Guild Wars 2

glaphen.5230:

Yes I have played it for hours but now the question for you hypocrites is have you?

Yes, that build is kitten.

@Kiriakulos
We are talking in a necro bunker topic, with 27k hp and a toughness amulet and traits spent in the toughness tree line that means an elementalist cant even burst half my hp out of DS. And If you read any of my other posts you can go from 0-75.9% ds only using 1 skill spectral armor and its a stun breaker also triggers at 50% and both grant protection.

So if your you get caught out of stability with a cc. pop spectral armor then DS instantly and just watch it rise. Even spectral armor will soak up 31.9% DS with all that toughness the eles 1 shot wont even hurt. Plague elite never hurt lol u actually cant do any damage to it if you cripple/weaken an ele which is pretty op.

Krayiss.4926:

@Kiriakulos
We are talking in a necro bunker topic, with 27k hp and a toughness amulet and traits spent in the toughness tree line that means an elementalist cant even burst half my hp out of DS. And If you read any of my other posts you can go from 0-75.9% ds only using 1 skill spectral armor and its a stun breaker also triggers at 50% and both grant protection.

So if your you get caught out of stability with a cc. pop spectral armor then DS instantly and just watch it rise. Even spectral armor will soak up 31.9% DS with all that toughness the eles 1 shot wont even hurt. Plague elite never hurt lol u actually cant do any damage to it if you cripple/weaken an ele which is pretty op.

Oh, if it’s a bunker then you should have to survive a 1vX, which is where actual damage mitigation and health renewal is most important.
You can have a big bag of HP, but every single hit is getting in it and that will kill alot faster than a class with half you HP and actual mitigation tools.

The Boz.2038:

I always try to pick stuff apart, it’s how I make my own builds.
OK, so…
27812 HP is one of the 569 Vitality amulets + 30 points into Blood Magic. How do you get both Foot in the Grave and Spectral Attunement with 40 points remaining?
Ghastly claws hits eight times. Each hit gives you 1.5% LF. Pray the enemy doesn’t interrupt you with a stun, daze, immobilize, or that he doesn’t dodge, evade, block, etc. A single barrel roll cuts that skill’s number of hits in half. Using it on an NPC instead of the enemy player doesn’t really buy you a lot of time as you’re not creating any extra pressure.

ummm 20points into blood magic 20 in curses + 5 runes for 90 vit and a 1 divinity rune its not hard. If your having a hard time getting life force try swapping weapons and positioning yourself so you hit more than 1 target with necrotic grasp, if u hit 2 people thats 9 lifeforce 4 people thats 18%. When a mesmer has 3 clones out + himself and a ranger has 4 spirit pets+pet or a necro has his 5 pets out you always have a stupid amount of life force…

ps someone dodging ghastly claws isn’t the best use of their dodge so that means your teammate can burst them down now

Post me back when you have more questions!

Kiriakulos.1690:

Krayiss.4926:

@Kiriakulos
We are talking in a necro bunker topic, with 27k hp and a toughness amulet and traits spent in the toughness tree line that means an elementalist cant even burst half my hp out of DS. And If you read any of my other posts you can go from 0-75.9% ds only using 1 skill spectral armor and its a stun breaker also triggers at 50% and both grant protection.

So if your you get caught out of stability with a cc. pop spectral armor then DS instantly and just watch it rise. Even spectral armor will soak up 31.9% DS with all that toughness the eles 1 shot wont even hurt. Plague elite never hurt lol u actually cant do any damage to it if you cripple/weaken an ele which is pretty op.

Oh, if it’s a bunker then you should have to survive a 1vX, which is where actual damage mitigation and health renewal is most important.
You can have a big bag of HP, but every single hit is getting in it and that will kill alot faster than a class with half you HP and actual mitigation tools.

