Can u nerf already thiefs and mesmers?
What exactly would thieves do if they didn’t have HS? Wouldn’t they just be useless? Mesmer should have portal nerfed/removed, other than that it’s perfectly fine.
What exactly would thieves do if they didn’t have HS? Wouldn’t they just be useless? Mesmer should have portal nerfed/removed, other than that it’s perfectly fine.
You mean removing the auto-face/leap/finisher skill? Well maybe you’ll learn to play without relying on a broken skill…just maybe lol
This isn’t about Thieves having burst, we are all for that. But when a Thief can kill a bunker with 3.2k armour (and 13.8k health) in a single combo, then things are just getting silly. Not because they can kill bunkers, but because they can do it to everyone else.
Ultimately though, ArenaNet will lose more and more potential PvPers (look at the amount of dead hot join servers, even at prime time) unless they make the game more casual friendly. This isn’t GW1, this game was made to appeal to the new generation of MMO players, and the PvP isn’t doing that, hence the complaints (and dead servers).
It sucks to be sure, but if ArenaNet lose PvPers because they aren’t enjoying themselves, then they lose development money, and the PvP budget will shrink. PvP already feels somewhat neglected, you want it to get worse because only the Tournament crowd are playing? At the moment even paid tournament players are getting kitten off because they are having to pay through the nose for tickets and endure long queues due to lack of players. Ask them if they would happily trade Thief and Mesmer burst (as well as Ele and Guardian survival) for cheaper ticket costs and faster queues (due to more players being involved).
ArenaNet could create 2 sets of amulets, one for Tournament, and the other for hot join. That way the extreme bunker and burst amulets would be more rounded for hot join, which would lower the burst and the huge survival, making the game more like WoW PvP.
What exactly would thieves do if they didn’t have HS? Wouldn’t they just be useless? Mesmer should have portal nerfed/removed, other than that it’s perfectly fine.
Thieves would be far from useless without it. However, a simple change could be changing the auto-tracking of the leap to be more like the manual Burning Speed from the Ele, where you actually have to aim it and can easily miss if you do it brainlessly.
The problem with thieves in my opinion is that you can’t predict damages.. Sometimes you feel like you should be receiving less than 3000 ( because of bonus or anything.) and you just die in 1 or 2 hits..
Generally, heartseeker can be dealing 5000, 8000, 600,etc… without really knowing and that’s probably the reason of your problem
However, that’s not " OP " in my opinion. Boring to face yes( especially in sPvP), but so are guardians and mesmers in tPvP..
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
Someone in a recent Mesmer thread mentioned the concept of Mes players having a form of Stockholm Syndrome. Thank you for helping to prove that, Mrowqa. Fact is, SS itself is arguably a smaller part of the issue in Mes play. After all, what other class needs to blow all of their generation skills to stack might? (for example, compare Empower -12 stacks of might – to one SS burst (9 – but you’ve used 2-3 skills pre-shatter, and those + the shatter used are now on c/d)). The big problem with Mes burst is the current issue with (iirc) f3 shatter triggering as a second f1 in burst rotation. This should not happen, and I do remember a dev mentioning it’s being looked into.
Regarding the Stockholm comment: Mesmers have been habitually slammed on code-side for months, finally catch a patch which is mostly favorable, and most folk -
many of whom are Mes players – begin to cry for nerfs.
As for thief burst, there are two problems I can think of: the oft-mentioned culling issue, and the speed/range of steal/mug shadowstep. Both of these are issues that we – as players – cannot control. (With that said, ANet – we’re going to need a hand on those). Take it from someone who mains Mesmer and plays a Thief alt – if not for those two things, Thieves are actually easier to shred than most people think. Doubt me? Try one out, pve-wise.
Malegryne (Sylvari Mesmer), Lannka (Asura Thief) – Ferguson’s Crossing: [PRD/BRB/OMFG]
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
I like this idea. I think it could be a solution to a couple of things people hate about thieves, especially CnD. If you were to miss a CnD, you could be penalized more, giving players even more of an incentive to dodge the CnD and thereby giving a more reliable way of preventing stealthing.
@Advent: Culling is just the icing on the cake, really. It just enhances the 10 thousand stealths and other gimmicks to completely avoid combat while still hitting the enemy. Thieves just should not be able to get into stealth and use something like an auto-attack which just happens to hit like a truck more than once, just to hop into another stealth and redo it. I don’t really care, if they can do it once; that is something you should be able to deal with. But 4 times within 10 seconds … why even defend it?
