Guild Wars 2

Thanks to everyone talking about how OP burn builds are, I decided to try one. It is definitely fun.

A few thoughts:

1. It is way easier to apply condis than it is for someone to remove them.
2. It is insanely easy to play
3. Does higher burst than someone who is specced in zerker or maurader.
4. Being able to run rabid or carrion is really nice since I get either vit or toughness. Cele is good as well.

For those of you who haven’t tried, definitely do it. Burn guard, burn engi, burn ranger, or cele ele. All are good. It might be tough in the top end play, but for the other 98% of you, it will work well and is by far the easiest way to play PvP.

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

smiley.4739:

Thanks to everyone talking about how OP burn builds are, I decided to try one. It is definitely fun.

A few thoughts:

1. It is way easier to apply condis than it is for someone to remove them.
2. It is insanely easy to play
3. Does higher burst than someone who is specced in zerker or maurader.
4. Being able to run rabid or carrion is really nice since I get either vit or toughness. Cele is good as well.

For those of you who haven’t tried, definitely do it. Burn guard, burn engi, burn ranger, or cele ele. All are good. It might be tough in the top end play, but for the other 98% of you, it will work well and is by far the easiest way to play PvP.

1. Duh? Any offense needs to be greater than its associated defenses or else the fight goes nowhere.
2. Against baddies, sure. You get wrecked by someone packing Sigil of Generosity. Yeah, a piece of equipment counters your build.
3. Not true, just easier to land because people don’t know what to dodge. Zerker burst is definitely way higher.
4. That is nice, yes, but also a requirement. Condition builds need more time to kill, so it helps if you can actually delay dying.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

smiley.4739:

Thanks to everyone talking about how OP burn builds are, I decided to try one. It is definitely fun.

A few thoughts:

1. It is way easier to apply condis than it is for someone to remove them.
2. It is insanely easy to play
3. Does higher burst than someone who is specced in zerker or maurader.
4. Being able to run rabid or carrion is really nice since I get either vit or toughness. Cele is good as well.

For those of you who haven’t tried, definitely do it. Burn guard, burn engi, burn ranger, or cele ele. All are good. It might be tough in the top end play, but for the other 98% of you, it will work well and is by far the easiest way to play PvP.

1. Duh? Any offense needs to be greater than its associated defenses or else the fight goes nowhere.
2. Against baddies, sure. You get wrecked by someone packing Sigil of Generosity. Yeah, a piece of equipment counters your build.
3. Not true, just easier to land because people don’t know what to dodge. Zerker burst is definitely way higher.
4. That is nice, yes, but also a requirement. Condition builds need more time to kill, so it helps if you can actually delay dying.

Generosity is completely luck based and requires crits in your build. Zerker burst is higher if the guy is AFK yes, conditions require you to be built around specifically stopping them, if conditions need time to kill then revert the change back to the old system in PvP to remove this condition burst, the majority of games do not have shout bunkers to hump so they can have a balanced fight.

Burn builds are definitely good for killing scrubs.

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Saiyan.1704:

You’re right, condition builds have always been easier to play than Zerks, Maurauders, etc.

The question is whether or not these “easy” builds are suppose to be viable in competitive and solo play. A lot of players think they shouldn’t be viable.. when it’s a derivative version of Power damage.

Power / Sustains / Conditions
They’re all suppose to work equally. No one said they’re all suppose to be on the same difficulty. (Bunk builds are braindead specs too)

Only brain dead bunker builds are Warriors and Guardians.

I disagree

The glory days of Turret engies applied mostly physical damage and CC interrupts. You could equip a useless ammy like Magi and your turrets would still do the same damage. The turret’s tankiness were also independent from your own.

That’s not the case with burn builds.

The only thing that I think you want burn builds to have in common with turrets is to have burn builds get nerfed like turret.

That’s the problem with people these days. If you cant kill something, then it must be nerfed.

Sadly turret engies where punished to the point of uselessness because people complained instead of counter.

How could you have countered turret engies?

1. Cele rifle 2kit engie
2. staff ele
3. shatter Mesmer
4. condi Mesmer
6. trap ranger
7. power wells necro
8. MM necro

I guess the OP of this thread wants burn builds to suffer the same fate as the turret engie….which clearly had powerful counters but people were too lazy to learn how to apply them.

And it worked! anet awarded complainers instead of making them adapt. anet punished turreteers coz……

Lets just say that while I didn’t play turret, I didn’t like how it got nerfed and I’ll do everything I can to prevent burn builds from the same fate

I have more of a problem with the boon stacking celestial elixir build. 2 kits, etc… that one is a tough cookie.

smiley.4739:

1. It is way easier to apply condis than it is for someone to remove them.

As someone said, you need more offense than defense. However, there is more counter to condis than there is to power damage: you can cleanse it, you can heal it.

