Guild Wars 2

Im kind of annoyed by bunker wars lately, met a lot of teams with composition of bunker ele, bunker mesmer, guardian, bomb kit bunker engineer and ussualy class X.

So, stealing point solo is no longer an option mesmer or another bunker lives long enough for help to arrive, meaning builds with solo roamer no longer work stealing points. So you either make 2 roamers and have -1 person in middle/close point but chance of stealing their point(gives disadvantage to your team anyways) or you also bunker up.

Not gonna call for nerfs, but what do you think about meta which is all about better bunkers.

P.S. who wanted to say you can steal 1on1, play more paid tourneys, atm its next to imposible to solo 1v1 point vs any of classes mentioned above.

Gee, this thread for the 10000th time.

Yes bunkers are annoying and no the meta wont ever change so long as the only game mode is conquest, you know, where you need to actually hold objectives…

Aga.8641:

Gee, this thread for the 10000th time.

Yes bunkers are annoying and no the meta wont ever change so long as the only game mode is conquest, you know, where you need to actually hold objectives…

Well, thing is balanced teams do well in touraments. Bunker teams win against most balanced teams if they got equal skill. Bunker teams counter is… none even if you kill bunker he holded point much more longer then we we gained by killing him.

simple way to fix bunkers in PvP: change the point capture mechanic

currently it only takes one person standing on the node to completely stop the capping process. simple solution is to change that to one that scales by numbers of teammates. i.e. as soon as 2v1 the point will be conceded at half the rate of uncontested, 3v1 point will be conceded at 75% of uncontested rate, etc. numbers are whatever, you get the idea.

the whole issue is one guy in a particular build can hold out against 3 or 4 people long enough to let his teammates come from the other side of the map to assist (not the problem), meanwhile the team assaulting with greater numbers has made no progress on neutralizing the node because of a lone defender (the problem).

In fact lately i have been feeling changes in effectiveness in armor. Bunkers are getting harder to play and it feel easier to deal dmg to them compared to before halloween.
I dont like Arenanet screwing with armor though because armor wasnt the thing that made some bunkers so strong and they are really hurting hybrid people atm. People who dont wanna play bunker, but also not a glass cannon. People who rely on armor and power instead of the armor/avoidance/massive healing of bunkers or the power/precision and 0 armor of glass cannons.

Bunker are fine now in my opinion, but as i see it some other viable hybrid builds took an unnecary beating for it to, innocent casualties

Push the bunker out of the point, then uncap but don’t cap the point (it goes white and no one owns it, its a lot faster then taking the point) he will have to recap the point, buying your team some time with the other 2 points you own.

Well. Bunker teams did get a nice buff recently. I’m talking about ele downstate buff. It means if you run against ele/guardian on the same point you can’t go after ele. You have to take down guardian first. Otherwise ele just jumps next to guardian/far away teammate and gets easy revive.

Focusfiring a guardian however…you know…

At the same time, if you still run 3 dps 2 tanks, if you have enough immobilize and enough stability for stomps, you should be able to focus tanks down one at a time while they just lack damage on you.

And those bunker mesmers you talk about. They still are considered as dps. Being a tanky dps does not make you a tank yet.

But yeah, like said before. Its not problem of tanks, its problem of the gamemode.

If you think bunkers are bad to play against, try playing one. Talk about both boring and basically relying on your teammates to win the match for you. Playing a bunker means never being targeted in a team fight, so you get to do pitiful damage/cc/healing while waiting for the fight to end.

You always have the advantage 1v1 so its just very easy to stall. It’s very low skill cap and 1/2 the time you stare at wall. Compared to a high damage class, no one in the guild wants to play the role, and you lose fairly easily w/o them.