Yup thats exactly right. Thats where the the health renewal or in our case getting to 75% lifeforce in 1 skill is very handy. When your 1vX thowing out 1 necrotic grasp can easily be 20-30 lifeforce if you use it right. What other bunker can heal 20% with 1 attack from its #1? you get 2 spectral armors before you die. Thats 150% life force +27k hp + if your really by urself plague elite will keep you up another 20 seconds while waiting for your 2 spectral armors to come back up. That should give you enough time for your team to capture the other 2 points kill lord and make it back in time to kill the 3 people attacking you.

Since when Life Force is considered equal to HP?

90% lifeforce is 10% smaller than hp pool?

Krayiss.4926:

90% lifeforce is 10% smaller than hp pool?

LF is not HP if you’re not in DS, that’s the point we keep bringing up and even still, direct damage outstrips the rate at which you accumulate LF.

If you are gaining 20% LF per grasp, if it’s not a Spirit Ranger it’s probably at least 3 enemies.
If they decide to focus you and even 1 is built for burst you’ll probably be taking over 10k damage a second, that’s over 30% of your HP a second.
The second your LF runs out you’ll be dead before DS even comes out of CD.

That’s the typical scenario that makes me say that Necros don’t make good bunkers.
Go Spike damage because that we can actually do well and with our built-in mechanics we actually do have a larger than average survival for a burst spec, especially since alot of our burst damage skills hit in decent sized AoEs.

For a lot of reasons LF isn’t HP.

When you are in DS:

• You don’t have access to your stunbreakers
• You have a constant health degeneration, approximately 5 to 10 stacks of bleed from a condition build depending on your HP pool.
• You don’t have access to healing
• You don’t have access to any utility
• You don’t have access to your elite
• You don’t have on-demand access to it (10s cooldown)

For those reasons, calling LF as HP is a nonsense.

I bunker all the time on my Necro. I live longer than guardians too. Mid Necro bunker imo is the best. Guardians just dont have enough health or damage.

@ kiriakulos when your lifeforce runs out your DS is not put back on 7sec cd.
Just curious lets compare a guardian. The only difference is armor mitigation! Its maybe 15% less because of heavy armor but necros have atleast that in extra health?
Are you not using a toughness amulet is that why your so squishy?

Even a guardian can get killed if 3 people focus and land every single burst skill they have. (If you see 3 people inc you better tell your team and have someone on the way)

Your either not dodging or using your spectral amror in the right ways which I’ve described.
What do guardians have, good healing? Can they heal 75% with 1 skill? When they start bursting use spectral armor DS. Now they used alot of burst. What your telling me nothing is on CD and you drop out of DS and they use all their skills again at the same time. Well at 50% hp spectral armor again/DS. It runs out….. What all their burst skill dont have cds and they all 3 can continuously do 10kdps. Plague elite.

Your either not dodging. Not using a toughness amulet. Not having a decent build. Not using spectral armor as a protection boon when they start bursting. Not using spectral walk and teleporting away. Not using your heal right before you go in deathshroud and having the cd ready after about 2-3 DS’s. Have you tried necro bunker in Tpvp?

I mean I guess If you sit there your going to die as a necro. But come on I don’t need to spell it out. Your staff has an aoe chill. You can combo that with weakness. You can trait weakening shroud which is weakness on a 7sec cd when entering DS. You can use Dag oh what for?> You guessed it another weakness. DS chill/fear, Staff fear, etc. How many guardians have 3 weakness condis?

It just seems your not using any of your skills to prevent them from doing 10k dps a second and unable to figure out how to gain lifeforce or your just facing 3 players who are better than you and your not playing with a team. :/

Necro bunkers can take more damage then Guardians. Guardians just have more ways to give boons to allies. Where Necros focus on throwing out aoe weakness/chills/fears to prevent that 30% damage instead of giving your allies 30% dmg reduction boon.

Im actually trying out a bunker well build right now so I can also give protection boons out to allies and transfusion which heals allies.

The guardian has a LOT more sustain due to blocks, heals, regeneration, etc.

sorrow.2364:

For a lot of reasons LF isn’t HP.

