Guild Wars 2

Its so ovious that it has to be nerfed that i don’t even feel the need to explain this…

Condi cleanse?

/15nakedcharrs

Better cleanse second perfect then because next second you will be pretty much dead. And if you cleanse second perfect it just gets reaplied like candy.

Effort VS Reward in absolute perfection /sarcasm

Condi cleanse!

/15nakedcharrs

Condi cleanse.

…. Nope nope nope, wait just send it back! I dance on the ring of the fire and sending back everything XD

Zephyra.4709:

Condi cleanse?

/15nakedcharrs

not when ppl can apply burning twice as fast as you can cleanse it…you know unless you’re a dd ele you can’t just keep cleansing over and over again and some of those burning stacks are also instant (Judge’s intervention), random (Virtue of justice) or not requiring a real hit (Zealot’s flame) so you can’t even dodge…you can just cleanse until you have nothing left and then you’re dead, gg

Archaon.9524:

Zephyra.4709:

Condi cleanse?

/15nakedcharrs

not when ppl can apply burning twice as fast as you can cleanse it…you know unless you’re a dd ele you can’t just keep cleansing over and over again and some of those burning stacks are also instant (Aka burn guard) so you can’t even dodge…you can just cleanse until you have nothing left and then you’re dead, gg

And how often you can pull invulnerablety against direct damage? :P

I have to…

Burning is the only decent condition(sometimes confusion).

hisorange.3957:

Archaon.9524:

Zephyra.4709:

Condi cleanse?

/15nakedcharrs

not when ppl can apply burning twice as fast as you can cleanse it…you know unless you’re a dd ele you can’t just keep cleansing over and over again and some of those burning stacks are also instant (Aka burn guard) so you can’t even dodge…you can just cleanse until you have nothing left and then you’re dead, gg

And how often you can pull invulnerablety against direct damage? :P

you can dodge almost any high direct damage skill in the game…on the other hand how can you dodge virtue of justice or zealot’s flame? It’s like dodging incendiary powder…what are you gonna dodge exactly? Vs dps specs you already know which skills you have to mitigate…but you can’t mitigate istant and/or random stuff, expec if it’s also aoe

hope you can get the tiny little difference between those two situations

skills like judges intervention and cleansing fire need nerfs because they are instand without a tell. zealot’s flame on the other hand… it’s a big blue glowing thing flying towards you… that’s a l2p issue.

Jekkt.6045:

skills like judges intervention and cleansing fire need nerfs because they are instand without a tell. zealot’s flame on the other hand… it’s a big blue glowing thing flying towards you… that’s a l2p issue.

that’s zealot’s fire…

ok that you’re an ele and you probably don’t give a kitten to what ppl can throw at you, but at least l2read before posting bs

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Flame

“l2p” without even knowing what ppl are talking about..avg forum community lmao

There are more conditions next to burning to be applied so saying “condi cleanse” is absolute bs.

Even if we cleanse the burning, we would die to other conditions so that would make burning OP aswel, forcing us to use our cleanse for one condition.

Terrorsquad.2349:

There are more conditions next to burning to be applied so saying “condi cleanse” is absolute bs.

Even if we cleanse the burning, we would die to other conditions so that would make burning OP aswel, forcing us to use our cleanse for one condition.

Don’t forget that condi cleanse is randomized if I remember correctly. You want to cleanse the burn but you will probably cleanse whatever else!

Poliator.7021:

Terrorsquad.2349:

There are more conditions next to burning to be applied so saying “condi cleanse” is absolute bs.

Even if we cleanse the burning, we would die to other conditions so that would make burning OP aswel, forcing us to use our cleanse for one condition.

Don’t forget that condi cleanse is randomized if I remember correctly. You want to cleanse the burn but you will probably cleanse whatever else!

Oh. right.. Forgot about that..

Burning damage doesn’t need to be nerfed, just some professions access to burning. It’s simple really, some professions are applying too many stacks of burning too easily, the main offenders being Elementalist and Guardian.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Burning

But looking at that list, most of Ele burning is well telegraphed and Guardians rely on burning as their sole source of condi damage, making it easier to cleanse. Even so, it might be healthy for the game to tone down some of the stacks that some Ele and Guardian skills/traits apply. But nerfing burn damage only hurts the professions that don’t have as much access to burning and rely on it for burst condi damage.

