Guild Wars 2

Hi there devs,
I want to suggest some improvements in the current ranking system, which is hugely in favor of offensive classes in my opinion. Imagine solo queue with pug these days (premade play is little bit different with fun factor, but issue is the same).

If I play bunker build with any class and defend one base which will be attacked during match 5-6 times, I get roughly 100 rank points IF! I sucessfully defend that point (ie somebody will come help me kill anything tougher than thief). On top of that I hugely contribute to the teamfights with heals, boons etc.

On the other hand, any hotjoin hero which run from base to base and tag enemies, leaving every point undefended and basically helping the other team to win, get easily 200 rank points even in lost match.

I really feel my contribution to win is much bigger and I should get fair reward as anybody else in the team. At this time is much better to play offensive if you want level up your rank to get better looking equip which is unfair. What about some ticking points from defending base or better rewards from point defender?

Agreed. A simple: Gain double points for killing an enemy inside your Team’s captured point (defending it)

a small passive rank point tick while standing on a node.. balanced so you don’t gain too much.. is my choice to fix this..

Firebreathz’s idea sounds good.

o_o stand on enemy’s home node, problem solved :P

Darnis.4056:

o_o stand on enemy’s home node, problem solved :P

Thanks for useful suggestion! (not really) -.-

firebreathz.7692:

a small passive rank point tick while standing on a node.. balanced so you don’t gain too much.. is my choice to fix this..

I don’t like this because if someone is “defending” a point that never gets hit, he’s useless to the team because it’s a 4 vs 5 on the other 2 points.

One thing people need to understand about “defending” points is that they shouldn’t be sitting on the point the entire game. You should be where the action is at.

What about normalizing the glory+rank points and don’t reward them untill the game is over, similar to the win bonus? Also add in some system so people who leave and try to come back when it’s almost over/afking don’t get anything at all even if you somehow win.

Award points for winning, and not for losing. Greatly reduce or eliminate any glory gain from things you do during a game. It is simpler and fairer to award glory for winning as a team, and not for individual pursuits.

Since spvp revolves around taking and keeping points I do agree that defenders should get a bonus if they stick around to defend it. Not too many extra points, but not zero and not more than someone would get on the front lines downing/stomping.

To those that think that guarding would automatically hinder your team, well I guess it’s a matter of perspective.
If you have a bunker sitting on your near point, and the other 4 team members are up against the 5 opposing team members at a certain point, all you have to do is send your bunker over to which ever other point is currently in favor of the enemy. That will either cause the opposing team to back off a little to take back their point, or keep the enemy who just spawned away from the original point in contention, and/or possibly give you three points. Or if you lose the point that was having the large battle , you have two again as you just took the other teams original. And since you are originally outnumbered, you will probably have team mates way-pointing, at which point they can cover the near point until a new plan is started.

You can either have a team that has defenders or you can play aggressively. It’s up to the team, and there are strategies for almost every formula. But, people should be rewarded for playing defensively. There are people, including me, who would enjoy that sort of game play. And adding more rewards for play-style choice in spvp wouldn’t exactly be a bad thing. Spvp in this game is flat-lining. Opening up new ways to encourage different play-styles with an incentive to do so is always a good idea, imo.

I have noticed this too, so when I do want to lvl up I am forced to make my character as offensive as possible. When I play bunker..the points..theyre so little. So I agree something has to be done about it

Edit: Although one time I did get a very high score in capicorn from continuously killing someone trying to take the underwater point lol

The relationship between points and performance is definately not representative of actual contribution. This entire system needs an overhaul. So seconded.

replicacloned.2809:

Since spvp revolves around taking and keeping points I do agree that defenders should get a bonus if they stick around to defend it. Not too many extra points, but not zero and not more than someone would get on the front lines downing/stomping.

To those that think that guarding would automatically hinder your team, well I guess it’s a matter of perspective.
If you have a bunker sitting on your near point, and the other 4 team members are up against the 5 opposing team members at a certain point, all you have to do is send your bunker over to which ever other point is currently in favor of the enemy. That will either cause the opposing team to back off a little to take back their point, or keep the enemy who just spawned away from the original point in contention, and/or possibly give you three points. Or if you lose the point that was having the large battle , you have two again as you just took the other teams original. And since you are originally outnumbered, you will probably have team mates way-pointing, at which point they can cover the near point until a new plan is started.

