Bunkers are ruining tPvP
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Agreed. You know there’s a problem when statements like this are true.
“Let’s run 2 guardians because why not?”
“We need 2 bunkers, 1 for close and 1 for mid”
“3 guardian rune of mercy spam gogogo”
Guardian worst bunker class? okkkay buddy
stopped reading your post there
I would like you to show me a bunker necromancer, and how it’s superior to a bunker guardian.
Right now atm Engineer has the highest survivability for a bunker build, and elementalist is more of a YoYo bunker, his health goes from 10% to 100% instantly. And guardian has more flexibility, they can remain bunker while changing up their play depending on the situation, engineer/ele need to stick with the same utility for their bunker builds.
I wouldn’t say guardian is easier to kill, no bunker should ever die 1v1 unless they’re bad though.
I have around 500 tourny wins and never encountered a “bunker necro” maybe someone who tried to be one, but none that had an endless supply of heals and condition removal on short cooldown.
I would like you to show me a bunker necromancer, and how it’s superior to a bunker guardian.
Right now atm Engineer has the highest survivability for a bunker build, and elementalist is more of a YoYo bunker, his health goes from 10% to 100% instantly. And guardian has more flexibility, they can remain bunker while changing up their play depending on the situation, engineer/ele need to stick with the same utility for their bunker builds.
I wouldn’t say guardian is easier to kill, no bunker should ever die 1v1 unless they’re bad though.
I have around 500 tourny wins and never encountered a “bunker necro” maybe someone who tried to be one, but none that had an endless supply of heals and condition removal on short cooldown.
I agree with everything except the engi statement. The guardian block bug pretty much makes them the strongest bunkers ever.
I would like you to show me a bunker necromancer, and how it’s superior to a bunker guardian.
Right now atm Engineer has the highest survivability for a bunker build, and elementalist is more of a YoYo bunker, his health goes from 10% to 100% instantly. And guardian has more flexibility, they can remain bunker while changing up their play depending on the situation, engineer/ele need to stick with the same utility for their bunker builds.
I wouldn’t say guardian is easier to kill, no bunker should ever die 1v1 unless they’re bad though.
I have around 500 tourny wins and never encountered a “bunker necro” maybe someone who tried to be one, but none that had an endless supply of heals and condition removal on short cooldown.
I agree with everything except the engi statement. The guardian block bug pretty much makes them the strongest bunkers ever.
I didn’t know people found a way to intentionally make it come up. If they have, then yes you can just wait for someone to pop their “instakill” burst, and negate it all.
Engineers can exploit elixir R, with great timing it instantly revives you without delay when you go down. (Which doesn’t happen enough)
I would like you to show me a bunker necromancer, and how it’s superior to a bunker guardian.
Right now atm Engineer has the highest survivability for a bunker build, and elementalist is more of a YoYo bunker, his health goes from 10% to 100% instantly. And guardian has more flexibility, they can remain bunker while changing up their play depending on the situation, engineer/ele need to stick with the same utility for their bunker builds.
I wouldn’t say guardian is easier to kill, no bunker should ever die 1v1 unless they’re bad though.
I have around 500 tourny wins and never encountered a “bunker necro” maybe someone who tried to be one, but none that had an endless supply of heals and condition removal on short cooldown.
I agree with everything except the engi statement. The guardian block bug pretty much makes them the strongest bunkers ever.
I didn’t know people found a way to intentionally make it come up. If they have, then yes you can just wait for someone to pop their “instakill” burst, and negate it all.
Engineers can exploit elixir R, with great timing it instantly revives you without delay when you go down. (Which doesn’t happen enough)
cough yeah you can definitely make it happen fairly often. This crap has been reported so much too…. Sad thing is I didn’t know it existed until like a week into playing guardian. Then after like 2 seconds of testing I figured out how it worked. Block entire hundred blades or pistol whip? np.
Most of this is coming from a 2-1 or 3-1 scenario where the bunker was left alone. The necro was the worst due to so many kitten lives (shroud, walk, and ultimate). Changing from one form to the next and fear in between. If you focus, a guardian (their knocks can be easily resisted through stability) will die faster b/c he doesn’t have enough invul to get out of critical situations.
How are bunkers ruining tPvP? This doesn’t even make sense to me. You can’t blame people for building tanky when the whole objective of tPvP is capping and holding points. If anything, 5 people on one team all thinking they can roam is ruining (pug) tPvP.
