Guild Wars 2

It sucks. It’s boring. It’s driving ppl away. It compliments lazyness and afk-braining.

I already made a post months ago you are promoting lazyness and builds which do not require anything but internet connection.

Bunker Mesmer is just broken.
The meta is so boring and braindead I can’t even describe it.

Bunkers should not be able to kill, thats basic #MMO101..
Really a shame ArenaNet is going for this kind of Conquest.

Conquest supposed to be about tactics and fast decision making.

You’re making it a team deathmatch for retired people (no offense) because with all the bunkers around, everyone has time enough to go take a dump and come help later on.

Even Hambow-meta was much less bunker compared to this. And less boring compared to this.

I like to play single target DPS or snipe targets as a thief, but no Anet wants everyone to play bunker and AFK.

You need to make a choice here; either make a chess-game or make a PvP game with specific roles like we had before. Ppl should not be able to fullfill most roles while other classes can not even perform 1 role other than respawning.

Bunker is really strong because the bunker killers are being CC’ed to death.

“Bunkers should not be able to kill, thats basic #MMO101”

I disagree.

A bruiser*, which is what a lot of these builds should probably be classified as, should be able to kill say, an assassin.
That would be your zerker thieves, marauder mesmers, etc.
(To make a reference to another game, think Cho’ Gath & Mundo in LoL. They were capable of killing squishy targets, but were primarily tanks, and couldn’t do the same to someone as tanky as them)

Otherwise, the point of a bruiser/bunker is moot.

You just sit on a point, undying, and nothing in your situation changes in a 1 v 1, regardless of who you’re fighting.

The problem is that they’re too kitten bulky for a 2 v 1.

In other words, you need more than a +1 in a fight to win it at any reasonable rate.

I do agree that every kind of build should be viable: bunker, dps, and mid term.
The bunkers have great advantage in the present patch. Some of them take forever to kill even in a 2×1 situation.

except that these so called bruisers are actually bunkers because even in a 2v1 you can’t really kill them, well in a timely manner anyway.

killahmayne.9518:

except that these so called bruisers are actually bunkers because even in a 2v1 you can’t really kill them, well in a timely manner anyway.

I usually moa them now. Seems to get the job done.
Unfortunately, I could just play bunker mesmer and take the moa instead of gravity well.

So I’m still holding my team back by not playing Chrono Bunker, lol…

I’d like to see some return to builds making trade-offs. I think a classic trade-off is survivability versus damage potential and I’d like to see this concept make a return. I really miss the design philosophy of ‘holes in roles’ in that by design no one class and build could be strong at everything. Every build would need kitten or a weakness that allows for pregame metaplay of making teams that cover each others weaknesses and also emergent play of the strategy (primarily rotations) to try and get the matchups you want and avoid those that you don’t.

On a more negative note, I feel that even with the best intentions by the devs the Hot specializations are going to continue to be more powerful than the base choices. I want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt here that they are out to create a competitive gamemode on a level playing field but the marketing pressure with the game now being f2p is going to trump a level playing field in the name of securing sales.

Nova Stiker.8396:

Bunker is really strong because the bunker killers are being CC’ed to death.

10000000 times this

Naix.8156:

I’d like to see some return to builds making trade-offs. I think a classic trade-off is survivability versus damage potential and I’d like to see this concept make a return. I really miss the design philosophy of ‘holes in roles’ in that by design no one class and build could be strong at everything. Every build would need kitten or a weakness that allows for pregame metaplay of making teams that cover each others weaknesses and also emergent play of the strategy (primarily rotations) to try and get the matchups you want and avoid those that you don’t.

On a more negative note, I feel that even with the best intentions by the devs the Hot specializations are going to continue to be more powerful than the base choices. I want to give the devs the benefit of the doubt here that they are out to create a competitive gamemode on a level playing field but the marketing pressure with the game now being f2p is going to trump a level playing field in the name of securing sales.

You can’t have build weaknesses when some professions enjoy innate better sustain than other, by innate sustain I mean before any trait or gear get applied.

Having access to strong defensive mechanics like : stealth, higher HP, blocks and clones before even traiting….makes the game unfair to start with

Your idea of build weaknesses would work if all professions would start from 0 something which will never happen, some start ( before any trait or gear get used)at 0 like ele…others start at 5-6 like stealth/block/higher HP classes

At 0 means that before traiting an ele would lose 100% against anybody who starts on other professions before traiting

-Before anything the base sustain of all professions should be reviewed…some enjoy too much of a base sustain, some others must rely entirely on traits/gear to survive

I don’t mind the bunkers so much (chrono and tempest).