When you are in DS:

• You don’t have access to your stunbreakers
• You have a constant health degeneration, approximately 5 to 10 stacks of bleed from a condition build depending on your HP pool.
• You don’t have access to healing
• You don’t have access to any utility
• You don’t have access to your elite
• You don’t have on-demand access to it (10s cooldown)

For those reasons, calling LF as HP is a nonsense.

Thats right you dont have a few of those.
Stunbreaker? You have stability so hmm
hp degen ya its pretty slow lol but doesn’t really matter when you use it right when they burst.
Healing. Life transfer is a heal if you think about it.
No utilities? Hmmm I forgot it give you a whole new set of skill. What do they do. I dont know alot of cc. Chill, Fear, aoe immobilize.
Elite umm Ya im poping my elite every 30 seconds, Plague is 3min cd When I need acess I just take DS off and use it. Its not like you can use your other skills during it so whats it matter?
7sec cd when traited and if you say in it for 7 seconds their is no CD.

And the only reason I need to say thakittens similar to HP is that when I take a hit in DS my HP doesn’t drop.

The Boz.2038:

The guardian has a LOT more sustain due to blocks, heals, regeneration, etc.

The Necro has alot more Dmg mitigation/sustain due to weakness, life force gains and cc (fear, chill, poison, cripple) + transfusion trait is a nice heal. A 2nd hp bar etc.

With my necro i can kill 2 players at once sometimes 3 does that qualify for bunker? am i just fighting baddies?

Krayiss.4926:

Thats right you dont have a few of those.
Stunbreaker? You have stability so hmm
hp degen ya its pretty slow lol but doesn’t really matter when you use it right when they burst.
Healing. Life transfer is a heal if you think about it.
No utilities? Hmmm I forgot it give you a whole new set of skill. What do they do. I dont know alot of cc. Chill, Fear, aoe immobilize.
Elite umm Ya im poping my elite every 30 seconds, Plague is 3min cd When I need acess I just take DS off and use it. Its not like you can use your other skills during it so whats it matter?
7sec cd when traited and if you say in it for 7 seconds their is no CD.

And the only reason I need to say thakittens similar to HP is that when I take a hit in DS my HP doesn’t drop.

• Yeah, you have stability for 3s at the cost of 30 traitpoints… It doesn’t even break stun, so what?
• So you’re suggesting to use DS just for eating bursts… Pretty much what you do with invulnerabilities and evades, right? I wonder why Necromancers have to build LF, taking a really long time, to eat a backstab while any other profession can just pop their block/invulnerability/evade..?
• Nope, LT is not an heal. It just compensate for few seconds the natural LF degen at the cost of not being able to do nothing during the cast (including dodging).
• As far I know, if LF was really another HP bar, I would be supposed to access to 10 skills, not 5.
• You know that Plague isn’t the only elite necro have, right? Golem charge can be really useful while you’re in DS but, unfortunately, you can’t use it.
• If you stay in it for 7s there is no CD? Have you ever played a Necromancer? Just for curiosity. Or have you just jumped on the bandwagon yesterday and you are pretending you have played Necro since launch?
• Also when you’re evading when you’re taking hits your HP doesn’t drop. Does that mean that Thieves have a second HP bar?

sorrow.2364:

• If you stay in it for 7s there is no CD? Have you ever played a Necromancer? Just for curiosity.

He’s probably talking about a bug: if your DS ends because it reached 0% LF, the cooldown begins not from the moment DS ended, but from the moment you entered DS in the first place.

@sorrow
-Stability never broke stun.
-DS is used for CC’s Taking big burst and just any dmg in general.
-When I use LT my LF usally goes up 10% and does a bit of aoe damage. Its nice on shadow refuges. So it heals 10% life force, its basically a heal.
-If your in DS and your fear is on CD its called hop out lol (you really don’t play necro)
-What Boz said.
-If your saying evades count (dodges?) then necros have 3?

Its like your not reading my posts or never played a necro.

PS Life transfer is an aoe heal when specced transfusion. Not sure If you knew that.

The Boz.2038:

He’s probably talking about a bug: if your DS ends because it reached 0% LF, the cooldown begins not from the moment DS ended, but from the moment you entered DS in the first place.