2. It is insanely easy to play

Why? For example burn guardian (the one people complain most often) is just media-guard with different traits. Why would that be easier? Yep, it isn’t.

3. Does higher burst than someone who is specced in zerker or marauder.

In general not. Bursty burn classes (mostly burn guard, engi and ranger quite behind) are about as bursty as bursty power classes (mesmer, thief, power ranger, medi-guard and maybe warrior)

4. Being able to run rabid or carrion is really nice since I get either vit or toughness. Cele is good as well.

Marauder also has extra vit. Carrion has barely more. Rabid has more sustain, but rabid does not have the same burst!

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

I love finding a necro with not much life force, then putting 12 stacks of burn followed by my 3 second invuln and watch them squirm as they burn.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

I love finding a necro with not much life force, then putting 12 stacks of burn followed by my 3 second invuln and watch them squirm as they burn.

Frequently, they just eat that. Literally.

All of these people trying to defend burning, afraid they will have to play something else. It doesn’t matter weather or not you think its easy to counter, a single condi being able to do http://imgur.com/a/htcVX that isnt balanced.

The best would be to make conditions also affected by crit ( aand ofc. be balanced around this ).

That way ppl that decide to run condition builds are either forced to also lose the toughness / vitality or they do less dmg .

Right now the balance between defense and offense for condition builds is way off compared to power /zerker builds.-

lvis.3824:

The best would be to make conditions also affected by crit ( aand ofc. be balanced around this ).

That way ppl that decide to run condition builds are either forced to also lose the toughness / vitality or they do less dmg .

Right now the balance between defense and offense for condition builds is way off compared to power /zerker builds.-

Rabid already gives 1,200 condition damage, 900 crit, 900 toughness.

Went against 2 burn guardians. They deliver hard physical and condition damage.

Personally I don’t like burn builds because it hurts my feelings when ppl reject/cleanse the gifts I send them.

Regardless, I don’t want condi burst to go away. Pvp is a lot more fun and challenging when you try to defend against physical, burst condition and attrition pressure damage.

Complain about burn guardian proves only you are bad player. Against burn guardian there are 2 things you have to watch, don’t attack when they are blocking and dodge their torch 4 attacks.

If this 2 actions overwhelms you should not PVP in GW2.

Turret engi was annoying because of the knock backs and tons of condi which you can dodge all or cleanse all, none of the classes builds you mentioned can do such things so often.

posthumecaver.6473:

Complain about burn guardian proves only you are bad player. Against burn guardian there are 2 things you have to watch, don’t attack when they are blocking and dodge their torch 4 attacks.

If this 2 actions overwhelms you should not PVP in GW2.

Turret engi was annoying because of the knock backs and tons of condi which you can dodge all or cleanse all, none of the classes builds you mentioned can do such things so often.

From my understanding, he was illustrating how he cleansed some of their condi bursts but not so much the direct damage. The amount of cleansing he did kinda confirms that. He wasn’t complaining about burn guards.

I know for a fact that you are WRONG about the class builds he mentioned not countering turreteers. I’ve personally melted the engie and their turrets with a staff ele and condi trap ranger.

Maybe you’re the one who shouldn’t pvp. You cant even comprehend what others are saying.

By just reading the title, i agree on that point. Both were or are not valid at any good gaming. A turret engi was always the best opponent you could get. Nver had propblems with any of them, same is for burning. But qq along, i dont mind any more.

trytonianYeti.4389:

posthumecaver.6473:

Complain about burn guardian proves only you are bad player. Against burn guardian there are 2 things you have to watch, don’t attack when they are blocking and dodge their torch 4 attacks.

If this 2 actions overwhelms you should not PVP in GW2.

Turret engi was annoying because of the knock backs and tons of condi which you can dodge all or cleanse all, none of the classes builds you mentioned can do such things so often.

From my understanding, he was illustrating how he cleansed some of their condi bursts but not so much the direct damage. The amount of cleansing he did kinda confirms that. He wasn’t complaining about burn guards.

I know for a fact that you are WRONG about the class builds he mentioned not countering turreteers. I’ve personally melted the engie and their turrets with a staff ele and condi trap ranger.

Maybe you’re the one who shouldn’t pvp. You cant even comprehend what others are saying.

When Turret Engi was Turret Engi, you could not kill its turrets like a breeze, like it is now that was the problem.

And the thing he is trolling, his advertising like playing burn guardian can give left and right free kills. Yes, you can kill bad players but to kill competent people with burn guardian you have to be really good.

Burn guardian is soooooo squishy.

#NothingLikeExperience.

smiley.4739:

by far the easiest way to play PvP.

Why… Why do people f_cking do this? I can’t even begin to explain how angry this mentality makes me.

Sure, everyone can play the game as they like, I’m not trying to force personal standards on anyone. But I just hate this kind of thought process where if it’s easy it’s fun. These kinds of builds also happen to, in most cases, be extremely frustrating to fight as well but who cares because you’re getting easy wins and having fun at the expense of other people’s enjoyment, right.

