Guild Wars 2

My name is Caed. I am a thief, always was and always will be. I am posting because I see a severe lack of high level thieves in sPvP/tPvP. I am not claiming to be the best or to know everything, but my knowledge of the class and game is extensive and my propensity to help others is gradually increasing. I have been asked to make guides and tutorials but I lack the time and equipment to accomplish that.

So my proposal to the thief community is this: I am here to help and answer any questions players may have regarding the thief class, whether it be skills, traits, gear, or play style. I enjoy the game and the class and want to share my knowledge and enjoyment to others. In exchange I want others to do the same and help the community as a whole raise their skill level.

-Caed Aeterna
Twitch: www.twitch.tv/Narcarsis

If you want help with the thief class send me a message or mail in game and I will respond as quickly and thoroughly as possible (I may be in a game or afk, please be patient).

Builds; Copy and Paste them into your URL.

Caed’s Backstab [Dagger/Pistol]: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c3RV-BFSwk0-5-FOFd0;9;4OT;0E28-59A;44;0LNV4-BX4Ewk2Ewk25Bb

Positioning is the most important thing and something you have to learn based on the position of the enemy team and the map, as well as your preference on aggression, defense, and team orientation. Timing is incredibly important as well and you must be patient to ensure that your burst is not negated. After you burst a target you either leave for a teammate to stomp or you switch to shortbow and continue to damage other targets. Don’t undervalue your shortbow, it is one of the strongest weapons in the game.

Venom Share [Sword/Pistol]: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cFRV-BFSwk0-T53PFd0;9;4T-T-927B;138B;14;0YNV4-BX4Ewk2Ewk25Bf

Venom share is a team fight spec, it is still relatively squishy but you are able to get in more with the evasion on pistol whip. If you want you can sacrifice some damage and take a soldier’s amulet for some added toughness. Your main role is you give your damage dealer venom to ensure that they hit their target, second to immobilize/stun high priority targets, third to peel, and fourth is damage. You have an extremely high amount of mobility with Infiltrator’s Strike and Shadowstep, as well as condition removal on both of those and the trait in Shadow Arts. Manage your initiative carefully and keep an eye out for their high damage classes. Call out every CC you put so that your team can implement burst skills into your rotation.

Rainbow Unicorn Death Blossom: http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c33V-BFSwk0-S5FOkd0;9;6TJJ;437A19-26-KZV8-BX4jwmAjwmA2Fe

This is a Node Assault build. Due to stealth not being able to cap nodes it is not very effective at holding a node. However with a constant barrage of AoE Bleeds, Consistent health regeneration, and the highest evade/damage skill in the game you are incredulously hard to kill. It takes roughly the same effort to 1v3 as it does to 1v1 someone with this spec. Keep an eye out for CC and make sure you dodge it, use your Steal and Cloak and Dagger as a mini heal. Drop Caltrops and Choking Gas on a point to keep constant pressure on the defender. Switch out Rabid for Shamans if against a heavy burst team (keep the carrion gem). This spec works better on Niflhel and Khylo.

References available upon request.

What do you consider to be the major weaknesses of the thief class?

Thank you so much.. Its nice to see some of the top dogs willing to mentor..
and yes its hard to find a good thief. They are a myth :P

Shanks R Us.2489:

What do you consider to be the major weaknesses of the thief class?

The biggest issue with thief is that it is the squishiest class in the game when playing what is the current “optimal” spec. Because of this it is the only class that cannot stand on a point in a fight. Whether it be direct damage or conditions, cleave will kill a thief in a matter of seconds. Positioning is the most important aspect of the class due to it’s fragility. Any other class, even a burst Mesmer (due to multiple invulnerabilities,) can stand on a point during a fight, giving you an edge on capping the node.

While this is an issue with the class it is a necessary weakness due to the high damage output, mobility, and evasion/stealth that the class has. It is a trade off that other classes sacrifice for.

Re: The venom share.. why only 2 venoms? 6 hits of leeching spider venom shared with a teammate or 2 is a lot of burst damage/healing, compared even to haste. That’s a lot invested into venom sharing to only have 5 available triggers every 36 seconds. Also the paralyzation sigil on your offhand won’t actually increase the duration of ANY of your stuns/dazes since they’re all already rounded up to 1 second.

That’s actually supposed to be a force sigil, should have checked over that before I posted it my bad – fixed.

