Guild Wars 2

About half a year ago ANet increased the duration of “Revealed” (the anti-stealth debuff) to 4 seconds in sPvP only.

Now I’m not sure what it was supposed to address at the time, but things have changed significantly since then. In fact none of the currently popular Thief builds rely much on stealth at all. In some cases stealth is even counterproductive as it helps the enemy cap a node.

The thing is, having a 3 second “Reveal” in WvW and PvE vs. a 4 second “Revealed” in sPvP is extremely jarring as timing stealth moves (most notably Cloak and Dagger) becomes “internalized”.

I still find myself constantly using Cloak and Dagger prematurely in sPvP (if I need an interrupt while playing S/D) because of the different timers.

Let’s be honest here, that balance change is an extremely “inelegant” way of adressing a balance issue that is no longer relevant. So can we have it reverted please?

I don’t see the point of 4s reveal anymore tbh, immediately made me drop stealth builds forever and go with better options.

Nope.

Dee Jay.2460:

be honest here, that balance change is an extremely “inelegant” way of adressing a balance issue that is no longer relevant. So can we have it reverted please?

If aNet was willing to revert changes that were obvious mistakes, then Elementalist wouldn’t be in its current state.

I would say that Warrior wouldn’t either, but that problem rose rather recently.

4s is ok in my opinion.

I would say make 3 or 4 seconds in both spvp and wvw, different times of revealed in the most annoying fact.

But yeah, anyway nobody bothers with stealth in spvp now, considering how useless it is.

Dee Jay.2460:

About half a year ago ANet increased the duration of “Revealed” (the anti-stealth debuff) to 4 seconds in sPvP only.

Now I’m not sure what it was supposed to address at the time, but things have changed significantly since then. In fact none of the currently popular Thief builds rely much on stealth at all. In some cases stealth is even counterproductive as it helps the enemy cap a node.

The thing is, having a 3 second “Reveal” in WvW and PvE vs. a 4 second “Revealed” in sPvP is extremely jarring as timing stealth moves (most notably Cloak and Dagger) becomes “internalized”.

I still find myself constantly using Cloak and Dagger prematurely in sPvP (if I need an interrupt while playing S/D) because of the different timers.

Let’s be honest here, that balance change is an extremely “inelegant” way of adressing a balance issue that is no longer relevant. So can we have it reverted please?

The thing is, this nerf was just plain stupid.

Originally, they wanted to stop chain CnD by applying reveal everytime you left stealth. This was mostly a change intended for WvW but it made its way to Spvp.

One week before the patch came out, they changed their mind since culling was also being removed. However, they kitten themselves – I gave advance notice and if they don’t do some sort of nerf to stealth, the thief haters will QQ even harder. Thus, you have the 4 secs reveal that serve no purpose other than to have something in the patch notes about nerfing stealth.

Will they revert it back? Sure, maybe in a year or two. They’re not going to own up to it. Before they reverted it back in PvE and WvW, they called us a bunch of QQ’ers.

Only thing that Thief need is really good player!

stealth is one of the most annoying things in MMO RPGs, it should have been F class mechanic and not as it is, problem would be solved… i used to hate how stealth worked in WoW, now i would love to have it like that instead of this…

or just remove stealth from weapon skills which can be spammed and move it to utility, thiefs who want to go with stealth will and the ones who like another types of fight will be ok

MaXi.3642:

stealth is one of the most annoying things in MMO RPGs, it should have been F class mechanic and not as it is, problem would be solved… i used to hate how stealth worked in WoW, now i would love to have it like that instead of this…

or just remove stealth from weapon skills which can be spammed and move it to utility, thiefs who want to go with stealth will and the ones who like another types of fight will be ok

Just because you (or anyone else) finds it annoying doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it’s place in a competitive environment. I dislike clones, but that doesn’t mean mesmers shouldn’t have them – in fact, it’s a fairly unique mechanic as far as MMO PvP is concerned – I can appreciate its place in making the game stand out, even though it can be frustrating to play against.

Gallrvaghn.4921:

Nope.