Idk but I enjoy a challenge and engaging my opponent as much as they do myself. I want us all to have an enjoyable experience instead of farming people like a d_chebag.

But what ever apparently I’m in the minority otherwise these kinds of players wouldn’t inhabit 80% of every match.

posthumecaver.6473:

trytonianYeti.4389:

posthumecaver.6473:

Complain about burn guardian proves only you are bad player. Against burn guardian there are 2 things you have to watch, don’t attack when they are blocking and dodge their torch 4 attacks.

If this 2 actions overwhelms you should not PVP in GW2.

Turret engi was annoying because of the knock backs and tons of condi which you can dodge all or cleanse all, none of the classes builds you mentioned can do such things so often.

From my understanding, he was illustrating how he cleansed some of their condi bursts but not so much the direct damage. The amount of cleansing he did kinda confirms that. He wasn’t complaining about burn guards.

I know for a fact that you are WRONG about the class builds he mentioned not countering turreteers. I’ve personally melted the engie and their turrets with a staff ele and condi trap ranger.

Maybe you’re the one who shouldn’t pvp. You cant even comprehend what others are saying.

When Turret Engi was Turret Engi, you could not kill its turrets like a breeze, like it is now that was the problem.

And the thing he is trolling, his advertising like playing burn guardian can give left and right free kills. Yes, you can kill bad players but to kill competent people with burn guardian you have to be really good.

Burn guardian is soooooo squishy.

#NothingLikeExperience.

Chill

I couldn’t find anything from my comment that even comes close to complaining about burn guardians. Maybe comprehension isn’t your strong trait.

I’m actually in friendly terms with the 2 burn guardians I fought at home. I cant say it was a complete 1v2 because a teammate went home to stomp one of them after realizing why home hasn’t been secured.

I beat turret engies with my cele rifle. Engie vs engie, they stood very little chance. That’s why I felt bad when they got nerfed. I love my class and like seeing diversity within it. I also beat the turret build with staff ele and shatter Mesmer focusing on certain turrets first before eliminating the engie. Poison master trap ranger condis had no effect on the turrets at the time but it melted the engie with limited cleansing the fastest.

Your experience won’t get you far with your delusions of grandeur and limited knowledge.

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

All of these people trying to defend burning, afraid they will have to play something else. It doesn’t matter weather or not you think its easy to counter, a single condi being able to do http://imgur.com/a/htcVX that isnt balanced.

I really Love to see people try to argument they’re problem to kill burn builds (expecially guardians) posting images where they suffered by 60-80k of burn damage.

But that’s the proof that Burn IS NOT OP.

The reason?
How can a OP damage need to deal 60-80k of damage to you to kill you? How much time a guardian to stack enough burn and make it last to deal that 60-80k of damage???
If a guardian will stack on you 9 stack of burn and keep it on you (barely impossible for more than 4 seconds why skills recharge and condi cleans), the guardian need literally 20-30 seconds to deal all that damage.
But frequently the damage have a “burst” of 12-15 and then fall down to 3-6 (if the enemy let you stack and mantain burn), making your damage fall down.

Then, if you are a Warrior (that can use berserker stance to be immune to conditions for 8-10 sec) survived all that burn damage, how long that “OP Burn” needed to take you down, adding that you was in teamfight and there will be other conditions and direct damage sources that dealt damage to you?

I can say that the guardian dps is “OP” when I see that with the GS skill 2 dealt me 8k, plus another 3k by skill 3, some xK by 4 and 5, killing my berserker pg in 3-4 seconds with a insane burst (is really funny when I kill zerk thiefs in that way with my dps guardian). That’s why I’m been killed in 4 seconds with 14-16k of damage burst hard to evade (GS skill 5 is the best to kill noobs).

But if I recive 60-80k of Burn damage plus a large amount of direct and other condi damage before I fall, that’s not to call OP, because to kill you I needed to deal you 60k of damage, making me take a lot of time to kill you, a really big amount of time.

Seriously: don’t post stupid images of “OP Burn Damage” why all that is only a proof that Burn is not enough strong to kill you fast like you sayd.

Seriously: if to kill a warrior you need 60k of burn (counting that almost all warriors use Berserk Stance and have a lot of condi removal by skills or traits) is like you need to kill him 3-5 times before he drop downed at your feets.

And that all don’t seems to me to be “OP”.

Guardian burn is only good to kill noobs in unranked.

If you want to kill good players with burn you have to be really skilled and know all the enemy condi clean, timing and evade they’re damage skills to survive enough to kill them with condition damage.

posthumecaver.6473:

trytonianYeti.4389:

posthumecaver.6473:

Complain about burn guardian proves only you are bad player. Against burn guardian there are 2 things you have to watch, don’t attack when they are blocking and dodge their torch 4 attacks.

