Guild Wars 2

Mesmer:
Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes

Guardian:
Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

I think Arenanet should redo some of these descriptions because they are both off. The top one should read something like:
Mesmer:
Mesmers are magical tanks who wield countless evades as a shield. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and annoy their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor by boring their enemies to death.

the second one:
Guardian:
Guardians are devoted fighters who smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their Trueshots. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfish trappers who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to one-shot their enemies to achieve victory.

I want bunker guards to bunk again and mesmers to mesmerize again, that is all.

We get it. Bunk mes is boring to fight against. We’re all in agreement there.

Well, all the descriptions are kinda wrong nowadays.
Another example:
Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowstepping to surprise and to get close to their target. They’re deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor.

Deadly in 1vs1…

At least the description for Revs is still correct:
Revenants channel the power of the Mists. As a soldier profession, revenants wear heavy armor. The revenant profession is available to players who have purchased the Heart of Thorns expansion.

I agree. A meta where Guards are Burst and Mesmers are Bunker just doesn’t make sense thematically, and if Anet still holds their own profession design philosophies to be true (which was posted a few times by the Devs themselves) then the current meta represents a colossal design failure.

I wanna play Bunker.

Anything really.

After 4k games on bunker guard, the april 2014 patches making DD ele better than us (for damage pressure) did change a lot my POV.

Give me any bunker build that work (to rez and stomp with survivability) and I will use it.

A real balanced game would give a workable bunker build at high level on all classes.

Stop trying to make all bunkers nerfed to the ground. Another build will rise up anyway.

YES! 100% YES! The Guardian is supposed to guard and protect allies. That is what us guards were created to do. Not this trapper bull kitten. Someday, I will be able to bunk in ranked Que again. Someday

A-net doesn’t care they know a bunch of these elite are op but instead of fixing them promptly they are making us have to deal with them for about 4 months or whatever is it from late October until Februaryish.

Elite specs are meant to change the flavor of the classes. The description given above are fairly true for guardian and mesmer, not for DH and chrono.

" chronomancers can share alacrity with allies in limited situations, making them an incredibly powerful ally to have in any party." (HoT website specialization description)

sounds reasonable enough. On the other hand, DH was build to be a more selfish variant of guardian.

Bunker guard would still be a thing if not for the power creep. Chronobunker is fairly weak on the heal support side (hence why tempest is used in the rev+chrono teams). Also its boon generation is low (but it can multiply them fairly well). Bunker guard does that well, but cannot sustain the fight well enough, not to mention that tempest just does it better.

At the end, bunker guard and chronobunker are not competing for the same spot. Bunker guard and tempest are.

Firebird.8324:

Mesmer:
Mesmers are magical duelists who wield deception as a weapon. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and distract their foes, mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor and their opponents can’t believe their eyes

Guardian:
Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.

I think Arenanet should redo some of these descriptions because they are both off. The top one should read something like:
Chronomancer:
Chronomancers are magical tanks who wield countless evades as a shield. Using powerful illusions, clones, and phantasmal magic to confuse and annoy their foes. Chronomancers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor by boring their enemies to death.

the second one:
Dragon Hunter:
Dragon Hunters are devoted fighters who smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their Trueshots. True dragon hunters are brilliant tacticians and selfish trappers who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to one-shot their enemies to achieve victory.

I want bunker guards to bunk again and mesmers to mesmerize again, that is all.

Hey I love your descriptions as a matter of fact except I made small changes to the quote above in bold to make it correct.

The point is a Mesmer still can’t tank, and just because at the moment no one has found a Mesmer build that can put out the same burst as a DH doesn’t mean it isn’t still a burst class. And the same for Guard, Guard is till a bunk class but no one has figured out a build quite as good as a Chrono.
Hope that helps and don’t forget it is simply a matter of finding the build. No one realised Chrono bunker was best for 5-6 weeks.