What actually drives me nuts it’s Rev and Scrapper who are kittening unkillable with a glasscanon amulet while having crazy good dps and party support.

chibbi.3706:

I don’t mind the bunkers so much (chrono and tempest).

What actually drives me nuts it’s Rev and Scrapper who are kittening unkillable with a glasscanon amulet while having crazy good dps and party support.

This and don t forget rangers.

chibbi.3706:

I don’t mind the bunkers so much (chrono and tempest).

What actually drives me nuts it’s Rev and Scrapper who are kittening unkillable with a glasscanon amulet while having crazy good dps and party support.

Same here. I think that’s part of the reason why people go more bunker. The only issue with chrono is their mobility though.

There’s too many builds that have it all.

High defense, high damage, constant vigor for frequent evades, and often hard to counter for how easy they are to use.

These builds are so broken that you can literally play with your elbows and win. And I know that because I literally test with my elbows any build someone says “It takes skill to use” but everyone knows they are extremely easy to use.

Unfortunately for me, these gimmick builds that exploit loopholes left in balance are also extremely boring to me, so I can’t exploit them like unskilled players do. I’d rather go outside watch grass grow.

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Bunkers should not be able to kill, thats basic #MMO101”

I disagree.

A bruiser*, which is what a lot of these builds should probably be classified as, should be able to kill say, an assassin.
That would be your zerker thieves, marauder mesmers, etc.
(To make a reference to another game, think Cho’ Gath & Mundo in LoL. They were capable of killing squishy targets, but were primarily tanks, and couldn’t do the same to someone as tanky as them)

Otherwise, the point of a bruiser/bunker is moot.

You just sit on a point, undying, and nothing in your situation changes in a 1 v 1, regardless of who you’re fighting.

The problem is that they’re too kitten bulky for a 2 v 1.

In other words, you need more than a +1 in a fight to win it at any reasonable rate.

The fact for me they can sustain 2v1’s makes me call them a bunker with too much damage..

Either sustain 2v1 and bring no support/dps to the team or die in 2v1 while having dps.
Bruisers (like cele meta before) made the game unbalanced as we all witnessed.

Even a bunker guard can’t bunk as good as mesmer and DS tempest anymore..
Why the hell do we still call it a Guardian? While all it does is Guard the respawn rofl

well you guys have to consider it’s not like that everyone would run “bunker” .there are basically 2 problems atm:

1) Bunker mesmer who runs bunker and is second to none
2) bruiser builds which aren’t bunker but have way too much survivability

Terrorsquad.4802:

TheOneWhoSighs.7513:

“Bunkers should not be able to kill, thats basic #MMO101”

I disagree.

A bruiser*, which is what a lot of these builds should probably be classified as, should be able to kill say, an assassin.
That would be your zerker thieves, marauder mesmers, etc.
(To make a reference to another game, think Cho’ Gath & Mundo in LoL. They were capable of killing squishy targets, but were primarily tanks, and couldn’t do the same to someone as tanky as them)

Otherwise, the point of a bruiser/bunker is moot.

You just sit on a point, undying, and nothing in your situation changes in a 1 v 1, regardless of who you’re fighting.

The problem is that they’re too kitten bulky for a 2 v 1.

In other words, you need more than a +1 in a fight to win it at any reasonable rate.

The fact for me they can sustain 2v1’s makes me call them a bunker with too much damage..

Either sustain 2v1 and bring no support/dps to the team or die in 2v1 while having dps.
Bruisers (like cele meta before) made the game unbalanced as we all witnessed.

Even a bunker guard can’t bunk as good as mesmer and DS tempest anymore..
Why the hell do we still call it a Guardian? While all it does is Guard the respawn rofl

Yeah, I’ll admit.
My argument there was pulling a bit of semantics from my butt.

I’ll blame the alcohol. That way I can avoid all responsibility.

I agree though, you really shouldn’t sustain 2 v 1 while bringing DPS. It’s kind of BS.

Also, we don’t call them guardians anymore. We call them Dragon Hunters.

But the Dragon bit in German translates to “Noob”.

Noob Hunters, destroyer of bad players!

To be fair though, some of the DH players are pretty good.

Dodge the trap? Too bad, I just pulled you into it.