As for thieves using HS blindly … it is the epitome of tunnelvision. No other thing in this game symbolizes tunnelvision as much as 2-3 thieves spamming HS at 1 player at 100% health. That alone is enough for me to want it changed … tunnelvision is imho pretty much the opposite of teamplay.
(edited by Poxxia.1547)
HS is a godsend vs all these noob thieves lol. They simply burn their initiative with it on your 2 dodges and run around like a turkey while you roflstomp them.
~Shadowkat
What exactly would thieves do if they didn’t have HS? Wouldn’t they just be useless? Mesmer should have portal nerfed/removed, other than that it’s perfectly fine.
I guess u dont even play pvp. There is one big issue.
What we got atm? We got macro users vs regular users. This situation is so unfair.
What we need is:
Find a way to ban macro users or implement macros in game so all ppl can use it.
ATM Anet favoring macro users (and other cheaters) against regular users.
Thief is fine Mesmer is fine (disbalance is not so big atm).
Main problem r macro users:
Thief with macro can burst 2/3 of your HP with just one keypress b4 u can even see him.
Mesmer with macro can kill you in 1 or 2 seconds also with just one keypress.
So, as i said situation is so unfair and pure simple solution is:
Find a way to ban macro users OR Implement macro in game and make all players even.
Why running legion with the recent nerf to Protection Membrane?
Snow Crows [SC]
Hi.
Im mesmer.
I play legion/phantasm build because im not happy about recent shattered strenght changes.So Please nerf that and nerf thiefs. I just got hot join with 11 thiefs in it spamming hs allover the place.
And after that silly tpvp match with 3mes/2thief team against.
This is getting silly.Don’t get me wrong I know that some ppl " starters" need some way to win against other more experienced ppl. but smth like HS spam stright from stealth + backstab when u can’t see someone is far to op.
I’d rather fight 3 warriros specced for kill shot then 1 hs spam thief >.>
Hyperbole?
GO ahead and nerf Heartseeker. You really can’t nerf it anymore.
If you are dying to HS out of stealth, then you really have a L2P issue. Heartseeker doesn’t do good damage until you hit below a certain percentage of health. Full health the damage from HS is laughable. By the time you spam it to get someone down to 50% (I believe that is what it is now, as I don’t play that build anymore) they have no initiative and are easy to kill.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
just REMOVE initiative its stupid we all have cd’s except the thief class…
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
just REMOVE initiative its stupid we all have cd’s except the thief class…
If you remove the initiative system, you do realize that the people that are QQing about how OP we are will still be QQing. Due to the fact that IF they take out initiative, they will have to buff our individual weapon skills and adding extra affects to our abilities to compensate. So in essence, we will hit even harder and be given more durability in straight up fights.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
just REMOVE initiative its stupid we all have cd’s except the thief class…
If you remove the initiative system, you do realize that the people that are QQing about how OP we are will still be QQing. Due to the fact that IF they take out initiative, they will have to buff our individual weapon skills and adding extra affects to our abilities to compensate. So in essence, we will hit even harder and be given more durability in straight up fights.
who said they needed to be buffed?
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
just REMOVE initiative its stupid we all have cd’s except the thief class…
If you remove the initiative system, you do realize that the people that are QQing about how OP we are will still be QQing. Due to the fact that IF they take out initiative, they will have to buff our individual weapon skills and adding extra affects to our abilities to compensate. So in essence, we will hit even harder and be given more durability in straight up fights.
Umm your skills are your skills; why would they need to do something extra special?
They aren’t auto attacks you know….
\-\ Poquito (Engineer) /-/ Tarnished Coast
Not Sure If Serious [BZNZ] ||| Cynical [CYN]
Not Sure If Serious [BZNZ] ||| Cynical [CYN]
What exactly would thieves do if they didn’t have HS? Wouldn’t they just be useless? Mesmer should have portal nerfed/removed, other than that it’s perfectly fine.
You mean removing the auto-face/leap/finisher skill? Well maybe you’ll learn to play without relying on a broken skill…just maybe lol
Agreed, it’s absolutely broken. Not overpowered though, it just has a mind of it’s own, making you jump all over the place. That’s broken.