Nerf condi, ele OP, i want a win button… Always the same bs.

Stop going berk and start thinking on counter acting against this type of damage. People needs to stop crying and start thinking with their brains.

The amount of stacks a single class can output needs to be toned down just a bit.

The damage is fine as it is, just not when the stacks go high in matter of seconds.

Archaon.9524:

Jekkt.6045:

skills like judges intervention and cleansing fire need nerfs because they are instand without a tell. zealot’s flame on the other hand… it’s a big blue glowing thing flying towards you… that’s a l2p issue.

that’s zealot’s fire…

ok that you’re an ele and you probably don’t give a kitten to what ppl can throw at you, but at least l2read before posting bs

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Flame

“l2p” without even knowing what ppl are talking about..avg forum community lmao

it’s still l2p.. the radius is 180, that’s literally nothing.. walk away from it, guardians don’t have any swiftness on burn guard…

My opinion is that burning is a stacking issue. Skills that give 3+ stacks of burning are spike damage skills. Normally those are on a long cool down. The key would be to cleanse after the high stacks however some classes have access to more than just 1-2 skills with 3+ stacks. I would review the stacks on some skills to move them inline with burst mechanics or tone down the stacks. I will say that celestial allows both damage and condition spike which is a boon to classes with multiple ways to apply damage but it isn’t just a celestial issue.

Burning is a bit over the top, like I said in another thread, slightly nerf burning but buff up poison, torment and bleeding to compensate, which would hopefully even out the loss of damage from burning.

Base damage is really too high and 3 burning stacks on a single skill is like spike damage, not condi damage.

Professions like Ele D/D , guardian and condi engi (with flamethrower + ip + pistol oh) can stack a ridiculous quantity of burning too fast. I think every burning skill in their case shouldn’t apply more than 1 stack.

Guardians only have access to one condition, burning. And the only way they can do a lot of damage is if they are using torch and condi runes in which case kite them. If they are using scepter, you can strafe avoid that so freaking easily.

So if you can cleanse the burn stacks when they burst you with Judges Intevention they have nothing left, especially if you can kite and do ranged damage to them.

So add more condis to guardian if the issue is condi guardian has only burning.

ATM burning is broken, it’s impossible to defend it. It’s designed to be a condition, damage over time, not instant burst. And the base damage is too high, what’s the sense in a Marauder build with 0 condi damage a guardian can hit for more than 800+/s ? Or a Celestial elementalist can go easiliy over 1k condi damage with only few might stacks.

PVE guys are happy because they can use a sinister build with guardian and engi, and in some case it’s better than zerker build, talking about damage (look the DnT review). And the issue is right there, a condi build who makes the same (or more) burst damage than a zerker build.

Not sense at all honestly.

Let’s be clear here. Burning is fine. What is not fine is the ability of eles, guards, and trap rangers to stack burns.

Also, for people who mention condi clear really haven’t played enough. Even as a bunker guard traited for condi removal, it is still easy to overwhelm them with burn stacks. That’s a problem.

Ironically, the only class that can clear the stacks effectively, is a D/D ele which is also part of a the burn stacking problem. Of course D/D ele is a whole different topic.

I disagree with the damage over time. The condition meta has been out of the game for going on 2 years. With passive condi clear as well as other condi clear skills, conditions were not viable builds. They were situation at best. Poison was the only valid condition and it wasn’t for dot but for hindering healing. Bleeding, Burning, Confusion, Torment, and Burning had no valid builds. Allowing for burst condi pressure is a valid way to bring condi classes back into the meta. The only issue is that with celestial, you can basically double the threat with burning AND direct damage. Supposedly, in all the ready ups, you needed to have 700 or more in condition damage to be effective therefore limiting celestial. However this is not true in reality. Now you can kitten celestial but I would say that gimping the stacks of burning on skills that shouldn’t have 3 stacks is the better way to go.

I would say that AOE burn should have less stacks than direct damage burn so long as Conquest is the only game in town.

style.6173:

Let’s be clear here. Burning is fine. What is not fine is the ability of eles, guards, and trap rangers to stack burns.