If this 2 actions overwhelms you should not PVP in GW2.

Turret engi was annoying because of the knock backs and tons of condi which you can dodge all or cleanse all, none of the classes builds you mentioned can do such things so often.

From my understanding, he was illustrating how he cleansed some of their condi bursts but not so much the direct damage. The amount of cleansing he did kinda confirms that. He wasn’t complaining about burn guards.

I know for a fact that you are WRONG about the class builds he mentioned not countering turreteers. I’ve personally melted the engie and their turrets with a staff ele and condi trap ranger.

Maybe you’re the one who shouldn’t pvp. You cant even comprehend what others are saying.

When Turret Engi was Turret Engi, you could not kill its turrets like a breeze, like it is now that was the problem.

And the thing he is trolling, his advertising like playing burn guardian can give left and right free kills. Yes, you can kill bad players but to kill competent people with burn guardian you have to be really good.

Burn guardian is soooooo squishy.

#NothingLikeExperience.

Although I play in NA, I’m from Europe and English isn’t my primary language but abc was actually defending burn builds. How was he trolling?

Perhaps you need more experience?

Silv.9207:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

All of these people trying to defend burning, afraid they will have to play something else. It doesn’t matter weather or not you think its easy to counter, a single condi being able to do http://imgur.com/a/htcVX that isnt balanced.

I really Love to see people try to argument they’re problem to kill burn builds (expecially guardians) posting images where they suffered by 60-80k of burn damage.

But that’s the proof that Burn IS NOT OP.

The reason?
How can a OP damage need to deal 60-80k of damage to you to kill you? How much time a guardian to stack enough burn and make it last to deal that 60-80k of damage???
If a guardian will stack on you 9 stack of burn and keep it on you (barely impossible for more than 4 seconds why skills recharge and condi cleans), the guardian need literally 20-30 seconds to deal all that damage.
But frequently the damage have a “burst” of 12-15 and then fall down to 3-6 (if the enemy let you stack and mantain burn), making your damage fall down.

Then, if you are a Warrior (that can use berserker stance to be immune to conditions for 8-10 sec) survived all that burn damage, how long that “OP Burn” needed to take you down, adding that you was in teamfight and there will be other conditions and direct damage sources that dealt damage to you?

I can say that the guardian dps is “OP” when I see that with the GS skill 2 dealt me 8k, plus another 3k by skill 3, some xK by 4 and 5, killing my berserker pg in 3-4 seconds with a insane burst (is really funny when I kill zerk thiefs in that way with my dps guardian). That’s why I’m been killed in 4 seconds with 14-16k of damage burst hard to evade (GS skill 5 is the best to kill noobs).

But if I recive 60-80k of Burn damage plus a large amount of direct and other condi damage before I fall, that’s not to call OP, because to kill you I needed to deal you 60k of damage, making me take a lot of time to kill you, a really big amount of time.

Seriously: don’t post stupid images of “OP Burn Damage” why all that is only a proof that Burn is not enough strong to kill you fast like you sayd.

Seriously: if to kill a warrior you need 60k of burn (counting that almost all warriors use Berserk Stance and have a lot of condi removal by skills or traits) is like you need to kill him 3-5 times before he drop downed at your feets.

And that all don’t seems to me to be “OP”.

Guardian burn is only good to kill noobs in unranked.

If you want to kill good players with burn you have to be really skilled and know all the enemy condi clean, timing and evade they’re damage skills to survive enough to kill them with condition damage.

I’m pretty sure death log includes downed damage taken and you severely overestimate the skill required to play a condition build. It’s pretty hard to take 8k from Whirling Wrath, try not going AFK inside him next time, as people tell me burn Guardian has no mobility so surely a physical has the exact same with the same weapons but the burn Guardian is already doing his 3k damage ticks the moment he Judge’s to you and now you need to clear burn out of 3-5 conditions or you die.

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct, 2k burn
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 9.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

You can clearly see the 2nd is retaliation and 3rd is Shield of Wrath, 4th being the Rampage elites basic attack so there was an Engineer or Warrior physically hitting him at some point without burns. When you are alive it’s not much different, isn’t that much condition removal to bring unless you go pure shout bunker.

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

glaphen.5230:

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Funny thing: Purging Flames does nothing to help against transfers. The duration is set when the condition is first applied, and, short of cleanses, nothing can change that duration once it’s been set. Transfers use all of the characteristics of the original application, including altering damage ticks if the initial applicator gains or loses stacks of Might/Sigil of Corruption.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

glaphen.5230:

D I V A.6018:

WuGzaGenius.5684:

i main necro, burn gaurds are my favorite snack.

If I run burn guard, the only think I really fear are necros. Even 2v1 I really try to avoid the coordinated ones, since they can kill me with 1 transfer in a critical moment.

I can not understand why people flame (pun intended) so much about burn builds.
Get good or equip condi remove.