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
just REMOVE initiative its stupid we all have cd’s except the thief class…
If you remove the initiative system, you do realize that the people that are QQing about how OP we are will still be QQing. Due to the fact that IF they take out initiative, they will have to buff our individual weapon skills and adding extra affects to our abilities to compensate. So in essence, we will hit even harder and be given more durability in straight up fights.
Umm your skills are your skills; why would they need to do something extra special?
They aren’t auto attacks you know….
A lot of other professions have extra status, more synergy with traits and more condition stacks effects tied to their weapons skills. Thief may have them, but they aren’t as powerful because with initiative we can spam them.
Without the ability to spam them, they need to be stronger. Also a rework of traits will be needed for Thief.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
just REMOVE initiative its stupid we all have cd’s except the thief class…
If you remove the initiative system, you do realize that the people that are QQing about how OP we are will still be QQing. Due to the fact that IF they take out initiative, they will have to buff our individual weapon skills and adding extra affects to our abilities to compensate. So in essence, we will hit even harder and be given more durability in straight up fights.
Umm your skills are your skills; why would they need to do something extra special?
They aren’t auto attacks you know….
Probably to add up to the now broken class that is supposed to excel at single-target burst damage, which, by removing initiative, will be severely underpowered unless of course buffed accordingly to hit hard enough to compensate.
Also, fun fact: Initiative is a curse. Instead of having several cooldowns ready, all your cooldowns are ONE cooldown.
How kittened is that?
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
just REMOVE initiative its stupid we all have cd’s except the thief class…
If you remove the initiative system, you do realize that the people that are QQing about how OP we are will still be QQing. Due to the fact that IF they take out initiative, they will have to buff our individual weapon skills and adding extra affects to our abilities to compensate. So in essence, we will hit even harder and be given more durability in straight up fights.
Umm your skills are your skills; why would they need to do something extra special?
They aren’t auto attacks you know….Probably to add up to the now broken class that is supposed to excel at single-target burst damage, which, by removing initiative, will be severely underpowered unless of course buffed accordingly to hit hard enough to compensate.
Also, fun fact: Initiative is a curse. Instead of having several cooldowns ready, all your cooldowns are ONE cooldown.
How kittened is that?
That is the truth. I try to manage my Initiative well, but man. Sometimes it is such a curse. If they went with CDs. I would probably be much happier. Then I could just memorize a rotation and not have to think on the fly so much lol.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
Precasting hard hitting abilities with steal, quickness (for everyone, not just thief) and being able to stealth too often is really all that is OP for thief.
I would rather thief stealth last longer instead of having them burst every few seconds forcing you to go defensive while they’re visible, and then disappearing before you can deal any serious damage to them.
HS’s damage, cast time and range are all fine, but I don’t like that it basically plays the game for you. I can face away from my enemy and try to run away, but spamming 2 will always bring me back to the target if they’re in range. I don’t really see it as imbalanced, just not good gameplay.
You should never die to thieves that just spam HS though. The damage against targets over 50% health is low enough that you’re going to have time and options to counter it on a glass cannon, and the thief will just run out of init against a more tanky build. It’s one of the few thief skills that you can easily see coming and dodge effectively.
Initiative is fine as a mechanic IMO. If anything, all classes should have energy like they did in GW1 instead of 90 second cooldowns to balance their best abilities. A long cooldown doesn’t balance a powerful ability in a game with 3 second fights. It just limits how often you can fight effectively. With an init/energy system, choosing to pop a big burst damage ability comes at the cost of not being able to use another ability later.
“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
As a Thief I do think that they need to nerf precasting with Steal.
That to me is the number on broken thing about Thieves at the moment, but it isn’t unavoidable like some would like people to think.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
just REMOVE initiative its stupid we all have cd’s except the thief class…
If you remove the initiative system, you do realize that the people that are QQing about how OP we are will still be QQing. Due to the fact that IF they take out initiative, they will have to buff our individual weapon skills and adding extra affects to our abilities to compensate. So in essence, we will hit even harder and be given more durability in straight up fights.
who said they needed to be buffed?
he did. are you dumb? without initiative thief skills are too weak. they only seem OP with how fast you can use them.
