Guild Wars 2

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Shaogin.2679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Shaogin.2679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Everyone spouting “condi cleanse” has never played against a burn engineer.

You can maintain 7 stacks of burning and reapply over and over and over if it is cleansed…. no amount of cleanse in the world can keep you alive.

…everyone cried about burn guardian, and now engineers are finally figuring out that their stuff is the absolute most broken out of any class capable of applying burn, and you better believe they are abusing it.

Cleanse works against condi guard, who needs to blow his load completely to achieve over 7 stacks of burning….. an enginer can practically autoattack with the flamethrower.

If an Engineer is keeping 7 stacks of burning on you then you are doing something seriously wrong. An Engineer can realistically maintain a decent 2-3 stacks of burning and can burst up to 10 stacks of burn on a lengthy cooldown. For him to maintain 7 stacks of burning, you must literally be standing in his fire fields complaining about how much it hurts.

You must literally be playing a different game, because 7 stacks can be maintained, and you can burst up to 22-23.

When traited (with Firearms grandmaster Incendiary Powder) and you blow your load completely…

Precast Bomb kit #2 – Fire Bomb + Toolbelt – Incendiary ammo + Toolbelt – Throw Napalm (fire field) + Flamethrower #4 – Napalm (fire field) + Flamethrower #1 – Flame Jet (Autoattack) + Flame turret + pistol #4 – Blowtorch

If you don’t blow your load completely, you can easily manage your cooldowns and maintain 7 stacks easily, all day long.

We are playing completely different games then. You’re hitting target dummies and I’m in pvp matches playing against competent players. Like I said, you would literally have to stand there in the Engineer’s fire fields.

The only way you are going to avoid the 7 stacks, is if you are not actually fighting anywhere near a capture point, and are instead fleeing for your life.

Also, you’d be surprised how many players share the same mentality as you about fire fields…. but end up staying a while and getting comfortable thanks to cc and immobilize.
Besides…. I’m sure you know how pvp works…. if the capture point is covered in fire fields, you aren’t going to want to stand in it. …and if you can’t stand on the point, you aren’t going to get the cap.

Dead Engi means no fire fields. You may lose the point momentarily, but you can take it back when the Engineer dies. If you kill yourself cause you are determined to stand on that point when you are running a build that can’t bunker while the Engineer is spamming burns on you, then you are the problem, not the Engineer. That’s the same as someone standing in a Necro Well intentionally and then complaining about how OP it is. Engineer burning is not OP, clueless players just make everything seem that way.

I agree that burning is OP. Nothing should be able to take you out in 2 seconds without skill. Like a burst out of stealth takes skill, but burning is just stupid.

AdmiralApril.5286:

I agree that burning is OP. Nothing should be able to take you out in 2 seconds without skill. Like a burst out of stealth takes skill, but burning is just stupid.

Allowing yourself to get taken out by burns in 2 sec is the epitome of no skill

AdmiralApril.5286:

I agree that burning is OP. Nothing should be able to take you out in 2 seconds without skill. Like a burst out of stealth takes skill, but burning is just stupid.

L2P dude.

AdmiralApril.5286:

I agree that burning is OP. Nothing should be able to take you out in 2 seconds without skill. Like a burst out of stealth takes skill, but burning is just stupid.

Wow I wana ride this post too XD
Stealth burst take skill? You mean skill what a macro can execute? XD

Oh my, I liked it more when the forum QQ was all about stealth teefs, at least you knew it’s uncounterable and your only way to survive it was an insta cast invulnerability if your class had access to it, but condi cleanse….

stagger your cleanses. don’t blast them all on 2 stacks like a goon. dont go in the fire AOEs. dodge attacks that do lots of burn. recognise that all teams will run AOE condi clear which make burning builds very ineffective in teamfights.

i got 14 burn stacks from a burn guard on my engi today and i cleansed them. it was fine, he’d burnt all his cooldowns and i won.

Shaogin.2679:

Burning damage doesn’t need to be nerfed, just some professions access to burning. It’s simple really, some professions are applying too many stacks of burning too easily, the main offenders being Elementalist and Guardian.

Engi’s have a mean burst that can stack a lot of burns also.

Actually burning DOES in fact need a nerf. I’m not one to run around screaming “Buff! Nerf! The sky is falling!” but in this instance, Burning stacks are notably strong.