These threads started by thieves players.. it has been the same song for the last 3 years, a song based on stories AKA there are no actual facts, the only truth is the one below:

In 2012 when the game was released, the d/d thief forced everybody but war/mesmer to full bunker

In 2013, the overbuffed s/d thief deleted the ele class both from PvP and WvW where everything but zerg tagging with staff was viable

In 2014, the slightly nerfed s/d thief pushed the mesmer out of PvP, and in WvW it was only PU build which saved mesmers from certain doom because of thieves

The ones below are the true imbalances of the game:

1- Stealth gives too much innate sustain

2-Stealth builds can reset the fight indefinitely as there is no counter to stealth
-Blind aoe spam is no counter..if you have more than 2 braincells when playing a thief and so on

3- Apex predator zerk builds have pushed people on bunker spec since launch, because the base design differ from profession to profession

Thief is like a school bully who goes complain to the headmaster after receiving a sound beating from the kid who learnt self-defense after being tormented for years

It’s rather sad that after 4 years thief players still try the same cards….stop it, nobody pity you, both mesmer and thief got taken out by thief for a whole year at one point at time

Thief ruined the whole GW2 balance at launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beHJkv5gaIU&index=13&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7

People tried to play burst builds on non stealth classes…but it is kittening impossible

Stop it already with this pointless threads…give everybody stealth and auto-target skills with huge base dmg and then you can start complaining about bunker specs

Supreme.3164:

You can’t have build weaknesses when some professions enjoy innate better sustain than other, by innate sustain I mean before any trait or gear get applied.

Having access to strong defensive mechanics like : stealth, higher HP, blocks and clones before even traiting….makes the game unfair to start with

Your idea of build weaknesses would work if all professions would start from 0 something which will never happen, some start ( before any trait or gear get used)at 0 like ele…others start at 5-6 like stealth/block/higher HP classes

At 0 means that before traiting an ele would lose 100% against anybody who starts on other professions before traiting

-Before anything the base sustain of all professions should be reviewed…some enjoy too much of a base sustain, some others must rely entirely on traits/gear to survive

What I was referring to was that no profession should be able to create a build that is good at everything or effective in any situation, and unfortunately this is where we are at right now with pvp. I’m fine with the asymmetric game design concept (every class has access to unique skills, abilities and different base stats), but I want there to be counterplay, both pregame and emergent, to keep the gameplay fun and interesting.

Naix.8156:

Supreme.3164:

You can’t have build weaknesses when some professions enjoy innate better sustain than other, by innate sustain I mean before any trait or gear get applied.

Having access to strong defensive mechanics like : stealth, higher HP, blocks and clones before even traiting….makes the game unfair to start with

Your idea of build weaknesses would work if all professions would start from 0 something which will never happen, some start ( before any trait or gear get used)at 0 like ele…others start at 5-6 like stealth/block/higher HP classes

At 0 means that before traiting an ele would lose 100% against anybody who starts on other professions before traiting

-Before anything the base sustain of all professions should be reviewed…some enjoy too much of a base sustain, some others must rely entirely on traits/gear to survive

What I was referring to was that no profession should be able to create a build that is good at everything or effective in any situation, and unfortunately this is where we are at right now with pvp. I’m fine with the asymmetric game design concept (every class has access to unique skills, abilities and different base stats), but I want there to be counterplay, both pregame and emergent, to keep the gameplay fun and interesting.

That’s what I was talking about, some defensive mechanics in this game have no clear counterplay, mechanics like stealth-blocks-CC chains have no direct counterplay.

A perfect asymmetric game was GW1

-Small base stats difference between professions
-Defined and counterable defensive mechanic for every profession

Supreme.3164:

These threads started by thieves players.. it has been the same song for the last 3 years, a song based on stories AKA there are no actual facts, the only truth is the one below:

In 2012 when the game was released, the d/d thief forced everybody but war/mesmer to full bunker

In 2013, the overbuffed s/d thief deleted the ele class both from PvP and WvW where everything but zerg tagging with staff was viable

In 2014, the slightly nerfed s/d thief pushed the mesmer out of PvP, and in WvW it was only PU build which saved mesmers from certain doom because of thieves

The ones below are the true imbalances of the game:

1- Stealth gives too much innate sustain

2-Stealth builds can reset the fight indefinitely as there is no counter to stealth
-Blind aoe spam is no counter..if you have more than 2 braincells when playing a thief and so on

3- Apex predator zerk builds have pushed people on bunker spec since launch, because the base design differ from profession to profession

Thief is like a school bully who goes complain to the headmaster after receiving a sound beating from the kid who learnt self-defense after being tormented for years

It’s rather sad that after 4 years thief players still try the same cards….stop it, nobody pity you, both mesmer and thief got taken out by thief for a whole year at one point at time

Thief ruined the whole GW2 balance at launch
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beHJkv5gaIU&index=13&list=PLBF2912D72F052EC7

People tried to play burst builds on non stealth classes…but it is kittening impossible

Stop it already with this pointless threads…give everybody stealth and auto-target skills with huge base dmg and then you can start complaining about bunker specs

Yes, stop thieves and stealth!
Lets give everyone afk bunker builds now!

Not sure if you noticed it but this meta is far more bunker despite thieves not being in the meta. Nice theory u got there.