Also, for people who mention condi clear really haven’t played enough. Even as a bunker guard traited for condi removal, it is still easy to overwhelm them with burn stacks. That’s a problem.

Ironically, the only class that can clear the stacks effectively, is a D/D ele which is also part of a the burn stacking problem. Of course D/D ele is a whole different topic.

You forgot condi engi.

And the burning formula is not balanced, there would be less base damage and a little more better scale with condi damage.

@thiefz issue with condi damage meta basically was the shoutwar and ele D/D, not condi itself. Now it remains ele D/D that is amazing to remove condis. And there is ele rain in pvp

Cleanse harder bois. The time has come to make Ranger viable.

Jekkt.6045:

Archaon.9524:

Jekkt.6045:

skills like judges intervention and cleansing fire need nerfs because they are instand without a tell. zealot’s flame on the other hand… it’s a big blue glowing thing flying towards you… that’s a l2p issue.

that’s zealot’s fire…

ok that you’re an ele and you probably don’t give a kitten to what ppl can throw at you, but at least l2read before posting bs

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Flame

“l2p” without even knowing what ppl are talking about..avg forum community lmao

it’s still l2p.. the radius is 180, that’s literally nothing.. walk away from it, guardians don’t have any swiftness on burn guard…

stop trying m8…just stop plz

Oh and one more thing, rumors says Killshot warrior is viable against burning specs. Maybe its time to learn some different weapon spec for more esport. What do you guys think?

MarkPhilips.5169:

Base damage is really too high and 3 burning stacks on a single skill is like spike damage, not condi damage.

Professions like Ele D/D , guardian and condi engi (with flamethrower + ip + pistol oh) can stack a ridiculous quantity of burning too fast. I think every burning skill in their case shouldn’t apply more than 1 stack.

If you’re having issues with condi Engi that is your own fault. All of their damage is very well telegraphed. Their access to burning is most builds is limited to the last hit of a 2.25 second channel, napalm which is a burning line on the ground that is clearly visible, IP proc which is 2 stacks every 10 seconds, and blowtorch which is a max of 3 stacks if within 200 range, and IA which can burst you with burn stacks, but places an Icon on the Engineer’s bar so you KNOW it’s coming.

Same goes for Rangers. Their burn application abilities are very well telegraphed and completely avoidable. The biggest offender of unavoidable burns is the Guardian, but that comes in bursts and so you should know to save you cleanse for that burn stack burst which, also, you KNOW is coming.

Archaon.9524:

hisorange.3957:

Archaon.9524:

Zephyra.4709:

Condi cleanse?

/15nakedcharrs

not when ppl can apply burning twice as fast as you can cleanse it…you know unless you’re a dd ele you can’t just keep cleansing over and over again and some of those burning stacks are also instant (Aka burn guard) so you can’t even dodge…you can just cleanse until you have nothing left and then you’re dead, gg

And how often you can pull invulnerablety against direct damage? :P

you can dodge almost any high direct damage skill in the game…on the other hand how can you dodge virtue of justice or zealot’s flame? It’s like dodging incendiary powder…what are you gonna dodge exactly? Vs dps specs you already know which skills you have to mitigate…but you can’t mitigate istant and/or random stuff, expec if it’s also aoe

hope you can get the tiny little difference between those two situations

Let me educate you in the ways of burn Guardian.

Zealot’s Flame is only damaging if it hits multiple targets who stand together. It will otherwise proc F1 three times, delivering 2450 raw damage and 3500 burns in a course of 9 seconds.
Power Builds: Instant 4k – 4.7k raw damage, not counting Lightning/Fire sigil procs and other dmg modifiers.

Zealot’s Fire: Like others have stated, it’s a glow orb that can be seen for miles. Not to mention the Guardian himself will be lit with blue fire. Damage is 4376 in 4.75s
Power Builds: Instant 3k raw and a 1356 burn in 3s, not counting Lightning/Fire sigil procs and other dmg modifiers.

Judge’s Intervention: 4376 in 4.75 seconds
Purging Flames: 8751 in 8s
A single condi cleanse is a direct counter to either one. Who ever can’t condi cleanse these are just bad. The only excuse you have is if a condi guard +1’s a fight and you didn’t have any cd’s. In which case, you would have died regardless.
Power Builds: Instant 4.2k damage with Smite Condition, not counting Lightning/Fire sigil procs and other dmg modifiers. Mesmers and Thieves hate this by the way.

