Guild Wars 2

Just add 300 vitality to the Honor line (as a minor?) and make bunkerguard a thing again without makeing it op. Dont let this build die. Its a actually a build that promotes healty gameplay by allowing allies to go more offensive. Without dedicated support build we will go back to a 4 cele + 1 marauder meta. And for my part, i didnt enjoy those 4ele+thief games

I think it’s finally becoming obvious to the rest of the community who A.Net has been balancing the game around…

lilz shorty.1879:

Chaith.8256:

glaphen.5230:

The vitality does not increase sustain in the slightest. The 5.5k healths only benefits are once a fight, possible burst protection if currently above normal max health and they can’t take it away during the CC, increased downed health but weaker to healing skills while downed, Necromancer life force. Could be a problem of too many bruisers that can’t actually burst quickly and the meta didn’t adapt.

You say vitality does not increase sustain in the slightest, this is true, but only in a picky and disingenuous way. When I say ‘increases sustain’ I mean increases their up-time to stay alive on point under high pressure. This is because your personal survivability increases by decreasing the threat of getting caught out by immobilize, condition overload, multiple attackers.

If you survive that immobilize combo and get to your next heal rotation, you’ve added an insane amount of up-time on that point, against enemies exhausted of their cooldowns. Essentially the holes in your defensive cooldown rotation where you’re vulnerable to being downed get erased. Plug the holes, survive indefinitely against things which you never could survive with a much lower health pool.

Other builds are forced to give up the point and kite in order to cope with this extra pressure, to allow their actual sustain to work properly.

I encourage you to play Clerics Bunker Guardian (No vitality stat) without Force of Will, and then enjoy then toggle Force of Will on, and tell me how your life changes with 3,000 more health to buffer all those defensive cooldowns.

All I see is you really complaining about bunker classes being bunker/support when that is what they are supposed to do. Hybrid classes shouldn’t be able to do 75% of what they’ve been doing for the last year and a half, yet you have the audacity to complain about bunkers being bunkery?

Lmao? I can’t believe this. They give support classes to help sustain themselves in this power creep and you QQ. Have you seen scrapper sustain? I have no words for this.

That last statement made me laugh irl.

Anet needs to take a serious look at balancing the issue with the hybrid sustain and stop catering to their favorites.

Tell him to respawn then… Tired of all the dead people making my bosses harder for no reason!

It really is digusting how HoT destroyed this games balance. EVERY class has at least 1 viable spec, with multiple classes having more than one viable spec. Teams were not forced into taking 4 cele sustain and could syngergize their extreme damage with bunker healers.

Dahkeus.8243:

lilz shorty.1879:

Chaith.8256:

glaphen.5230:

The vitality does not increase sustain in the slightest. The 5.5k healths only benefits are once a fight, possible burst protection if currently above normal max health and they can’t take it away during the CC, increased downed health but weaker to healing skills while downed, Necromancer life force. Could be a problem of too many bruisers that can’t actually burst quickly and the meta didn’t adapt.

You say vitality does not increase sustain in the slightest, this is true, but only in a picky and disingenuous way. When I say ‘increases sustain’ I mean increases their up-time to stay alive on point under high pressure. This is because your personal survivability increases by decreasing the threat of getting caught out by immobilize, condition overload, multiple attackers.

If you survive that immobilize combo and get to your next heal rotation, you’ve added an insane amount of up-time on that point, against enemies exhausted of their cooldowns. Essentially the holes in your defensive cooldown rotation where you’re vulnerable to being downed get erased. Plug the holes, survive indefinitely against things which you never could survive with a much lower health pool.

Other builds are forced to give up the point and kite in order to cope with this extra pressure, to allow their actual sustain to work properly.

I encourage you to play Clerics Bunker Guardian (No vitality stat) without Force of Will, and then enjoy then toggle Force of Will on, and tell me how your life changes with 3,000 more health to buffer all those defensive cooldowns.

All I see is you really complaining about bunker classes being bunker/support when that is what they are supposed to do. Hybrid classes shouldn’t be able to do 75% of what they’ve been doing for the last year and a half, yet you have the audacity to complain about bunkers being bunkery?

Lmao? I can’t believe this. They give support classes to help sustain themselves in this power creep and you QQ. Have you seen scrapper sustain? I have no words for this.