Isn’t enough, how about you get good and use weapon swap conditions, only way 1 transfers gonna work is if they get lucky with Generosity or they are a Necromancer, though if you have Purging Flames you should not die to the first transfer anyways.

Funny thing: Purging Flames does nothing to help against transfers. The duration is set when the condition is first applied, and, short of cleanses, nothing can change that duration once it’s been set. Transfers use all of the characteristics of the original application, including altering damage ticks if the initial applicator gains or loses stacks of Might/Sigil of Corruption.

Uhh Purging Flames removes conditions too. Only transfers are Necromancers and one Mesmer skill, next is luck based Generosity sigil for 1 condition.

Kuya.6495:

Burn builds are definitely good for killing scrubs.

The best is laying down purging flames and watching your opponent run back and forth over it 5 times, then complain that burn guardian is broken after they put 15 stacks of burning on themselves.

Silv.9207:

TheAngryDuckling.5481:

All of these people trying to defend burning, afraid they will have to play something else. It doesn’t matter weather or not you think its easy to counter, a single condi being able to do http://imgur.com/a/htcVX that isnt balanced.

I really Love to see people try to argument they’re problem to kill burn builds (expecially guardians) posting images where they suffered by 60-80k of burn damage.

But that’s the proof that Burn IS NOT OP.

The reason?
How can a OP damage need to deal 60-80k of damage to you to kill you? How much time a guardian to stack enough burn and make it last to deal that 60-80k of damage???
If a guardian will stack on you 9 stack of burn and keep it on you (barely impossible for more than 4 seconds why skills recharge and condi cleans), the guardian need literally 20-30 seconds to deal all that damage.
But frequently the damage have a “burst” of 12-15 and then fall down to 3-6 (if the enemy let you stack and mantain burn), making your damage fall down.

Then, if you are a Warrior (that can use berserker stance to be immune to conditions for 8-10 sec) survived all that burn damage, how long that “OP Burn” needed to take you down, adding that you was in teamfight and there will be other conditions and direct damage sources that dealt damage to you?

I can say that the guardian dps is “OP” when I see that with the GS skill 2 dealt me 8k, plus another 3k by skill 3, some xK by 4 and 5, killing my berserker pg in 3-4 seconds with a insane burst (is really funny when I kill zerk thiefs in that way with my dps guardian). That’s why I’m been killed in 4 seconds with 14-16k of damage burst hard to evade (GS skill 5 is the best to kill noobs).

But if I recive 60-80k of Burn damage plus a large amount of direct and other condi damage before I fall, that’s not to call OP, because to kill you I needed to deal you 60k of damage, making me take a lot of time to kill you, a really big amount of time.

Seriously: don’t post stupid images of “OP Burn Damage” why all that is only a proof that Burn is not enough strong to kill you fast like you sayd.

Seriously: if to kill a warrior you need 60k of burn (counting that almost all warriors use Berserk Stance and have a lot of condi removal by skills or traits) is like you need to kill him 3-5 times before he drop downed at your feets.

And that all don’t seems to me to be “OP”.

Guardian burn is only good to kill noobs in unranked.

If you want to kill good players with burn you have to be really skilled and know all the enemy condi clean, timing and evade they’re damage skills to survive enough to kill them with condition damage.

wtf are you on about. My point completely went over your head. The point is that it doesn’t matter if im standing afk. A single condi shouldn’t be able to do that much damage in that amount of time.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

They have counterplay? Wait…no turret engi didn’t. Guess I’m wrong.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

smiley.4739:

Thanks to everyone talking about how OP burn builds are, I decided to try one. It is definitely fun.

A few thoughts:

1. It is way easier to apply condis than it is for someone to remove them.
2. It is insanely easy to play
3. Does higher burst than someone who is specced in zerker or maurader.
4. Being able to run rabid or carrion is really nice since I get either vit or toughness. Cele is good as well.

For those of you who haven’t tried, definitely do it. Burn guard, burn engi, burn ranger, or cele ele. All are good. It might be tough in the top end play, but for the other 98% of you, it will work well and is by far the easiest way to play PvP.

1. Duh? Any offense needs to be greater than its associated defenses or else the fight goes nowhere.
2. Against baddies, sure. You get wrecked by someone packing Sigil of Generosity. Yeah, a piece of equipment counters your build.
3. Not true, just easier to land because people don’t know what to dodge. Zerker burst is definitely way higher.
4. That is nice, yes, but also a requirement. Condition builds need more time to kill, so it helps if you can actually delay dying.

qft

yeah, they are both very straightforward to fight builds that cause rivers of tears

SlayerSixx.5763:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

smiley.4739:

Thanks to everyone talking about how OP burn builds are, I decided to try one. It is definitely fun.

A few thoughts:

1. It is way easier to apply condis than it is for someone to remove them.
2. It is insanely easy to play
3. Does higher burst than someone who is specced in zerker or maurader.
4. Being able to run rabid or carrion is really nice since I get either vit or toughness. Cele is good as well.