How are bunkers ruining tPvP? This doesn’t even make sense to me. You can’t blame people for building tanky when the whole objective of tPvP is capping and holding points. If anything, 5 people on one team all thinking they can roam is ruining (pug) tPvP.
Even Jonathan Sharp can agree on the bunker thing. Bunkers are so effective that they rule out the use of some pure glass cannons. Bunkers are supposed to be countered by glass cannons with their raw burst that can overcome their defenses. Right now the answer to holding a point is BUNKERS BUNKERS BUNKERS. This in no way promotes team variety. Especially when at a given time one bunker may be more effective than another, meaning if you want to run ultimate cheese then you need to run 2 of those bunkers, or maybe 1 with a soft bunker like a portal mesmer.
Bunkers are overpowered actually, in all the games I played and builds I tested, if some of the highest damage builds are getting outhealed, then it’s a problem. In tourny play if a bunker caps one of your points, you have to call your team for help (if the bunker isn’t a baddie) thus making your teammates outnumbered elsewhere just to deal with this one fool, and even then he’ll put up a long enough distraction to make it “worth it”
If a pure glass cannon build is having trouble with a bunker, then do you know what it’s like for any other build? They have no hope at all with dealing with them, and if you send 2 people to fight a bunker, and none of them are running the typical glass cannon build, then you probably aren’t going to kill him unless you both blow 3utilities and an elite, and try your best to stunlock him and get it all down before he starts his heal/boon rotation again.
All this does is create a metagame, where people can’t have fun running their ranger with melee weapons, or a thief build that isn’t the exact same as others. Because most classes only have one possible build to deal with bunkers efficiently. And not everyone wants to ignore tons of traits/skills just because of these monsters will get an easy win off them if they do.
Bunkers are ruining tPvP because they’re decreasing the amount of viable builds in this game, and they’re promoting long extended fights for gameplay, it’s so ridiculous 1v1 that a true bunker should be able to literally dance in a persons damage, go afk for 5 seconds, come back and do a heal rotation, jump up and down.. maybe talk to the other guy, insulting him by saying things like “you’re bad, you do no damage” just to demoralize him, and act like he is a better player.
I don’t know anyone who likes being insulted just because they want to run their own unique build instead of running the typical bunker/glass cannon set up.
(edited by Almaz.2860)
Why would a glass cannon counter a bunker? How does that make any sense at all. Then everyone would purely run glass cannon builds. There’s some kind of epic logic fail going on here.
Why would a glass cannon counter a bunker? How does that make any sense at all. Then everyone would purely run glass cannon builds. There’s some kind of epic logic fail going on here.
What we’re stating is that the bunker can take the full damage output of a glass cannon, someone who intended on going for the highest possible damage for their class, and it’s still effortlessly washed away, and the glass cannon is set on full cooldown while the bunker is full health and fighting at full performance.
If a bunker can withstand such damage output, then it can withstand any build that’s not completely sacrificing all survivability for damage.
You might think “a tanky class can beat a tanky class” but no, not in guild wars 2. Healing is strong, and on short cooldown, and the bunkers of this game always have a condition removal up, and amazing regeneration. Anyone that isn’t a glass cannon, has ignorable damage.
A bunker vs a non glass-cannon = Endless fight, no one wins. (Unless the non-glass cannon just has a straight up useless build)
How are bunkers ruining tPvP? This doesn’t even make sense to me. You can’t blame people for building tanky when the whole objective of tPvP is capping and holding points. If anything, 5 people on one team all thinking they can roam is ruining (pug) tPvP.
Even Jonathan Sharp can agree on the bunker thing. Bunkers are so effective that they rule out the use of some pure glass cannons. Bunkers are supposed to be countered by glass cannons with their raw burst that can overcome their defenses. Right now the answer to holding a point is BUNKERS BUNKERS BUNKERS. This in no way promotes team variety. Especially when at a given time one bunker may be more effective than another, meaning if you want to run ultimate cheese then you need to run 2 of those bunkers, or maybe 1 with a soft bunker like a portal mesmer.
Pretty sure condition builds with armor ignoring bleeds and healing reducing poisons are suppose to counter bunkers, burst builds are suppose to kill condition builds before they can stack bleeds
How are bunkers ruining tPvP? This doesn’t even make sense to me. You can’t blame people for building tanky when the whole objective of tPvP is capping and holding points. If anything, 5 people on one team all thinking they can roam is ruining (pug) tPvP.