CD
The other problem is there is no real penalty for bad play with the initiative system. If you miss an ability, for instance using HS out of range (or it being dodged) you should be penalized with additional initiative use.
just REMOVE initiative its stupid we all have cd’s except the thief class…
If you remove the initiative system, you do realize that the people that are QQing about how OP we are will still be QQing. Due to the fact that IF they take out initiative, they will have to buff our individual weapon skills and adding extra affects to our abilities to compensate. So in essence, we will hit even harder and be given more durability in straight up fights.
who said they needed to be buffed?
he did. are you dumb? without initiative thief skills are too weak. they only seem OP with how fast you can use them.
majority of the dmg they do comes from their auto atk which costs no initiative and no removing initiative and putting in cd’s wouldnt require a boost in their dmg since most other classes auto atks are weak by comparison.
the problem with thiefs is 1 they have no cd on their skills 2. the ability to go into stealth anytime. the dmg output on a thief is fine since its meant to be a quick killer, but not when ur opponent cant see u every 3-4 sec for 4-5secs
As a Thief I do think that they need to nerf precasting with Steal.
That to me is the number on broken thing about Thieves at the moment, but it isn’t unavoidable like some would like people to think.
That would completely destroy D/P and ruin S/D even more after the OH dagger nerf.
We should really think twice about the thief when it comes to balance.
What does a thief has to offer in a fight ? ( maybe skilled, maybe in top tPvP)
Conditions :
A thief has to offer very little in terms of conditions.
The thief can apply very few conditions with his condition builds ( P/D, D/D, caltrops or venom share), more precisely poison, bleeds, cripple and weakness ( in a venom share build).
Those conditions are easily wiped out by other classes ( especially bunker eles and bunker enge, also being immune to conditions when under 25% health) in mid fights, and those thieves have very little AoE damage outside their conditions.
A condition thief is useless in midfights, that’s why it’s pretty bad for a roamer.
A bleed thief is forced to go into stealth tons of times, leaving the cap.
Condition thieves are strong BUT not the optimal choice. They still have a niche in PvP tough.
Burst :
burst thieves totally rely on Mug and Steal mid cast.
Mug is also the only real way to do decent burst in other power builds ( especially D/P, thanks to the Backstab -> mug combo).
No Steal mid cast would TOTALLY destroy D/P and S/D ( that are already suboptimal) and favour only S/P builds, who usually use Basilisk + mug+ non hasted S/P as a “minor burst” to force the stunbreak, than going with PW + haste and get the kill.
The thief, due to the nerfs to OH dagger and Tactical strike, has no real sustained dps options /control option, or they are overal very weak when compared to burst or other classes sustained dps options.
A thief, without mid cast Steal would have the only decent thing available to the thief removed, or rather its burst.
Basically, without burst, the thief would be a quite useless proff, if not in some niche comps based on conditions spamming ( venom share would rule supreme and be the only DECENT option for a thief). *
While i agree that thief burst “might” be too strong ( and this even knowing that burst in this game is insane, and driving people off from pvp while leading to a very boring bunker-burst meta), it is actually the only thing the thief has as a powerful option.
Nerfing burst all over the classes, and nerfing especially thief burst , should be followed by a quite strong overhaul for the class, because it would totally shift how the class is meant to be played, and sincerely, the thief profession doesn’t have the tools to be played differently AND STILL BE COMPETITIVE.
Don’t let the whines to go over, fighting a thief is frustrating, but think FOR A MOMENT to the health of the game: destroying a class simply because you hate it will not make the game better.
(edited by Mrbig.8019)
the problem with thiefs is 1 they have no cd on their skills
they have no cd on their skills
no cd
Get out.
As a Thief I do think that they need to nerf precasting with Steal.
That to me is the number on broken thing about Thieves at the moment, but it isn’t unavoidable like some would like people to think.
That would completely destroy D/P and ruin S/D even more after the OH dagger nerf.
We should really think twice about the thief when it comes to balance.
What does a thief has to offer in a fight ? ( maybe skilled, maybe in top tPvP)
Conditions :
A thief has to offer very little in terms of conditions.
The thief can apply very few conditions with his condition builds ( P/D, D/D, caltrops or venom share), more precisely poison, bleeds, cripple and weakness ( in a venom share build).
Those conditions are easily wiped out by other classes ( especially bunker eles and bunker enge, also being immune to conditions when under 25% health) in mid fights, and those thieves have very little AoE damage outside their conditions.
A condition thief is useless in midfights, that’s why it’s pretty bad for a roamer.
A bleed thief is forced to go into stealth tons of times, leaving the cap.
Condition thieves are strong BUT not the optimal choice. They still have a niche in PvP tough.
Burst :
burst thieves totally rely on Mug and Steal mid cast.