I don’t think so, it doesn’t make sense. If you are kicked out of DS because you have no more LF, then you can’t go back in to trigger its effects.

Krayiss.4926:

@sorrow
-Stability never broke stun.
-DS is used for CC’s Taking big burst and just any dmg in general.
-When I use LT my LF usally goes up 10% and does a bit of aoe damage. Its nice on shadow refuges. So it heals 10% life force, its basically a heal.
-If your in DS and your fear is on CD its called hop out lol (you really don’t play necro)
-What Boz said.
-If your saying evades count (dodges?) then necros have 3?

Its like your not reading my posts or never played a necro.

PS Life transfer is an aoe heal when specced transfusion. Not sure If you knew that.

- So what? You still have no access to stunbreakers while in DS. There is only an exceptional case when spending 30 points into the Soul Reaping traitline that you have access to stability when going into DS but, still, you have no stunbreakers once stability ends.
- Saying the obvious is not useful. I’ve pointed out that Necromancers need to build LF to do something other profession do with a single press of a button.
- Nope, it is impossible. Go in the Mists and make a video of you being able to get 10% more Life Force with a Life Transfer. I’ve just tested it in the Mists. Going into DS and using LT then popping out when it is finished leaves you with the same LF you were before going into DS. I still think you don’t really play Necromancer.
- Still, you have to get out of DS to use your elite, so it isn’t a real HP bar. Don’t turn the topic in the direction you want.
- So you essentialy said a pointless statement..?
- Dodges are accessible to any profession. Some profession have vigor (doubling the dodges), weapon slot evades, blocks, invulnerabilities and so on. Necromancers have none of those.

Any of you saying that necros can bunker well…have you tried it?

A friend of mine and I have tested necro bunkers ad infinitum and they simply don’t hold up well. In a 1v1, I was able to melt all the permutations of a necro bunker build within 35 seconds (with my necro). I’ve also seen and played against Spazzomancer’s supposed necro bunker. Again, in a 1v1 scenario I was able to melt him down in under a minute.

If a supposed bunker can’t last more than 1 minute against 1 enemy, I can’t consider it a bunker.

sorrow.2364:

Fenrir.5493:

Really is surprising that necros dont know theyr class, it really is… you can have 5 wells 6 if you revive an ally… so much for 1 skill isnt it.

I don’t know if you are aware or not, but only Well of Blood heals. And, by the way, it is far inferior to Consume Conditions, even when Cleric amulets, which is useless on Necromancer because nothing scales with Healing Power.

sorrow.2364:

Unkillable against direct damage… really, maybe you should stop bunkering and do real damage, any real burst damage will get to a warrior hard specially if it is from a thief, warriors cant bunker if they dont have protection, and rangers regen more health than a warrior and have acces to protection.

Really?
Do you have any proof backing up what you say?

Warriors have, because of the armor, 7% extra damage reduction compared to rangers. They can easily get to over 3500 armor, while rangers can’t, which makes protection not that needed.

Anyway, warrior regeneration with Cleric and 20 points into Defense is:
- 448 HP per second from Healing Signet
- ~176 HP per second from Adrenal Health with full adrenaline
- ~270 HP per second from permanent regeneration with banners
Total is: 894 HP per second

You can easily reach 1k by picking healing power runes or going deeper into Defense.

Ranger regen is:
- 129 HP per second from Signet of the Wild
- ~44 HP per second from Natural Healing
- ~270 HP per second from regen
Total is: 443 HP per second

Not even half of the Warrior HP regen.

Only well of blood heals… i know now that you dont even know your traits or bunkers, bunkers are no healing lla the time, the role of bunkers is endure damage with protection, otherwise they dont bunker, you would take full damage with 0 protection and with a well necro you can have a lot of protection and a very good healing.