That last statement made me laugh irl.

Your statement makes me laugh irl. The fact you can’t understand that scrapper sustain is beyond crazy yet he complains about a bunker being bunky is ludicrous.

I want everyone reading chaith’s posts to keep in mind that he plays for abjured and a lot of money is on the line. He plays a no bunker skirmish comp which utilizes no bunker, so this amulet is only a hinderence to him. In essence their comp was extremely buffed with the removal of the amulet while other teams who have played with people in the bunker role have fallen behind.

Just saying again that my biggest issue with this change is that so many builds that try to support are being pushed into celestial because most amulets like cleric and magi don’t have the right allocation of stats on most classes to survive in this meta compared to celestial, even though celestial has half as much healing power. To me, thats just not fun or interesting. Where’s our 4-stat zealot amulet with vitality? Why did they add useless horribad condi amulets like vipers when it was something that no one needed or wanted?

Since celestial is only taken to have a higher health pool, a little toughness, and some healing power it is terrible for support, only good for the occasional res (which you will still need an invuln for

lilz shorty.1879:

Dahkeus.8243:

lilz shorty.1879:

Chaith.8256:

glaphen.5230:

The vitality does not increase sustain in the slightest. The 5.5k healths only benefits are once a fight, possible burst protection if currently above normal max health and they can’t take it away during the CC, increased downed health but weaker to healing skills while downed, Necromancer life force. Could be a problem of too many bruisers that can’t actually burst quickly and the meta didn’t adapt.

You say vitality does not increase sustain in the slightest, this is true, but only in a picky and disingenuous way. When I say ‘increases sustain’ I mean increases their up-time to stay alive on point under high pressure. This is because your personal survivability increases by decreasing the threat of getting caught out by immobilize, condition overload, multiple attackers.

If you survive that immobilize combo and get to your next heal rotation, you’ve added an insane amount of up-time on that point, against enemies exhausted of their cooldowns. Essentially the holes in your defensive cooldown rotation where you’re vulnerable to being downed get erased. Plug the holes, survive indefinitely against things which you never could survive with a much lower health pool.

Other builds are forced to give up the point and kite in order to cope with this extra pressure, to allow their actual sustain to work properly.

I encourage you to play Clerics Bunker Guardian (No vitality stat) without Force of Will, and then enjoy then toggle Force of Will on, and tell me how your life changes with 3,000 more health to buffer all those defensive cooldowns.

All I see is you really complaining about bunker classes being bunker/support when that is what they are supposed to do. Hybrid classes shouldn’t be able to do 75% of what they’ve been doing for the last year and a half, yet you have the audacity to complain about bunkers being bunkery?

Lmao? I can’t believe this. They give support classes to help sustain themselves in this power creep and you QQ. Have you seen scrapper sustain? I have no words for this.

That last statement made me laugh irl.

Your statement makes me laugh irl. The fact you can’t understand that scrapper sustain is beyond crazy yet he complains about a bunker being bunky is ludicrous.

Ok, that’s not what I’m laughing about. I’m laughing because you’re asking one of the most prominent engineer players in high end tournaments if he’s seen Scrapper sustain.

And yes, engi sustain was in need of adjustment, which even Chaith has acknowledged (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Adaptive-Armor-and-HGH-just-nerfed/first#post5689548).

This level of uproar over losing the 1-2-3 I 1v3’d Amulet with 560 dead stats, delicious.

Cele Scrapper sustain indeed dumb, using Minstrels and Inventions over Firearms I could roll around and hold a point against 2 Nuclear bombs. I should have streamed it.

Everyone seems so settled in and confident that the future meta will be nothing but Celestial, we’ll see how Marauder Revenant and Carrion Chill Reaper being so bloody amazing will affect comps.

Chaith.8256:

This level of uproar over losing the 1-2-3 I 1v3’d Amulet with 560 dead stats, delicious.

Cele Scrapper sustain indeed dumb, using Minstrels and Inventions over Firearms I could roll around and hold a point against 2 Nuclear bombs. I should have streamed it.

Everyone seems so settled in and confident that the future meta will be nothing but Celestial, we’ll see how Marauder Revenant and Carrion Chill Reaper being so bloody amazing will affect comps.