For those of you who haven’t tried, definitely do it. Burn guard, burn engi, burn ranger, or cele ele. All are good. It might be tough in the top end play, but for the other 98% of you, it will work well and is by far the easiest way to play PvP.

1. Duh? Any offense needs to be greater than its associated defenses or else the fight goes nowhere.
2. Against baddies, sure. You get wrecked by someone packing Sigil of Generosity. Yeah, a piece of equipment counters your build.
3. Not true, just easier to land because people don’t know what to dodge. Zerker burst is definitely way higher.
4. That is nice, yes, but also a requirement. Condition builds need more time to kill, so it helps if you can actually delay dying.

qft

Right, counters the initial argument completely. That leaves you with nothing, so you get mad and be rude. Classic.

Unless the guardian teleports from behind LOS, you have no excuse as to why you didn’t see that big blue burning man coming towards you. Or the subsequent fireball. Or the big blue burning circle. Or his incredibly slow GS animations. Or the fact that his entire bomb relies on one condition and you deserve to be dropped by conditions of you don’t have at least ONE condi cleanse on your bar/trait lines.

Then you might argue that they could jump in the middle of a team fight. There’s no way you could focus all of your efforts on avoiding him when there are at least 2 more guys trying to bash your head in….

Unless you realize that there are certain fights you shouldn’t stick around to fight when the outcome is soooo obvious. People assume thief is the only class that should skip out of bad encounters. I believe everyone, excluding that poor burn guard with 0 out of combat mobility, has no excuse as to why they stuck around to get rekt. I can’t even count how many times Ive seen someone pop rampage or lich and then the enemy just…idek wtf he was doing. Looked like he tried running but decided to stay and fight, then got slapped and then tried running again but was afraid his team mates would rage at him for running so he comes back and get slapped again. Then he cries about it on the forums. Learning to rotate isn’t a thief only requirement.

robertul.3679:

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

Dayym you guys. The skills are from 3 different classes – guard ele warrior. I play support guard so excuse me if my estimate offended you. It’s pretty entertaining when you guys knit-pick the smallest detail and ignore the primary message —- Death logs are unreliable because it presents condition damage, in this case burning, into one lump sum figure.

I’m gonna make some funnel cake now and share with y’all if I could

I was told over the weekend by a burn guard “so muc bunk”. I out played his burns and kept him poisoned so long that he couldn’t heal that much. It took a 2v1 burst build to take me out. That happens far more often with thieves as well that try a burst on you. Just a reminder that bunkers do exist for a reason and this meta will continue to require bunkers.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqelUUhqrY9VwdLw6FLGGVYAMO7lY6ECbwYB+CLIA-TJBIwAAeAAg2fI8JAgYZAA

My build if people want to know how I counter them. Even counters cele ele.

abc.5790:

robertul.3679:

glaphen.5230:

abc.5790:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Try moving out of range when you’re immobilized/knocked down? Sure, that’s always worked wonderfully. 8k Whirling Wrath is easy to land if you want to.

That said, if you’re bringing downed health into it (which death logs usually do), then it is immensely misleading, since when you’re downed, you have no active defense, nor cleanse.

That said, death logs, especially with conditions, are terribly unhelpful for figuring out what really killed you. If you take hits doing the following:
6k direct, 1k burn
4k direct, 1.5k burn
4.5k direct, 900 burn
3k direct, 1k burn
6.5k direct
5k direct, 1k burn
2k direct, 1.3k burn
7k direct, 500 burn

Burning will be shown at the top of the list with 7.2k damage. So that was the deadly part, right? Well, no, since the 36k direct damage was definitely a much larger contributor. But since no individual skill on the direct damage beat out the total of burning, burning is shown as the highest damage.

I like how you get it.

That’s why I don’t trust death logs. It combines the condition damage received and posts them in its generic form, instead of listing the source of condition from skill used

i.e. 2300 zealots flame, 930 purging flames, 4300 ring of fire, 3100 drakes breath 900 burning speed, 600 fan of fire etc, It will add all those up and list it as 12130 Burning.

Then someone will qq on the forum and say nerf burning even though the damage came for 3 classes through 6 skills.

Yeah those 3k burning ticks from 1 person must be my imagination.

It actually gets over 6k. From a single guard. In less than 3-5secs.

Dayym you guys. The skills are from 3 different classes – guard ele warrior. I play support guard so excuse me if my estimate offended you. It’s pretty entertaining when you guys knit-pick the smallest detail and ignore the primary message —- Death logs are unreliable because it presents condition damage, in this case burning, into one lump sum figure.

I’m gonna make some funnel cake now and share with y’all if I could

Because 1 person can do that much burning, don’t need 3.