As for the venoms it’s for the CC. While it may provide more healing to take Spider Venom the damage increase isn’t as high as you think. There are other sources of poison on most every team comp. Haste is incredibly useful for stomps, getting people up from down state, and even capping buffs in temple (not to mention the normal use for burst pistol whips).

You’d think thiefs would be the strongest class based on how much the forums whine about them. But in the top level of play you don’t see that many thiefs at all. Its so important to pick the right time for your burst and not just do it.
Of the three builds youve listed, ive found backstab to be probably the highest skill cap to play, but the most effective.

Alot of the top EU thiefs seem to go D/D. I know it has higher initial burst. IT does more damage in 3 seconds, but less in 6 or more. Also d/p has more escape.

I find build three ‘node assault’ does very well in free tournies. But seems to fade from usefulness in paids.

Yes, node assault isn’t a very viable spec if the other team has an Ele (which always seems to be the case). The reason being is that there are no other classes with sufficient condition removal in a 1v1 to be able to outlast the bleed damage. However it can still be dealt with by a high damage burst class rotating to defend their home point. If you don’t see them and they jump you w/o a stun break you will die.

Venom share is incredibly strong but not a hard build to play and also one where I find isn’t as rewarding as backstab. I personally play D/P backstab, because I feel that if played correctly it has the most benefit of any spec.

The difference between D/D and D/P burst potential is minimal, while the trade off for it is huge. While you say D/P has less burst that is actually incorrect, it has a tad bit more, and gets stronger the lower initial health of the target. The only benefit of D/D is a faster and easier combo that is more forgiving on positioning. D/P takes a second to set up, however the damage comes at roughly the same time as D/D (maybe ~0.10 seconds slower). While this is more than enough time to use a stun break (as you can easily do with D/D) it’s a combo that you save until you know the target has no escape. Other combo’s can also kill squishy targets very easily (such as steal/backstab out of stealth). Additionally D/P provides an enormous amount of team utility with Headshot and Blinding Powder, as well as an excellent chase skill (when chilled) with Shadow Shot. Another benefit of D/P is that the stealth is guaranteed, whereas the stealth on Cloak and Dagger can be negated by a skillful player with a blind, dodge roll, or daze.

Yes, i think D/p is a higher skillcap by a little than D/D but ultimately better.

And yes. D/p is so useful, smoke cloud on stomps is just incredible.

Seriously, don’t you think S/P and D/D condi are overall BAD builds ?

Why did you even post them, when i’m sure you know they’re not as effective as the common glass cannon build ?

We all know the thief needs serious buffs in order to have more build diversity, and we know that somehow thief burst will be nerfed.

If those things don’t happen at the same time, i’m foretelling bad times for thieves fellas.

i am happy that some ppl trying to help new players and so on but none of the builds u made is viable in the current meta except d/p
if u want to help new players make a d/d,extended d/p guide
u guys playing differnet meta but it doesnt matter because d/p,d/d is superior in any possible way atm
d/d condi and pistolwhip are pub specs atm nothing more
good job anyway.

The harasment condition spec has the advantage of being easy to play, and holds up ok if ur solo Quing in frees. so might not be a bad way for a super brand new player to get into pvp and not be utterally useless.
HOWEVER. its true that its less viable.

I play D/P, and exclusively D/P. But there are players who’s playstyle is not D/P or D/D backstab. While condition thief is not viable in the meta (or just in the game type alone) it is still an incredibly strong build and in no means needs a buff. A rework would make far more sense, allow the thief to do more than 1 source of conditions through the weapon set. However it is a good build to learn mechanics on as well as when to do certain things BECAUSE it is forgiving. Players can make mistakes, see them, but not be completely punished for them. Do I think it’s viable for high level play? No. Do I think it will help people learn the game? Yes.

Now, please try to tell me why S/P venom share is not viable. It is THE team fight spec and has by far one of the strongest team fight utilities in the game. While it may not do as much damage is has far more utility and takes more coordination to make effective. If you can’t manage to talk to your team then yes, it’s not going to do very much. It’s not a solo build and takes consistent communication, synergy, and adaptability to be able to play it well.

