Guild Wars 2

Just a gentle reminder for the devs : do not be misguided and blinded by the apparent truth, have the courage for once to go behind the symptoms , to go to the real causes of the problem. For once dear devs, try to balance the game from an objective point of view rather than simply try to please the angry mob

This guy, month s ago perfectly nailed it :

Vague Memory.2817
Anet trys to balance using self-interested views from the forum rather than being more objective, that is why after a balance patch things just get worse. There are blatant changes that need to be made that focuses PvP on player skill rather than passive or op effects, but they don’t have the courage to make these changes because of the outrage from people who will lose their advantage over others. Anet’s response is to even things out by giving everyone OPness which unbalances things even more.

Ok so no you have problems with bunker mesmer; so ask yourself why mesmers use bunker builds over shatter chrono? The answer is simple : Too much damage flying around and not enough sustain for a shatter build

Dear devs do try to remember how GW2 balance was just after HoT release…there were a lot of power builds like marauder tempest and why all those builds quickly disappeared?…I have two answers : DragonHunter and Power herald, the damage of these two builds is still off the MMO charts ( 12k dmg on a 4s CD + evade and teleport..what?? )

But hey let’s not forget about Reaper and the outrageous chill damage + dmg modifier on chilled enemies..

You have to realize something, dear devs, bunkers exist as a consequence of extreme burst , most professions are cutted out from the dps meta because of overly strong apex predators . To really balance the game, you must, must, must take in consideration both sides of the coin, it;’s that simple

This is not as black and white as you make it out to be.

“Guys, I know we are nearly immortal, but it’s all the fault of those pesky DPS running around! In fact the solution to the current problem of too many nearly immortal people running around it to nerf damage. That way we’ll be completely immortal instead.”

:^)

I do actually agree in parts with OP. I main mesmer and I am in a full-mesmer guild. Many of us enjoy shatter much more than bunker but have not much choice if we want to win…

But clearly, if damage is too high, sustain too. And not only the sustain of bunker. There is a reason why revenants and scrapper are so strong, and it’s not only their damage: they have crazy high sustain despite using offensive amulets.

Look at rev (main offender here). In condi rev, they use viper’s amulet, which is full glass (0 defensive stats). Yet, they are super hard to take down.

Why don’t I think reapers are OP? Because if you focus them, they die. Why don’t I think DH are OP? Because if you focus them, they die. Why do I think revs are OP? Because if you focus them… then focus them again… and again… then YOU die.

A bunker mesmer that does not die and support while doing no damage is doing its job. A bit too well, but still its job. A revenant that does crazy high damage but also sustains and supports (infuse light on downed? seriously?) is not acceptable.

One thing which I find interesting: take a duel condi rev vs condi reaper. Condi rev uses conditions and survives thanks to blocks (crystal hibernation) and boons (in particular resistance). That sound like a prey for reaper and its condi transfer, unblockable skills and boon corruption. Yet apparently, condi rev destroys reaper…

Fortunately today’s balance patch, while small, will strongly affect the meta. And people will then understand that bunker mesmer was only a small part of the problem. Condi rev was the main problem. Condi rev is probably not dead after this patch, but definitely weakened.

Bunkers, a consequence of how does Conquest work. If you give more points for kills (e.g. 25 instead of 5) or give additonal objectives (e.g. plant flag in certain spot via channel to get extra points) than for random afking on points, then Bunkers may be less useful.

Supreme.3164:

why mesmers use bunker builds over shatter chrono? The answer : *Too much damage flying around

So, you think that the solution to bunker builds…. is to make them more effective?

Well, good luck.

I see tons of problems with the current meta in ways that certain balance-attempts could just make things much worse:

1) A lot of builds are extremely strong, ridiculously strong even, like Reaper and DH, but it just happens that the metabuilds counter them very well. They nerfed resistance on Rev (a good nerf, not too much, not too little), imagine the nerf being a bit bigger and ANet giving in to the forums to nerf diamond skin: booom, 2 condition-reapers per team!