For example, facing a Burn guard in PvP yesterday. The guard blasts me with heavy burning stacks (about 8-9?) which tick for 5k immediately. I cleanse them before they get a second tick. As im cleansing them (hell, im still in the postcast delay of the first cleanse skill), another few stacks are applied, ticking for about 2k once, and then a second time, before I get my next cleanse off. About 8 seconds later, I get a whopping 13 stacks of burn and get blasted for a 7k tick. I immediately cleanse this as well, before the second tick. Finally, a little after, a FOURTH application of burn for a few stacks, which start ticking away for 2k per second, and I’ve no more condi cleanse to drop because its all on CD. I’ve already taken 16k burning and thats without letting those burn stacks sit on me. And now im slowly melting to death while the Guard spams blocks and dodges and kites.

The only telegraphed part of this burn-spam was a quick purging flames cast, which is a 3/4s and has basically no telegraph at all on an Asura.

Anecdotal? Yes. But it’s not an isolated incident and is a symptom of the issue that is burning.

Burning is too easy to spam and apply, and/or ticks for far too much.

Condis in general, work very oddly in GW2.

Direct damage is Attacker Damage divided by Defenders Armor = Health lost

Condi damage is Attackers CondiDamage = Health lost

There is CondiDuration +/-, but since they exist on both sides of the equation, they often cancel out. And they remove damage off the BACK end, often not mattering a whole lot since 13 stacks of burn will down someone in 3-5 ticks, well before the duration comes into play.

I think what most class lacks is access to resistance, thi is a super new nice tool that is barely accessible right now (2 skills and all traited Mes glamours).
If more frequent this boon would really see nice clever uses like if you have too many stack of burn and no condi cleanse then relieve the pressure some seconds.

Sadly they introduced a new tool but forget to give it to people.

Nerf burning now.
Nerf passive rewarding play.

This is getting beyond ridiculous.

Burning is fine.

You know those big red circles? Don’t stand in them

Sube Dai.8496:

Burning is fine.

You know those big red circles? Don’t stand in them

Because every skill/trait applying burning has red circles now?
Ok.

I had a condi PU mesmer complain about the WS traitline on rangers being too cheese because it had a whooping total of 8 on demand condi clears which he could have outrotated. Irrelevant to this thread, maybe. But some people just don’t want you to have any condi clears whatsoever. Point of this is, everyone should always bring some kind of cleanse to a fight.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Burn guards apply more burning than any build can cleanse.. Stop protecting the broken to faceroll you’re way out.

This is verging on L2P territory, sorry. The majority of a guard’s burn application is telegraphed so you can just dodge it or mitigate it through other means. The torch is really, really easy to dodge, as is the ring.

Matty.1953:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Burn guards apply more burning than any build can cleanse.. Stop protecting the broken to faceroll you’re way out.

This is verging on L2P territory, sorry. The majority of a guard’s burn application is telegraphed so you can just dodge it or mitigate it through other means. The torch is really, really easy to dodge, as is the ring.

Right, Judges Intervention and Virtue procs are telegraphed.. Blocks burn aswel (trait). Not to mention the huge burst from Smite on Healing when you’re burning. (if using Carrion). I play Guardian myself, tyvm. Do you?

On Guardian, Judge’s Intervention and Virtue of Justice are the only burns without a telegraph. Judge’s Intervention is mainly used to burst high stacks of burn, that should be cleansed. Virtue of Justice isn’t life threatening if you have even somewhat decent condi cleanse or vitality. If you are getting burns because you are attacking the guardian while blocking, that is you’re own fault.

Point is, most of all the burns in the game have easily recognizable telegraphs. Some may be able to burst you with burn stacks without a telegraph, but that is what condition cleansed are for, and most of these high burn stack bursts have lengthy cool downs.

Still, burning does need some tweaking when it comes to how many stacks some skills apply, but nothing more.

Shaogin.2679:

On Guardian, Judge’s Intervention and Virtue of Justice are the only burns with a telegraph.

Err.. I was actually being sarcastic, they dont have a telegraph..

Some people just wanna watch the world burn

MarkPhilips.5169:

Base damage is really too high and 3 burning stacks on a single skill is like spike damage, not condi damage.

Professions like Ele D/D , guardian and condi engi (with flamethrower + ip + pistol oh) can stack a ridiculous quantity of burning too fast. I think every burning skill in their case shouldn’t apply more than 1 stack.

hi

i play a glass burn engi. the combo you mention requires me to be point blank, as range increases i apply less and less stacks, also, its almost impossible to pull off while facing an opponent directly unless they’re an utterly stupid person.

i have to wait for them to be engaged and preoccupied or use my long kitten CD low duration stealth to sneak up on them. so it requires a really good amount of set-up, much more so then on my BS thief and i can pull it off much less frequently.

in addition, i run glass for full effect, so yes, while i do down people, i also get downed very quick. i can go more tanky, but then i wont be downing other glass builds anymore, tried it out. incidentally, this only works vs glass builds or someone who has a good chunk of health already missing and their CDs are no longer available so its whoever gets a good jump on the opponent.

glass vs glass, 1st glass wins, working as intended to me.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Shaogin.2679:

On Guardian, Judge’s Intervention and Virtue of Justice are the only burns with a telegraph.