Even Jonathan Sharp can agree on the bunker thing. Bunkers are so effective that they rule out the use of some pure glass cannons. Bunkers are supposed to be countered by glass cannons with their raw burst that can overcome their defenses. Right now the answer to holding a point is BUNKERS BUNKERS BUNKERS. This in no way promotes team variety. Especially when at a given time one bunker may be more effective than another, meaning if you want to run ultimate cheese then you need to run 2 of those bunkers, or maybe 1 with a soft bunker like a portal mesmer.
Pretty sure condition builds with armor ignoring bleeds and healing reducing poisons are suppose to counter bunkers, not burst builds that bunkers are suppose to counter because thats why people build bunkers
This is what SHOULD’VE been, but it isn’t working out, it would require you to keep 20 stacks of bleed on someone the entire time, and if a bunker doesn’t have condition removal then he’s doing it wrong. He should have enough condition removal to hold off 2 people for a decent amount of time.
In the current state of the game, against good bunkers, you will only notice these “counters” working in a 2v1 instead of 1v1.
Guardian worst bunker class? okkkay buddy
stopped reading your post there
lol. You read it wrong. Order from WORST to OK. He listed guards last. And yes I think bunkers need to be toned down.
“What we’re stating is that the bunker can take the full damage output of a glass cannon, someone who intended on going for the highest possible damage for their class, and it’s still effortlessly washed away, and the glass cannon is set on full cooldown while the bunker is full health and fighting at full performance.”
And what I’m saying is if full on burst classes were able to solo bunkers, there would be no point in have any other kind of build besides full on burst. Bunkers AND condition damage dealers would both be useless. There is balance among bunkers, regardless if you are willing to accept it.
You’d be surprised how having even 10 stacks of bleed on a bunker for 2 seconds whittles down their hp fast. Most bunkers you see don’t run more than 15k hp tops. Trust me, you get 2 condition users on a bunker and he’ll drop like wubstep. Conditions are MUCH harder to repel than burst here and there.
When triple or quadruple bunker is a thing, you know it’s a problem.
Good luck with your whole double condition thing when you have a Guardian and a staff Ele on point. :P
“What we’re stating is that the bunker can take the full damage output of a glass cannon, someone who intended on going for the highest possible damage for their class, and it’s still effortlessly washed away, and the glass cannon is set on full cooldown while the bunker is full health and fighting at full performance.”
And what I’m saying is if full on burst classes were able to solo bunkers, there would be no point in have any other kind of build besides full on burst. Bunkers AND condition damage dealers would both be useless. There is balance among bunkers, regardless if you are willing to accept it.
You’d be surprised how having even 10 stacks of bleed on a bunker for 2 seconds whittles down their hp fast. Most bunkers you see don’t run more than 15k hp tops. Trust me, you get 2 condition users on a bunker and he’ll drop like wubstep. Conditions are MUCH harder to repel than burst here and there.
What bunkers are you going against to be talking about 10 stack bleeds whittling their health down within 2 seconds, are they running practically no regen? Engineers regeneration alone laughs at that, and even then they effortlessly remove conditions, if anything I’d say burn is a better counter than bleeds could ever be on someone with consistent condition removal.
Even then, if a bunkers getting kitten cause he had a 10 stack bleed on him, he wouldn’t be surviving normal burst then, you’re looking down on power crit builds. Warriors killshot hits for like 12k, and it’s instant damage, yet bunkers don’t care, their health shoots back up, and they’re running proper traits to counter things such as “10 stack bleeds”
Also, let me mind you, a bunker that’s actually “trying” can fight back & roll. You can’t consistently get 10 stack bleeds on him with all his disables.
Engineers spam knockback/immobilize all day. And guardian spams “can not pass” all day, along with aegis that completely negates the effect of your attack. You won’t stack bleeds on either of those. and conditions are nearly nonexistant on an elementalist who’s running one of their few viable bunker builds.
A bunker shouldn’t instantly drop in a 2v1, unless like I stated, you’re blowing all your utility and elite on this single person to get the point from him. (engi can rally himself too)
Also for you to consistently put out this much burst against the bunkers, it sounds like you’re standing off the point far away where he doesn’t continuously knock you down.
Cause really if a ranger shows up to a bunker with his bleed build, and the ranger pops quickness, the bunker will knock him down and he’ll waste quickness, byebye burst.
