intented role, don’t expect to win against them with every build you use, you just won’t and that applies for this or any other game out there it’s nothing surprising or new.

+1 Excellent advice. All of what you said works well. Also, get used to peeling off fights that seem hopeless. This is a very good skill to use, and any class can do it

Apolo.5942:

5- 5k crit litch necro.

People actually let that slow moving hand touch them?