Guild Wars 2

To begin with I am Ventari (r52) and top 50 in the leaderboards and playing PVP since release without any stops that have lasted for more than 3 weeks, so I really know what is going on in the PVP section of Guild Wars 2. And currently I became even more frustrated than I was after the so-called “balancing patch”.

1.) Burning Problem!
Whenever I check my deathbreakdown, I see that I got most dmg from burning dealing about 20k-30k dmg and then there is a far distance and I get damage from other skills, mostly conditions which is really annyoing, eventhough I am playing necro. And the very simple reason for it is, that the base damage of this condition is far too high. Why would I get most damage from burning in a duell against a hammer/longbow warrior with berzerkers amulett?? It is not as if they get most damage from the direct damage of the attacks of my scepter as well??
Solution: Let the conditions scale more (and I mean a lot more) with condition damage and decrease the damage done by it by the same amount so the damage stays the same for condition classes and is only lowered for glasscannon classes.

2.) Warrior Problem
Every second player I am talking to (top100 laderboards) thinks that warrior is not OP but very close to it. If the burning problem is solved it will be a lot better with them, but the main problem is that it is the only class that deals 3k hits on a necro with 2.5k armor, while having all skill points spent in defensive traits. And yes my team has tested a lot to deal with double warrior setups and even tripple warrior setups but these setups are still too rewarding compared to the amount of tactical understanding and skill you need to counter it. And yes I learned how to deal with warris in duels…
Solution: Solve the burning problem or move the +50% crit chance on stunned foes trait to master or grandmaster trait or decrease the damage done by longbow #3 and the hammer skills by 20% or keep the damage and remove one of the hammer knockdowns or knockbacks so you don’t need to play energy sigil on every weapon set and still be not able to dodge everything.

Resume: This may sound a bit too hard, but if we think about the consequences warrior will still be viable without having more health, armor, damage and sustain with berzerkers amulett than any other class with rabid or other similar amuletts. I know the game is made for casuals but the ones who really want to play this game seriously want to have fun as well. So please make sure to fix this problem !soon!, or the rest of the top100 players will leave the game as well…

I am absolutely fine with removing burning and torment from the necro again. That will make it a lot more balanced and will increase the build variety.

I personally think he’s wrong when it comes to necro. While the nerf should be done it shouldn’t just be a grandmaster trait and some torment on tainted shackles.

Its across the board with conditions in general.
1 of two things need to happen
1. Condition becomes (on paper) a corner stone of damage and needs more than 1 stat to increase the damage.
- so then base condition damage would be dropped much lower, and be given a chance for the ticks to crit, and durations shorten to condition duration would be a much more important stat. Meaning to burst with significant condi damage you would have to forgo alot of survival. And if you actually wanted to have a battle of attrition your condis would last a lot less as well as do less damage adding more chances of counterplay from non condi/ non condi removal spam classes.

OR

2. Condi remains supplemental to basic power (such as being the side effect of most atttacks that do power dmg, and its damage is lowered across the board, the rate of reapply is lowered (i mean like 2 – 3 stacks of it on staff 2 on like a 8 sec CD? as well as twice on specter auto as well poison pretty much invalidating anyone trying to condi cleanse) or there becomes passive ways to remove them (just like they are passive ways to apply them) so like Guard mace auto would remove 2 condis on its 3rd attack or so on and so forth

from a necro point of view , i dont like this whole necro changes but this only what makes necro vaible atm , so the only way to fix everything is nerf verything,Gw2 reached high lv of power creep , lets say we gonan nerf wars and necro , then ele will be OP becose he can make 15-25k dmg dependand on armor and u basicly cant avoid it , ofc that was only example. Every class atm have some OP thing.

And i woud like to see devs remove burning from necro and even cut down the whole dmg of burning but at the same time they need to bring back the terror dmg , u need to remeber that necro atm is the easiest target to kill and every good pvp guy will agree with me , u gonna say that necro have DS or plague , DS can drop realy fast when u focus necro , plague its our elite and we necro need to use his elite to be able to survive the foucus when other profesions have blocks , prema vigor , stability , ton of evades etc so i think its fair.

Basicly anet need to start nerfing everything with small steps , becouse atm if they nerf one clas like war other will become OP just becouse they were buffing everything since realese.Nerf condi dm , nerf direct dmg , nerf AOE.

I’ve said this many times but I’ll say it again.

Part of the problem is there are certain condition applications that spam short duration, bite-sized conditions that are almost completely immune to any cleansing in order to mitigate it.

Longbow Burst skill is by far the easiest example of this, the massive aoe and nearly constant uptime means it’s pretty much impossible to avoid if you need to be on a point (example of how drastic balance changes with something like conquest mode).

But it maintains 2s burn every 2 seconds… almost non stop, how example do you mitigate conditions like this?

You can compare it to direct dmg that functions the same way, but that can be mitigated by toughness/armor, protection, weakness etc… conditions can only be mitigated by cleansing (and healing which also mitigates direct dmg).

Short duration condition spam is basically uncounterable true dmg constantly being thrown at you.

Forsaker.9213:

from a necro point of view , i dont like this whole necro changes but this only what makes necro vaible atm , so the only way to fix everything is nerf verything,Gw2 reached high lv of power creep , lets say we gonan nerf wars and necro , then ele will be OP becose he can make 15-25k dmg dependand on armor and u basicly cant avoid it , ofc that was only example. Every class atm have some OP thing.

And i woud like to see devs remove burning from necro and even cut down the whole dmg of burning but at the same time they need to bring back the terror dmg , u need to remeber that necro atm is the easiest target to kill and every good pvp guy will agree with me , u gonna say that necro have DS or plague , DS can drop realy fast when u focus necro , plague its our elite and we necro need to use his elite to be able to survive the foucus when other profesions have blocks , prema vigor , stability , ton of evades etc so i think its fair.

Basicly anet need to start nerfing everything with small steps , becouse atm if they nerf one clas like war other will become OP just becouse they were buffing everything since realese.Nerf condi dm , nerf direct dmg , nerf AOE.

This guy.

I also agree with Ventari, warrior is nothing more than the product of the ridicolous power creep ongoing with this game.

NERF EVERYTHING TO DUST.

Forsaker.9213:

Basicly anet need to start nerfing everything with small steps , becouse atm if they nerf one clas like war other will become OP just becouse they were buffing everything since realese.Nerf condi dm , nerf direct dmg , nerf AOE.

Nerfing all kind of damage would result into a bunker wars 2. The previous nerfs on s/d thiefs (more initiative cost/less boon steal) is a better way of nerfing than reducing all numbers.

Blackjack.5621:

Forsaker.9213:

Basicly anet need to start nerfing everything with small steps , becouse atm if they nerf one clas like war other will become OP just becouse they were buffing everything since realese.Nerf condi dm , nerf direct dmg , nerf AOE.

Nerfing all kind of damage would result into a bunker wars 2. The previous nerfs on s/d thiefs (more initiative cost/less boon steal) is a better way of nerfing than reducing all numbers.

Bunkers need nerfs too, they both do.

Bunkers need to be nerfed INTO supports rather than pure bunkers.

I don’t see how the “bunker” role is appealing or good for the game whatsoever.

ofc they need to nerf bunker too , like Knote said bunker dont help

MTC.9536:

I am absolutely fine with removing burning and torment from the necro again. That will make it a lot more balanced and will increase the build variety.

If you do that then the power specs will need some serious balancing as well. Right now Staff + S/D condis is really tyhe only viable spec for necros.

I agree that burning its a little to much at the moment.

Forsaker and ventari showed pretty well whats wrong with where the balance in gw2 is heading to. not only powercreep but also AI, spammable abilities like dodging combined with boon stacking and stuff that has a too high influence of the outcome of a match. a good example of this is rallying, where teamfights are often manipulated through luck.

The problem is not burning having an high base damage.
Burning is, in fact, a great damage booster for elementalists and guardian whose sustained damage needs burning at low condition damage to be effective.

The problem is its uptime. A LB warrior can mantain permanently burning and even surpass the condition removals with no efforts at all. Sun Spirit does the same.

The uptime is the problem, not the scaling nor the damage.

I’ll add, it feels very cheap in a conquest mode, when my opponent can drop a giant fire field on the node, and I have no way to deal with it, if I wish to engage my opponent on the node. It is especially cheap when my opponent can drop this gigantic field, that I must deal with to engage in combat on the node, and then switch to a hammer and do a good deal of melee damage on top of that gigantic fire field. Even if I manage to boot the warrior off the node, the gigantic fire field remains a constant, unavoidable problem…..if I want that node.

Of course, I could just bail…but then I have 0% chance of capturing the node.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Forsaker and ventari showed pretty well whats wrong with where the balance in gw2 is heading to. not only powercreep but also AI, spammable abilities like dodging combined with boon stacking and stuff that has a too high influence of the outcome of a match. a good example of this is rallying, where teamfights are often manipulated through luck.

Do you have a link for this? I’m interested.

Kentrey.3251:

I personally think he’s wrong when it comes to necro. While the nerf should be done it shouldn’t just be a grandmaster trait and some torment on tainted shackles.

Its across the board with conditions in general.

I think the problem lies square with classes that can spam AOE conditions and get easy access to burning on top, namely necros and engies (and to a certain degree rangers). There should be some more skill splits between pvp/pve probably, and specific classes/skills looked at. Your suggestions would spill over into pve/wvw in a horrible, destructive way, leaving people wondering why they spent 100s of gold to gear up the way they did when Anet just uprooted whatever they built for.

MTC.9536:

To begin with I am Ventari (r52) and top 50 in the leaderboards and playing PVP since release without any stops that have lasted for more than 3 weeks, so I really know what is going on in the PVP section of Guild Wars 2. And currently I became even more frustrated than I was after the so-called “balancing patch”.

1.) Burning Problem!
Whenever I check my deathbreakdown, I see that I got most dmg from burning dealing about 20k-30k dmg and then there is a far distance and I get damage from other skills, mostly conditions which is really annyoing, eventhough I am playing necro. And the very simple reason for it is, that the base damage of this condition is far too high. Why would I get most damage from burning in a duell against a hammer/longbow warrior with berzerkers amulett?? It is not as if they get most damage from the direct damage of the attacks of my scepter as well??
Solution: Let the conditions scale more (and I mean a lot more) with condition damage and decrease the damage done by it by the same amount so the damage stays the same for condition classes and is only lowered for glasscannon classes.

2.) Warrior Problem
Every second player I am talking to (top100 laderboards) thinks that warrior is not OP but very close to it. If the burning problem is solved it will be a lot better with them, but the main problem is that it is the only class that deals 3k hits on a necro with 2.5k armor, while having all skill points spent in defensive traits. And yes my team has tested a lot to deal with double warrior setups and even tripple warrior setups but these setups are still too rewarding compared to the amount of tactical understanding and skill you need to counter it. And yes I learned how to deal with warris in duels…
Solution: Solve the burning problem or move the +50% crit chance on stunned foes trait to master or grandmaster trait or decrease the damage done by longbow #3 and the hammer skills by 20% or keep the damage and remove one of the hammer knockdowns or knockbacks so you don’t need to play energy sigil on every weapon set and still be not able to dodge everything.

Resume: This may sound a bit too hard, but if we think about the consequences warrior will still be viable without having more health, armor, damage and sustain with berzerkers amulett than any other class with rabid or other similar amuletts. I know the game is made for casuals but the ones who really want to play this game seriously want to have fun as well. So please make sure to fix this problem !soon!, or the rest of the top100 players will leave the game as well…

“I know this game is made for casuals, but ones who really want to play this game seriously want to have fun as well….”

You want to take it seriously?..broken 4 vs 5..slow patches to fix issues. Broken MMR, broken leaderboards, massively unfriendly profession styles of some professions, too much particle, character model size issues with asura, glitches all in skyhammer, title farming, ton-o-AI, heaps-o-passive…should I continue?..and you want to take it seriously? why not set up a checkerboard with chess pieces and remove 20% of them and say, ’let’s have a serious game of chess.’

MTC.9536:

To begin with I am Ventari (r52) and top 50 in the leaderboards and playing PVP since release without any stops that have lasted for more than 3 weeks, so I really know what is going on in the PVP section of Guild Wars 2. And currently I became even more frustrated than I was after the so-called “balancing patch”.

1.) Burning Problem!
Whenever I check my deathbreakdown, I see that I got most dmg from burning dealing about 20k-30k dmg and then there is a far distance and I get damage from other skills, mostly conditions which is really annyoing, eventhough I am playing necro. And the very simple reason for it is, that the base damage of this condition is far too high. Why would I get most damage from burning in a duell against a hammer/longbow warrior with berzerkers amulett?? It is not as if they get most damage from the direct damage of the attacks of my scepter as well??
Solution: Let the conditions scale more (and I mean a lot more) with condition damage and decrease the damage done by it by the same amount so the damage stays the same for condition classes and is only lowered for glasscannon classes.

I don’t think a breakdown sheet should be how someone guages “OPness” but that’s just me.

You guys think burning is bad, you probably haven’t seen Torment thieves yet.

Dirame.8521:

MTC.9536:

To begin with I am Ventari (r52) and top 50 in the leaderboards and playing PVP since release without any stops that have lasted for more than 3 weeks, so I really know what is going on in the PVP section of Guild Wars 2. And currently I became even more frustrated than I was after the so-called “balancing patch”.