Narcarsis.5739:

Now, please try to tell me why S/P venom share is not viable. It is THE team fight spec and has by far one of the strongest team fight utilities in the game. While it may not do as much damage is has far more utility and takes more coordination to make effective. If you can’t manage to talk to your team then yes, it’s not going to do very much. It’s not a solo build and takes consistent communication, synergy, and adaptability to be able to play it well.

Because you hit like a wet noodle, because pistol whip is countered ridicolously by armor, protection, retaliation and stability, because you’re basically building for venoms while using just the only really useful one and worthy to be shared in this burst meta, or rather the devourer one, while an ele /longbow warrior could do that as easily, while having more damage, more sustain, and a faster CD to reapply them ( pin down = 3 secs immobilize every 25 secs, instead of devourer every 36 ; magnetic gras every 12 secs instead of devourer every 36 secs, especially after last patch).

I agree for a total overhaul of the thief class, because currently there’s nothing this class can do in high end PvP aside burst, and you know it perfectly, otherwise you would be running your venom share build instead of D/P burst.

Mrbig.8019:

Because you hit like a wet noodle, because pistol whip is countered ridicolously by armor, protection, retaliation and stability, because you’re basically building for venoms while using just the only really useful one and worthy to be shared in this burst meta, or rather the devourer one, while an ele /longbow warrior could do that as easily, while having more damage, more sustain, and a faster CD to reapply them ( pin down = 3 secs immobilize every 25 secs, instead of devourer every 36 ; magnetic gras every 12 secs instead of devourer every 36 secs, especially after last patch).

I agree for a total overhaul of the thief class, because currently there’s nothing this class can do in high end PvP aside burst, and you know it perfectly, otherwise you would be running your venom share build instead of D/P burst.

I run D/P because my role is Roamer/Damage. You’re confusing Venom Share with a damage build. It’s a support spec, stop trying to do damage and start using your unlimited immobilizes and large amount of stuns to do your actual job: Controlling their damage so that yours can land their burst.

How you think another class has more CC astounds me. Sword 2 has no cooldown, is a teleport with an immobilize, and a stun break with a condi remove. Again, stop trying to lock people up and do damage with pistol whip when you’re speccing for a support role. If you have a 5v5 you give your team 25s of immobilize and 10 seconds of stun with venoms alone.

Both D/P burst and S/P venom share is viable. You have to have the right comp for both. If you’re running around with venom share and no DPS then yes, it’s useless. Also, the thief class does not need an “overhaul”. Condition thief needs a rework, yes. Pistol whip could use a small change, yes. But the rest of the class is fine. If you can’t play it well then go to something else instead of crying for a complete change. The game will not cater to you.

Not to be a jerk or anything, but isn’t the d/p build you posted pretty much the standard for every roaming build? I’m running an almost identical setup with s/p except for the elite. >.>

How often do you actually go for the backstab burst with D/P? Does the extra init usage ever cause any issues? Is it worth going for at all versus knocking your target around a bit with the bow and then mugging/SSing in for a HS spam?

Gunna mess with it a bit again and see if I can get it to work. Would be great to go back to backstab without letting go of my pistol addiction.

d/p allows you to go for backstab every few seconds if you have initiative.

Whelp, doing pretty good with it for the past couple of hours in hotjoins. Guess I’ll have to try it in a tourney later.

Maybe I just sucked last time I was playing d/p.

Narcarsis.5739:

How you think another class has more CC astounds me. Sword 2 has no cooldown, is a teleport with an immobilize, and a stun break with a condi remove. Again, stop trying to lock people up and do damage with pistol whip when you’re speccing for a support role. If you have a 5v5 you give your team 25s of immobilize and 10 seconds of stun with venoms alone.

Both D/P burst and S/P venom share is viable. You have to have the right comp for both. If you’re running around with venom share and no DPS then yes, it’s useless. Also, the thief class does not need an “overhaul”. Condition thief needs a rework, yes. Pistol whip could use a small change, yes. But the rest of the class is fine. If you can’t play it well then go to something else instead of crying for a complete change. The game will not cater to you.

It’s not about damage only, it’s about trade offs.

For istance, a D/D aura share ele has tons of CC by himself ( immobilizes, chills and stuns) while giving auras to all your party, with correlated boons, without giving up damage ( they just need to slot few arcane abilities instead of cantrips, and it’s a pretty common set up, especially in NA where you play).

Great CCs, good AoE damage, fury/swifteness + auras for the whole party with almost 100 % uptime.