F1 Procs
Burn Guardian’s MAIN form of damage. We will otherwise do 1/4 the damage of Power builds. The only time Burn guards do more damage than power builds is 1) We waste 3 or 4 high cd utilities, of which, makes us very vulnerable afterwards. 2) If we cleave in group fights. Both are equally counter/negate/avoidable.

Conclusion – TL;DR
Don’t dodge F1 procs, dodge our high hit rate attacks like whirling wrath, torch#5, symbols etc and avoid standing next to your allies or minions. Save cleanses for PoF, Judges Intervention and Zealot’s Flame. Burn Guardians are easier to fight 1v1 than power builds – you should have no issues or excuses!

Shaogin.2679:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Base damage is really too high and 3 burning stacks on a single skill is like spike damage, not condi damage.

Professions like Ele D/D , guardian and condi engi (with flamethrower + ip + pistol oh) can stack a ridiculous quantity of burning too fast. I think every burning skill in their case shouldn’t apply more than 1 stack.

If you’re having issues with condi Engi that is your own fault. All of their damage is very well telegraphed. Their access to burning is most builds is limited to the last hit of a 2.25 second channel, napalm which is a burning line on the ground that is clearly visible, IP proc which is 2 stacks every 10 seconds, and blowtorch which is a max of 3 stacks if within 200 range, and IA which can burst you with burn stacks, but places an Icon on the Engineer’s bar so you KNOW it’s coming.

Same goes for Rangers. Their burn application abilities are very well telegraphed and completely avoidable. The biggest offender of unavoidable burns is the Guardian, but that comes in bursts and so you should know to save you cleanse for that burn stack burst which, also, you KNOW is coming.

So much this. Guardian also only applies burning (with the occasional blind). If you can’t out-cleanse one condition, consider changing your build, not the guardian burns.

Salamander.2504:

Shaogin.2679:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Base damage is really too high and 3 burning stacks on a single skill is like spike damage, not condi damage.

Professions like Ele D/D , guardian and condi engi (with flamethrower + ip + pistol oh) can stack a ridiculous quantity of burning too fast. I think every burning skill in their case shouldn’t apply more than 1 stack.

If you’re having issues with condi Engi that is your own fault. All of their damage is very well telegraphed. Their access to burning is most builds is limited to the last hit of a 2.25 second channel, napalm which is a burning line on the ground that is clearly visible, IP proc which is 2 stacks every 10 seconds, and blowtorch which is a max of 3 stacks if within 200 range, and IA which can burst you with burn stacks, but places an Icon on the Engineer’s bar so you KNOW it’s coming.

Same goes for Rangers. Their burn application abilities are very well telegraphed and completely avoidable. The biggest offender of unavoidable burns is the Guardian, but that comes in bursts and so you should know to save you cleanse for that burn stack burst which, also, you KNOW is coming.

So much this. Guardian also only applies burning (with the occasional blind). If you can’t out-cleanse one condition, consider changing your build, not the guardian burns.

Burn guards apply more burning than any build can cleanse.. Stop protecting the broken to faceroll you’re way out.

Honestly it’s a little waste of time try to answer to people who wants to defend burning and builds at every cost. So

Anet topic:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/first —> Things we know

1) Conditions seem a bit strong
4) There are some overpowered builds

They’re working on it and i think they need to find the best compromise for every game mode (pve/www/spvp) so it’s not super easy to fix.

We need to wait.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Salamander.2504:

Shaogin.2679:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Base damage is really too high and 3 burning stacks on a single skill is like spike damage, not condi damage.

Professions like Ele D/D , guardian and condi engi (with flamethrower + ip + pistol oh) can stack a ridiculous quantity of burning too fast. I think every burning skill in their case shouldn’t apply more than 1 stack.

If you’re having issues with condi Engi that is your own fault. All of their damage is very well telegraphed. Their access to burning is most builds is limited to the last hit of a 2.25 second channel, napalm which is a burning line on the ground that is clearly visible, IP proc which is 2 stacks every 10 seconds, and blowtorch which is a max of 3 stacks if within 200 range, and IA which can burst you with burn stacks, but places an Icon on the Engineer’s bar so you KNOW it’s coming.