Mug is also the only real way to do decent burst in other power builds ( especially D/P, thanks to the Backstab -> mug combo).
No Steal mid cast would TOTALLY destroy D/P and S/D ( that are already suboptimal) and favour only S/P builds, who usually use Basilisk + mug+ non hasted S/P as a “minor burst” to force the stunbreak, than going with PW + haste and get the kill.
The thief, due to the nerfs to OH dagger and Tactical strike, has no real sustained dps options /control option, or they are overal very weak when compared to burst or other classes sustained dps options.
A thief, without mid cast Steal would have the only decent thing available to the thief removed, or rather its burst.
Basically, without burst, the thief would be a quite useless proff, if not in some niche comps based on conditions spamming ( venom share would rule supreme and be the only DECENT option for a thief). *
While i agree that thief burst “might” be too strong ( and this even knowing that burst in this game is insane, and driving people off from pvp while leading to a very boring bunker-burst meta), it is actually the only thing the thief has as a powerful option.
Nerfing burst all over the classes, and nerfing especially thief burst , should be followed by a quite strong overhaul for the class, because it would totally shift how the class is meant to be played, and sincerely, the thief profession doesn’t have the tools to be played differently AND STILL BE COMPETITIVE.
Don’t let the whines to go over, fighting a thief is frustrating, but think FOR A MOMENT to the health of the game: destroying a class simply because you hate it will not make the game better.
Eh, I don’t see eliminating pre-casting destroying PD, DD or SD at all. I read your explanation and I am not seeing how crucial it truly is. I think that if you cast CnD and hit Steal mid cast, it should cancel the CnD. I am not saying that it is OP, but it is a little imbalanced and no other skills in the game works that way from what I have seen. As a Thief I think that it gives a little more time for our opponent to react, because a Thief under Haste pre casting is pretty kitten and requires a pretty high skill level to avoid. I can do it (not sure if it is because I recognize the animation or just understand what a Thief does due to how long I have played one), but your average player isn’t going to be able to.
Back in beta we used to be able to stack the bleeds pretty high, but that got nerfed hard. Especially Pistol Main hand and stealth attack. Along with LDB, not only did they increase the cost it also reduce how many we could stack so lowering our condition spec DPS.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
Why running legion with the recent nerf to Protection Membrane?
moving 5 pts is hard, build still owns
Sprawl – Necro – Eredon Terrace
I find it so hard to understand how people think having multiple skills that gap close, homes mindlessly directly to target, evade damage, deal huge damage, combo finisher, deals conditions, and all the while SPAMMABLE are ok. A spammable combo finisher in its own is just wow. The problem with moves like HS is what I mentioned in the last sentences. The other classes do not receive these insane abilities. If I blow a teleport on my ele at the wrong time I pay the price.
Why should the thief be able to have a even battle with another prof., then once the tides turn against his favor falls back on moves like heartseeker that are basically an iWin button. Spam that 2-3 times at the end of the battle and by then that other person will have blown all major cooldowns during the fight. That is a guaranteed 2-3 hits that you cannot receive damage on and will normally kill the target with no cds. Notice I didn’t mention stealth, and damage few times, the mechanics of the thief are broken
(edited by Raijinn.9065)
lol. If you have a Thief that is spamming HS 2-3 times to catch you.
1. isn’t damaging you.
2. when he gets there he has no initiative to damage you other than auto attack.
3. it is near worthless unless you have 25% health or less.
4. dodge
5. dodge
6-infinity. DODGE.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
lol. If you have a Thief that is spamming HS 2-3 times to catch you.
1. isn’t damaging you.
2. when he gets there he has no initiative to damage you other than auto attack.
3. it is near worthless unless you have 25% health or less.
4. dodge
5. dodge
6-infinity. DODGE.
Selective reading or something. I clearly stated having an even duel with someone then when you both get low (which is under 50% health an more normally 25% or less) the thief can rely on heartseeker. I also stated if all cooldowns are already blown they will all hit and even if they don’t its not like the thief will take any damage with the evasion tied to that crap….yea 3 dodges in a row that’s pretty fancy there. Glad I have THREE dodges to use at any point, yea cuz I never run out of my three dodges.
(edited by Raijinn.9065)
If he has init left to spam HS, and you’ve blown all your cooldowns, then he was conserving his resources while you burned through yours and it wasn’t really the even duel you thought it was.
“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
If he has init left to spam HS, and you’ve blown all your cooldowns, then he was conserving his resources while you burned through yours and it wasn’t really the even duel you thought it was.