2) Maybe they also nerf the tons of blur/block/evades and stability on mesmer and rev. Boooom: 2 DH-Trappers per team.

The whole reason why most builds work is hinged upon 1 trait that can be looked at as very OP that counters sth. else that would otherwise be very OP.

I have to say though, that the few balance changes that are planned for today are IMHO pretty good: severe enough to make teams have a bit more choices in what to play, but not severe enough to totally shift the meta on it’s head just so the new imba-fotm’s rule for the next 2 months.

It is the exact opposite lol. There are hardly any burst builds around because you cannot burst someone down in this tanky meta.

Elyndis.2130:

Supreme.3164:

why mesmers use bunker builds over shatter chrono? The answer : *Too much damage flying around

So, you think that the solution to bunker builds…. is to make them more effective?

Well, good luck.

Where does he say that only DPS needs a nerf?

Bunker builds need nerfs. So does DPS builds. There are too many extremes.

Bunker vs. Bunker will never end. Burst vs. Burst can literally end in 1 ability. Both battles aren’t good for the game.

Everything has to be closer together. Bunker need to deal more damage and survive less. DPS needs to deal less damage but survive longer.

PowerBottom.5796:

I see tons of problems with the current meta in ways that certain balance-attempts could just make things much worse:

1) A lot of builds are extremely strong, ridiculously strong even, like Reaper and DH, but it just happens that the metabuilds counter them very well. They nerfed resistance on Rev (a good nerf, not too much, not too little), imagine the nerf being a bit bigger and ANet giving in to the forums to nerf diamond skin: booom, 2 condition-reapers per team!

2) Maybe they also nerf the tons of blur/block/evades and stability on mesmer and rev. Boooom: 2 DH-Trappers per team.

The whole reason why most builds work is hinged upon 1 trait that can be looked at as very OP that counters sth. else that would otherwise be very OP.

I have to say though, that the few balance changes that are planned for today are IMHO pretty good: severe enough to make teams have a bit more choices in what to play, but not severe enough to totally shift the meta on it’s head just so the new imba-fotm’s rule for the next 2 months.

I’ll take that over this snore fest they call pro league any day of the week and twice on sundays!

As for the OP I get a sense that he’s very into low skill high reward builds.

I’d rather they trim the stats on the amulets to adjusting traits too much especially if they maintain the no split between PvE and PvP. Example, reducing the power on zerker amulets, adjusting down the toughness and vitality on tanks amulets till they’re in a position people like.

Raids were designed and tested with things like elite specs being as rediculous as they currently are, nerfing damage will hurt raids in terms of what is viable and what isn’t. I don’t want to be in a situation where 1 team comp is leagues above everything else for 1 boss just because those damage mods aren’t used in PvP so get a free pass. Case in point burn warrior on gorseval.

Edit: Before someone brings it up, I’m not averse to nerfing where necessary to traits and skills just not massive gutting of them like we have seen in the past.

People are bringing Chrono bunkers because they do what they do better than any other build for any other class and on top of that they’re relatively easy to play effectively. Chrono bunker has all the tools one needs to stand on a point and not get killed. They can fight outnumbered without too much risk of going down before someone can rotate to them. They also have excellent boon generation and excellent res ability. They’re mobile via portal and the passive speed boost in Chrono line. They have access to lots of ethereal combo fields and solid aoe ccs. What more could you ask for in a bunker?

Shiro/Glint is not going to work anymore without some serious changes to revenant because people are learning how easy it is to just overload it with condis. The only reason so many revenants transitioned to Mallyx was for the resistance. If Glint gave three seconds of resistance every time a facet was primed/consumed then everyone would still be running shiro/glint.

Perfect balanced would be to get for each classes a viable bruiser, power dps, condi dps and bunker build.

So when META is changing, each players can tweak his build to be viable again.

Waiting for Anet to nerf the game, is not the solution…. but wait… the game don’t have a perfect balanced, because they nerf it each time someone QQ over forum.