Same goes for Rangers. Their burn application abilities are very well telegraphed and completely avoidable. The biggest offender of unavoidable burns is the Guardian, but that comes in bursts and so you should know to save you cleanse for that burn stack burst which, also, you KNOW is coming.

So much this. Guardian also only applies burning (with the occasional blind). If you can’t out-cleanse one condition, consider changing your build, not the guardian burns.

Burn guards apply more burning than any build can cleanse.. Stop protecting the broken to faceroll you’re way out.

Present evidence to back up such a claim or get lost. Stop making ridiculous posts on your way out.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Honestly it’s a little waste of time try to answer to people who wants to defend burning and builds at every cost. So

Anet topic:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Things-we-know/first —> Things we know

1) Conditions seem a bit strong
4) There are some overpowered builds

They’re working on it and i think they need to find the best compromise for every game mode (pve/www/spvp) so it’s not super easy to fix.

We need to wait.

We in favor of burning have stated multiple times that it does need to be adjusted, but the damage isn’t the problem, it’s the stacks of burning that are being put out by certain skills. The stacks are what needs to be reduced otherwise you indirectly nerf other professions that were using burn builds but have not been a problem.

Shaogin.2679:

I’m not saying is a bad idea

We see what Anet will do.

Burning is not broken. Ele burning is broken (RoF)

Burn guards can do heavy damage but they are very squishy. Necros have an easier time killing these than eles.

d/d Eles apply burning from the ground via RoF, traited cleansing fire, cleansing fire, drakes breath AND still have high sustain. ele burns = Low CD, lots of sources for burn dmg, higher stacks

Engies can apply serious burns as well but the sources of burning dmg are limited and have a long CD.

Warrior LB burning is meh. Duration short, stacks are low

Ranger burns are meh. 25s CD on torch 5 and flame trap 15s CD. Damage by single stack pulse instead of quick multi-stack

Terrorsquad.2349:

Burn guards apply more burning than any build can cleanse.. Stop protecting the broken to faceroll you’re way out.

Going to have to disagree. Elementalists have more 3 stack burn skills than guard. Guard has 2. One of those is a ring of flames and one is a teleport. One you can see, the other you can’t. A good burn guard will use F1 prior to the teleport to proc immob then drop purging flames. Cleanse and roll out. It’s stacks, really. 1 Stack of burning is not your issue. Not to mention that if F1 just got used, you won’t be taking any more burn from virtues. Only from blocks.

Look, I get it. Burn stacks are high for AOE skills from guards and Elementalists so the conquest game is no fun since you have to sit on the point or roll around and get burn damage. Wells don’t put out anywhere near as much damage nor do bombs. So bring the stacks inline and all will be well.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Salamander.2504:

Shaogin.2679:

MarkPhilips.5169:

Base damage is really too high and 3 burning stacks on a single skill is like spike damage, not condi damage.

Professions like Ele D/D , guardian and condi engi (with flamethrower + ip + pistol oh) can stack a ridiculous quantity of burning too fast. I think every burning skill in their case shouldn’t apply more than 1 stack.

If you’re having issues with condi Engi that is your own fault. All of their damage is very well telegraphed. Their access to burning is most builds is limited to the last hit of a 2.25 second channel, napalm which is a burning line on the ground that is clearly visible, IP proc which is 2 stacks every 10 seconds, and blowtorch which is a max of 3 stacks if within 200 range, and IA which can burst you with burn stacks, but places an Icon on the Engineer’s bar so you KNOW it’s coming.

Same goes for Rangers. Their burn application abilities are very well telegraphed and completely avoidable. The biggest offender of unavoidable burns is the Guardian, but that comes in bursts and so you should know to save you cleanse for that burn stack burst which, also, you KNOW is coming.

So much this. Guardian also only applies burning (with the occasional blind). If you can’t out-cleanse one condition, consider changing your build, not the guardian burns.

Burn guards apply more burning than any build can cleanse.. Stop protecting the broken to faceroll you’re way out.