Firebird.8324:

mesmers make sure every fight is balanced in their favor

Countless

Arutha.9874:

The point is a Mesmer still can’t tank, and just because at the moment no one has found a Mesmer build that can put out the same burst as a DH doesn’t mean it isn’t still a burst class.

the problem is Anet is so bad at pvp balance that rarely does a class/build of the same role that can co-exist in a meta. Thief was the go-to DPS class due to their stealth, mobility and damage capabilities, and that pushed out other classes like Mesmers, Necros and rangers before HOT expansion. ANet’s vision of Chronomancer role directly contributed to this current bunker meta. But if u take that away, u make an elite specialization total useless. There’s no role that CHrono mesmer can fill because there are better burst DPS class/build out there.

What happens if you bunk as a Guardian in ranked Que these days

Silverkey.2078:

Elite specs are meant to change the flavor of the classes. The description given above are fairly true for guardian and mesmer, not for DH and chrono.

" chronomancers can share alacrity with allies in limited situations, making them an incredibly powerful ally to have in any party." (HoT website specialization description)

sounds reasonable enough. On the other hand, DH was build to be a more selfish variant of guardian.

Bunker guard would still be a thing if not for the power creep. Chronobunker is fairly weak on the heal support side (hence why tempest is used in the rev+chrono teams). Also its boon generation is low (but it can multiply them fairly well). Bunker guard does that well, but cannot sustain the fight well enough, not to mention that tempest just does it better.

At the end, bunker guard and chronobunker are not competing for the same spot. Bunker guard and tempest are.

You do make an excellent point; however, I would counter by saying that nowhere in the description does it mention Chronomancer being used only for the attributes of being incredibly tanky and having the ability to pick up almost any revive.

I would argue that Chronomancer was designed to be a hybrid type of class, where the normal mesmer focuses almost entirely on damage, Chronomancer mixes and matches damage and team damage support (through alacrity), it is supposed to help facilitate team damage by holding people down with gravity well, making back to back time warps/moas, not simply standing on a point drinking a cup of coffee.

Also, isn’t it weird that the two tankiest classes in the game wear cloth? I mean a mesmer and a elementalist holding off multiple foes and supporting there allies with such little armor? I just think it’s strange how Anet comes up with these things…

rchu.8945:

Arutha.9874:

The point is a Mesmer still can’t tank, and just because at the moment no one has found a Mesmer build that can put out the same burst as a DH doesn’t mean it isn’t still a burst class.

the problem is Anet is so bad at pvp balance that rarely does a class/build of the same role that can co-exist in a meta. Thief was the go-to DPS class due to their stealth, mobility and damage capabilities, and that pushed out other classes like Mesmers, Necros and rangers before HOT expansion. ANet’s vision of Chronomancer role directly contributed to this current bunker meta. But if u take that away, u make an elite specialization total useless. There’s no role that CHrono mesmer can fill because there are better burst DPS class/build out there.

To be honest that is more of a greed problem than a balance problem. Ofcourse the community chooses the best of the best if only 1% better because it is easy to change classes due to PvP scaling. So in that way it is more like Overwatch than LoL or Dota.
The only thing they don’t do too much is “clear counters” the only counter is practice, eg. DH being completely out of meta now.

Browrain.7346:

We get it. Bunk mes is boring to fight against. We’re all in agreement there.

Everyone agrees except Anet

Firebird.8324:

Also, isn’t it weird that the two tankiest classes in the game wear cloth? I mean a mesmer and a elementalist holding off multiple foes and supporting there allies with such little armor? I just think it’s strange how Anet comes up with these things…

You’re right, because this game is super realistic……

Trigr.6481:

Firebird.8324:

Also, isn’t it weird that the two tankiest classes in the game wear cloth? I mean a mesmer and a elementalist holding off multiple foes and supporting there allies with such little armor? I just think it’s strange how Anet comes up with these things…

You’re right, because this game is super realistic……

Assuming you’re pulling the “it’s a world with magic and dragons so realistic” argument, I refer you to the concept of Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

Essentially, fictional works don’t have to be realistic, they just have to be internally consistent. Magic isn’t realistic, but most fictional works handle it consistently. On the other hand, if people running around in dresses are better protected than people in heavy metal armour, the question becomes why heavy armour exists at all.