1.) Burning Problem!
Whenever I check my deathbreakdown, I see that I got most dmg from burning dealing about 20k-30k dmg and then there is a far distance and I get damage from other skills, mostly conditions which is really annyoing, eventhough I am playing necro. And the very simple reason for it is, that the base damage of this condition is far too high. Why would I get most damage from burning in a duell against a hammer/longbow warrior with berzerkers amulett?? It is not as if they get most damage from the direct damage of the attacks of my scepter as well??
Solution: Let the conditions scale more (and I mean a lot more) with condition damage and decrease the damage done by it by the same amount so the damage stays the same for condition classes and is only lowered for glasscannon classes.

I don’t think a breakdown sheet should be how someone guages “OPness” but that’s just me.

You guys think burning is bad, you probably haven’t seen Torment thieves yet.

he is talking about pvp and here i have never ever seen a torment thief
Cheers,
Sensotix

sure you have, they are the pistol/dagger guys that touch you then tele back for 2 torment and stealth→5bleeds from pistol one. but kinda irrelevant as they are just griefing builds that belong in wvw.

Coulter.2315:

sure you have, they are the pistol/dagger guys that touch you then tele back for 2 torment and stealth->5bleeds from pistol one. but kinda irrelevant as they are just griefing builds that belong in wvw.

Actually, it can apply 12 stacks of torment in a matter of seconds, blink once and you’re dead. Works everywhere and quite effective against all classes, it even has a very cool technique to it that people can learn but that’s going off topic though. Burning, it’s OP and Warrior they OP too.

I was just thinking the same about burning recently. Base damage is too high. Going with your solution would be generally very good, however, I think it would kind of hurt guardians.
But yes, receiving 20k dmg burning from zerker warrior seems rather illogical and happened to me more than once.

vangedas.7358:

But yes, receiving 20k dmg burning from zerker warrior seems rather illogical and happened to me more than once.

assumed a Zerker Warrior has 300 Condition damage, burning would deal 403 DPS, so there had to be 50sec of burning on you to deal those 20k damage. Sure he was using Zerker?

Even with Full Condition damage you need 25-30sec to apply 20k with burning.

Op rank 52 and he doesn’t know he needs to stand inside the big red circle in order to get burned

.ps: that red circle got a huge nerf already maybe you missed the last patch notes .180 from 360 at 1 bar is pretty important huge nerf.

Pps:guardian burning is constant and permanent only with autoattack from range and you chose to qq about staying still into a ground area as obvious as a 12feet fat norn holding a big sign with an arrow pointed and reading"don’t afk inside here".Man these skyhammer farmers nowdays.

MTC.9536:

I am absolutely fine with removing burning and torment from the necro again. That will make it a lot more balanced and will increase the build variety.

I couldn’t believe they gave necro burning in the first place. I was so kittened that day. I knew exactly where that was going to take the game. But all I heard on the forums was about how “chopps you’re clueless”. Glad to see people wising up.

Dirame.8521:

Coulter.2315:

sure you have, they are the pistol/dagger guys that touch you then tele back for 2 torment and stealth->5bleeds from pistol one. but kinda irrelevant as they are just griefing builds that belong in wvw.

Actually, it can apply 12 stacks of torment in a matter of seconds, blink once and you’re dead. Works everywhere and quite effective against all classes, it even has a very cool technique to it that people can learn but that’s going off topic though. Burning, it’s OP and Warrior they OP too.

Technically more than a technique it’s a glitch that can be exploited with some practice. Practically, the investment in form of initiative is way too high for the potential damage (the torment stacks just don’t last long enough).

A warrior’s Flurry will deal around the same amount of damage and that skill is a little on the weak side in my opinion.

mini.6018:

Op rank 52 and he doesn’t know he needs to stand inside the big red circle in order to get burned

.ps: that red circle got a huge nerf already maybe you missed the last patch notes .180 from 360 at 1 bar is pretty important huge nerf.

Pps:guardian burning is constant and permanent only with autoattack from range and you chose to qq about staying still into a ground area as obvious as a 12feet fat norn holding a big sign with an arrow pointed and reading"don’t afk inside here".Man these skyhammer farmers nowdays.

LOL dude
in pvp you have to have nodes in order to win…i usually don’t text people like you back but ur arrogance is beyond being funny
when he is playing with his team and he is fighting on nodes (because that’s what people do to win) and a warrior just uses a fire field that is greater than the point you have to stand in it?in order to hold the point

Sensotix.4106:

mini.6018:

Op rank 52 and he doesn’t know he needs to stand inside the big red circle in order to get burned

.ps: that red circle got a huge nerf already maybe you missed the last patch notes .180 from 360 at 1 bar is pretty important huge nerf.