Nice ad hominem. I don’t play a burn guard though, so I’m not defending my build. I’ve tried it out, and it’s useless against anyone who knows what they are doing. Marauder amu with torch applies some moderate burning, but I suggest you worry more about the 8k hammer2+torch4 hits than the measly burns..the burns are more for panic/distraction than anything else, because people freak out when they see any stacks of burning right now, even if they are weak. If you are dying to burning from a Marauder guard its an l2p issue for both you and the guard.

Consider making a Marauder [or even a full condi] guardian and try one out before you call me “faceroll.” Also, I eat burning guards for breakfast on my guard, necro, and [laugh] ranger. Somehow, I’m able to cleanse, even though “no build can cleanse that many burns.”

Everyone spouting “condi cleanse” has never played against a burn engineer.

You can maintain 7 stacks of burning and reapply over and over and over if it is cleansed…. no amount of cleanse in the world can keep you alive.

…everyone cried about burn guardian, and now engineers are finally figuring out that their stuff is the absolute most broken out of any class capable of applying burn, and you better believe they are abusing it.

Cleanse works against condi guard, who needs to blow his load completely to achieve over 7 stacks of burning….. an enginer can practically autoattack with the flamethrower.

abc.5790:

Burning is not broken. Ele burning is broken (RoF)

Burn guards can do heavy damage but they are very squishy. Necros have an easier time killing these than eles.

d/d Eles apply burning from the ground via RoF, traited cleansing fire, cleansing fire, drakes breath AND still have high sustain. ele burns = Low CD, lots of sources for burn dmg, higher stacks

Engies can apply serious burns as well but the sources of burning dmg are limited and have a long CD.

Warrior LB burning is meh. Duration short, stacks are low

Ranger burns are meh. 25s CD on torch 5 and flame trap 15s CD. Damage by single stack pulse instead of quick multi-stack

bruh ranger has quick draw + traited cooldowns on traps and offhand weapons….. bonfire (9 stacks of burn) , 8 secs later, another bonfire… + flame trap is 12 sec… gl handling that.. after all the other condi’s ranger can throw at you (plenty of poisons and bleeding and constantly being annoyed by pet/taunt…

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Everyone spouting “condi cleanse” has never played against a burn engineer.

You can maintain 7 stacks of burning and reapply over and over and over if it is cleansed…. no amount of cleanse in the world can keep you alive.

…everyone cried about burn guardian, and now engineers are finally figuring out that their stuff is the absolute most broken out of any class capable of applying burn, and you better believe they are abusing it.

Cleanse works against condi guard, who needs to blow his load completely to achieve over 7 stacks of burning….. an enginer can practically autoattack with the flamethrower.

If an Engineer is keeping 7 stacks of burning on you then you are doing something seriously wrong. An Engineer can realistically maintain a decent 2-3 stacks of burning and can burst up to 10 stacks of burn on a lengthy cooldown. For him to maintain 7 stacks of burning, you must literally be standing in his fire fields complaining about how much it hurts.

Shaogin.2679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Everyone spouting “condi cleanse” has never played against a burn engineer.

You can maintain 7 stacks of burning and reapply over and over and over if it is cleansed…. no amount of cleanse in the world can keep you alive.

…everyone cried about burn guardian, and now engineers are finally figuring out that their stuff is the absolute most broken out of any class capable of applying burn, and you better believe they are abusing it.

Cleanse works against condi guard, who needs to blow his load completely to achieve over 7 stacks of burning….. an enginer can practically autoattack with the flamethrower.

If an Engineer is keeping 7 stacks of burning on you then you are doing something seriously wrong. An Engineer can realistically maintain a decent 2-3 stacks of burning and can burst up to 10 stacks of burn on a lengthy cooldown. For him to maintain 7 stacks of burning, you must literally be standing in his fire fields complaining about how much it hurts.

You must literally be playing a different game, because 7 stacks can be maintained, and you can burst up to 22-23.

When traited (with Firearms grandmaster Incendiary Powder) and you blow your load completely…

Precast Bomb kit #2 – Fire Bomb + Toolbelt – Incendiary ammo + Toolbelt – Throw Napalm (fire field) + Flamethrower #4 – Napalm (fire field) + Flamethrower #1 – Flame Jet (Autoattack) + Flame turret + pistol #4 – Blowtorch

If you don’t blow your load completely, you can easily manage your cooldowns and maintain 7 stacks easily, all day long (with or without repeated cleanse on your opponent, since the burn stacks expire quickly as it is).