Have to agree with this, if the thief got enough ini left to spamm HS after you used all your def skills….you’ve been outplayed
I find it so hard to understand how people think having multiple skills that gap close, homes mindlessly directly to target, evade damage, deal huge damage, combo finisher, deals conditions, and all the while SPAMMABLE are ok. A spammable combo finisher in its own is just wow. The problem with moves like HS is what I mentioned in the last sentences. The other classes do not receive these insane abilities. If I blow a teleport on my ele at the wrong time I pay the price.
Why should the thief be able to have a even battle with another prof., then once the tides turn against his favor falls back on moves like heartseeker that are basically an iWin button. Spam that 2-3 times at the end of the battle and by then that other person will have blown all major cooldowns during the fight. That is a guaranteed 2-3 hits that you cannot receive damage on and will normally kill the target with no cds. Notice I didn’t mention stealth, and damage few times, the mechanics of the thief are broken
hs is fine
sometimes its better to try out the class before posting.
thief has 12 initiatief thats 4 Hs’s he can spam ( or 2.5 Death blossums or 2.5 pistol whips ,….)
so after more or less 3 attack spells the thief is out of ways to hit you other then his normale attack.
( you can dodge 2 times leaving the thief with only 1 spell able to hit you before his ini runs out and it regens realy slowly)
there isnt that much differnce between the ini cost of thief and recharge of other classes spells. just a bigger "if they dont dodge " factor is involved here compared to other classes
only thing that needs a nerf is the damage a glasscannon BS can do ( shoud be max 50% of total max HP of target )
1shot kill combo’s need to be nerfed out of the game ( and that goes for all classes that can do higher then 10 k dps in 1 non-channeled hit )
lol. If you have a Thief that is spamming HS 2-3 times to catch you.
1. isn’t damaging you.
2. when he gets there he has no initiative to damage you other than auto attack.
3. it is near worthless unless you have 25% health or less.
4. dodge
5. dodge
6-infinity. DODGE.Selective reading or something. I clearly stated having an even duel with someone then when you both get low (which is under 50% health an more normally 25% or less) the thief can rely on heartseeker. I also stated if all cooldowns are already blown they will all hit and even if they don’t its not like the thief will take any damage with the evasion tied to that crap….yea 3 dodges in a row that’s pretty fancy there. Glad I have THREE dodges to use at any point, yea cuz I never run out of my three dodges.
Let’s clarify a few things.
A) There is no evasion tied to heartseeker. None. Go try it yourself.
B) If all your CD’s are blown AND you don’t have the endurance to dodge, what did you expect? Kill shot will drop you, Crippling leap->blurry frenzy + mind wrack will drop you, Stun->HB will drop you… the list goes on and on and on and on.
You should also use your endurance more effectively – HS when your low and CnD are the priority skills to dodge when fighting a D/D thief – if you didn’t waste it on autoattack and dancing dagger, you’d have more left over to play more intelligently.
If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.
lol. If you have a Thief that is spamming HS 2-3 times to catch you.
1. isn’t damaging you.
2. when he gets there he has no initiative to damage you other than auto attack.
3. it is near worthless unless you have 25% health or less.
4. dodge
5. dodge
6-infinity. DODGE.Selective reading or something. I clearly stated having an even duel with someone then when you both get low (which is under 50% health an more normally 25% or less) the thief can rely on heartseeker. I also stated if all cooldowns are already blown they will all hit and even if they don’t its not like the thief will take any damage with the evasion tied to that crap….yea 3 dodges in a row that’s pretty fancy there. Glad I have THREE dodges to use at any point, yea cuz I never run out of my three dodges.
you can axualy have 4 dodges on any class …
2 dodge from yourself ,
1 dodge from 50% endurance on weapon swap ,
1 dodge from rune of the adventure ( 50% endurance on healing )
and most classes do have some way of getting vigor to ( if its on crit or on skilluse)
lol. If you have a Thief that is spamming HS 2-3 times to catch you.
1. isn’t damaging you.
2. when he gets there he has no initiative to damage you other than auto attack.
3. it is near worthless unless you have 25% health or less.