And Engineer could always do the same thing with Cleric’s, Engineer has some of the best self healing in the game of any bunkers and Scrapper only amplified that.

Chaith.8256:

This level of uproar over losing the 1-2-3 I 1v3’d Amulet with 560 dead stats, delicious.

Cele Scrapper sustain indeed dumb, using Minstrels and Inventions over Firearms I could roll around and hold a point against 2 Nuclear bombs. I should have streamed it.

Everyone seems so settled in and confident that the future meta will be nothing but Celestial, we’ll see how Marauder Revenant and Carrion Chill Reaper being so bloody amazing will affect comps.

Chaith, the point of this thread is that without more health, support classes like guard are dead. Do you agree with this statement? Or would you like to go on about your personal hatred with minstrel amulet?

Lol Chaith just lol….
We’ve played with silly bruisers for over 2 years where teams were forced to take 2-4 of them just to compete.
It’s time for a shift in playstyle and to adapt.
The abjurred has played nothing but bruisers/dps so ofc you’re trying to defend the broken effect of what bruisers impose on this game as well

So much ad hominem going on here.

Anyone care to actually point out any flaw in the argument against the Minstrel amulet or should we all just keep conspiring against other people with vague threats of bias?

edit Jeeze…no wonder high end players rarely post here. People really do want to keep this as the crying grounds for people who want excuses for their own failures.

^
if minstrel druid was still a thing i would expect to see abjured test it at least. when I fought the build all i could think of is ‘i want this ranger on my team’. there is a high chance druid would have become a must have class like ele & theif used to be.

abjured running druid is something i could easily see. not so much now, as minstrel was basically built for druid & formed the backbone of the class.

Chaith has no right to complain about healthy gameplay. The fact bruiser classes could win games with no (real) support, not shoutbow because that was a joke, for years while dishing out that much damage is dumb. Cele has been Ebola for engis and Eles for years but it never was removed.

The point of this thread is we’ve wanted more vitality for so long as a bunker guard as well as ways to help mitigate damage to hinder the power creep. We finally get something to help in that regard and it’s gone. But people like chaith only continue to show their hate toward true support/bunker classes. Maybe if you didn’t play kitten cele/soldiers for the last year you could maybe kill something that was that bunky.

They should do the same to Celestial. Either heavy nerf or outright remove. It will be healthy for the game.

Chaith.8256:

lilz shorty.1879:

Chaith has no right to complain about healthy gameplay.

But people like chaith only continue to show their hate toward true support/bunker classes. Maybe if you didn’t play kitten cele/soldiers for the last year you could maybe kill something that was that bunky.

Well I don’t wanna say you’re wrong but I played Marauder Nade roamer from core specs up until WTS. Loved my Berserker static discharge pre-core specs, too. Unfortunately for my Forum Lord persona, I do care about winning, and that requires me practice the good builds. Not sorry.

But yeah totally, this is all about the Bunker Guardian, kappa. Of course guys, that’s why there’s a page of how Chaith is a mean guy for not appreciating 1v3 playstyles.

No matter what you guys think, the forum squabbles don’t have much influence on the meta. Probably try adapting to the meta, if you can.

It has been out bunker guadian until someone started trying to justify the amulets removal because of Druids, but it seems like you forgot already. And no I did not forget you played marauder either.

Chaith you’ve always hated support/bunker classes and its obvious even when you stream. The amount of passive bm that comes out of your mouth towards anything that’s supportive but not a bruiser, your frustration is very apparent. Yet you came in trying to say that because a bunker or bunker Druid can’t be killed 1v3 by bruiser classes, it’s justified? LOOOL? I need to say nothing else because I’ve stated my two cents. Oh and trying to adapt? We can’t argue for our own class or correct ArenaNet in their mistake without you trying to passively bm on forums now too because we defended our class? Lol I wouldn’t expect nothing less.

Defending his bruiser comp cuz threaten by bunk/glass onexD
Such bias

Lol its quite funny how the bruiser meta has shifted peoples mentality as far as conquest is concerned.

Before, the game didn’t have more than one support because only was support was needed to help sustain the 4 dps. The game was also more catered towards team fights. This was until bruiser builds came around and the 3 point game became the go to strat. To do this effectively, you essentially had to almost get rid of the support/full dps and go with more bruiser classes that can sustain on their own.