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Shaogin.2679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Everyone spouting “condi cleanse” has never played against a burn engineer.

You can maintain 7 stacks of burning and reapply over and over and over if it is cleansed…. no amount of cleanse in the world can keep you alive.

…everyone cried about burn guardian, and now engineers are finally figuring out that their stuff is the absolute most broken out of any class capable of applying burn, and you better believe they are abusing it.

Cleanse works against condi guard, who needs to blow his load completely to achieve over 7 stacks of burning….. an enginer can practically autoattack with the flamethrower.

If an Engineer is keeping 7 stacks of burning on you then you are doing something seriously wrong. An Engineer can realistically maintain a decent 2-3 stacks of burning and can burst up to 10 stacks of burn on a lengthy cooldown. For him to maintain 7 stacks of burning, you must literally be standing in his fire fields complaining about how much it hurts.

You must literally be playing a different game, because 7 stacks can be maintained, and you can burst up to 22-23.

When traited (with Firearms grandmaster Incendiary Powder) and you blow your load completely…

Precast Bomb kit #2 – Fire Bomb + Toolbelt – Incendiary ammo + Toolbelt – Throw Napalm (fire field) + Flamethrower #4 – Napalm (fire field) + Flamethrower #1 – Flame Jet (Autoattack) + Flame turret + pistol #4 – Blowtorch

If you don’t blow your load completely, you can easily manage your cooldowns and maintain 7 stacks easily, all day long.

We are playing completely different games then. You’re hitting target dummies and I’m in pvp matches playing against competent players. Like I said, you would literally have to stand there in the Engineer’s fire fields.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Everyone spouting “condi cleanse” has never played against a burn engineer.

You can maintain 7 stacks of burning and reapply over and over and over if it is cleansed…. no amount of cleanse in the world can keep you alive.

…everyone cried about burn guardian, and now engineers are finally figuring out that their stuff is the absolute most broken out of any class capable of applying burn, and you better believe they are abusing it.

Cleanse works against condi guard, who needs to blow his load completely to achieve over 7 stacks of burning….. an enginer can practically autoattack with the flamethrower.

Boggles my mind you’d complain about engie burns when eles have access to a potential of 6 stacks of burning every 10 seconds with RoF ALONE.

I main an engie and the highest realistic (something that occurs in a match not vs dummies) stacks of burn I can land is between 10-11 depending on when IP procs.

One of our best burning skills have a 50 sec CD. In fact a lot of our burn skills either have long cd or apply pulsing damage instead of quick multi-stack.

SkiTz.4590:

abc.5790:

Burning is not broken. Ele burning is broken (RoF)

Burn guards can do heavy damage but they are very squishy. Necros have an easier time killing these than eles.

d/d Eles apply burning from the ground via RoF, traited cleansing fire, cleansing fire, drakes breath AND still have high sustain. ele burns = Low CD, lots of sources for burn dmg, higher stacks

Engies can apply serious burns as well but the sources of burning dmg are limited and have a long CD.

Warrior LB burning is meh. Duration short, stacks are low

Ranger burns are meh. 25s CD on torch 5 and flame trap 15s CD. Damage by single stack pulse instead of quick multi-stack

bruh ranger has quick draw + traited cooldowns on traps and offhand weapons….. bonfire (9 stacks of burn) , 8 secs later, another bonfire… + flame trap is 12 sec… gl handling that.. after all the other condi’s ranger can throw at you (plenty of poisons and bleeding and constantly being annoyed by pet/taunt…

bruh I was staying on topic with this thread about burn damage
Also, bonfire does not apply 9 stacks of burning, it applies 9 stacks of PULSING burns, which is a huge ripoff compared to what RoF could do. Same goes for flame trap, pulsing burns. Same goes for engineer’s napalm, pulsing burns.

Shaogin.2679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Shaogin.2679:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Everyone spouting “condi cleanse” has never played against a burn engineer.

You can maintain 7 stacks of burning and reapply over and over and over if it is cleansed…. no amount of cleanse in the world can keep you alive.

…everyone cried about burn guardian, and now engineers are finally figuring out that their stuff is the absolute most broken out of any class capable of applying burn, and you better believe they are abusing it.