Pps:guardian burning is constant and permanent only with autoattack from range and you chose to qq about staying still into a ground area as obvious as a 12feet fat norn holding a big sign with an arrow pointed and reading"don’t afk inside here".Man these skyhammer farmers nowdays.

LOL dude
in pvp you have to have nodes in order to win…i usually don’t text people like you back but ur arrogance is beyond being funny
when he is playing with his team and he is fighting on nodes (because that’s what people do to win) and a warrior just uses a fire field that is greater than the point you have to stand in it?in order to hold the point

Maybe you missed the point but a guardian can do permanent burning on you and you don’t even have the option of avoiding that burn like you do on warrior.Also combustive shot is blockable, interruptable, needs full andrenaline or the area is180 range and on top of everything you can kill the warrior he is the crappiest bunker in the game after his 10 seconds of immunities wear off.
Besides all that the op was crying about burning damage on a zerker warrior and if anyone has problem killing a zerker warrior in a teamfight well….

I agree with all Ventari said, they are measured changes, forcing a warrior to take 20points to get +50% crit when stunning is perfectly acceptable – think of it along the lines of other profession defining Master Traits like Deceptive Evasion and Terror. Base Condi damage is also quite high especially when mixed with burning but I kinda think all damage needs a bit of a toning down.

I understand and share Ventari’s dislike about knowing you dodged every important skill versus a zerker and losing to weak condi application – number of times in the duel server where Poison and Mug have been the most damaging attacks or Bleedng and Torment from a Power Necro. Condis should be as ineffective for Power specs as Power is for Condi – eg. watch a condi spec trying to kill an AR engi.

I still think the best thing to do with burn is turn it into some kind of vital debuff similar to what poison is. Reduce the damage to 2x bleed and make it do something else.

Some examples:
Remove a boon each tick.
Apply vuln each tick.
Reduce the duration of all boons on you by 1 second each tick.

Burning is at the top of your death breakdown because it counts burning from all sources. DD can make up 70% of the damage taken, but if the single source of burning is higher than the 5-10+ sources of DD individually, then it will be first. I do think condition damage should be reduced or changed across the board. I don’t think condition builds should be viable as a pure damage alternative to power builds. Burning should have some sort of negative effect to it (Atherakhia had some interesting ones) and have reduced damage. Torment is nice in theory, but I don’t really think it punishes moving enough. Maybe remove the damage completely unless the target is moving, then increase the damage by 25-50% or something. Bleeding I think is okay in the current form, I had an idea where the damage increased per stack the higher the stack is (so 1 stack = 100 per tick, 2 = 240 per tick or 120 per stack and etc) but that seemed kind of gimmicky. Poison is great as it is. And while I realize this is becoming a bit of a tangent, I think condition damage should become something like “condition effect”. So the damage is the same, but lets say with 1000 condition effect (realistically it would be a percentage, so lets say 50%) poison goes from 33% heal nerf to 50%. Cripple could become a 75% snare, and so on. Immob or anything that goes above 100% might be a bit wonky though. It might just overlap into condition duration or have a secondary effect at that point.

All they need to do to fix warriors is to make Unsuspecting Foe a master trait. Nothing else. This forces hammer warriors to give up 30 points in Discipline, which will directly reduce the frequency of stuns substantially. However Unsuspecting Foe will remain viable as a trait and worth building around, and GS+Mace and Hammer+LB will still remain competitive. I’d also like them to increase the CD of Skullcrack by 5 seconds, or increase the cast time to 0.5 seconds, since that’s just not fun to play against. But that build isn’t exactly overpowered anyways, so it’s probably not necessary.

Coulter.2315:

I agree with all Ventari said, they are measured changes, forcing a warrior to take 20points to get +50% crit when stunning is perfectly acceptable – think of it along the lines of other profession defining Master Traits like Deceptive Evasion and Terror. Base Condi damage is also quite high especially when mixed with burning but I kinda think all damage needs a bit of a toning down.

I understand and share Ventari’s dislike about knowing you dodged every important skill versus a zerker and losing to weak condi application – number of times in the duel server where Poison and Mug have been the most damaging attacks or Bleedng and Torment from a Power Necro. Condis should be as ineffective for Power specs as Power is for Condi – eg. watch a condi spec trying to kill an AR engi.

I agree a 100%