You can either have a team that has defenders or you can play aggressively. It’s up to the team, and there are strategies for almost every formula. But, people should be rewarded for playing defensively. There are people, including me, who would enjoy that sort of game play. And adding more rewards for play-style choice in spvp wouldn’t exactly be a bad thing. Spvp in this game is flat-lining. Opening up new ways to encourage different play-styles with an incentive to do so is always a good idea, imo.

Backcapping is a lot different than standing on your close point watching your personal points go up while no one attacks you.

Also, if you’re in a hotjoin or solo queueing, it’s hard to know where the enemy team is because there’s literally no coordination there. People are going to be even more likely to just sit on a point.

Follidus.8027:

Backcapping is a lot different than standing on your close point watching your personal points go up while no one attacks you.

Also, if you’re in a hotjoin or solo queueing, it’s hard to know where the enemy team is because there’s literally no coordination there. People are going to be even more likely to just sit on a point.

I tend not to bother worrying or fretting about the actions of other players in a hotjoin. If I wanted dependable team mates I would join a pre-made. And this is coming from someone who hotjoins the majority of the time. If winning meant more glory than it does now, or more than a gear box with a RNG, I would probably take it a tiny bit more seriously.
Right now, hot-joining for me is for fun, farming glory, getting better at my class, and experimenting with new builds. Winning is nothing but an ego boost, but only in very close games.

I just think any way we can encourage more people to play spvp should be encouraged. If it’s not extra glory for babysitting points, fine. Whatever. Gear sets that can be chosen with glory points, and not just boxes with the random chance of getting a piece of that set would be an excellent start, imo.

Oh, you want to buy 10 gold boxes to try and get a few pieces of armor of a certain set?

Best I can do is 1 piece of the set you want and a dozen or so pieces of armor you can’t wear or already have. So sorry, have a finisher as a conciliation prize.

Follidus.8027:

firebreathz.7692:

a small passive rank point tick while standing on a node.. balanced so you don’t gain too much.. is my choice to fix this..

I don’t like this because if someone is “defending” a point that never gets hit, he’s useless to the team because it’s a 4 vs 5 on the other 2 points.

One thing people need to understand about “defending” points is that they shouldn’t be sitting on the point the entire game. You should be where the action is at.

This shows how blind you are to the solo player/pug experience. First of all, I pug and I bunker a lot and there is never a chance where you sit on a spot all match and never get attacked. NEVER HAPPENS. Secondly, the way your average pug tournament game goes every one circle jerks around the map. If you leave a point you will lose it within 30 second 95% of the time. Also, action is going on at 2-3 points in any pug match even in a tournament at almost any time. How can I be at all these spots? The problem is people like you view things through a very limited prism of very organized high level competition. Never mind the fact that the whole scoring system is a ludicrous idea w-l is all that should matter and often rewards bad play. You say guarding a node all match is bad I can easily just say that pushing to points willy nilly and engaging in skirmish that really does nothing to win the actually game is bad and is rewarded too well. There are 2 sides to the coin here other types of bad play are richly rewarded. I would say in 1/3 of my wins the average score of the losing team is higher then the that of the winning team because they just zerged around the map taking one point at a time and collecting kills at each point only to be constantly down 2 points the whole match and losing. But they get rewarded with a lot of rank points doing this.

gaining points for standing in a cap point u already conquered is a bad idea. Will create a new breed of useless playstyle of people who just gather around n stay at one node only despite being uncontested.

Kwll.1468:

Follidus.8027:

firebreathz.7692:

a small passive rank point tick while standing on a node.. balanced so you don’t gain too much.. is my choice to fix this..

I don’t like this because if someone is “defending” a point that never gets hit, he’s useless to the team because it’s a 4 vs 5 on the other 2 points.

One thing people need to understand about “defending” points is that they shouldn’t be sitting on the point the entire game. You should be where the action is at.

This shows how blind you are to the solo player/pug experience. First of all, I pug and I bunker a lot and there is never a chance where you sit on a spot all match and never get attacked. NEVER HAPPENS. Secondly, the way your average pug tournament game goes every one circle jerks around the map. If you leave a point you will lose it within 30 second 95% of the time. Also, action is going on at 2-3 points in any pug match even in a tournament at almost any time. How can I be at all these spots? The problem is people like you view things through a very limited prism of very organized high level competition. Never mind the fact that the whole scoring system is a ludicrous idea w-l is all that should matter and often rewards bad play. You say guarding a node all match is bad I can easily just say that pushing to points willy nilly and engaging in skirmish that really does nothing to win the actually game is bad and is rewarded too well. There are 2 sides to the coin here other types of bad play are richly rewarded. I would say in 1/3 of my wins the average score of the losing team is higher then the that of the winning team because they just zerged around the map taking one point at a time and collecting kills at each point only to be constantly down 2 points the whole match and losing. But they get rewarded with a lot of rank points doing this.