And if you’re talking about getting to 10 stack bleeds by spamming 1, then you’re exaggerating. The regen of an engi alone surpasses the damage of your average bleed stack. Then the actual impact heals are far greater.
Also if you’re running mesmer/ranger to stack your bleeds, then guardians will laugh at your projectiles.
The only way for someone to not see the problem with bunkers, is their lack of experience, they stay in spvp all day, or get lucky against scrubs in tournaments.
Reducing damage you take is fine. Negating all burst that was thrown on you with low cooldown heals, to act like it never happened is not fine.
Poison needs a rework imo, it should be a way stronger counter to heals to the point people would want to remove the poison before they heal. Right now ele can still yoyo their health despite poison being on them.
That or kill/nerf cleric/shaman amulets.
the GOOD bunkers aren’t common atm, but when you do encounter them for once, you’ll completely understand how anti-fun it is.
(edited by Almaz.2860)
“When triple or quadruple bunker is a thing, you know it’s a problem.
Good luck with your whole double condition thing when you have a Guardian and a staff Ele on point. :P”
You’re right, that’s a hell of a problem. Who would be stupid enough to send four people to try to take a single point on the map from 2 bunkers? Essentially if you ignore that point, you’re fighting 3vs5 everywhere else, which should give your team one hell of an advantage. You do realize there are 2 other points right? That’s entirely user error.
Er… You do realize it’s 3 Guardians, 1 Elementalist, 1 Mesmer, right? Ele/Guard on one point, Guard/Guard on another. Send your entire team to take a point, feel free. Enemy will happily cap the other one. Or while you’re sending your whole team to one point, the Mesmer just ports the rest of his team in. I’ve run into a comp just like this, and a few similar ones in the past week.
“What bunkers are you going against to be talking about 10 stack bleeds whittling their health down within 2 seconds, are they running practically no regen? Engineers regeneration alone laughs at that, and even then they effortlessly remove conditions, if anything I’d say burn is a better counter than bleeds could ever be on someone with consistent condition removal.”
Here’s your first error. Burst builds are countered by toughness and healing power, that’s not the case for condition builds. In every case, 2 condition users will be able to put way more conditions on a target than they can cleanse. That’s coming from a bunker ele traited fully for conditional removal. Not only do we have to cleanse the conditions, but we have to keep our health up as well. If I’m at full hp, but have 25 stacks of bleed on me and only my heal left, I’m essentially wasting my 7k heal (25 sec CD) just to remove those bleed stacks.
“Also, let me mind you, a bunker that’s actually “trying” can fight back & roll. You can’t consistently get 10 stack bleeds on him with all his disables.
Engineers spam knockback/immobilize all day. And guardian spams “can not pass” all day, along with aegis that completely negates the effect of your attack. You won’t stack bleeds on either of those. and conditions are nearly nonexistant on an elementalist who’s running one of their few viable bunker builds."
Sounds awfully 1vs1 here.
“The only way for someone to not see the problem with bunkers, is their lack of experience, they stay in spvp all day, or get lucky against scrubs in tournaments.”
Or you just have to understand the meta and play real tPvP games with coordination and collaboration.
“the GOOD bunkers aren’t common atm, but when you do encounter them for once, you’ll completely understand how anti-fun it is.”
Hahaha… oh you. I might even challenge you by saying “the good glass cannons aren’t common atm, but when you do encounter them for once, you’ll completely understand how anti-fun it is. DURP”
Edit – In no way, shape, or form am I saying bunkers are or aren’t too strong. All I’ve been saying is that burst is not meant to counter bunkers. That doesn’t make any sense.
(edited by Sezu.8564)
Er… You do realize it’s 3 Guardians, 1 Elementalist, 1 Mesmer, right? Ele/Guard on one point, Guard/Guard on another. Send your entire team to take a point, feel free. Enemy will happily cap the other one. Or while you’re sending your whole team to one point, the Mesmer just ports the rest of his team in. I’ve run into a comp just like this, and a few similar ones in the past week.
Honestly if you can’t 2vs4 there are deeper issues here than the bunkers. Getting a target up in pugs is especially helpful. I’ve run into multiple teams running 3+ bunkers and (here it goes again) communication is key. They are always the easiest teams to beat because once you have the points, you don’t lose them.