But we digress.

Embolism.8106:

Trigr.6481:

Firebird.8324:

Also, isn’t it weird that the two tankiest classes in the game wear cloth? I mean a mesmer and a elementalist holding off multiple foes and supporting there allies with such little armor? I just think it’s strange how Anet comes up with these things…

You’re right, because this game is super realistic……

Assuming you’re pulling the “it’s a world with magic and dragons so realistic” argument, I refer you to the concept of Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

Essentially, fictional works don’t have to be realistic, they just have to be internally consistent. Magic isn’t realistic, but most fictional works handle it consistently. On the other hand, if people running around in dresses are better protected than people in heavy metal armour, the question becomes why heavy armour exists at all.

But we digress.

1. shrekt by the massive logic that is this guy^^

Embolism.8106:

Trigr.6481:

Firebird.8324:

Also, isn’t it weird that the two tankiest classes in the game wear cloth? I mean a mesmer and a elementalist holding off multiple foes and supporting there allies with such little armor? I just think it’s strange how Anet comes up with these things…

You’re right, because this game is super realistic……

Assuming you’re pulling the “it’s a world with magic and dragons so realistic” argument, I refer you to the concept of Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

Essentially, fictional works don’t have to be realistic, they just have to be internally consistent. Magic isn’t realistic, but most fictional works handle it consistently. On the other hand, if people running around in dresses are better protected than people in heavy metal armour, the question becomes why heavy armour exists at all.

But we digress.

Wow, thank you for winning that argument for me, may I pay you gold? contact me ingame, pm Firebird.8324

But srsly guiz bunker guard meeds halp

Embolism.8106:

Trigr.6481:

Firebird.8324:

Also, isn’t it weird that the two tankiest classes in the game wear cloth? I mean a mesmer and a elementalist holding off multiple foes and supporting there allies with such little armor? I just think it’s strange how Anet comes up with these things…

You’re right, because this game is super realistic……

Assuming you’re pulling the “it’s a world with magic and dragons so realistic” argument, I refer you to the concept of Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

Essentially, fictional works don’t have to be realistic, they just have to be internally consistent. Magic isn’t realistic, but most fictional works handle it consistently. On the other hand, if people running around in dresses are better protected than people in heavy metal armour, the question becomes why heavy armour exists at all.

But we digress.

Because the people running around in dresses apparently have magical butterflies that gives them +1 more defense and +3 in super duper awesome points than the heavy metal armor people. Also firebird’s argument hit rock bottom when you assumed that it must make sense or have a tiny shred of logic in a video game. But I’m out, I’m going to go into a vegetative state soon enough if I try and explain it to you, or Embolism any longer.

Countless

I also wonder why dress classes are tankier ingame? Whats the point of medium and heavy in this case?

The point is that anet forgot how they made their game in the first place somewhere around the addition of the celestial amulet. No more class roles. Now the meta are classes that can do basically all. Dele celestial ammy = prosper

Trigr.6481:

Embolism.8106:

Trigr.6481:

Firebird.8324:

Also, isn’t it weird that the two tankiest classes in the game wear cloth? I mean a mesmer and a elementalist holding off multiple foes and supporting there allies with such little armor? I just think it’s strange how Anet comes up with these things…

You’re right, because this game is super realistic……

Assuming you’re pulling the “it’s a world with magic and dragons so realistic” argument, I refer you to the concept of Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

Essentially, fictional works don’t have to be realistic, they just have to be internally consistent. Magic isn’t realistic, but most fictional works handle it consistently. On the other hand, if people running around in dresses are better protected than people in heavy metal armour, the question becomes why heavy armour exists at all.

But we digress.

Because the people running around in dresses apparently have magical butterflies that gives them +1 more defense and +3 in super duper awesome points than the heavy metal armor people. Also firebird’s argument hit rock bottom when you assumed that it must make sense or have a tiny shred of logic in a video game. But I’m out, I’m going to go into a vegetative state soon enough if I try and explain it to you, or Embolism any longer.

