Guild Wars 2

One of the most reliable ways to spot a bad player is based on how much they whine about bunkers.

Shaolin, that is absolutely incorrect, characters built with the tools to bring bunkers down can do so solo, although that is normally not a very efficient way to things. Just because you are not capable of creating the right build/using them effectively does not mean they do not exist.

Seether.7285:

One of the most reliable ways to spot a bad player is based on how much they whine about bunkers.

Shaolin, that is absolutely incorrect, characters built with the tools to bring bunkers down can do so solo, although that is normally not a very efficient way to things. Just because you are not capable of creating the right build/using them effectively does not mean they do not exist.

Which is why 1v1 balance is important otherwise it’s always about the build, not about the player.

hehe, Bunkers what every, DPS ok?, support roamer its all “OP” in the eyes of the unskilled it all comes down to meta and what people have experience with a good player is well rounded in all areas of a game.

if you cant kill a bunker make a bunker research everything you can about them become a bunker and you “can” beat them on a none bunker class. same with any class or role in this game or any games i have every played yet.

If you disagree your the newb im talking about!

Gilgamesh. I know bunkers are not about damage. I am saying having a necro built like me legit makes 2 guardians specced with best bunker build vs me completely useless.

I have fought 2 of them in tpvp before and took the point from them. They can’t deal any damage to me when they permanently deal 50% less damage for normal attacks, most guardian bunkers have almost no crit chance.

Then on top of that, I blind them for 5 seconds straight, then group aoe blind once every 15 second ish or 20. My slot 3 cripples them for 5 seconds and gives me retaliation for 3 and 1/2 per person I hit with hit. + 16 seconds of protection from well, deathshroud = another 3.5 seconds of retaliation.

So I have 33% reduce incoming damage (for 16 seconds every 36 seconds), and reflect 33% damage can almost be permanently upheld with my build, while making them permanently have 50% less endurance regen, poison, bleeding, chill, cripple, while my wells siphon health, my mark gives me health regen, my dodge gives me health regen, swapping weapons heals me for about 975 ish every 9 seconds. and I have 2 moves that transfer my conditions back to them which come back pretty fast.

I would argue the guardian bunker is the most worthless thing to hold a point compared to what I can do. Rangers have a better chance beating me than 2 guardian bunkers, which I soloed with ease and took a point. It all depends on who is defending the point. If a thief runs up on me, I know because I have marks all over that warn me when their animations go off is someone is coming at me. Then I wait till they are on top of me, Cast blindness, then cast 5 second blindness well that blinds them every second for 5 seconds. Then AOE fear, then Death shroud fear, Golem knockdown, chill + cripple. That’s an easy 10 seconds of making a thief completely useless. The well I cast = 33% reduce incoming damage, I already used retaliation, so basically the thief kills themselves. It works almost all the time beaucase Death Shroud = instant cast and gives me retaliation.

If any necro dies to a thief it’s because we were worrying about fighting somebody else, and even then we usually can hit F1 really quick. It is funny as hell seeing a thief who would have hit a 18k on me reflect a 6k back on himself.

Many people have said that playing a bunker is fairly easy which explains why you see keyboard turning clickers able to hold a node with a bunker build, their playstyle is slow, plenty of room for mistakes, half of them can’t even defend against a burst and they eat the full burst, but not like it matters because one heal and they’re almost full if not completely full health. GW2 currently allows specializations to go way too far, you get ridiculous glass cannons and ridiculous bunker builds.

shaolin.9716:

Many people have said that playing a bunker is fairly easy which explains why you see keyboard turning clickers able to hold a node with a bunker build, their playstyle is slow, plenty of room for mistakes, half of them can’t even defend against a burst and they eat the full burst, but not like it matters because one heal and they’re almost full if not completely full health. GW2 currently allows specializations to go way too far, you get ridiculous glass cannons and ridiculous bunker builds.

well bunkers like that only play in spvp… if you see someone playing like that in tpvp = 5 vs 4

Bunkers are not the problem. Players who want to run around in glass cannon mode and never have to adopt tactics are the problems.

There are many classes that can wreak havoc with bunker builds (necro being the most easily learned). So then you have roamers, damage, bunkers, and anti-bunkers.

That sounds way more fun than 5 thieves running around in full glass cannon mode which is what the game would come down to with no bunkers.

@Jason

Once again, this isn’t about damage. The only time you’d be fighting a guardian 1v1 is at the beginning of FoN and in BoK.

Necros have no knockbacks and your fear is counterd by stability. You’re going to be knocked off the point constantly in those two maps due to necros having no access to stability.

You’re not going to kill the guardian in time before help arrives. And if help arrives for both you and him at the same time, he can simply hallowed ground and book heal his team back to full.

Then consider in team fights your team is going to be hard pressed to get stomps off from the lack of group stability. If your teammates go down, the lack of group stability makes res’ing them in time that much harder.

Case of good on paper. Bad in game.

Vorpal.4683:

Bunkers are not the problem. Players who want to run around in glass cannon mode and never have to adopt tactics are the problems.

There are many classes that can wreak havoc with bunker builds (necro being the most easily learned). So then you have roamers, damage, bunkers, and anti-bunkers.

That sounds way more fun than 5 thieves running around in full glass cannon mode which is what the game would come down to with no bunkers.

You honestly think a team of 5 thieves with no stability would win any fight? It doesn’t matter if they all focus fire one guy, then another, then another. It’s not enough to stop the res’ing before they all die from AoE damage and retal.

If you honestly believe that defensive and slow game play should be more rewarding than fast and offensive game play, I invite you to review the 3x healer games @ Blizzcon. Can enjoy 45mins+ each game of no one dying and people just running around in circles.