Terrorsquad.4802:

It sucks. It’s boring. It’s driving ppl away. It compliments lazyness and afk-braining.

I already made a post months ago you are promoting lazyness and builds which do not require anything but internet connection.

Bunker Mesmer is just broken.
The meta is so boring and braindead I can’t even describe it.

Bunkers should not be able to kill, thats basic #MMO101..
Really a shame ArenaNet is going for this kind of Conquest.

Conquest supposed to be about tactics and fast decision making.

You’re making it a team deathmatch for retired people (no offense) because with all the bunkers around, everyone has time enough to go take a dump and come help later on.

Even Hambow-meta was much less bunker compared to this. And less boring compared to this.

I like to play single target DPS or snipe targets as a thief, but no Anet wants everyone to play bunker and AFK.

You need to make a choice here; either make a chess-game or make a PvP game with specific roles like we had before. Ppl should not be able to fullfill most roles while other classes can not even perform 1 role other than respawning.

haha, a thief player single out Mesmer as the problem of the bunker meta. I know the class used to be free-kill for you, but it’s not the only issue with the bunker meta.

Still dont get all the hate for bunker Mesmer but all the love for DS Ele.

rchu.8945:

Terrorsquad.4802:

It sucks. It’s boring. It’s driving ppl away. It compliments lazyness and afk-braining.

I already made a post months ago you are promoting lazyness and builds which do not require anything but internet connection.

Bunker Mesmer is just broken.
The meta is so boring and braindead I can’t even describe it.

Bunkers should not be able to kill, thats basic #MMO101..
Really a shame ArenaNet is going for this kind of Conquest.

Conquest supposed to be about tactics and fast decision making.

You’re making it a team deathmatch for retired people (no offense) because with all the bunkers around, everyone has time enough to go take a dump and come help later on.

Even Hambow-meta was much less bunker compared to this. And less boring compared to this.

I like to play single target DPS or snipe targets as a thief, but no Anet wants everyone to play bunker and AFK.

You need to make a choice here; either make a chess-game or make a PvP game with specific roles like we had before. Ppl should not be able to fullfill most roles while other classes can not even perform 1 role other than respawning.

haha, a thief player single out Mesmer as the problem of the bunker meta. I know the class used to be free-kill for you, but it’s not the only issue with the bunker meta.

Still dont get all the hate for bunker Mesmer but all the love for DS Ele.

Dude, bunker mesmer is just one of the many issues this meta has.
DS Ele, Marauder Scrapper, Bunker Mesmer, DPS Rev… All are way too bunky and thats just a fact.

Either their dps is too high for being a bunker or their survivability is too high being a dps.

If you don’t agree with this, then we’re obviously playing a diff game.

Oh and its not Im only playing thief lol.. Got thousands of games/hours on Warrior/Engineer aswel.. >_>

Supreme.3164:

Naix.8156:

Supreme.3164:

You can’t have build weaknesses when some professions enjoy innate better sustain than other, by innate sustain I mean before any trait or gear get applied.

Having access to strong defensive mechanics like : stealth, higher HP, blocks and clones before even traiting….makes the game unfair to start with

Your idea of build weaknesses would work if all professions would start from 0 something which will never happen, some start ( before any trait or gear get used)at 0 like ele…others start at 5-6 like stealth/block/higher HP classes

At 0 means that before traiting an ele would lose 100% against anybody who starts on other professions before traiting

-Before anything the base sustain of all professions should be reviewed…some enjoy too much of a base sustain, some others must rely entirely on traits/gear to survive

What I was referring to was that no profession should be able to create a build that is good at everything or effective in any situation, and unfortunately this is where we are at right now with pvp. I’m fine with the asymmetric game design concept (every class has access to unique skills, abilities and different base stats), but I want there to be counterplay, both pregame and emergent, to keep the gameplay fun and interesting.

That’s what I was talking about, some defensive mechanics in this game have no clear counterplay, mechanics like stealth-blocks-CC chains have no direct counterplay.

A perfect asymmetric game was GW1

-Small base stats difference between professions
-Defined and counterable defensive mechanic for every profession

Like.. I’m beyond clueless how stealth has no counterplay in this game and meta right now.. Like.. 100% clueless… Are you playing GW2 HoT?

I agree that the amount of CC’s are a big issue here but stealth is certainly not an issue. In this meta alone, 2 builds are hard-counter to any stealth, not to mention their low-cd and bunky-ness that counters classes using stealth as their base mechanic (thieves).

I can live by the fact there’s counter to stealth and there SHOULD be.

I cannot live by the fact every single spec is countering 1 or 2 specs as a whole and beating it in any situation.

If you still disagree with this, again, we’re playing a different game.