I agree, burst shouldn’t be the counter to bunkers. Bunkers should counter them. Sustained damage in the form of conditions or sustained power builds like SB Rangers should be the counter. Wear them down eventually type deal. Allows the bunkers enough time to call for reinforcements, while also allowing a duo to actually take on a bunker in a reasonable amount of time.
If burst counters bunkers, there is no real reason to bring anything but burst. That’s the crux of the problem if burst countered bunkers.
You can certainly lose the points just from the sheer number of knockbacks a few guardians can bring. It definitely buys enough time for them to grab a point, and chances are your team doesn’t bring the same amount of displacement. Also, you seem to miss or ignore where I say “Mesmer portals in the rest of the team, or they cap the point while you 2v4 their support/tank duo”.
(edited by Animosity.5231)
People who think that defensive (Bunker) build should be countered by glass cannon burst builds need to get a clue. Bunker builds are countered by sustained condition builds with poison and bleed stacking. You would think that this is intuitive as poison reduces incoming healing but to the masses of foaming-at-the-mouth burst players I suppose not.
Condition Damage counters Defensive Builds
Burst Damage counters Condition Builds
Defensive Builds counter Burst Damage
By and large this rock, paper scissors model is working pretty well.
Caltrop Thieves, Condition Necro, Pistol Engineer, and Short-bow Condition rangers can kill “Bunker” specs with ease.
I regularly eat 2 guardians up and can still heal to full health the way my necro is traited. If you don’t have a necro with you in tpvp it’s your own fault if you lose when you go up against them. I played tpvp a few times and fought multiple gaurdians, I easily kept my bleed/poison/chill/cripple/weakness/vulnerability up on all of them, because every attack I do is set up for AOE. They become almost useless when chilled(66% less movement speed and skills tkae 66% longer to recharge) I had them perma chilled lol, like 20 seconds of chill stacked on them and when it got to around 5 seconds left I stacked it again.
I struggle to see how a “bunker” necro can be so intimidating due to necros almost complete lack of stability. If you cant kill or move the necro then you just have to work around a bad matchup.
“Short-bow Condition rangers can kill “Bunker” specs with ease.”
——-
Ehm…no?
Balance. Really, balance is pretty good.
-Jonathan Sharp, game designer
-Jonathan Sharp, game designer
The recent shift to bunker heavy builds/strategy lowers the skill-cap of the game pretty significantly. Looking back to around two weeks ago, the emphasis was still on heavy roaming and knowing when to rotate your team around—there was a lot more communication and map control (off of cap points) needed. Now, with some bugs and bunkering up—teams can keep a point captured or neutralized for an extremely lengthy amount of time; it allows for a team to continuously keep coming back into the fight and contesting points.
Add that to the utility of Mesmer portal and the necessity and importance of roaming has become extremely limited. Faster and more mobile professions are hit hard by this as the advantage of being able to back-cap and/or move off of points to support your team elsewhere are countered hard.
Personally, I think that the favoring of portal and bunkers is detrimental to the meta. Doesn’t take much skill and recognition to roam anymore as the bulk of a team can pop through a portal and navigate through half the map in an instant, while other points are still solidly safe from being neutralized because of bunkers who can survive vs. multiples reliably.
Hot Boyz
Anvil Rock
Demonstrative/Bible/Sprankles
Anvil Rock
Demonstrative/Bible/Sprankles
(edited by demonstrative.9176)
Why would a glass cannon counter a bunker? How does that make any sense at all. Then everyone would purely run glass cannon builds. There’s some kind of epic logic fail going on here.
What we’re stating is that the bunker can take the full damage output of a glass cannon, someone who intended on going for the highest possible damage for their class, and it’s still effortlessly washed away, and the glass cannon is set on full cooldown while the bunker is full health and fighting at full performance.
If a bunker can withstand such damage output, then it can withstand any build that’s not completely sacrificing all survivability for damage.
You might think “a tanky class can beat a tanky class” but no, not in guild wars 2. Healing is strong, and on short cooldown, and the bunkers of this game always have a condition removal up, and amazing regeneration. Anyone that isn’t a glass cannon, has ignorable damage.A bunker vs a non glass-cannon = Endless fight, no one wins. (Unless the non-glass cannon just has a straight up useless build)
Whilst I agree currently some bunkers (notably guardian, not helped by people abusing the block expoit) are OP and effecting the meta too much, you are way wrong on the glass cannon being the counter, bunkers should precisely counter glass cannons (1v1), what they don’t counter is sustained damage, by builds that are not too squsihy so bunkers find it difficult to kill them.