Vorpal.4683:

Bunkers are not the problem. Players who want to run around in glass cannon mode and never have to adopt tactics are the problems.

There are many classes that can wreak havoc with bunker builds (necro being the most easily learned). So then you have roamers, damage, bunkers, and anti-bunkers.

That sounds way more fun than 5 thieves running around in full glass cannon mode which is what the game would come down to with no bunkers.

This guy has played more than one profession. Well said.

Many people have said that playing a bunker is fairly easy which explains why you see keyboard turning clickers able to hold a node with a bunker build, their playstyle is slow, plenty of room for mistakes, half of them can’t even defend against a burst and they eat the full burst, but not like it matters because one heal and they’re almost full if not completely full health. GW2 currently allows specializations to go way too far, you get ridiculous glass cannons and ridiculous bunker builds.

There is not one skill level per build. Every build/playstyle has a skill-floor and skill-ceiling. You just cited skill-floor bunkers. There’s also skill-floor DPS, such as Heartseeker spamming theives. Neither are hard to play at the skill-floor. Neither will get you very far in high-ranked tournament play.

Who still runs full bunker anyway necro is hard counter. Balanced is much better as a point guard you lose the ability to 1v3 for any time while still being able to hold a 1v2 for 20ish seconds. While you gain the ability to 1v1 those glass cannons easily making the match a 5v4 when you leave them in the downed state. If I see a double bunker guardian group I just watch as they get shredded by the necro.

I don’t think bunkers are the issue. it’s the point-control game mode that makes them a necessity, and there’s nothing wrong with that IMO. Additional/alternate game modes could change that necessity drastically though and make more/other builds viable within in a different context.

Daays.4317:

@Jason

Once again, this isn’t about damage. The only time you’d be fighting a guardian 1v1 is at the beginning of FoN and in BoK.

Necros have no knockbacks and your fear is counterd by stability. You’re going to be knocked off the point constantly in those two maps due to necros having no access to stability.

You’re not going to kill the guardian in time before help arrives. And if help arrives for both you and him at the same time, he can simply hallowed ground and book heal his team back to full.

Then consider in team fights your team is going to be hard pressed to get stomps off from the lack of group stability. If your teammates go down, the lack of group stability makes res’ing them in time that much harder.

Case of good on paper. Bad in game.

Vorpal.4683:

Bunkers are not the problem. Players who want to run around in glass cannon mode and never have to adopt tactics are the problems.

There are many classes that can wreak havoc with bunker builds (necro being the most easily learned). So then you have roamers, damage, bunkers, and anti-bunkers.

That sounds way more fun than 5 thieves running around in full glass cannon mode which is what the game would come down to with no bunkers.

You honestly think a team of 5 thieves with no stability would win any fight? It doesn’t matter if they all focus fire one guy, then another, then another. It’s not enough to stop the res’ing before they all die from AoE damage and retal.

If you honestly believe that defensive and slow game play should be more rewarding than fast and offensive game play, I invite you to review the 3x healer games @ Blizzcon. Can enjoy 45mins+ each game of no one dying and people just running around in circles.

It’s great that you tell me its great on paper and not in game when I am rank 21 in spvp and having played 93% of the games on my necro…. which is over 70 hours of learning everything about what my class does….

k thx bai. keep being a baddie and necros have stability for 3 seconds every 10 seconds + elite skill is 30 seconds of stability. I dont need to stand on the point to fight him… I stand off the point because me being on it he will just knock me off. I DPS the hell out of him while he stands there looking at me wondering what he can do. If he has a ranged attack it’s not going to do anything to me as i can regen/protection/retaliation/fumble through it and basically never take any damage. I regularly beat guardians and I have full health when I am done and my heal is back + all wells. If he wants to stand on the point he can eat my 4 wells I throw down on him + 4 marks, + golem hitting for 770-1500+ DPS, endless bleeding with my sceptor default attack and blood is power = 12,000 bleed over 42 seconds and ticks for around 280 per second.

You are kind of right in it being hard for me to just hold onto a point by myself, but it’s not really that big of an issue because you do 2 2 on points and 1 roaming. so your arguement doesn’t really hold up.

Sadly, they are infesting sPvP as well. It seems every other Guardian, Engineer, or Elementalist is a bunker spec.

People play bunker because being downed in 3 hits by a thief or mesmer followed by an invisible stomp is stupid (What’s funny is even as a bunker build this can still happen).

I don’t know what else needs to be said about it…I mean why would anyone want fights in this game to be even quicker? I play a bunker engineer and it’s way more fun than my Mesmer who’s pure glass cannon. Why? Because I actually have time to think about what skills to use instead of just re-using the exact same rotation as many times as I can before getting hit a few times and dying.

What’s worse is, it’s really not that hard to beat a bunker 1v1 if you build your character right. I will lose every time to a necro, ranger, or mesmer who knows what they’re doing. Unfortunately (or I guess for me, fortunately :P) most players are bad and have no idea what they’re doing.

Until Anet does not nerf mesmers-thieves-warriors, nothing will change, these 3 classes are the only ones allowed to go full glass cannon with little or no consequence when focused on, even balanced builds will tend more toward toughness than power otherwise you just get 2-3 shotted by those 3, I’m glad Anet will change this.

All burst in this game should be lowered to the ele level, of course once done this the bunker builds must be looked upon as well, overly defensive bunker builds are bullkitten as well.

We’ve got 2 extremes which must be eliminated as soon as possible

Unfortunately (or I guess for me, fortunately :P) most players are bad and have no idea what they’re doing.

Or, you just aren’t a very good bunker. That is much more likely than your answer. A good Bunker isn’t going to die 1v1, and if they did it would take a long time and they would have to make some mistakes.