Without any explanation as to why you feel this way, it comes off like a tantrum. If you’d like to explain why you think a 4s revealed is justified, like how Dee Jay explained why he feels a 3s revealed is justified, that would be a different story.

evilapprentice.6379:

MaXi.3642:

stealth is one of the most annoying things in MMO RPGs, it should have been F class mechanic and not as it is, problem would be solved… i used to hate how stealth worked in WoW, now i would love to have it like that instead of this…

or just remove stealth from weapon skills which can be spammed and move it to utility, thiefs who want to go with stealth will and the ones who like another types of fight will be ok

Just because you (or anyone else) finds it annoying doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it’s place in a competitive environment. I dislike clones, but that doesn’t mean mesmers shouldn’t have them – in fact, it’s a fairly unique mechanic as far as MMO PvP is concerned – I can appreciate its place in making the game stand out, even though it can be frustrating to play against.

If you ask me stealth spam and clone spam have absolutely zero place in a competitive environment. Stealth should be an opener or getaway mechanic, nothing more. Clones are just bad bad bad design, in fact the whole idea of GW2 mesmer is bad. I mean really, confusing players with target drops and clone spam esportsyolo I guess. Reminds me of the Diablo 2 necromancer, just cast your minions and let the game play for you GG.

Mathias.9657:

evilapprentice.6379:

MaXi.3642:

stealth is one of the most annoying things in MMO RPGs, it should have been F class mechanic and not as it is, problem would be solved… i used to hate how stealth worked in WoW, now i would love to have it like that instead of this…

or just remove stealth from weapon skills which can be spammed and move it to utility, thiefs who want to go with stealth will and the ones who like another types of fight will be ok

Just because you (or anyone else) finds it annoying doesn’t mean it doesn’t have it’s place in a competitive environment. I dislike clones, but that doesn’t mean mesmers shouldn’t have them – in fact, it’s a fairly unique mechanic as far as MMO PvP is concerned – I can appreciate its place in making the game stand out, even though it can be frustrating to play against.

If you ask me stealth spam and clone spam have absolutely zero place in a competitive environment. Stealth should be an opener or getaway mechanic, nothing more. Clones are just bad bad bad design, in fact the whole idea of GW2 mesmer is bad. I mean really, confusing players with target drops and clone spam esportsyolo I guess. Reminds me of the Diablo 2 necromancer, just cast your minions and let the game play for you GG.

And that’s your opinion. You’re entitled to it, but we shouldn’t be making basic game design choices based on it – especially when you haven’t provided any data on the matter other than your personal feelings.

Was actually just about to make a post on this before seeing the thread.

It really does need to go, even if its making it 4 seconds in both areas. I have pretty much stopped playing my thief (main) in spvp due to just this issue. I play both WvW and s/tpvp and when I make the switch to tournies I find myself wasting ini and messing up constantly due to a difference in the revealed time. Thieves should be rewarded for being able to wait off the revealed debuff accurately not be punished for enjoying both areas of gameplay.

Not to mention we have never received a reason for the nerf when it went live. So we had to assume it was intended to alleviate stealth abuse via culling which had a far greater impact in WvW. Yet the nerf remains only in Tpvp???

NOTE: The real issue is playing in one game type (spvp vs wvw) will make you worse in the other at timing the debuff which is a big deal. So it forces the player to have to pick just one mode of play.

Duka.5864:

Only thing that Thief need is really good player!

Exactly. Somone needs to explain to me how thieves are so bad on one hand but on the other hand are pretty well represented in high level tournament play.

Kwll.1468:

Duka.5864:

Only thing that Thief need is really good player!

Exactly. Somone needs to explain to me how thieves are so bad on one hand but on the other hand are pretty well represented in high level tournament play.

Very few of them are running stealth based builds – the majority of players use S/D.
Dee Jay’s point isn’t “4s revealed makes thieves SOOO bad”, his argument was “It makes no sense”.

4s revealed was a counter to stealth spam in WvW when culling was still an issue. Why it made its way into TPvP, I’ll never know. Why it was rescinded in WvW, but remained in TPvP is an even bigger mystery – in capture point play, stealth has alot of weaknesses – can’t contest a point, easy to predict where you’re headed thanks to point-centric play, etc. It’s not worthless, but it’s not the OP god mode some players would label it.

Furthermore (as others have pointed out), it really kittens with your timing if you play both WvW and PvP – you get very used to rhythms and timing. Adding another second in TPvP is a pretty big deal when you start landing CnD’s with .5s left on your reveal timer because your used to it being a second shorter.