About the other i know warrior can be downed by burst very easy i have a warrior and i tryied a very “bunkering” regen build even with shouts to have some burst healing, but that dosent prevented a thief from stealth to get my health to 20% in 1 backstab and then just spam heart seeker me to death, that for sure wouldnt happened if i had protection on him, regeneration is meaningless to bunker, you should know that if you know what bunkers do but you dont because you dont even bunker because “poor necros cant do that”, and i have a bunker and i know what im talking about.

Fenrir.5493:

Only well of blood heals… i know now that you dont even know your traits or bunkers, bunkers are no healing lla the time, the role of bunkers is endure damage with protection, otherwise they dont bunker, you would take full damage with 0 protection and with a well necro you can have a lot of protection and a very good healing.

About the other i know warrior can be downed by burst very easy i have a warrior and i tryied a very “bunkering” regen build even with shouts to have some burst healing, but that dosent prevented a thief from stealth to get my health to 20% in 1 backstab and then just spam heart seeker me to death, that for sure wouldnt happened if i had protection on him, regeneration is meaningless to bunker, you should know that if you know what bunkers do but you dont because you dont even bunker because “poor necros cant do that”, and i have a bunker and i know what im talking about.

Bunker is all about sustain.
If you have only a single source of healing, you can’t bunker at all.
It’s not a case if the professions with best access to healing are the best bunkers.

Protection is not everything. It just do the job of toughness, which warriors have by default thanks to heavy armor and a lot of toughness increase traits.

I won’t believe that a thief put your health on 20% with a backstab against a bunker warrior until I see it. It’s about 14k damage on a profession with 3400+ armor, plain impossible.

sorrow.2364:

Bunker is all about sustain.
If you have only a single source of healing, you can’t bunker at all.
It’s not a case if the professions with best access to healing are the best bunkers.

Protection is not everything. It just do the job of toughness, which warriors have by default thanks to heavy armor and a lot of toughness increase traits.

I won’t believe that a thief put your health on 20% with a backstab against a bunker warrior until I see it. It’s about 14k damage on a profession with 3400+ armor, plain impossible.

And necros not only have one source of healing all wells can heal if you spec for it, and for bunkering you need to learn one key thing:

You have protection its your primare defense but you shouldnt eat all hits like a mad, you should use blocks or invulnerability, dodges, etc whenever you can.

Now necros can do that with plage, and of course deathshroud, they have fear to make their opponents run away, so you are not meant to take all hits and faceroll everything every bunker knows that.

Toughness is never going to be protection, protection is much better, having 3400 armor and no protection is not as usefull as having 2800 armor and protection, warrior cant bunker, you dont see any warrior bunkering, thats because there is no bunker spec for warriors, no protection no bunker, toughness will not subtitute protection.

Now, about the backstab, yes, a full glass cannon thief got 80% of my health with a backstab, i was on a shout warrior with 3300- 3400 armor, i can have 3200 with 2 handed sword, but i was with a shield on, and that is because i dont have protection on him.

Now my bunker mesmer with 2800 armor can tank any backstab any day because he has protection, and he dosent even have good healing but he can bunker very good, i have been bunkering 2 thieves throwing HS spam at me at the same time and they runed away, they couldnt kill me.

In the future, A-net wants to make necro’s bunker viable by giving them more access to stability, weakness, blind, lifeforce gain, and lots of life-siphons.

Spazzcromancer runs a bunker build based around heavy protection uptime, and high life force recovery. It’s a very good bunker build, and was viable predhuum buff, but is even stronger now, with the capability of easily taking points from under people with Fear.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Spazzcromancer runs a bunker build based around heavy protection uptime, and high life force recovery. It’s a very good bunker build, and was viable predhuum buff, but is even stronger now, with the capability of easily taking points from under people with Fear.

Well as you can see, necreo can bunker.

No and sort of yes.

Short bursts of bunker, done very nicely.

Long term/vs lots of people at once, not a chance vs a war/guard etc.

Necro tho advertised as attrition class, is a ‘damage class’. It’s same with support/heals, you get to do some very nice short burst, but ‘wing it’ while doing Damage mostly.

Anet has been promising to make necro’s feel more like advertised. I’d personally love to see more attrition less dot dam & glass cannon.