Err.. I was actually being sarcastic, they dont have a telegraph..

Oops, I meant to type without, not with. Fixed.

Condi cleanse? Yeah I love to remove 1 stack of vulnerability so that 15 stacks of burning wouldn’t hurt so much, ah how much I love condi cleanse.

Petoox.6570:

Condi cleanse? Yeah I love to remove 1 stack of vulnerability so that 15 stacks of burning wouldn’t hurt so much, ah how much I love condi cleanse.

1 stack of vulnerability is all of a sudden considered condi coverage? Boy would the guard forums have a field day with that one…

Tongku.5326:

]
hi

i play a glass burn engi. the combo you mention requires me to be point blank, as range increases i apply less and less stacks, also, its almost impossible to pull off while facing an opponent directly unless they’re an utterly stupid person.

i have to wait for them to be engaged and preoccupied or use my long kitten CD low duration stealth to sneak up on them. so it requires a really good amount of set-up, much more so then on my BS thief and i can pull it off much less frequently.

in addition, i run glass for full effect, so yes, while i do down people, i also get downed very quick. i can go more tanky, but then i wont be downing other glass builds anymore, tried it out. incidentally, this only works vs glass builds or someone who has a good chunk of health already missing and their CDs are no longer available so its whoever gets a good jump on the opponent.

glass vs glass, 1st glass wins, working as intended to me.

why would you play glass when you can do more damage than Marauder rifle with regular ol balanced burnin’ ?

The problem with most conditions is how they can be easily re-applied, while not all professions have the same access to condition removal.

While some can remove conditions to the point of making them irrelevant, others will die under heavy condition pressure even if they bring all condition removal their profession has to offer.

First of all, no autoattack should have conditions that last more than 1-2 seconds.

I agree with op, burning is completely overpowered and is very much ruining pvp

The problem is not the fire stacks, it is the overall output damage, when u can take down 2 players in 2-3 seconds something is fishy, Anet dumbed down the skill level that is needed to kill/down players, a thing that in gw1 was required team work.

If they dont want to die pick another class with a better gimmik.

Aeolus.3615:

The problem is not the fire stacks, it is the overall output damage, when u can take down 2 players in 2-3 seconds something is fishy, Anet dumbed down the skill level that is needed to kill/down players, a thing that in gw1 was required team work.

If they dont want to die pick another class with a better gimmik.

No ele is taking down 2 players in 2-3 seconds unless both are afk or already at very low hp…

thats next level exxageration.

It takes more time than that to even ramp up their might stacks than they have to land ALL of their fire spells on you… if you lose to DD ele in 2-3 secs, somethings wrong with you, not the ele

SkiTz.4590:

Aeolus.3615:

The problem is not the fire stacks, it is the overall output damage, when u can take down 2 players in 2-3 seconds something is fishy, Anet dumbed down the skill level that is needed to kill/down players, a thing that in gw1 was required team work.

If they dont want to die pick another class with a better gimmik.

No ele is taking down 2 players in 2-3 seconds unless both are afk or already at very low hp…

thats next level exxageration.

It takes more time than that to even ramp up their might stacks than they have to land ALL of their fire spells on you… if you lose to DD ele in 2-3 secs, somethings wrong with you, not the ele

2-3 seconds, lol seems exagg and definitely not from ele burning damage. He could be referring to a high burst fresh air build but….that’s dps.

It’s possible if he had 10% HP but not 2-3s from full HP

I agree with the statement that “burning doesn’t need a nerf just the access that some professions have to it.”

Burning is okay, Elementalists and Guardians just have too much access to it. Elementalists usually aren’t too bad to be honest because it takes them quite a bit longer to stack it on you. Guardians on the other hand can stack 10+ Burns on you in a matter of 2seconds and it does heavy damage. Like, high enough that if you don’t cleanse it within 1seconds time you’ll either be dead or dead very soon after.