If you think a venom share is better, then explain me why teams prefer to stack eles instead of bringing a venom share thief in their comps.

I’m not trying to do damage with that build, the point is that build is not even that great at support as you think.

In fact, you’re running a different build, because burst thieves are superior in every way, taking THE MAX the thief class is capable of ( best trait combinations, best utilities, maximized capabilities) and bringing it to the table: no other class can do that job better than the thief.

I play a mean cond thief, but since your offering advice, what would be your ideal Condition thief (excluding venoms, as I don’t really consider their use with a cond build).

BTW, the build links don’t work :/ Says bad link when I tried opening them. Maybe I’m not opening correctly but that just sounds silly.

dimentox.6019:

Thank you so much.. Its nice to see some of the top dogs willing to mentor..
and yes its hard to find a good thief. They are a myth :P

Stop it!!!!!

Mrbig.8019:

It’s not about damage only, it’s about trade offs.

For istance, a D/D aura share ele has tons of CC by himself ( immobilizes, chills and stuns) while giving auras to all your party, with correlated boons, without giving up damage ( they just need to slot few arcane abilities instead of cantrips, and it’s a pretty common set up, especially in NA where you play).

Great CCs, good AoE damage, fury/swifteness + auras for the whole party with almost 100 % uptime.

If you think a venom share is better, then explain me why teams prefer to stack eles instead of bringing a venom share thief in their comps.

I’m not trying to do damage with that build, the point is that build is not even that great at support as you think.

In fact, you’re running a different build, because burst thieves are superior in every way, taking THE MAX the thief class is capable of ( best trait combinations, best utilities, maximized capabilities) and bringing it to the table: no other class can do that job better than the thief.

I run D/P burst because I enjoy that playstyle. I’ve played it since beta (albeit not in the same way). Burst thief is good at bursting, yes everyone knows this and no one said otherwise. But claiming that “It is superior in every way” is a complete falsity. Yes, Ele’s are the God class and everyone knows this — it’s a stale topic and a large majority of the community (including a significant number of top Eles) know the class needs to be toned down. However this is continually your only example of a spec that provides more team fight potential than venom share. Despite your continual rebuttal venom share is a viable and strong build. Just because you may refuse to use it and think that it isn’t viable does not make it so.

NinjaEd.3946:

BTW, the build links don’t work :/ Says bad link when I tried opening them. Maybe I’m not opening correctly but that just sounds silly.

Copy and paste the link into your URL instead of clicking them.

Geewoody.2017:

Not to be a jerk or anything, but isn’t the d/p build you posted pretty much the standard for every roaming build? I’m running an almost identical setup with s/p except for the elite. >.>

How often do you actually go for the backstab burst with D/P? Does the extra init usage ever cause any issues? Is it worth going for at all versus knocking your target around a bit with the bow and then mugging/SSing in for a HS spam?

Yes, the trait line is the same as a standard burst spec. The weapons haven’t been until recently (not to be conceited but I am responsible for that). Go for burst when you know you will down the target. Bursting someone and not having them down is a waste, and you will be out of position without accomplishing anything. Shortbow is amazing, use it a lot.

Still says bad link, lol. Idk, maybe IE is just the new age garbage that windows held onto.

Lorienda.1349:

i am happy that some ppl trying to help new players and so on but none of the builds u made is viable in the current meta except d/p
if u want to help new players make a d/d,extended d/p guide
u guys playing differnet meta but it doesnt matter because d/p,d/d is superior in any possible way atm
d/d condi and pistolwhip are pub specs atm nothing more
good job anyway.

Pistolwhip pub spec? haha

Too bad you cant /spit on thieves and mesmers after you kill them like in WoW.They should put that in shop.

Khyras.8021:

Too bad you cant /spit on thieves and mesmers after you kill them like in WoW.They should put that in shop.

You can buy joke finishers for stomps. LIke the cow, and other novelty finishers.

Hey Caed,

It’s Kuro.

Just want to stop by and say I respect you for posting up the quick guides and stuff to help others. Some of these guys in game are so scared of posting up guides because they think it’s giving away their secret to being good – totally stupid way of thinking. These are good builds for beginners to start with for sure, and modify for their liking. I also run a similar d/p build and it’s definitely the most solid build right now. S/P is really good as well, but doesn’t put out enough dps for it to be useful in comps that need straight dps. If it was a balanced comp where dps isn’t as important, then S/P is really fun/effective to play. #2 is priceless when combined with pistol whip which makes us invul. I play S/P for fun and it def has more survivability than d/p…but that’s the tradeoff I guess. Chasing people also sucks with S/P which is kitten important for eles and other people are just barely escaping…so d/p is more viable as a killing machine for when you need that final HS to kill.

Contrary to popular belief, it’s definitely not easy to play a thief – especially in high tier paids and for us glassy roamers…it’s so much about awareness, timing, positioning, and reaction…which is why I love it. If you don’t have those down, your thief will die over and over. I’ve tried out every class and they all seem so static compared to thieves. It’s so much more dynamic. I feel when thieves are played right, they can be so kitten scary for 1v1s and team fights.

There aren’t many good thieves nowadays, and you’re def one of them. So, props for that.

Hey Caed, been watching your stream and your video by manvil rock and I just have some questions hopefully you can answer so I can get better

1) When initiating fights, do you normally want to do your “combo” or start off in stealth first?

2) If you initiate a fight in stealth, do you precast backstab and then steal?

3) why fire Sigil over air?

4) when do you start to realize “I’m gonna lose this” and Gtfo?

5) when your doing team fights, what prompts you to stay in the back with short bow or burst down a target?

6) when backstabbing do you just cast it or should you always be behind?beside it?

7) If I’m starting thief, should I learn D/D first or go straight to D/P?

Thanks man and I hope you find a team soon

DXIEdge.2789:

Hey Caed, been watching your stream and your video by manvil rock and I just have some questions hopefully you can answer so I can get better

1) When initiating fights, do you normally want to do your “combo” or start off in stealth first?

2) If you initiate a fight in stealth, do you precast backstab and then steal?

3) why fire Sigil over air?

4) when do you start to realize “I’m gonna lose this” and Gtfo?

5) when your doing team fights, what prompts you to stay in the back with short bow or burst down a target?

6) when backstabbing do you just cast it or should you always be behind?beside it?

7) If I’m starting thief, should I learn D/D first or go straight to D/P?

1. It depends on the targets there, my position, theirs, and how long the fight has been going on before I get there. If a target is squishy and out of position, or has no cool downs, then I can burst them with a full combo. However if they have cool downs then a stealth steal/stab is more efficient. Tankier classes generally require a full combo.

2. If I am bursting and in stealth I steal/stab (if they have no defensive boons such as aegis or protection).

3. Fire is 200 damage below air but is an AoE. It has a potential damage of 4.9k total versus 2k total.

4. If you miss your burst in a 1v1 on an even fight, leave. If you’re outnumbered, leave (unless you are in a 1v2 and can kill one of them in ~5 seconds, however you have to outplay them completely). If you have no cooldowns it is generally a better idea to leave. There are always exemptions to this, where it can be a better idea to stay alive and hold a point as long as possible rather than running away – something you’d have to judge for yourself.

5. This goes back to my answer to your first question. It depends on positioning, team hp (on both sides), cooldowns, etc. You have to gauge what’s more beneficial at the time.

6. Always behind/beside. If you’re not getting the damage bonus from backstab then surprise shot could be a better alternative for sustained damage.

7. Personally I think D/D is boring and dagger offhand is fairly useless compared to pistol. However it is easier to play and more forgiving to mistakes. The most important thing is to get down positioning and timing, so whichever weapon set that feels more comfortable at first should be the one you use. Once you get the hang of positioning and timing then D/P is a stronger weapon set (if you didn’t already start with it).

Hope that answers your questions sufficiently. If not, or if you have any other questions feel free to ask.

Narcarsis.5739:

I play D/P, and exclusively D/P. But there are players who’s playstyle is not D/P or D/D backstab. While condition thief is not viable in the meta (or just in the game type alone) it is still an incredibly strong build and in no means needs a buff. A rework would make far more sense, allow the thief to do more than 1 source of conditions through the weapon set. However it is a good build to learn mechanics on as well as when to do certain things BECAUSE it is forgiving. Players can make mistakes, see them, but not be completely punished for them. Do I think it’s viable for high level play? No. Do I think it will help people learn the game? Yes.

u know d/d has 2 conditions? with cripple 3 with vulnerability 4…

Narcarsis.5739:

DXIEdge.2789:

Hey Caed, been watching your stream and your video by manvil rock and I just have some questions hopefully you can answer so I can get better

1) When initiating fights, do you normally want to do your “combo” or start off in stealth first?

2) If you initiate a fight in stealth, do you precast backstab and then steal?

3) why fire Sigil over air?

4) when do you start to realize “I’m gonna lose this” and Gtfo?

5) when your doing team fights, what prompts you to stay in the back with short bow or burst down a target?

6) when backstabbing do you just cast it or should you always be behind?beside it?

7) If I’m starting thief, should I learn D/D first or go straight to D/P?

1. It depends on the targets there, my position, theirs, and how long the fight has been going on before I get there. If a target is squishy and out of position, or has no cool downs, then I can burst them with a full combo. However if they have cool downs then a stealth steal/stab is more efficient. Tankier classes generally require a full combo….

the combo is how?

If I remember correctly Caed told me as follows:

Pop signet, Venom.
Black Powder
Heartseeker, and while in the air steal. Then backstab.

The reason you must be in air is you gain stealth when you hit/touch the ground. So steal damage, then Heartseeker damage, then stealth, then backstab

bs build link is broken. been watching ur stream. u put out so much damage so quick. i play a build similar to cruuk with s/p and p/p. been working good so far as a far node assault. whats ur opinion of pistol whipp?

bloodbrother.4570:

bs build link is broken. been watching ur stream. u put out so much damage so quick. i play a build similar to cruuk with s/p and p/p. been working good so far as a far node assault. whats ur opinion of pistol whipp?

The links work, you just have to paste them in the URL instead of clicking on them.

Cruuk’s build, in my opinion, is useless to a team unless the other team plays poorly. It’s a selfish build in the fact that it’s only good 1v1. Outside of that it doesn’t do anything. If you sit someone who can kill him 1v1 (a ranger) on home node then you force him to go mid. If he goes mid he does nothing, since he can’t burst anyone and has no real effect on a teamfight. [Please note I don’t think Cruuk himself is a bad player, I just don’t think the build does anything if played against properly. However if you don’t react to it correctly then you will be outnumbered in mid and lose the fight/game.]

For a pistol whip burst spec I would say that retaliation will kill you before you kill anything else. That and I think PW is a clunky ability, and I personally don’t like it. (Sword 2 is the bee’s knees though)

Venom share is strong with S/P because the weapon set maximizes utility (Sword 2, Pistol 4,5 and even stun on Pistol Whip).

really nice builds

but like cruuk I also play a daze lock style build and I do well in team fights
but then again I don’t roam on my own like I see cruuk usually do
I try and find group fights.

but I have to disagree with it being a selfish build
I find it very supportive to other team mates trying to burn down a target
locking a enemy out of there character seems really effective and supportive to me so I kinda view it as a support dps build.

my take on daze lock thief
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cF3R3;0Rwk0-S5FOkd0;9;6T9T;434A5;024BTNV8U;1jwmAjwmA1Ff

daze lock with a bit more damage
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cF3RR;0Rwk0-I5FOkd0;9;5TT-9;109B34A;14;0Ywl0U;1Ewk2Ewk25BL
I switch out the 8th skill for whatever enemy composition I’m fighting against so I use quickness or trip wire etc… sometimes.

hate it, love it, judge it I don’t mind I like to play these builds and the reason why is because Anet needs to make other thief builds more viable because I hate being pigeon holed into glass cannon builds to feel effective there never feels like any variety with the thief class.

ty for info. for the record your probly one of the best burst thiefs I watched on the twitch. juss gatta watch out for the engie 100 nades. if I don’t burst em down they burst me down …ha

Kline.9561:

really nice builds

but like cruuk I also play a daze lock style build and I do well in team fights
but then again I don’t roam on my own like I see cruuk usually do
I try and find group fights.

but I have to disagree with it being a selfish build
I find it very supportive to other team mates trying to burn down a target
locking a enemy out of there character seems really effective and supportive to me so I kinda view it as a support dps build.

my take on daze lock thief
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cF3R3;0Rwk0-S5FOkd0;9;6T9T;434A5;024BTNV8U;1jwmAjwmA1Ff

daze lock with a bit more damage
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-cF3RR;0Rwk0-I5FOkd0;9;5TT-9;109B34A;14;0Ywl0U;1Ewk2Ewk25BL
I switch out the 8th skill for whatever enemy composition I’m fighting against so I use quickness or trip wire etc… sometimes.

hate it, love it, judge it I don’t mind I like to play these builds and the reason why is because Anet needs to make other thief builds more viable because I hate being pigeon holed into glass cannon builds to feel effective there never feels like any variety with the thief class.

To each their own, I may try them sometime just to mess around – they look like fun ^^

bloodbrother.4570:

ty for info. for the record your probly one of the best burst thiefs I watched on the twitch. juss gatta watch out for the engie 100 nades. if I don’t burst em down they burst me down …ha

Disabling Shot will become your new BFF =]

Narcarsis.5739:

Mrbig.8019:

Because you hit like a wet noodle, because pistol whip is countered ridicolously by armor, protection, retaliation and stability, because you’re basically building for venoms while using just the only really useful one and worthy to be shared in this burst meta, or rather the devourer one, while an ele /longbow warrior could do that as easily, while having more damage, more sustain, and a faster CD to reapply them ( pin down = 3 secs immobilize every 25 secs, instead of devourer every 36 ; magnetic gras every 12 secs instead of devourer every 36 secs, especially after last patch).

I agree for a total overhaul of the thief class, because currently there’s nothing this class can do in high end PvP aside burst, and you know it perfectly, otherwise you would be running your venom share build instead of D/P burst.

I run D/P because my role is Roamer/Damage. You’re confusing Venom Share with a damage build. It’s a support spec, stop trying to do damage and start using your unlimited immobilizes and large amount of stuns to do your actual job: Controlling their damage so that yours can land their burst.

How you think another class has more CC astounds me. Sword 2 has no cooldown, is a teleport with an immobilize, and a stun break with a condi remove. Again, stop trying to lock people up and do damage with pistol whip when you’re speccing for a support role. If you have a 5v5 you give your team 25s of immobilize and 10 seconds of stun with venoms alone.

Both D/P burst and S/P venom share is viable. You have to have the right comp for both. If you’re running around with venom share and no DPS then yes, it’s useless. Also, the thief class does not need an “overhaul”. Condition thief needs a rework, yes. Pistol whip could use a small change, yes. But the rest of the class is fine. If you can’t play it well then go to something else instead of crying for a complete change. The game will not cater to you.

I could be wrong but immoblize does not stack in duration.

Sifu.6527:

Narcarsis.5739:

Mrbig.8019:

Because you hit like a wet noodle, because pistol whip is countered ridicolously by armor, protection, retaliation and stability, because you’re basically building for venoms while using just the only really useful one and worthy to be shared in this burst meta, or rather the devourer one, while an ele /longbow warrior could do that as easily, while having more damage, more sustain, and a faster CD to reapply them ( pin down = 3 secs immobilize every 25 secs, instead of devourer every 36 ; magnetic gras every 12 secs instead of devourer every 36 secs, especially after last patch).

I agree for a total overhaul of the thief class, because currently there’s nothing this class can do in high end PvP aside burst, and you know it perfectly, otherwise you would be running your venom share build instead of D/P burst.

I run D/P because my role is Roamer/Damage. You’re confusing Venom Share with a damage build. It’s a support spec, stop trying to do damage and start using your unlimited immobilizes and large amount of stuns to do your actual job: Controlling their damage so that yours can land their burst.

How you think another class has more CC astounds me. Sword 2 has no cooldown, is a teleport with an immobilize, and a stun break with a condi remove. Again, stop trying to lock people up and do damage with pistol whip when you’re speccing for a support role. If you have a 5v5 you give your team 25s of immobilize and 10 seconds of stun with venoms alone.

Both D/P burst and S/P venom share is viable. You have to have the right comp for both. If you’re running around with venom share and no DPS then yes, it’s useless. Also, the thief class does not need an “overhaul”. Condition thief needs a rework, yes. Pistol whip could use a small change, yes. But the rest of the class is fine. If you can’t play it well then go to something else instead of crying for a complete change. The game will not cater to you.

I could be wrong but immoblize does not stack in duration.

Immobilize stacks in duration, however stuns and dazes do not. Immobilize is a condition – the latter 2 are not.

Immobilize claims it stacks in duration in the tool tip, but it simply overwrites the previous Immobilize regardless of what the duration was previously.

So your burst combo is.

Signet + Venom → Black Powder + Heartseek → mid air steal → into backstab?

also since you play a roamer, how do you feel about Signet of Shadows. Just started fulfilling the roamer roll for my group and that extra speed feels so nice for getting around the map. But cant tell yet if that damage loss is too extreme to justify it.

Also can anyone answer, I’ve been watching your videos. Can you hit backstab from a distance and “steal step” to target and still get the backstab trigger?

@Narcarsis.5739

With the D/P Backstab build, how are you consistently getting into position without any sort of speed boost (Fleet shadow, SoS)? (As a side-note – the spec I run should also have an additional second of stealth thanks to MwS, but according to testing by another player on the boards, MwS is currently bugged and does not affect stealth gained by BP→HS)

I’m currently running D/P (25/15/30/0/0) with Devourers,SoS,Shadowstep and Basilisk. Good players tend to keep moving and dodging whenever I enter stealth; even with SoS, there are times where I have to decide quickly if I want to just let stealth drop or try for a front stab. Basically, what are you doing against players who know what to expect when you enter stealth?

Moisttowlete.8074:

Also can anyone answer, I’ve been watching your videos. Can you hit backstab from a distance and “steal step” to target and still get the backstab trigger?

Yep.

Holy kitten necro bump. Does Caed even play anymore? After the Feb Patch?

I played against caed like sunday I think, I’m pretty sure he plays on and off.

evilapprentice.6379:

@Narcarsis.5739

With the D/P Backstab build, how are you consistently getting into position without any sort of speed boost (Fleet shadow, SoS)? (As a side-note – the spec I run should also have an additional second of stealth thanks to MwS, but according to testing by another player on the boards, MwS is currently bugged and does not affect stealth gained by BP->HS)

I’m currently running D/P (25/15/30/0/0) with Devourers,SoS,Shadowstep and Basilisk. Good players tend to keep moving and dodging whenever I enter stealth; even with SoS, there are times where I have to decide quickly if I want to just let stealth drop or try for a front stab. Basically, what are you doing against players who know what to expect when you enter stealth?

You can try running into the other character’s model and do a backstab, it counts for the sake of determining front and back damage. Or hit them in the temples, same as backstab.

Noctis Assassin.4035:

evilapprentice.6379:

@Narcarsis.5739

With the D/P Backstab build, how are you consistently getting into position without any sort of speed boost (Fleet shadow, SoS)? (As a side-note – the spec I run should also have an additional second of stealth thanks to MwS, but according to testing by another player on the boards, MwS is currently bugged and does not affect stealth gained by BP->HS)

I’m currently running D/P (25/15/30/0/0) with Devourers,SoS,Shadowstep and Basilisk. Good players tend to keep moving and dodging whenever I enter stealth; even with SoS, there are times where I have to decide quickly if I want to just let stealth drop or try for a front stab. Basically, what are you doing against players who know what to expect when you enter stealth?

You can try running into the other character’s model and do a backstab, it counts for the sake of determining front and back damage. Or hit them in the temples, same as backstab.

There’s a lot of situations where that just gets you smacked around by AA – if the player is quick, they’ll hit you with some form of CC after confirming that you’re running directly toward them.

I’m still having trouble following how he positions in his spec with 3s of stealth and no speed boosts.

evilapprentice.6379:

@Narcarsis.5739

With the D/P Backstab build, how are you consistently getting into position without any sort of speed boost (Fleet shadow, SoS)? (As a side-note – the spec I run should also have an additional second of stealth thanks to MwS, but according to testing by another player on the boards, MwS is currently bugged and does not affect stealth gained by BP->HS)

I’m currently running D/P (25/15/30/0/0) with Devourers,SoS,Shadowstep and Basilisk. Good players tend to keep moving and dodging whenever I enter stealth; even with SoS, there are times where I have to decide quickly if I want to just let stealth drop or try for a front stab. Basically, what are you doing against players who know what to expect when you enter stealth?

For the backstab, patience and deception are your friends. Be patient with your burst and pressure them to use their defensive CDs (stun breaks, dodge rolls, etc). Once they’re gone burst them.

Positioning is something you’ll learn as time goes on. Think more vertically than horizontally. Get high ground and be patient, only go in for a kill when you can secure it.

P.S. I will not quit this game. And I’m always willing to answer questions – Through this post preferably.