This game-play led to the game-mode straying away from team fights but skirmishes.

So since bunker classes had an ammy to help them self-sustain against even the OP bruiser classes and power creep, people QQ and don’t realize maybe they should go back to full dps and focus on team fights, rather then skirmishes to maybe kill these support/bunker builds.

Chaith, the one time you guys ran 3 zerker (until nos swapped to soldier + plagued), was the only time I saw your team sortve stray away from the bruiser meta where team fights were the focus and open engagements. But it seems like that was short lived and that was the only time people thoroughly enjoyed watching ESL.

My point is, if people are realizing they can’t push far or be a 1v1 hero because they cant kill things, the mentality needs to shift back to a team fight oriented meta where the team that actually has that one support role + dps wins it by better coordination. But everyone wants to keep playing the typical bruiser meta which is why the 3 point meta even strives.

But that seems to be to hard for people to understand or rather, what people dislike because they rather have its cake and eat it, aka…doing everything too well.

lilz shorty.1879:

Chaith, the one time you guys ran 3 zerker (until nos swapped to soldier + plagued), was the only time I saw your team sortve stray away from the bruiser meta where team fights were the focus and open engagements. But it seems like that was short lived and that was the only time people thoroughly enjoyed watching ESL.

We enjoyed the hell out of that too. I always bring up in team discussion the desire to theorycraft another comp like that, but it always comes down to the fact that there’s not enough pressure in the game compared to people’s defensive cooldowns for it to be reliable.

Also Readymade, my condolences. But since the Minstrels amulet is no longer a part of the game, this is probably a sign from ArenaNet you should play something with at least an average mechanical skill ceiling.

Well on the other hand, almost all of the abjured’s builds from last ESL were nerfed, tempest was the only one that wasn’t nerfed. I mean blighters boon, adaptive armor/hgh and revenant mobility and sustain being a bit to a lot weaker certainly means that their comp isn’t being 100% biased from the devs as much as some people think, but that’s just my perspective as a filthy casual.

nearlight.3064:

Well on the other hand, almost all of the abjured’s builds from last ESL were nerfed, tempest was the only one that wasn’t nerfed. I mean blighters boon, adaptive armor/hgh and revenant mobility and sustain being a bit to a lot weaker certainly means that their comp isn’t being 100% biased from the devs as much as some people think, but that’s just my perspective as a filthy casual.

believing that anet are balancing PvP around wanting the abjured to win every tournament is insane. it’s just obviously not the case. if it was, then why was the blighters boon double glint rev synergy removed? Nos was an immortal God with that.

Back to the subject on hand, guard needs more health (around 300 more vitality) as well as druid. If that comes from am amulet or buffs to the classes themselves it needs to be done or this game will forever be a bruiser game where everyone smashes buttons with no coordination or strategy.

Firebird.8324:

Back to the subject on hand, guard needs more health (around 300 more vitality) as well as druid. If that comes from am amulet or buffs to the classes themselves it needs to be done or this game will forever be a bruiser game where everyone smashes buttons with no coordination or strategy.

^ This. We cannot stress this enough. And boon duration also needs to be baseline for the classes as well.

Man all we need now is yung Mooobs in here to join in on all the guardian mains asking for buffs

Firebird.8324:

Back to the subject on hand, guard needs more health (around 300 more vitality) as well as druid. If that comes from am amulet or buffs to the classes themselves it needs to be done or this game will forever be a bruiser game where everyone smashes buttons with no coordination or strategy.

^This. Guardians have this problem and 300 vit could give a better chance in the meta.

But this topic is starting to be not healthy with people attacking Five Gauge.
In the same topic we have Radioactive that likes bunker comps. Apex prime that like more team fight dps. Abjured with your builds that adapt to everything.

And me personally like to play 3 DPS in my team but unfortunately its not working now. We need to play the game.

choovanski.5462:

nearlight.3064:

Well on the other hand, almost all of the abjured’s builds from last ESL were nerfed, tempest was the only one that wasn’t nerfed. I mean blighters boon, adaptive armor/hgh and revenant mobility and sustain being a bit to a lot weaker certainly means that their comp isn’t being 100% biased from the devs as much as some people think, but that’s just my perspective as a filthy casual.

believing that anet are balancing PvP around wanting the abjured to win every tournament is insane. it’s just obviously not the case. if it was, then why was the blighters boon double glint rev synergy removed? Nos was an immortal God with that.