For example condi necros are a good counter to guardians, because guardians low HP is susceptable to condi damage, the guardians strengths of all those boons can be countered by a necro, etc.
I struggle to see how a “bunker” necro can be so intimidating due to necros almost complete lack of stability. If you cant kill or move the necro then you just have to work around a bad matchup.
that’s the thing. im not a bunker necro. my condition damage does the same 207 damage per second tick for bleeding as it did when i was fully specced for pure offense. now i just use wells and the damage makes up for it and i actually get healed. the build i am can hands down beat the build i was at the same speed of damage per second for the conditions, execept my build now can out heal the build i was.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNAW7YjQaV6Zaia87JAJFPj90jvHX8IFEPMA is what i am now. owns guardians, not fast obviously, but with condition damage.
People who think that defensive (Bunker) build should be countered by glass cannon burst builds need to get a clue. Bunker builds are countered by sustained condition builds with poison and bleed stacking. You would think that this is intuitive as poison reduces incoming healing but to the masses of foaming-at-the-mouth burst players I suppose not.
Condition Damage counters Defensive Builds
Burst Damage counters Condition Builds
Defensive Builds counter Burst DamageBy and large this rock, paper scissors model is working pretty well.
Caltrop Thieves, Condition Necro, Pistol Engineer, and Short-bow Condition rangers can kill “Bunker” specs with ease.
Probably the most ignorant statement out there.
The goal of a “bunker” class is to not kill anyone. It is to delay them for your team to come in and fight. To hold the point 1v2 long enough for support.
If you’re having to use sustained damage over time, then the bunker has done his job. He will last long enough for his team to come in. Especially since you will have condition removal, which will delay their efforts even further.
The only condition class that could kill a bunker in decent time was a Ranger. But after the Shortbow nerf, they’re back to being useless.
So your so called “counter” isn’t countering them at all. They still perform their role.
(edited by Daays.4317)
People who think that defensive (Bunker) build should be countered by glass cannon burst builds need to get a clue. Bunker builds are countered by sustained condition builds with poison and bleed stacking. You would think that this is intuitive as poison reduces incoming healing but to the masses of foaming-at-the-mouth burst players I suppose not.
Condition Damage counters Defensive Builds
Burst Damage counters Condition Builds
Defensive Builds counter Burst DamageBy and large this rock, paper scissors model is working pretty well.
Caltrop Thieves, Condition Necro, Pistol Engineer, and Short-bow Condition rangers can kill “Bunker” specs with ease.
Probably the most ignorant statement out there.
The goal of a “bunker” class is to not kill anyone. It is to delay them for your team to come in and fight. To hold the point 1v2 long enough for support.
If you’re having to use sustained damage over time, then the bunker has done his job. He will last long enough for his team to come in. Especially since you will have condition removal, which will delay their efforts even further.
The only condition class that could kill a bunker in decent time was a Ranger. But after the Shortbow nerf, they’re back to being useless.
So your so called “counter” isn’t countering them at all. They still perform their role.
Implying a 40 milisecond nerf bringing attack speed to 2.04 per second instead of 2.2 (~8% nerf) makes a class useless.
No, THAT is the most ignorant statement out there.
The only nerf to rangers that has ever been significant was the greatsword nerf in beta.
(edited by tasbury.3674)
Sooo…using strategy to hold points ruins tpvp?
Sooo…using strategy to hold points ruins tpvp?
It requires less strategy than what was necessary before…
Hot Boyz
Anvil Rock
Demonstrative/Bible/Sprankles
Anvil Rock
Demonstrative/Bible/Sprankles
I struggle to see how a “bunker” necro can be so intimidating due to necros almost complete lack of stability. If you cant kill or move the necro then you just have to work around a bad matchup.
Plague is the best bunker skill in the game. 20 seconds stability, aoe blind every second? Yes please.
It does mean necros are somewhat gimmicky bunkers though because they are only super good at it for 20 seconds of every 3 minutes.
My team strategy is for someone to hold a point though out the game, it would be STUPiD to make someone squishy hold it, so I changed my build to fit our teams strat
A think bunkers holding specific points requires a lot more strategy than everyone just running around in glass cannon mode.
Bunkers are supposed to counter glass cannons, not the other way around.
You want people who stack lots of condition damage and turn boons into conditions to take down bunkers. naturally bunkers will bring condition removal too, but this makes them weaker to glass cannon types.