Thiefz.3695:

I was told over the weekend by a burn guard “so muc bunk”. I out played his burns and kept him poisoned so long that he couldn’t heal that much. It took a 2v1 burst build to take me out. That happens far more often with thieves as well that try a burst on you. Just a reminder that bunkers do exist for a reason and this meta will continue to require bunkers.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vdAQJAqelUUhqrY9VwdLw6FLGGVYAMO7lY6ECbwYB+CLIA-TJBIwAAeAAg2fI8JAgYZAA

My build if people want to know how I counter them. Even counters cele ele.

Yeah a bunker Engineer, some of the best sustain in the game and tons of condition removals can probably easily kill a burn Guardian in a 1 vs 1.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Unless the guardian teleports from behind LOS, you have no excuse as to why you didn’t see that big blue burning man coming towards you. Or the subsequent fireball. Or the big blue burning circle. Or his incredibly slow GS animations. Or the fact that his entire bomb relies on one condition and you deserve to be dropped by conditions of you don’t have at least ONE condi cleanse on your bar/trait lines.

Then you might argue that they could jump in the middle of a team fight. There’s no way you could focus all of your efforts on avoiding him when there are at least 2 more guys trying to bash your head in….

Unless you realize that there are certain fights you shouldn’t stick around to fight when the outcome is soooo obvious. People assume thief is the only class that should skip out of bad encounters. I believe everyone, excluding that poor burn guard with 0 out of combat mobility, has no excuse as to why they stuck around to get rekt. I can’t even count how many times Ive seen someone pop rampage or lich and then the enemy just…idek wtf he was doing. Looked like he tried running but decided to stay and fight, then got slapped and then tried running again but was afraid his team mates would rage at him for running so he comes back and get slapped again. Then he cries about it on the forums. Learning to rotate isn’t a thief only requirement.

What does it matter if you see him coming towards you, you aren’t going to dodge his instant teleport unless he is terrible or you get extremely lucky with a prediction, burning isn’t the only condition weapon swapping every 10 seconds gives you 8 seconds of poison and 3 stacks of bleeding for 8 seconds, if he uses greatsword he gets vulnerability, 2 blinds with both swords. Most condition removals remove 3 or less.

Learn where 1200 range starts. If he uses it at less than that, he wasted his best gap closer and he’d well within range for you to interrupt/watch the whirl happen. If he starts whirling and you aren’t close to him, you know what he’s about to do. The bleed and poison do negligible damage and although the poison serves an alternate purpose, you shouldn’t even be getting hit by their ridiculously obvious tells. If he lands his whirl without teleporting, I have no idea what to tell you. If he lands his smite without chain (which has its own tell), again, I have no idea what to tell you. If he lands his fireball (which is glitchy as kitten), again, nothing to say. Guard, in general (and especially the burn build), has no extra CCs or bursts they can throw at you to bait a dodge or stun break so if you aren’t bad, avoiding it is actually a very simple task if he doesn’t try instagibbing you from behind a wall.

Also, how’s about you remove the conditions BEFORE they pass that 3 threshold. The sigils only proc when they’re in battle so the poison and bleed aren’t happening if they insta gib you from behind a wall. If they ARE in battle, them swapping to GS should already be a big fat “GET READY TO DODGGGGEEEEEE” call out. Basically, them attacking you head on is them being super polite and announcing their attacks.

To add some humour to this generally salt filled thread:

Everything you need to do to deal with a burn guard, assuming not blind

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS6zMThiZU

SlayerSixx.5763:

Learn where 1200 range starts. If he uses it at less than that, he wasted his best gap closer and he’d well within range for you to interrupt/watch the whirl happen. If he starts whirling and you aren’t close to him, you know what he’s about to do. The bleed and poison do negligible damage and although the poison serves an alternate purpose, you shouldn’t even be getting hit by their ridiculously obvious tells. If he lands his whirl without teleporting, I have no idea what to tell you. If he lands his smite without chain (which has its own tell), again, I have no idea what to tell you. If he lands his fireball (which is glitchy as kitten), again, nothing to say. Guard, in general (and especially the burn build), has no extra CCs or bursts they can throw at you to bait a dodge or stun break so if you aren’t bad, avoiding it is actually a very simple task if he doesn’t try instagibbing you from behind a wall.

Also, how’s about you remove the conditions BEFORE they pass that 3 threshold. The sigils only proc when they’re in battle so the poison and bleed aren’t happening if they insta gib you from behind a wall. If they ARE in battle, them swapping to GS should already be a big fat “GET READY TO DODGGGGEEEEEE” call out. Basically, them attacking you head on is them being super polite and announcing their attacks.

To add some humour to this generally salt filled thread:

Everything you need to do to deal with a burn guard, assuming not blind

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kvS6zMThiZU

Too bad the 3k ticks don’t even need justice procs to start, it’s instant get that through your head already, it’s his choice when to use it, you are not going to dodge it. The bleed and poison get in the way of removing the 3k ticks and keep you from healing, both are instant and not possible to dodge besides luck. The justice procs aren’t even that bad, getting hit by the sword multi-hit is less than a torch throw that he does twice every 10 seconds, hell it’s less than standing next to him at all with those instant burns from Zealot.