Quiet pleb, I’m Abjured and what I say goes.

Just kidding. It’s a pretty paranoid thought eh. Haha. Nobody talks about Blighters Boon synergies, Adaptive Armor, HgH. And that’s fine, tbh. Nos has adapted quite a bit already.

Blighter’s Boon? Because it made Reaper an unkillable DPS tank in all game modes (Raids, WvW, etc), that’s why it was nerfed, PvP was probably the spot it was least broken tbh.

Chaith.8256:

My agenda is to play GW2 in a way that whether it’s me or the enemy, there is going to be a conclusion to a good amount of fights. I absolutely do have a dislike for slow paced games where there are very few kills. Give me a high damage slug fest any day.

I’m definitely not alone on this either. Some just either don’t know the cancer it brings, or play Bunker Guard.

You mean like in WTS where you just suicided off tanks on all nodes and won by stalling out the games because all your builds had to be 1v2ed, like Minstrel’s Druids? Ohhhhhhhh

But wait, Minstrels Druid/Guardian couldn’t even kill people or decap nodes 1v1

Problem isn’t minstrels the problem is the power creep. I hope ANET realize they over buffed everyone but warriors and made a big mistake. I don’t mind them deleting the amulet but I also think they need to delete all the others and nerf everyone and balance the game.

Warlord.9074:

Problem isn’t minstrels the problem is the power creep. I hope ANET realize they over buffed everyone but warriors and made a big mistake. I don’t mind them deleting the amulet but I also think they need to delete all the others and nerf everyone and balance the game.

Minstrels was a good fit for the power creep meta too because minstrel amulet guards/eles/druids could keep people alive. Without support, everyone needs to be able to do damage and have self sustain which is simply not the case for all classes.

What it comes right down to ArenaNet, is I enjoy playing bunker guard and supporting my group in team fights, but that is gone, either give us something or I’ll simply become another one of the million Dragonhunters pew pewing people.

infantrydiv.1620:

You mean like in WTS where you just suicided off tanks on all nodes and won by stalling out the games because all your builds had to be 1v2ed, like Minstrel’s Druids? Ohhhhhhhh

But wait, Minstrels Druid/Guardian couldn’t even kill people or decap nodes 1v1

There is a difference between playing for fun vs playing competitively. What he may actually like to play may not be what he plays in tournaments.

if you think about it: Bunker guard was the only viable non-HoT spec out there. Every other class plays with their new spezialisation. So we shouldve seen it coming. They removed minstrel so you guys buy HoT

As one of the few warriors left I always built my comp around bunker guards to provide me with everything I lack. I know most classes these days have almost no need for a bunker, reaper, rev, engi, mes, thief, ranger…. every class but warrior. To take the bunker guard out of the game makes it nearly impossible to build a stainable warrior! I’m aware that warrior isn’t allowed a real specialization for reasons unknown but to take the only thing that even made it decently useable in mid fight just isn’t right. Warriors can’t 1v1, hardly 2v2 and the only area it somewhat shined was paired on point with a bunker guard. The removal of this ammy effects far more than a single class.

Abjured doesn’t run with guardians so don’t expect them to sympathize with the problems of support guards, IMO, the most noble and unselfish of all builds atm.

I must say It was quite respectable for someone to take on that role, it can have such an impact on the game with of course the lacking of running around with your head chopped off on zerker which most would agree is far more fun. To put everything fourth on supporting others is a hard thing to do and that kind of mentality could go a long way.

Thunderbird.4298:

As one of the few warriors left I always built my comp around bunker guards to provide me with everything I lack. I know most classes these days have almost no need for a bunker, reaper, rev, engi, mes, thief, ranger…. every class but warrior. To take the bunker guard out of the game makes it nearly impossible to build a stainable warrior! I’m aware that warrior isn’t allowed a real specialization for reasons unknown but to take the only thing that even made it decently useable in mid fight just isn’t right. Warriors can’t 1v1, hardly 2v2 and the only area it somewhat shined was paired on point with a bunker guard. The removal of this ammy effects far more than a single class.

Of course, it’s a ripple effect.

And I’m tired of people bashing bunkers. If a bunker keeps you off point, you RUN AWAY that’s what they’re supposed to. He’s beaten you. Swallow your pride and go to the next one! That’s what I do! Don’t worry, he’s not coming after you he has to guard the point! Relax. If you keep trying, you end up losing time for the team and game.

Now, think. The point of the game is to hold…points! So let’s say you face 3 bunkers, that means your teams HAVE to learn to spike. There’s no way around it. It seems some people don’t like to get spiked around here.

It’s kind of interesting to read this thread and get a sort of peak behind the scenes at the amount of Abjured paranoia that exists within some of the other top teams. But Chaith made at the start of the thread what I consider to be the most rational complaint about the Minstrel Amulet; that it had the potential to dramatically slow games down. It’s the ultimate boring amulet.

Game pacing is already a huge issue for this game. It’s boring enough to watch a bunch of celestial amy bruisers stall points but at least sometimes things die. With minstrel guards and druids there will be fights where nothing much happens for several minutes at a time. There may be several high level games that go to timer with low scores. It won’t be fun to watch and it will make the tournaments take longer.

It’s also not really that much fun to try to fight them on a daily solo q basis but who cares about that right?

Israel.7056:

It’s kind of interesting to read this thread and get a sort of peak behind the scenes at the amount of Abjured paranoia that exists within some of the other top teams. But Chaith made at the start of the thread what I consider to be the most rational complaint about the Minstrel Amulet; that it had the potential to dramatically slow games down. It’s the ultimate boring amulet.

Game pacing is already a huge issue for this game. It’s boring enough to watch a bunch of celestial amy bruisers stall points but at least sometimes things die. With minstrel guards and druids there will be fights where nothing much happens for several minutes at a time. There may be several high level games that go to timer with low scores. It won’t be fun to watch and it will make the tournaments take longer.

It’s also not really that much fun to try to fight them on a daily solo q basis but who cares about that right?

So what are you saying? Because you think a certain style of game play is boring certain builds are going right out the window? I guess if I want to play guardian i have to play Dragon Hunter? That’s your opinion not everyones.

@Israel

Keeping minstrel would actually speed up games in the long run. By taking that one extreme support or bunker build you can then run a much glassier setup. 1 minstrel 3 zerk and 1 bruiser would become a viable comp, which results in much more burst play and exciting res situations that get the audience on the edge of their seat. You are complaining about slow boring games, which is exactly what the cele meta produces. Noone wants to watch a bunch of wet noodles flopping arond

From the sheer amount of posts on this thread im fairly certain its clear what the majority of the vocal pvp community wants

Israel.7056:

It’s kind of interesting to read this thread and get a sort of peak behind the scenes at the amount of Abjured paranoia that exists within some of the other top teams. But Chaith made at the start of the thread what I consider to be the most rational complaint about the Minstrel Amulet; that it had the potential to dramatically slow games down. It’s the ultimate boring amulet.

Game pacing is already a huge issue for this game. It’s boring enough to watch a bunch of celestial amy bruisers stall points but at least sometimes things die. With minstrel guards and druids there will be fights where nothing much happens for several minutes at a time. There may be several high level games that go to timer with low scores. It won’t be fun to watch and it will make the tournaments take longer.

It’s also not really that much fun to try to fight them on a daily solo q basis but who cares about that right?

At the present time, it is impossible to make a bunker build that can stand on point, take hits, heal allies, clear conditions, provide stability, and rez people because of the enormous powercreep caused by things like my MARUDER dragon hunter that deals over a million damage in queues.

What this is going to dissolve into is tanky as kitten scrapper builds, marauder DH, carrion/celestial/soldier reapers, soldier/maruder revenents, etc. Meaning every team will be just about the same with very little creative differences. Trust me when I say it was even more boring to watch 2eles/mes teef/sig necro as basically every comp then watch minstrel groups fight.

Bunker guard has never, ever, been over powered, in fact, it has been underpowered ever since the highest health pool they could reasonably achieve was 13k, as of right now it is completely worthless. It cannot hold point, it cannot rez people, it cannot heal enough, it is utterly pathetic.