Ok, I’ve been in several solo queues where someone sits at our close point the entire game and they don’t get attacked that often. Just because someone gets attacked eventually doesn’t mean much. Every fight that happens where the other team doesn’t attack that point is wasting time.

I think the system should be changed, but I don’t think it’s going to be great if you reward people for sitting on a point. A better way would be to give glory over time when that point is contested (or someone is very close to it because ranged classes can attack a point without being on the point). That way the person is only getting glory when someone is there attacking it.

For every 15 seconds you’re standing in the defending circle AND IN COMBAT. +1 glory.

Wouldn’t balance everything but it’d be good enough.

Minion of Vey.4398:

For every 15 seconds you’re standing in the defending circle AND IN COMBAT. +1 glory.

Wouldn’t balance everything but it’d be good enough.

Issue is that this coudl encourage bad behavior, like squishies standing on the circle to gain glory and dying to aoe.

Imo the bulk of glory should be earned from winning the match. For example, lets say max glory one can earn is 300. 300 points and win or loss 300 is what u get.

If they kept points as they are now, but made it so that 150 points earned for winning, and max 150 points for score. that would improve it alot. The MOST glory someone could earn in a losing match would be equal to or less than the least glory someone earns in a winning game. Not saying they shouldnt change the scoreboard, clearly they should. But the only change thats likely to universally create better behavior (ie behavior aimed at playing effectivly to win-not maximize glory) is to attach the most glory to winning.

Guardian Bunkers are also support and they’ll be in teamfights.
Players who defend the side point use other players’ calls to determine whether another player is going for the team’s close point. Either through counting how many players each player calls out at each point or if they see somebody go for it.
If you’re sitting on a point by yourself it’s 100% your fault you got no glory because you’re not doing anything for your team. Not to mention it’s generally just hotjoin players who care about glory.

Unless nobody calls then you’re screwed.

i play guardian bunker
my rank is 46, 1700+ tournaments won from 2500, only 350 hot joins played
i have seen ranks 49 with 1100 tournaments won and noticias high number of hotjoin played…
my highest puntuation is if im Lucky the sale one as my team roamers puntuation

This would only work if there was one node on the map. We could end up with playing servers, dueling servers, and node sitting servers if implemented poorly.

Defensive play is always in a hard spot in games. Hard to quantify but a crucial ingredient to victory.

Interesting idea though.

Follidus.8027:

firebreathz.7692:

a small passive rank point tick while standing on a node.. balanced so you don’t gain too much.. is my choice to fix this..

I don’t like this because if someone is “defending” a point that never gets hit, he’s useless to the team because it’s a 4 vs 5 on the other 2 points.

One thing people need to understand about “defending” points is that they shouldn’t be sitting on the point the entire game. You should be where the action is at.

in tpvp this isn’t the case – you have to stay on a point as a bunker even if no-one comes the whole game, because as soon as you move the other team will send someone for a free cap….

i decided to use my ranger n play like a bunker to understand what the OP is complaining about but I don’t see any difficulty getting high score though.

I defended the cap point n killed only at that cap point., went to a cap point,claimed it,defended it thruout the match,killed 11 invaders at my cap point,res my ally 3 times n i have 200+ points.

Seems like the scoring system is fine.
killing gives 5 points,killing at cap point whislt defending it gives additional 10 points.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

i decided to use my ranger n play like a bunker to understand what the OP is complaining about but I don’t see any difficulty getting high score though.

I defended the cap point n killed only at that cap point., went to a cap point,claimed it,defended it thruout the match,killed 11 invaders at my cap point,res my ally 3 times n i have 200+ points.

Seems like the scoring system is fine.
killing gives 5 points,killing at cap point whislt defending it gives additional 10 points.

Are you serious? Watch these ranks and now tell me again, are you serious???
That’s like saying, I’m skilled because I reach 300 points in hotjoin. Play against real players and then tell me again how easy it is to gain points on bunkering a node.

Bonuspoints for defensive play is needed imo, I’m not sure if passive points awarded is the best idea, since it’ll probably be heavily farmed. I have never cared that much about rank/glory points. Winning the match is what’s important. Even if I end up as last in my team as a bunker, I’m still happy if it contributed to us winning the match. If I’d want glory/rank, I’d just farm hotjoin all day running with the zerg and still suck as a r40-50.