Cleanse works against condi guard, who needs to blow his load completely to achieve over 7 stacks of burning….. an enginer can practically autoattack with the flamethrower.

If an Engineer is keeping 7 stacks of burning on you then you are doing something seriously wrong. An Engineer can realistically maintain a decent 2-3 stacks of burning and can burst up to 10 stacks of burn on a lengthy cooldown. For him to maintain 7 stacks of burning, you must literally be standing in his fire fields complaining about how much it hurts.

You must literally be playing a different game, because 7 stacks can be maintained, and you can burst up to 22-23.

When traited (with Firearms grandmaster Incendiary Powder) and you blow your load completely…

Precast Bomb kit #2 – Fire Bomb + Toolbelt – Incendiary ammo + Toolbelt – Throw Napalm (fire field) + Flamethrower #4 – Napalm (fire field) + Flamethrower #1 – Flame Jet (Autoattack) + Flame turret + pistol #4 – Blowtorch

If you don’t blow your load completely, you can easily manage your cooldowns and maintain 7 stacks easily, all day long.

We are playing completely different games then. You’re hitting target dummies and I’m in pvp matches playing against competent players. Like I said, you would literally have to stand there in the Engineer’s fire fields.

The only way you are going to avoid the 7 stacks, is if you are not actually fighting anywhere near a capture point, and are instead fleeing for your life.

Also, you’d be surprised how many players share the same mentality as you about fire fields…. but end up staying a while and getting comfortable thanks to cc and immobilize.
Besides…. I’m sure you know how pvp works…. if the capture point is covered in fire fields, you aren’t going to want to stand in it. …and if you can’t stand on the point, you aren’t going to get the cap.

abc.5790:

TheBlackLeech.9360:

Everyone spouting “condi cleanse” has never played against a burn engineer.

You can maintain 7 stacks of burning and reapply over and over and over if it is cleansed…. no amount of cleanse in the world can keep you alive.

…everyone cried about burn guardian, and now engineers are finally figuring out that their stuff is the absolute most broken out of any class capable of applying burn, and you better believe they are abusing it.

Cleanse works against condi guard, who needs to blow his load completely to achieve over 7 stacks of burning….. an enginer can practically autoattack with the flamethrower.

Boggles my mind you’d complain about engie burns when eles have access to a potential of 6 stacks of burning every 10 seconds with RoF ALONE.

I main an engie and the highest realistic (something that occurs in a match not vs dummies) stacks of burn I can land is between 10-11 depending on when IP procs.

One of our best burning skills have a 50 sec CD. In fact a lot of our burn skills either have long cd or apply pulsing damage instead of quick multi-stack.

Here are some pointers….
make sure you are using the utilities best suited for applying burns.
Not only do the utilities themselves help apply burning (flame thrower, flame turret, etc.) …. but the toolbelt skills apply burn also, as I’m sure you are aware. (Icendiary ammo + Throw Napalm)
You already know about IP….
What about a Sigil of Smoldering…. + runes of balthazar?

Those are a definite must for the build.

Make sure you are traited every way possible to reduce cooldowns on your skills that apply burns, that includes rc on toolbelt, and pistol skills.

TheBlackLeech.9360:

flame turret

You lost me at ^

Back on topic, engie burning damage is not OP. Burning is only ridiculous when it comes from ele high stack and frequent application from short CDs and RoF bug.

Burning is ridiculously awesome! I’ve always love roasting things, and now it actually works! I find facing burn bombers the same difficulty as zerk thieves and mesmers. A mistake or two and you are toast, for sure. Theses things you can try:

1. Save your condi cleanse for when you start to take high damage. Don’t spam it.
2. Sigils of generosity <sinister grin>
3. Runes of Melandru
4. Be aggressive but… Don’t stand in fire fields.
5. Kill the fire spirit
6. D/D Elems are most dangerous in their fire attunement, damage them fast when they switch to it, so they are forced to leave it. Save your hard hitting skills for their fire rotation.

Condi cleanse is currently the best solution we have to dealing with burning. There is no argument; burning is currently overpowered and needs to be nerfed in some way. This is coming from someone who has extensively played with a burn-guardian, and against burn guardians/other burning builds.