Countless

I always thought of it as the heavy armor is more common and does a good enough job whereas the lighter looking stuff is enchanted and made of rarer materials tougher than real metals.

Since everyone is posting gifs I’m gonna leave this here so you can see the tactic you have to use when fighting against a mesmer coming out of stealth.

I’d say the the reason why dresses make you tankier than sexy armor isn’t because the dress itself, but rather by the fact that tempest and chronocancer can amass infinite amounts of protection, which at least for chrono is partially due to durability runes being overpowered.

Timston.1976:

The point is that anet forgot how they made their game in the first place somewhere around the addition of the celestial amulet. No more class roles. Now the meta are classes that can do basically all. Dele celestial ammy = prosper

I keep seeing this argument made around these forums, and I don’t know why. You do realize that Celestial Amulet has been in the game since beta right? ANet never “added” it, it’s always been there!

nearlight.3064:

I’d say the the reason why dresses make you tankier than sexy armor isn’t because the dress itself, but rather by the fact that tempest and chronocancer can amass infinite amounts of protection, which at least for chrono is partially due to durability runes being overpowered.

Speaking of dresses, there was a period when aristocratic and haute bourgeoisie boys wore dresses. I understand that the relevance of my comment is high.

And yes, I kinda miss guards bunkering and mesmers 100-0 shattering

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Timston.1976:

The point is that anet forgot how they made their game in the first place somewhere around the addition of the celestial amulet. No more class roles. Now the meta are classes that can do basically all. Dele celestial ammy = prosper

I keep seeing this argument made around these forums, and I don’t know why. You do realize that Celestial Amulet has been in the game since beta right? ANet never “added” it, it’s always been there!

I’m sorry I misspoke I meant, ever since anet added the buffed celestial amulet things started going badly. The one that was there before had the same amount of stats the others did. The buffed version has much more stats than the other amulets making it more powerful

Coronit.9432:

Well, all the descriptions are kinda wrong nowadays.
Another example:
Thieves are expert in the shadow arts. They utilize stealth and shadowstepping to surprise and to get close to their target. They’re deadly in one-on-one combat using their agility, acrobatic fighting style, and the ability to steal to overcome their enemies. They have an affinity for setting traps and using venom. As an adventurer profession, thieves wear medium armor.

Deadly in 1vs1…

At least the description for Revs is still correct:
Revenants channel the power of the Mists. As a soldier profession, revenants wear heavy armor. The revenant profession is available to players who have purchased the Heart of Thorns expansion.

Revenant just came out, give it time.

To me it would have been more consistent if Ranger was given the DragonHunter Role, and the Guardian was given the current Druid Role. But anyways.

Agemnon.4608:

I always thought of it as the heavy armor is more common and does a good enough job whereas the lighter looking stuff is enchanted and made of rarer materials tougher than real metals.

When you think about it though, Guardians practice Preservation magic AND wear heavy armour. You wonder why they even bother when the magic they practice, supposedly better than most at “preservation”, is actually worse than the Destruction and Denial magic of Elementalists and Mesmers, who wear dresses.

venusiano.8246:

To me it would have been more consistent if Ranger was given the DragonHunter Role, and the Guardian was given the current Druid Role. But anyways.

It would but the point of the Elite specs (whether you agree with it or not) is to give professions new roles. The problem is in some cases they go too far as to completely usurp the old order, and in others they don’t bring anything new at all.

Browrain.7346:

We get it. Bunk mes is boring to fight against. We’re all in agreement there.

It’s neither boring to play with, nor against. It’s difficult, it can be annoying, but it sure isn’t boring. Bunker mes can even be killed in 1v1’s by many builds. How is it more boring than 2 druids or tempest fighting each other where no1 will ever go down, even if one player just plays horrible.

Bunker Mesmer might be the coolest and most interesting bunker we’ve ever had in the game. It needs some slight nerfs, sure, but in it’s core it IMHO just works really well.