Passive points are a fine in tpvp. Shouldn’t be implented in hotjoin, so instead of zerging you can go afk drink a coffee and still get points.

Yeah, that’s exactly what I meant as heavy farming. Seen that kind of stuff way too much in other games.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

i decided to use my ranger n play like a bunker to understand what the OP is complaining about but I don’t see any difficulty getting high score though.

I defended the cap point n killed only at that cap point., went to a cap point,claimed it,defended it thruout the match,killed 11 invaders at my cap point,res my ally 3 times n i have 200+ points.

Seems like the scoring system is fine.
killing gives 5 points,killing at cap point whislt defending it gives additional 10 points.

Vs those ppl if you are a bunker guardian and you have a good team you’re probably going to get like 10 pnts….mid capping (If you want more you need to “dps” with your powerful 200 dmg skills some downed folks and that’s sad)….end. There’s a reason why i hate playing guardian…it’s terribly boring and you get really less points compared to roamers..

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

i decided to use my ranger n play like a bunker to understand what the OP is complaining about but I don’t see any difficulty getting high score though.

I defended the cap point n killed only at that cap point., went to a cap point,claimed it,defended it thruout the match,killed 11 invaders at my cap point,res my ally 3 times n i have 200+ points.

Seems like the scoring system is fine.
killing gives 5 points,killing at cap point whislt defending it gives additional 10 points.

Are you serious? Watch these ranks and now tell me again, are you serious???
That’s like saying, I’m skilled because I reach 300 points in hotjoin. Play against real players and then tell me again how easy it is to gain points on bunkering a node.

hotjoin huh?ranks?real players? sorry mr elitist ,i’m just showing the OP that killing a person at a self defended cap points gives 15 points in total,5 for kill,10 for defending at cap point. This is with regards to the OP saying bunkers not getting much rank points.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

i decided to use my ranger n play like a bunker to understand what the OP is complaining about but I don’t see any difficulty getting high score though.

I defended the cap point n killed only at that cap point., went to a cap point,claimed it,defended it thruout the match,killed 11 invaders at my cap point,res my ally 3 times n i have 200+ points.

Seems like the scoring system is fine.
killing gives 5 points,killing at cap point whislt defending it gives additional 10 points.

Are you serious? Watch these ranks and now tell me again, are you serious???
That’s like saying, I’m skilled because I reach 300 points in hotjoin. Play against real players and then tell me again how easy it is to gain points on bunkering a node.

hotjoin huh?ranks?real players? sorry mr elitist ,i’m just showing the OP that killing a person at a self defended cap points gives 15 points in total,5 for kill,10 for defending at cap point. This is with regards to the OP saying bunkers not getting much rank points.

What I want to point out is that against ppl that have an idea how pvp works and have experience won’t just run in allone and die. They will regroup and push in together to stomp you or just go on the other node where the bunker isn’t standing.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

hotjoin huh?ranks?real players? sorry mr elitist ,i’m just showing the OP that killing a person at a self defended cap points gives 15 points in total,5 for kill,10 for defending at cap point. This is with regards to the OP saying bunkers not getting much rank points.

A bunker guardian can kill nothing…and if there’s only one you just stay there while he’s wasting time without even calling for backup…then he just realize you’re just laughing and goes away….points earned for this? 0
Trap rangers can earn more points because they can actually kill dumb/very squishy specs if they’re stupid enough to picknick on traps alone (And yes because trap ranger is a bit over the top too, talkin’ about those bs dps pets on bunker specs), but if you consider the “real” mid bunker you can just fight random ppl forever without getting one single point cause eventually they just run away and bb…the only way you can get points is calling backup and wait for them to down someone, so you can “steal” some defender…infact, if you notice, as a bunker guardian and if you have a good team you actually make like 80% of your total points during the first teamfight at mid with other team mates…at bok for example if i go bunker guard i spend almost all the time just outside ct telling my mates how they’re moving, side incoming, who’s going to our treb, putting target on thieves so they can get them before they get to the point and so on while watching our mid….earning nothing off course..

I like winning. Rank points are a tasty frosting on the cake thing. And when I lose, they’re a consolation. A weak, bitter, salty tears consolation. Have fun, don’t worry about the bunkery rankness.

JimmyJazz.7943:

Agreed. A simple: Gain double points for killing an enemy inside your Team’s captured point (defending it)

Bad idea, would just make hotjoin heros zerg needlessly on defended points.