Guardian has many traits and utilities that will never see the light of day if they don’t fix this. No one will run honor unless they are making strange, non meta, symbol builds. No one will one any shouts, no one will touch altruistic healing, it will come down to Guardians ONLY being able to play Dragonhunter and ONLY being able to switch their non-long bow weapon between sword/focus and greatsword, and maybe switch up a utility or two. This will become the diversity of Guardian, or, who am I kidding? Dragon hunter (no one will identify themselves as just a “Guardian” in the near future, always medi dragonhunter).

Don’t get me wrong though, if any anet devs are actually reading this, this is NOT like berserker which needs a total rework to be even close to viable, several solutions exist to fix the bunker guardian problem.

you could:
1) add to a minor trait in honor the 300 vitality that is currently in the grandmaster
2) bring back minstrel (this will fix druid as well)
3) make a sigil with 300 vitality (I’d give up intel for it)
4) up the health tier of guardian to ranger health level

Either look into some of those suggestions or delete anything reminiscent of support and rename the entire class Dragonhunter. IMO guardians should GUARD people, not just poke them with arrows all day.

2 and a half pages of people who want minstrel back … And then there is chaith

Guard.6751:

I think it’s finally becoming obvious to the rest of the community who A.Net has been balancing the game around…

Pretty much this, it’s a marketing gimmick for A.net, they been forcing “gw2 Esports” down people’s throats for a while now trying to force a scene to happen.

There is hardly any teams to even make the scene competitive, so these “pro players” words don’t hold much weight IMO.

Esports has always been a community grown scene not a company trying to force it on their player base for that marketing $$$.

They remove this ammy and leave cele ammy in for the same boring builds we been using the past year or so. Really feels like they listen to the minority rather than what the majority has been suggesting for years.

brannigan.9831:

Israel.7056:

It’s kind of interesting to read this thread and get a sort of peak behind the scenes at the amount of Abjured paranoia that exists within some of the other top teams. But Chaith made at the start of the thread what I consider to be the most rational complaint about the Minstrel Amulet; that it had the potential to dramatically slow games down. It’s the ultimate boring amulet.

Game pacing is already a huge issue for this game. It’s boring enough to watch a bunch of celestial amy bruisers stall points but at least sometimes things die. With minstrel guards and druids there will be fights where nothing much happens for several minutes at a time. There may be several high level games that go to timer with low scores. It won’t be fun to watch and it will make the tournaments take longer.

It’s also not really that much fun to try to fight them on a daily solo q basis but who cares about that right?

So what are you saying? Because you think a certain style of game play is boring certain builds are going right out the window? I guess if I want to play guardian i have to play Dragon Hunter? That’s your opinion not everyones.

What I’m saying is that I think Chaith was right and that Minstrel amulet made for a more boring and frustrating viewing/playing experience.

You can play whatever you want but I think Dragon Hunter is a lot of fun to play.

The boring to play argument is kind of invalid here. Having celestial builds for a better part of 2 years has also been boring.

Firebird.8324:

Israel.7056:

It’s kind of interesting to read this thread and get a sort of peak behind the scenes at the amount of Abjured paranoia that exists within some of the other top teams. But Chaith made at the start of the thread what I consider to be the most rational complaint about the Minstrel Amulet; that it had the potential to dramatically slow games down. It’s the ultimate boring amulet.

Game pacing is already a huge issue for this game. It’s boring enough to watch a bunch of celestial amy bruisers stall points but at least sometimes things die. With minstrel guards and druids there will be fights where nothing much happens for several minutes at a time. There may be several high level games that go to timer with low scores. It won’t be fun to watch and it will make the tournaments take longer.

It’s also not really that much fun to try to fight them on a daily solo q basis but who cares about that right?

What this is going to dissolve into is tanky as kitten scrapper builds, marauder DH, carrion/celestial/soldier reapers, soldier/maruder revenents, etc. Meaning every team will be just about the same with very little creative differences. Trust me when I say it was even more boring to watch 2eles/mes teef/sig necro as basically every comp then watch minstrel groups fight.

If you guys started beating Abjured with a minstrel druid/guard bunker comp then everyone would start running that comp.

If Abjured decides to run double revenant then I’m sure lots of teams will be running double revenant within the month.

People are always going to copy teams like Radioactive and Abjured. Low/mid tier players are always going to try to emulate the players above them that they respect. It makes sense to try to learn from one’s betters.

I can tell that playing a really tanky support bunker guard means a lot to you but do you really not have fun playing Marauder DH?