Well. Bunker teams did get a nice buff recently. I’m talking about ele downstate buff. It means if you run against ele/guardian on the same point you can’t go after ele. You have to take down guardian first. Otherwise ele just jumps next to guardian/far away teammate and gets easy revive.

bunker eles is one of the professions who also got nerfed in our armor effectiveness lately though not announced and they are still working/changing it …
people who run one feel the difference atm

i dont like bunker though, rather play hybrid.. survival combined with high dmg always is fun

Bunkers are op because heals / protection / toughness are infinitely much better than offensive stats. People playing bunkers sacrifice much less than those playing glass cannons, yet if they’re lucky enough for their glass cannons to ‘carry them’ they get the same reward. Its the same in pve, if you have a tank , he rarely ever gets killed (unless everyone else gets killed) but your dps can get 2shotted

if that point would get neutralised when same amount of people in circle of conquest, then bunker plays wouldnt be so effective

Tilki.8520:

if that point would get neutralised when same amount of people in circle of conquest, then bunker plays wouldnt be so effective

that would be a huge buff to mesmer

Sanis.1096:

Tilki.8520:

if that point would get neutralised when same amount of people in circle of conquest, then bunker plays wouldnt be so effective

that would be a huge buff to mesmer

why? you mean portals? if its that portals already overpovered, especially for kyhlo, they should make it elite skill and destructible imo
this way i dont think bunkers would be such a pain

Bunkers are op because heals / protection / toughness are infinitely much better than offensive stats. People playing bunkers sacrifice much less than those playing glass cannons, yet if they’re lucky enough for their glass cannons to ‘carry them’ they get the same reward. Its the same in pve, if you have a tank , he rarely ever gets killed (unless everyone else gets killed) but your dps can get 2shotted

Exactly. I’m tired of fighting teams of 4 bunkers and a mesmer/dps. For giggles I ran a pure glass cannon spec last night (you know, the 12+k backstab burst spec yall complain about) and had little to no effect in tourney’s that were bunker heavy. Their ability to knock down, knock back, deflect, heal, invulnerable, or otherwise compliment their already insane survivability consistently negated my damage. At one point in a match I took the high ground and started to plink away at one of them with my short bow and he stood there and /waved at me as he was easily able to heal MORE than the bow was doing even with crits of around 1500.

This aside, the issue is not in bunkers themselves (though I do feel they need to be taken down a notch – no one should be able to solo 80% of a team (4 players) and come out ahead) but rather in the game mode. If tourneys went:

Game 1 – CTF
Game 2 – Conquest
Game 3 – Siege/Kill the Lord

You’d have a very different meta game. DPS would be valuable again in siege, mobility and CC paramount in CTF, and bunkers shining in Conquest.

Unfortunately this is not the case and due to that team comps (for those solely interested in winning) will continue to focus on beaing bunker heavy running 3 or 4 bunkers/heavy defense and one mesmer for portals.

There is no reason to run anything else, period and because of this PVP is one-sided, predictable, dull and frustrating for having to be pigeon-holed into a very specific composition to be remotely competitive in the tPVP meta game.

Aga.8641:

Gee, this thread for the 10000th time.

Yes bunkers are annoying and no the meta wont ever change so long as the only game mode is conquest, you know, where you need to actually hold objectives…

New PvP Game Mode coming in November.

This is what i picture every bunker to be like, if they were real people. Just change it to “I heal myself and knock you down”

Tilki.8520:

Sanis.1096:

Tilki.8520:

if that point would get neutralised when same amount of people in circle of conquest, then bunker plays wouldnt be so effective

that would be a huge buff to mesmer

why? you mean portals? if its that portals already overpovered, especially for kyhlo, they should make it elite skill and destructible imo
this way i dont think bunkers would be such a pain

yea portals are alredy OP,but that does not mean you should make them more op and yes it should be destructible

Think the sad thing is it’s required for every map as long as conquest stays the same 1cap system and not a team cap system.

So bigger question is should a spec no one enjoys playing be a requirement for every single map?

Bunkers aren’t by design. This game is meant to have no trinity. Everyone is meant to be DPS. No pure tanks or healers.