4. dodge
5. dodge
6-infinity. DODGE.Selective reading or something. I clearly stated having an even duel with someone then when you both get low (which is under 50% health an more normally 25% or less) the thief can rely on heartseeker. I also stated if all cooldowns are already blown they will all hit and even if they don’t its not like the thief will take any damage with the evasion tied to that crap….yea 3 dodges in a row that’s pretty fancy there. Glad I have THREE dodges to use at any point, yea cuz I never run out of my three dodges.
Let’s clarify a few things.
A) There is no evasion tied to heartseeker. None. Go try it yourself.
B) If all your CD’s are blown AND you don’t have the endurance to dodge, what did you expect? Kill shot will drop you, Crippling leap->blurry frenzy + mind wrack will drop you, Stun->HB will drop you… the list goes on and on and on and on.You should also use your endurance more effectively – HS when your low and CnD are the priority skills to dodge when fighting a D/D thief – if you didn’t waste it on autoattack and dancing dagger, you’d have more left over to play more intelligently.
Listen to this guy. He knows what he is saying.
Thieves have to use their resource smartly (is that a word?), otherwise we are rice paper for you to cut up and make origami out of.
Other than the initial burst from a D/D BS build, we have to manage our resources and be reactionary to what our opponent is doing. We aren’t in most cases controlling the fight. DD is waiting for you to make a mistake and then they capitalize on it.
There are a lot of people that make tons of mistakes. Like not having CC, not having a stun breaker, mismanaging their heal (I see so many people waiting to use their heal at like 10% health instead of using it at like 40 – 60%. Doing that means in most fights that are short you can use it again), blowing all their CDs pointlessly and just not being aware.
“Society is a madhouse, whose wardens are the police and the officials.”
1shot kill combo’s need to be nerfed out of the game ( and that goes for all classes that can do higher then 10 k dps in 1 non-channeled hit )
I definitely agree there.
Fights that last a few seconds (or even less than 1 second in some cases) are not enjoyable.
The longer a fight goes, the less luck matters and the more proper play style and decision making come into the equation. With the level of burst we have now, one mistake means you’re clicking return to waypoint.
“We recognize that the changes to [ele] will essentially remove it from play. In the future,
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of [ele] that would be viable
but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.” – ANet
Thieves and mesmers… what were they thinking?
Eh, I don’t see eliminating pre-casting destroying PD, DD or SD at all. I read your explanation and I am not seeing how crucial it truly is. I think that if you cast CnD and hit Steal mid cast, it should cancel the CnD. I am not saying that it is OP, but it is a little imbalanced and no other skills in the game works that way from what I have seen. As a Thief I think that it gives a little more time for our opponent to react, because a Thief under Haste pre casting is pretty kitten and requires a pretty high skill level to avoid. I can do it (not sure if it is because I recognize the animation or just understand what a Thief does due to how long I have played one), but your average player isn’t going to be able to.
Back in beta we used to be able to stack the bleeds pretty high, but that got nerfed hard. Especially Pistol Main hand and stealth attack. Along with LDB, not only did they increase the cost it also reduce how many we could stack so lowering our condition spec DPS.
ele lightning strike , blinding flash and lightning flash works exactly that way, along with thief inf signet and mesmer blink.
Glass cannons eles ( not a popular choice, but they can do FAR MORE DAMAGE than a thief) use exactly the same combo : earthquake, lightning flash mid cast, switch to fire, fire grab.
The whole combo does more than 16 k damage with the proper build in less than a sec ( the time to swithc to fire and use fire grab) and you still have time to spam ligthning whip.
Think about it for a sec: what would imply removing Steal mid cast ?
1: The thief would need melee range in order to get the burst ( no other burst class has this issue) if he doesn’t have inf signet slotted ( and usually burst thieves need other utilities)
2: The thief should land mug AFTER the backstab ( not benefitting of the execturioner trait bonus on backstab, which would deal 20% less damage. A lot)
3. The backstab -> mug combo would not be possible anymore, removing D/P only chance to burst an opponent
4. Steal would be privated by the only decent thing it is able to do. It’s already the most useless and bland class mechanic ever ( after the nerfs), it would become even more useless and bland .
Basically it would kill thief burst.
Again, i’m all in favour to TONE DOWN burst all around all classes, but removing Steal mid cast would totally destroy thief burst.
Moreover the thief class seems all around balanced arond that burst ( awful class design) and all past nerfs seem to put the class even more around that burst.
The class would get crsushed for competitve PvP.
Basically, a rehaul is needed, because lowering numbers or simply making Steal to interrupt casting, would cut out the thief from tourneys, if not in some niche condi build.