Standing on a captured cap point looking like a scarecrow whilst ur team mates are 4 vs 5 at the other 2 points is not good teamplay.If you request for passive rank points whilst doing nothing,you will only create a new breed of useless player who just stay at cap points and afk.5 person at cap point A,afk for glory and rank points,5 person at cap point B,afk for glory and rank points.These hotjoin glory farmers playstyle will be passed on to those new in spvp.There ppl will then come to tpvp n do the same thing.

currently i would say the rank points is fairly balanced and rewards the different roles.

when a bunker and a roamer approaches an undefended cap point,the bunker would stay gaining 10 points for Objective neutraliser and another 10 points for Points Captured.The roamer if he is not a hotjoin hero would have moved on and missed out on 20 points.

should the point becomes contested,the roamer returns to help the bunker. Even though the bunker does not deal much dmg to the enemy,as long as his teammate kills that enemy,the bunker will still gain 5 points for Kill and 10 points for Objective defender.

the bunker being a bunker will most probably not get downed as fast as his other teammates who are not bunker build so bunker builds are mostly the ones who revive people in cap points battle-teammate revivals give 10 points.

when a bunker and a roamer approaches a defended cap point as long as the bunker has dealt some dmg to the enemy there, and the bunkers teammates finshed off the enemy,he will get objective assaulter-10points.Once the area is safe,the bunker will stay to neutralise it and then cap it for 20 points.The roamer if he is not a hotjoin hero would have moved on and missed out on 20 points.

Taking all the above into consideration,i would say a bunker and a roamer who play their part unselfishly will still get a rather balanced reward of rank points.

firebreathz.7692:

a small passive rank point tick while standing on a node.. balanced so you don’t gain too much.. is my choice to fix this..

this is an awesome idea.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

Standing on a captured cap point looking like a scarecrow whilst ur team mates are 4 vs 5 at the other 2 points is not good teamplay.If you request for passive rank points whilst doing nothing,you will only create a new breed of useless player who just stay at cap points and afk.5 person at cap point A,afk for glory and rank points,5 person at cap point B,afk for glory and rank points.These hotjoin glory farmers playstyle will be passed on to those new in spvp.There ppl will then come to tpvp n do the same thing.

currently i would say the rank points is fairly balanced and rewards the different roles.

when a bunker and a roamer approaches an undefended cap point,the bunker would stay gaining 10 points for Objective neutraliser and another 10 points for Points Captured.The roamer if he is not a hotjoin hero would have moved on and missed out on 20 points.

should the point becomes contested,the roamer returns to help the bunker. Even though the bunker does not deal much dmg to the enemy,as long as his teammate kills that enemy,the bunker will still gain 5 points for Kill and 10 points for Objective defender.

the bunker being a bunker will most probably not get downed as fast as his other teammates who are not bunker build so bunker builds are mostly the ones who revive people in cap points battle-teammate revivals give 10 points.

when a bunker and a roamer approaches a defended cap point as long as the bunker has dealt some dmg to the enemy there, and the bunkers teammates finshed off the enemy,he will get objective assaulter-10points.Once the area is safe,the bunker will stay to neutralise it and then cap it for 20 points.The roamer if he is not a hotjoin hero would have moved on and missed out on 20 points.

Taking all the above into consideration,i would say a bunker and a roamer who play their part unselfishly will still get a rather balanced reward of rank points.

You are talking about premade play which doesnt burn me so much, because I am having much more fun there than in solo join. You can forget about any organization in solo queue, so my point still stand.

Anyway, tell me more about that not standing at point like scarecrow, maybe you actually teach me something. Lets say I am def ele and I am able to defeat 2v2 with my guildmate . I am defending our close point at forest and my guys just cleaned mid. So i get up myself and leave perfectly safe point for some chance to harass their point? Or lets say I am alone again on our point and it is 4v4 on mid. Should I go help them and risk losing either mid and our point?

Things you talk about can do maximally mesmer with portal, which is really good for this job, but he is not bunker (usually).

Expansive.3716:

milo.6942:

Award points for winning, and not for losing. Greatly reduce or eliminate any glory gain from things you do during a game. It is simpler and fairer to award glory for winning as a team, and not for individual pursuits.

I truly thought that was the way things were going to be when the game launched. I still feel as if that’s the way it should be

The way things are now, it strongly discourages team work and everyone is for themselves.

they are trying to make the game casual-friendly and kittening up everything they touch
edit: this entire thread is worthless debates about points gained here and there, and “think of the bunkers” and the capping and the killing points… all worthless. all distract from the object of the game: win