It’s an oversight that bunkers came to be. People realized dumping all their points into the two defensive traitlines made them great point defenders.

Even in other map types bunkers can still thrive. Capture-the-flag suits bunkers well as the flag holder. Bunkers usually have a lot of CC, which could make them useful in deathmatch-style map (3v3/5v5) to CC a target for switches.

Still, I believe the only way to discourage bunkers is to adjust maps and mechanics.

* Conquest: You should never be able to hold a point when outnumbered.
* Capture-the-flag: Flag holder receives a debuff that increases damage taken. This starts very low like 1%. It increases over time. This is vital to prevent turtling. WoW does this and it works.
* Deathmatch/other: Diminishing returns on CC. (this would be needed for deathmatch anyway, as CC is ridiculous in this game)

Revelstoke.8924:

Exactly. I’m tired of fighting teams of 4 bunkers and a mesmer/dps. For giggles I ran a pure glass cannon spec last night (you know, the 12+k backstab burst spec yall complain about) and had little to no effect in tourney’s that were bunker heavy. Their ability to knock down, knock back, deflect, heal, invulnerable, or otherwise compliment their already insane survivability consistently negated my damage. At one point in a match I took the high ground and started to plink away at one of them with my short bow and he stood there and /waved at me as he was easily able to heal MORE than the bow was doing even with crits of around 1500.

There are not many teams running 4 bunkers, and they aren’t effective. Also, backstab thieves aren’t the counter to bunkers, condi Necros and Engis are the counter. Backstab thieves are horrible against bunkers since most bunkers have high toughness and a large protection uptime. Guardians have aegis as well which can stop thieves from pulling off their damage.

A bunker is pretty much the counter to the exact build you were running, and you wonder why you were struggling? lol

I think to many people are confusing balanced with bunker as well.

Some guy some comments above said that bunkers arent by design because with no trinity everyone must be dps.

That kind of stuff makes people commit suicide over the idiocy of that comment. I would watch out before you hurt some1 with that non-logical nonesense

Kind of have to agree with Timeraider. By taking the stance of ‘there is no trinity, everything can DPS/Support/Tank’ then you’re basically saying a thief can play bunker and a guardian can burst for 12k in one hit…

Simply not true.

A bunker is pretty much the counter to the exact build you were running, and you wonder why you were struggling? lol

So what you’re saying is there’s a spec that completely negates mine and utterly destroys me in combat?

And people wonder where the rock, paper, scissor comments keep coming from. Why do I have to run a condition spec to deal with bunkers and a cannon spec to deal with casters? Ill take that one step further and say that tournaments are immediately, before the game even starts, in favor of one team or another based on whos spec naturally counters another…correct? Say I join a tourney, we have 2 cond specs against their 3 bunkers. Hooray! Now instead pretend they are cannon spec against the same bunkers. Immediate disadvantage.

THAT…should never happen or you’ve created a natural imbalance that can’t be overcome by skill or altered mid-game (a-la changing specs in RIFT).

Yes, I am saying that in a team game it is possible that you will not have the tools to deal with every type of opponent with every build. Of all the bunkers, guardians tend to be the best counter to thieves due to their high inherent armor, active mitigation (aegis and blinds) which are strong counters to thief burst and high retaliation up-time which takes its toll on the low hp thief class.

Like I stated in my other post a condi Engi or Necro are the best counter for bunker guardians. Guardians are not the only bunker though, lets look at the case of a bunker Ele. Bunker ele in general have lower toughness and more condition removal than a guardian. Against a bunker ele, a thief is a much better counter than either a condi Engi or Necro. Different classes/builds have different strengths/weaknesses. It isn’t a pure rock-paper-scissor system as different builds allow for different performance against different classes and individual specs used by those classes.

As long as thieves and warriors can kill people in 1 seconds those people will spec bunker. Nerf burst damage hard, and bunkers become a lot less neccessary (and can even be nerfed too).