Implying a 40 milisecond nerf bringing attack speed to 2.04 per second instead of 2.2 (~8% nerf) makes a class useless.
If that were actually the case, you’d be right. Unfortunately, there’s a bug related to the change: the cast time of Crossfire under the effects of Quickening Zephyr and Zephyr’s Speed are measureably closer to a .4 second increase, not .04. When using their only real burst abilities, Rangers are doing ~30% less damage than they were before the patch. For a class that was already mid-tier (at best), that’s a pretty significant hit.
Could someone possibly pull a bunker out of the circle for 4 seconds while someone else removes the cap?
Sounds like a strategy to counter it.
Guardian worst bunker class? okkkay buddy
stopped reading your post there
what do you expect when he claims that a necro can get invulnerable (I guess he means death shroud) and (I love that part) heals to full while sitting in the DS
(edited by Asmodean.5820)
I struggle to see how a “bunker” necro can be so intimidating due to necros almost complete lack of stability. If you cant kill or move the necro then you just have to work around a bad matchup.
Plague is the best bunker skill in the game. 20 seconds stability, aoe blind every second? Yes please.
It does mean necros are somewhat gimmicky bunkers though because they are only super good at it for 20 seconds of every 3 minutes.
…until the enemy mesmer finds his moa morph button
I do not call 2 full on condition builds blowing all their utility and elites to kill one person, a “counter” I call that them wasting all their cooldowns to be kittened for the next fight, while they get outcapped elsewhere for missing a man.
Out of the 500 tourny wins, I have yet to see condition users be a problem for me, or our other bunkers.
And we’ll gladly always be happy to have every fight with us outnumbering them, cause their teammate is screaming for help to get this bunker off a point.
Won’t let me edit, but I forgot to mention that I only been talking about situations where a bunker is alone, and you’re sending 2 people to leave their spot to deal with him, that are specifically condition spec. In a teamfight there will be a bunker in there somewhere, are you going to seriously tell your condition specs to focus the bunker instead of their damage builds? No. And when you focus their high bursty classes, you’ll realize the insane amount of support they’re getting, that can’t be stopped because of the unkillable bunker next to them, healing them fully.. disabling you the entire time, spamming knockdown all day, and keeping you immobilized. and if the burst class somehow manages to go down, they’ll just pop a trusty skill to revive them with ease, and the fight continues.
Even if you somehow managed to kill all their burst classes, your utility and elites should be on cooldown, making it where you don’t have enough damage to outburst their heals even in a 2v1, making it take a minute for you to kill him.
Stop going against Pugs, and you’ll realize how these superior comps with bunkers in them work.
Then again, I forgot most people on the forums judge things based off pugs and 8v8 spvp, or their first experience with a bunker.
Yes they do ruin tPvP and sPvP also
ANet said THEY DON’T WANT TO HAVE TANKS OR HEALERS in GW2 … and what do we have now? we got hardcore bunkers with hardcore Health Regen and Block … so both things they didn’t want to have are simply in 1 profession now (mostly Guardian, Ele Engineer)
People NEED to run Glass Cannon builds to be able to get those bunkers down … so what do bunkers do? exactly THEY DO FORCE OTHER PLAYERS TO PLAY GLASS CANNON BUILDS just to deal with them … I personally don’t like to run Glass Cannon but what else should I do? if me and my teammate both would run into a fight with a balanced build that we might like … we couldn’t even stand the smallest chance to drop the bunker unless we would come up with maybe 3 balance builded ppl.
Not to mention that it really destroys the gameplay for some professions that simply can’t do as much burst as others can.
if I would run my thief with S/D (a build I really like) and would build him around a balance build with medium dmg and medium health every bunker would just stay there while laughing.
There CAN be bunkers … but they should be able to get dropped in a 1vs1 even if the 1v1 might last longer.
Most Tourney setups right now do simply run 2x Bunker Guardian + Thief + Necro +Engineer or Ele and if you as random group gonna meet a setup like that then you’re simply lost and either as premade group it’s just soooo annoying to fight bunker setups because it’s not fun anymore it’s just frustrating to see them getting back to full health every few seconds or to see them getting revived and instantly being back on full Health and the fun gonna start again.
(edited by Umweltplakette.2109)
Sounds like all the complainers in this thread aren’t using boon removal. You might want to look into it.
Edit – Also, I’d like to challenge you all to play a bunker in tPvP, and tell me which kills you faster. Burst or condition damage.