Burn Guards are very easy to fight, especially if you have a little bit of cleanse or condition immunity like Diamond Skin or Berserker Stance. But regardless of whether they’re easy to fight or not, their access to burning needs to be adjusted. If you haven’t fought one you have no idea how hard it is to keep the burning off of you. It’s pretty much every 2 – 3 attacks that they apply it and if they want to they can insta-stack nearly a dozen which is almost equivalent to Eviscerate damage at times.

Kossuth.2168:

Nerf condi, ele OP, i want a win button… Always the same bs.

Stop going berk and start thinking on counter acting against this type of damage. People needs to stop crying and start thinking with their brains.

Reported for insulting behavior towards other users.

Jekkt.6045:

skills like judges intervention and cleansing fire need nerfs because they are instand without a tell. zealot’s flame on the other hand… it’s a big blue glowing thing flying towards you… that’s a l2p issue.

Reported for being provocative and insulting to users.

nothing humors me more than a player that runs in and out of my purging flames 10 5+ times in a row .. basically stacking 15+ stacks of burning on himself … then yelling at me in chat that burn guardian is for losers .. l2p ?

I say Burn is at a good spot (maybe needs a little nerf for the kittens) but, as other wise men have already stated, burn itself is not the issue. It’s the classes access to it.

People are just not allowed to complain about burn guard. It’s easily countered, has obvious tells, less survivable than a power medi guard, and literally has only 1 single damaging he could ever apply to you.

Ele on the other hand is a whole debate on its own. The ability to stack and maintain that much might and boon, the sustain it has, the raw power damage + the high access to the most damaging condi in a bursty stacking manner.. those are issues with ele.. not burn .. ele .. killing ele has always been annoying .. what they got with teh latest patch is a free addition to dps without any real loss in dps. Their burn wasn’t significant before and now it is. What needs to be done here is to balance the ELE’s access to burn.

For engis, i have yet to fight a burn based engi.. not sure what everyone is complaining about. If it’s op, why isn’t it all over the place? (really asking here)

Condi ranger access to burn is very positional and is not an issue. Their burn is stacking only if you’re standing in it. You say cc ? i say stun break. you say immob ? i say condi clear. you say need to cap point? well i’m yet to hear anyone yelling “nerf necro wells and marks cause i can’t stand on point” soo not sure what you want here.

I main guard .. and i’ve fiddled with burn guard .. it is fun to play. However, I NEVER fight an ele/necro/guardian. Why ? Because my dps potential is SIGNIFICANTLY reduced. They can outsustain me and carry a stronger burst on me while brushing off my burns. It’s unfortunate for thieves to die to burn guard but what’s new? thieves die to power medi as well .. and to ANY condi class even before burn.. Engis i like to take down. However a good engi that kites well can overwhelm my burn guard. Mesmers on the other hand is a flip of a coin. With a mesmer, the it boils down to who got the jump on whom. If mesmer spots you first, guard is dead. If Guard spots mesmer first, mesmer is dead. (assuming equal skill level)

Please consider the following when calling for a nerf on burn:

1- The condi itself was meant to be the strongest condi in the game
2- If the condi is too bursty due to stacking, the stacking it is the issue not the damage per stack. A balance of stacking access is what’s needed.
3- Should burn get nerfed, Guardian burning needs to be compensated by giving the guardian more access to stacks. why ? because it’s literally the only damaging condi they can apply. The damage they do on condi guard is at the same level or lower of the damage done with power guard while taking less surviavbility than power guard.

To leave you with final thoughts:
Guardian for a long long long long long long time has only had 2 builds. Bunker/support or Medi power .. anything outside of those wasn’t viable at competitive level. For the first time in ages guardian is having variety. In your crusade to seek a more balanced competitive gaming experience, I ask of you to be fair in and objective in what ask for. Balance burn for the classes that have a multitude of damage sources and multitude of condition sources.. don’t go prosecute the 1 trick pony.

ps: I’m still waiting on the rage on mesmers and the confusion change to be a ticking damage that is unavoidable. especially when mesmers can burst down tanks and when the tank survives they still have stacks over stacks of confusion to deal with.

Vapour.7348:

AdmiralApril.5286:

I agree that burning is OP. Nothing should be able to take you out in 2 seconds without skill. Like a burst out of stealth takes skill, but burning is just stupid.

Allowing yourself to get taken out by burns in 2 sec is the epitome of no skill

Reported for insulting the user.

Kossuth.2168:

AdmiralApril.5286:

I agree that burning is OP. Nothing should be able to take you out in 2 seconds without skill. Like a burst out of stealth takes skill, but burning is just stupid.

L2P dude.

Reported for being provocative and insulting.

and just FYI :

“For generic condition removal, the most recently applied condition or conditions will be removed first.”

source: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition