Guild Wars 2

So there is still a slight camera lag in this game. When you try to rotate your character using your mouse, even if you have the mouse settings to the highest and camera rotation speed to the highest, there is still in the initial inertia. Why is this still in the game?

I know in September they reduced the camera rotation inertia because as many player complaints, but why is there any still left? Even this little bit of camera inertia hinders player reaction especially if you’re playing a melee character who is trying to constantly face an opponent who is trying to circle strafe you or who is dodging around.

If you look at all the first-person shooters, and my God even World of Warcraft, there is absolutely zero mouse turning lag (inertia), because that hinders player response time. So why does Guild wars two still have this in the game?

This issue becomes more apparents if you’re playing on a bigger sized monitor.

what if it is not lag but fps drop?

idk, just suggesting stuff

Evan Lesh.3295:

… if we come to the ultimate conclusion that we have to give an option for it, we will.

Why does it sound like you would rather not give the players options to customize the games interface/appearance to their liking?

What about a simple toggle? On/Off for the current level of inertia? Not trivial I know, but less consuming than making a slider and figuring levels, I’d think.

Quite frankly that additional inertia makes already buggy aiming skills like Fire Grab, Drake’s Breath, Burning Speed and the plethora of other “aimed” Elementalist skills extremely difficult to use in situations of higher latency (200ms+ which is the best I can achieve).

First time i hear good responsivenes of your avatar can make people sick.
Also i have noticed that if you turn auto attack off you can only turn your character by holding right mouse button if you press skill buttons like auto attack etc.Just make it so that you can turn your character when you hold right mouse button at all times regardless if you are in combat or not and add turning character animation so that he dont turn like he is impaled on a stick.

of all the threads on pvp forum they respond to the one mouse turning thread, wow.

Sprawl.3891:

of all the threads on pvp forum they respond to the one mouse turning thread, wow.

Actually, it’s really nice to see willingness to discuss core mechanics/functionality like this. Furthermore, he was completely transparent about the process behind evaluating such a change.

uwo.8197:

Sprawl.3891:

of all the threads on pvp forum they respond to the one mouse turning thread, wow.

Actually, it’s really nice to see willingness to discuss core mechanics/functionality like this. Furthermore, he was completely transparent about the process behind evaluating such a change.

thats great but its the equivalent of a mechanic talking to you about your wiper blades when your engine is on fire.

Sprawl, many threads created lately have already been talked about many other times. It sucks that when ANET don’t reply to these repeated threads, everyone complains that ANET doesn’t communicate with the community.

They’ve done a pretty darn good job letting us know what they are planning on doing.

So, back to the option. If enough players would like this in the game, it might get implemented?

So… You have my vote:

Yes please

Sprawl.3891:

thats great but its the equivalent of a mechanic talking to you about your wiper blades when your engine is on fire.

That did get a chuckle out of me, i must admit. Hopefully this will prove to be hyperbole, but I guess I share your concern.

On topic, if it were possible to implement easily, it would improve my gameplay for sure.

Oh yeah I definitely appreciate the response and the transparency.

As regard to the camera inertia. I think it’s one of those things that you must becareful when saying 90% of the players are okay with it and we’re not going to make it a priority. Because the 10% of players that aren’t okay with it are really really affected by it. So I think they definitely should be given the option. And by these 10% of players I mean the S PVP players, and especially the top-tier S PVP players who really demand a responsive game that can do justice to their reaction/reflex skills..

For example, during the time of this game’s release I remember a player along with several others passionately discussing this camera lag issue in their own thread. But a majority of responses had no clue what the OP was talking about and this really frustrated the OP.

In the end I remember reading that the OP simply said okay forget it “this is like talking to a brick wall i’m out of here.” I really empathized with that guy, because I knew exactly what he is talking about and it really was a huge issue for me.

I am simply bring the camera issue up again because in my mind I believe that player might not even be around anymore or he simply gave up because he thought no one cared about what he wanted. I know the inertia has already been tweaked, but I think there is definitely a group players who would really appreciate having at least the option to have absolutely or at least practically zero camera inertia. Me included.

Could be A checkbox for “Camera smoothing” On/Off.

i think soon we should have a PVP-dedicated menu options page for PVP features. eventually, all these things get put into the game i hope. thx

Evan Lesh.3295:

Klinch.2964:

Sprawl, many threads created lately have already been talked about many other times. It sucks that when ANET don’t reply to these repeated threads, everyone complains that ANET doesn’t communicate with the community.

This may be true. I only have enough time to stay attached to one forum, so this is the obvious choice since I’m on the sPvP team. This means two things: First, I see the repeat threads and don’t have time to post in them; hoping that the community will reference the older posts. Second, I will jump on opportunities to spread my knowledge that I wouldn’t be able to otherwise, like in this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Spvp-destiny-A-message-for-Jonathan-Sharp/first#post1132982

This is no repeat thread, and it’s an important thread and point. If you could make some time to read (and more or less aknowledge) the concerns you’ll do something huge for the PVP community.

Thanks for your clear and transparent response on this. It’s great to see you guys talk to us directly in the forum, and we hope you take the time to do more of that.

I do still think that zero inertia is an option worth exploring, not as a slider but perhaps as a tickable toggle option – so you would only have to program in 2 states, the current in-game camera state, and the zero inertia state.

I think that would satisfy everyone if it is doable.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Oni.5429:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Klinch.2964:

Sprawl, many threads created lately have already been talked about many other times. It sucks that when ANET don’t reply to these repeated threads, everyone complains that ANET doesn’t communicate with the community.

This may be true. I only have enough time to stay attached to one forum, so this is the obvious choice since I’m on the sPvP team. This means two things: First, I see the repeat threads and don’t have time to post in them; hoping that the community will reference the older posts. Second, I will jump on opportunities to spread my knowledge that I wouldn’t be able to otherwise, like in this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Spvp-destiny-A-message-for-Jonathan-Sharp/first#post1132982

This is no repeat thread, and it’s an important thread and point. If you could make some time to read (and more or less aknowledge) the concerns you’ll do something huge for the PVP community.

Things of this magnitude (touches many many design points of sPvP) are not something I like to answer as a programmer. I wouldn’t do the thread justice as I haven’t spent nearly as much time thinking about those issues as the designers. This thread is brand new, so please give time for people to come back from break who can answer it better than me.

Okay, understood! Thanks a lot for responding.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Whether is a slider, dropdown, toggle, they’re all about the same amount of additional dev time, but sometimes problems like this have a history. Why didn’t we do this before? Has anyone ever tried zero inertia? Maybe it actually doesn’t work well in GW2. While it’s entirely in my power to take some extra time some evening and implement the feature, it’s also possible that there were some darn good reasons for not doing it before that I don’t know about. That’s why it’s so important to go through the proper channels, get it signed off on, etc. So the process is also what takes up resources we would rather be spending on more important things.

OK gotcha on this, thanks for being clear about the internal processes. For all us working folk, this makes a lot of sense.

Well if you do have time one evening, could always give it a go and see if someone signs off on the finished product after seeing it in action xD

Thank you Evan for keeping us informed in such a well thought out professional manner. I honestly cant even pretend to stay so nice even though my IGN is Happinessfactory haha… Even though there are some things I wish had gone differently, I’m glad that there are people like you around to keep me informed.

On a somewhat related note, I would really love an option to turn off right click targeting. I move my camera around a lot in battle, and I cannot tell you how many times I lose my target because I was moving my camera and right clicked something else. This is especially frustrating with skills like Ride the Lightning, causing me to go off cliffs or into other mobs I wasn’t fighting.

While this isn’t an issue that has affected me much, I must say I am very thankful for the level of response and transparency given! Hopefully this is a sign of things to come in 2013 as a response to the community’s comments about lack of communication in 2012

Great response!

fact is there are thousand of repetitive thread because in none we had a clear answer from anet. only general statement..like politicians XD

Evan Lesh.3295:

Oni.5429:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Klinch.2964:

Sprawl, many threads created lately have already been talked about many other times. It sucks that when ANET don’t reply to these repeated threads, everyone complains that ANET doesn’t communicate with the community.

This may be true. I only have enough time to stay attached to one forum, so this is the obvious choice since I’m on the sPvP team. This means two things: First, I see the repeat threads and don’t have time to post in them; hoping that the community will reference the older posts. Second, I will jump on opportunities to spread my knowledge that I wouldn’t be able to otherwise, like in this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Spvp-destiny-A-message-for-Jonathan-Sharp/first#post1132982

This is no repeat thread, and it’s an important thread and point. If you could make some time to read (and more or less aknowledge) the concerns you’ll do something huge for the PVP community.

Things of this magnitude (touches many many design points of sPvP) are not something I like to answer as a programmer. I wouldn’t do the thread justice as I haven’t spent nearly as much time thinking about those issues as the designers. This thread is brand new, so please give time for people to come back from break who can answer it better than me.

That’s great and all but you see the message it sends when you respond to stuff about camera which you rarely, if ever, see posts about while ignoring bigger features. And you don’t need to respond to game-wide-issue posts but what about things like this:

-info about the ranking system that is supposedly coming in a month. How will it work? What kind of system? You are telling us you can’t provide ANY details on something that is only a month away? I

-info on private servers? Again, only a month away yet we have ZERO info. Cost to rent? Customization options? Anything?

and the list goes on

You also mention your list of 50 things you’d like to do with camera toggle being one, well what are the other 49? You realize you provide very poor detailed communication on what you are working on.

Part of the issue is lack of public test server. There are numerous game breaking bugs (block bug, naked mesmer clones, shatter bug, etc.) that would have easily been caught in a public test server, yet you don’t have one. Public test servers are also great for testing IDEAS prior to releasing. Instead of just dropping custom servers and ranking system on us in live you could release in a test server and tweak from there based on feedback. Go take a look at RIFT for proper public testing. They often make many balance tweaks to game modes, balance, etc. put them on the test server and post in the pvp forums for people to specifically go test the changes, then tweak, then release live. I don’t understand why you don’t do that.

Sprawl.3891:

of all the threads on pvp forum they respond to the one mouse turning thread, wow.

HAHAHA, THIS A MILLION TIMES FOREVER

I was thinking the exact same thing. Nothing in the constant Mesmer/Thief problems, but camera turning, beggers belief!

Evan Lesh.3295:

Option 1 is to pick and test some new values. Satisfies 98% of the player base, with zero dev-time, goes out as soon as we’re comfortable with the values.
Option 2 is to make a slider/drop down, pick acceptable ranges (not trivial), localize text, and update the UI. Requires new tech, and waiting for text to get localized. This satisfies 100% of the player base at the cost of time and slowly complicating the game.

I’ve been in the neglected 2% of option 1 before. Not for this issue but others, a couple of times in this game and a few times in some others.

You might think ‘neglected’ is too strong a word for it, and I know you’re a lot less willing to take option 1 if it makes the game unplayable for that 2%… but don’t underestimate how snubbed that 2% are going to feel, even if it’s a little thing.

Please try to make sure that whenever you take an option 1 that that minority knows the decision isn’t taken lightly. It’s just words, but you guys spend a lot of effort earning good will from players and so the words will count.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

That’s great and all but you see the message it sends when you respond to stuff about camera which you rarely, if ever, see posts about while ignoring bigger features. And you don’t need to respond to game-wide-issue posts but what about things like this:…

I know it seems like unfair treatment, but the truth is that not everyone has the luxury to be on the forums as much as others. Things like custom arenas and matchmaking really deserve blog posts.

you maybe are right , but as you can see, we can’t wait for a blog every 3 months with a list of wishes anet would like to put in the game. we need something like weekly blog

Evan Lesh.3295:

Sprawl.3891:

That’s great and all but you see the message it sends when you respond to stuff about camera which you rarely, if ever, see posts about while ignoring bigger features. And you don’t need to respond to game-wide-issue posts but what about things like this:…

I know it seems like unfair treatment, but the truth is that not everyone has the luxury to be on the forums as much as others. Things like custom arenas and matchmaking really deserve blog posts.

yes we deserve a blog post, so where is it? These features are due out in a month and we have zero details on them. Last time you mentioned a blog post it took a month to go thorough editing and review. So unless you have a blog post already complete i guess we are SOL until the features are released live and we figure it out on our own? We have not received any real information trailing all the way back to the “iceberg” blog which was basically just an overly homogenized “outline” of features that should have been in the game at launch.

As shukran posted some type of weekly content blog would be great. I just don’t see how you dont have any details on features due out in a month.

“When its ready”

Also this post was about camera rotation, not about demanding weekly updates. I don’t have to be a mod to tell you its kinda rude.

I just stumbled across this while reading the dev forum. Whatever you do, please make it optional. I don’t do PvP and I never had any problems with this and making a hard change may negatively affect a majority of players while a minority profits from it, as you already said. Us PvE players already suffered a lot from PvP changes that heavily affected our playstyle, sadly. I don’t say don’t add an option, I don’t want to see anybody suffering even if it’s a minority of course, but it’s good to see there’s actually put some thought into such a decision.

Iruwen.3164:

I just stumbled across this while reading the dev forum. Whatever you do, please make it optional. I don’t do PvP and I never had any problems with this and making a hard change may negatively affect a majority of players while a minority profits from it, as you already said. Us PvE players already suffered a lot from PvP changes that heavily affected our playstyle, sadly. I don’t say don’t add an option, I don’t want to see anybody suffering even if it’s a minority of course, but it’s good to see there’s actually put some thought into such a decision.

I’m curious…what have you suffered from?

Class balancing changes that also went into PvE instead of being limited to PvP only. WvW being treated as PvE makes those decisions a little rough I guess. Imo PvP should finally be treated completely separate in this regard. But that’s not what this thread is actually about, and I didn’t mean to criticize PvP in general of course, maybe I’ll join that minority myself at some point. I already learned that you have to be very careful how you express something, some people are instantly raging if they feel criticized (not you of course). Just wanted to say: if you do something that could also have a negative impact,please make it optional. Basically just backing up Evan here.

Guys?

Has Anet improved the camera just now or am I drunk?
I just logged in and my camera felt quicker and more responsive.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

Guys?

Has Anet improved the camera just now or am I drunk?
I just logged in and my camera felt quicker and more responsive.

no, it has just finished the effects of alcohol drunk on New Year’s

What about implementing something like right-mouse panning turning your character without touching inertia? Would that be equally difficult or time consuming to test and implement?

The implementation of core sPvP/tPvP features should obviously have priority over interface customization. That being said, i’d like to take the opportunity to gain some insight in how this feature priority cost/payoff evaluation is performed.

Evan Lesh.3295:

…
We start getting player feedback that some aspect of the game can be improved (…) .

How / By what?

Evan Lesh.3295:

Get enough feedback that we determine a significant amount of the player base is affected negatively.

What percentage is significant?

Evan Lesh.3295:

…
Option 1 … Satisfies 98% of the player base
…

1. How can you say that without using some kind of survey?
2. I hope you guys are aware that being satisfied with and having learned to live with something isn’t the same thing.

I found a fix for it. I very crude one which my eyes still don’t like, but maybe it won’t bother yours as much.

Window your screen, stretch the horizontal view to screen width and the vertical view to slightly over half of your monitors height.

This will do two things (amongst cause other problems like animation no longer fitting the aspect ratio):
1 – Give you a much needed increased zoom range
2 – gets rid of mouse delay

God knows why this works, but it does. Sadly though, like I said, my eyes can’t seem to get used to that half view, but give it a go!

Evan Lesh.3295:

While there is still some inertia left, zero inertia doesn’t sit well with a lot of people and can even make them sick. Most issues involving core functionality like the camera or keybinds always have two sides (sometimes more). We try to please as wide of a player base as possible, but if we come to the ultimate conclusion that we have to give an option for it, we will.

not to revive an old thread, but this reasoning is absurd to me. WoW’s camera turning has zero inertia, and i’ve never once heard anyone complain about motion sickness.
and even if it does, maybe you just shouldn’t play games? Why do the majority have to suffer because the minority gets motion sickness?

^and just about every other game has zero lag….

The lag on the camera turn makes the game feel sluggish and is terrible, specially for pvp. Pair that with what I would call the WORSE GAMEPLAY ISSUE in this game: that the right mouse camera panning button also targets people, and you have a very frustrating mouse play for spvp in particular where you do not have time to tab target and need to react very quickly. I can’t recall how may times I’m trying to turn my camera and not only is it taking too long, but I also lose my target because my camera button was over another player and now my intended target is lost. Specially if u’re playing a melee class and on a team fight where everyone is clustered around you.

LEFT mouse button should select targets, RIGHT mouse button should rotate the camera ONLY, and be very responsive. Honestly, I don’t see why that’s not default, but at least make it an option. Can we please get a reply on whether the mouse buttons issue is in the works?

slugburp.5431:

Evan Lesh.3295:

While there is still some inertia left, zero inertia doesn’t sit well with a lot of people and can even make them sick. Most issues involving core functionality like the camera or keybinds always have two sides (sometimes more). We try to please as wide of a player base as possible, but if we come to the ultimate conclusion that we have to give an option for it, we will.

not to revive an old thread, but this reasoning is absurd to me. WoW’s camera turning has zero inertia, and i’ve never once heard anyone complain about motion sickness.
and even if it does, maybe you just shouldn’t play games? Why do the majority have to suffer because the minority gets motion sickness?

It’s very absurd.

And then the fact that dude goes on to say that maybe zero inertia doesn’t work in this game, makes his reply even more absurd.

I can’t even think of another game besides Guild Wars 2 that has his issue. Every FPS developed in the past 15 years has a smooth camera when you turn. Every TPS does as well. MMO’s do. I’m sure there’s a handful of titles that have this problem, but I haven’t encountered them or I can’t remember them.

I thought for sure this problem would be fixed after the what, 9 months this game has been out? But no, a quick search on google will bring up dozens of topics complaining about mouse acceleration, mouse lag, this inertia subject, etc. I can’t believe a few hours of dev time couldn’t be used to fix something like this or add an option (good lord I can’t believe this would have to be an ‘option’ it should be standard like 99% of games).

I was downloading the game as a friend convinced me to start playing since I quit in freakin August. So I decided to look up one of my to kitten ues with the game to see if it’s been fixed.

Shoulda known better.

I am very displeased by the camera lag, it hurts my gaming as it is a very frustrating to deal with every time I log on to play.