The teleport is instant, that’s it. He’s slow. You pressure him with range, he’ll be forced to pop the port to begin pressuring, but you should know its coming. 3k ticks for 3s is 9k+his pitiful 3k whirl and that’s being generous all amounts to 12k burst. On my warrior, with a difference in speed compared to my guardian that can only be described as the distance between the heavens and the earth, I can land a nearly 17k burst with one skill NEARLY instantly (thanks to heightened focus). In terms of defense, my warrior is no slouch either since he has 20k HP base, double EP, and I’m running defiant stance for kittens and giggles. The bleed and poison only happen after one of you initiates. Don’t be an idiot and let him initiate so he doesn’t get the benefit of his sigils right off the bat if you aren’t confident in your ability to dodge his condi burst?

You’re complaining about not being able to create 2-300 range gap (i don’t remember the exact radius) from the slowest guy on the field? What in the actual kitten?

I guess bads will always be bads.

SlayerSixx.5763:

The teleport is instant, that’s it. He’s slow. You pressure him with range, he’ll be forced to pop the port to begin pressuring, but you should know its coming. 3k ticks for 3s is 9k+his pitiful 3k whirl and that’s being generous all amounts to 12k burst. On my warrior, with a difference in speed compared to my guardian that can only be described as the distance between the heavens and the earth, I can land a nearly 17k burst with one skill NEARLY instantly (thanks to heightened focus). In terms of defense, my warrior is no slouch either since he has 20k HP base, double EP, and I’m running defiant stance for kittens and giggles. The bleed and poison only happen after one of you initiates. Don’t be an idiot and let him initiate so he doesn’t get the benefit of his sigils right off the bat if you aren’t confident in your ability to dodge his condi burst?

You’re complaining about not being able to create 2-300 range gap (i don’t remember the exact radius) from the slowest guy on the field? What in the actual kitten?

I guess bads will always be bads.

Yep you will always be if you actually are landing 17k hits on a Warrior in PvP, must be some low MMR stuff because Warriors have the easiest big skills to dodge in the game. I don’t see how you initiating changes anything, Judge’s is a stun break too and there is no way to stop his sigils. Make that gap but you still take 3k per second.

Big tell, maybe, but if you bait the dodges with warrior’s 102043 moderately high damage skills and then land a bulls charge, there’s nothing the target can do. Baiting is something guard can’t do. You’re telling me that you can’t dodge the one burst combo DPS guardians have been doing since the start of the game? You mean to tell me that you actually stand next to the guard and let his ZF passively apply its burn? Seriously? Do you have any idea how powerful DH is going to be? Don’t wrack your brain over the question, they won’t be. Why is that? Because of traps. Why are traps so weak? Because they’re ground targeted (also have more of a delay for activation vs PF, but the difference is negligible). Why is the difference negligible? Because with all of the mobility flying around and no way for guard to stay on their target, its a waste of a slot. Why is PF any different? For the classes that can’t kite guard, they have other ways of dealing with the burn. For the classes that can kite guard, then its the easiest thing ever. The burns don’t just magic their way onto you.

Burning JI for a stun break only? Oh my. I think we’ve located the problem.

Have a nice day, sir.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Big tell, maybe, but if you bait the dodges with warrior’s 102043 moderately high damage skills and then land a bulls charge, there’s nothing the target can do. Baiting is something guard can’t do. You’re telling me that you can’t dodge the one burst combo DPS guardians have been doing since the start of the game? You mean to tell me that you actually stand next to the guard and let his ZF passively apply its burn? Seriously? Do you have any idea how powerful DH is going to be? Don’t wrack your brain over the question, they won’t be. Why is that? Because of traps. Why are traps so weak? Because they’re ground targeted (also have more of a delay for activation vs PF, but the difference is negligible). Why is the difference negligible? Because with all of the mobility flying around and no way for guard to stay on their target, its a waste of a slot. Why is PF any different? For the classes that can’t kite guard, they have other ways of dealing with the burn. For the classes that can kite guard, then its the easiest thing ever. The burns don’t just magic their way onto you.

Burning JI for a stun break only? Oh my. I think we’ve located the problem.

Have a nice day, sir.

Difference is at the start of the game burn only did like 1k damage per tick with a condition build so it wasn’t broken, physical builds are easier to stop than condition. Again they don’t even need to use justice to proc their massive burns. I have not looked up DH but traps will be useless in WvW as always, this is SPvP, people need to stay on the tiny point so I doubt traps will be useless unless they are Thief tier and Dragon Maw looks pretty nice, either way this isn’t about elite specializations that haven’t come out yet.