Edit edit – I’d also like to add that their is quite a bit of exaggerating situations in this thread. Either that or you’re all just terrible terrible players.
(edited by Sezu.8564)
Sezu I guess you did never play against 2-3 good Bunker Guardians in 1 team … what the hell should boon removal help about this? not to mention I can just steal 2 boons every 45 and this only happens WHEN TRAITED
Not everyone likes to choose traits just to counter bunker builds as it already has been mentioned … so please start to read the posts first
Ok moreover I believe you’re a bunker player yourself and you enjoy bullying people with endless Health regeneration and blocks.
Edit – I already did play a bunker guardian in tPvP just to get tears in my eyes when I saw how horrible easy it was to play it … I didn’t even care about if I was attacked by condition or Brust builds … neither of these did kill me in a 1v1 because all my CDs just came back up … mostly I just have been dropped by at least 3 ppl and this already took them tons of time lol
Sounds like all the complainers in this thread aren’t using boon removal. You might want to look into it.
Edit – Also, I’d like to challenge you all to play a bunker in tPvP, and tell me which kills you faster. Burst or condition damage.
Edit edit – I’d also like to add that their is quite a bit of exaggerating situations in this thread. Either that or you’re all just terrible terrible players.
When testing out an engy bunker build, condition removal and regeneration + boons were key. You’d essentially need these to preserve you long enough between the intervals of your major heals.
I outlasted many forms of damage (burst, condition, DoT—you name it), but what would truly make the job extremely difficult included the guys who came in with boon removal (typically necros and mesmers), robbing me of protection, regeneration and sometimes stability (if I ran elixir S instead of C), leaving me with traited kit regeneration and healing through skills. If those were on cooldown, my survivability would plummet. Add in poisons (heals become worse) and confusion (bomb kit healing loses its effectiveness), and you have a recipe for disaster.
I can’t speak for ele or guardian, but the boons bunker engy’s receive are highly vital to their survival. They can’t generate them as easily as the guardian, so the ones they receive from trait effects and elixirs (mainly conversions from C), are what they have (save regeneration from the elixer gun and healing turret). They just need it to last until they can heal again.
I will not dismiss the strength of bunker builds, however. They are pretty strong, but most of my experiences consisted of players continuously just dealing out their skills to try to out-damage the healing. The few coordinated times, though, enemies would chain a couple CC skills while removing boons, essentially eliminating any opportunities to heal.
After that, you’d go down fast (almost as if you weren’t even running the build). I can still attest to the fact that bunkers are strong, but maybe more players need to adapt their approach; it could be a possibility.
(edited by The Sole Witness.1670)
Can’t seem to figure out why you guys think you have to kill the bunkers. All you have to do is contest the point 1v1 and then stay alive. If you can’t stay alive against a bunker you might be doing something wrong.
So really, control is also a viable counter.
Also, as the above poster said atm most dps just faceroll their damage buttons and hope to kill their opponent. How many of you thieves have honestly even considered whittling away at the bunker before dropping your burst and cc. I mean, it seems pretty obvious to me but, honestly, I see so few thieves thinking outside the spam highest damage skill mold.
Get creative guise.
(edited by Recursivision.2367)
“Sezu I guess you did never play against 2-3 good Bunker Guardians in 1 team … what the hell should boon removal help about this? not to mention I can just steal 2 boons every 45 and this only happens WHEN TRAITED”
I’ve played many teams with 2+ guardians, however, “good” is an entirely subjective word. Boon removal is ridiculously important, if you can’t see that than tough luck.
“Not everyone likes to choose traits just to counter bunker builds as it already has been mentioned … so please start to read the posts first”
LOL what? You’re complaining about bunkers being too strong without building to kill bunkers? What’s your purpose in tPvP if not to kill bunkers as a roamer? I really don’t understand.
“Ok moreover I believe you’re a bunker player yourself and you enjoy bullying people with endless Health regeneration and blocks.”
I play both bunker and roamer, but whatever. They have CDs just like you do.
Edit – I already did play a bunker guardian in tPvP just to get tears in my eyes when I saw how horrible easy it was to play it … I didn’t even care about if I was attacked by condition or Brust builds … neither of these did kill me in a 1v1 because all my CDs just came back up … mostly I just have been dropped by at least 3 ppl and this already took them tons of time lol
No kitten. Bunkers are built to not die 1vs1. Congrats.
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