Guild Wars 2

With the new specialization changes the game is going to totally change. I imagine that reason why they are changing how movement skills interact with swiftness/cripple/chill/slow because in testing certain builds had too much access to multiple movement impairing skills and make certain melee specs unviable.

With the new condi changes I can already see certain team setups with Reaper and Chromancers being insane because between them you could chain a ton of Chill and Slow and then nuke them with AoE condis.

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

EDIT: Also, I feel like Swiftness not affecting movement skills may end up evening this change out fairly significantly. As “fun” as some of those combos were they were being used to break out of maps and in some cases abused to gain an advantage. I bet the map designers didn’t want to have to take so many different skill interactions into consideration for every single map.

Speak for yourself, I’m making a killing selling pitchforks right now. Pitchforks that will, at least, keep your enemies from leaping away once you’ve impaled them.

Panic? No, I’m not panic. I’ll actually glad I also play thief. We’ll have good buffs coming in HoT, and Chill/Cripple will be useless on us. It doesn’t do anything to reduce our heartseeker/movements/teleport skills.

I just need to beware of slow. But seeing that Mesmer gets it, I’m not that worried

Funny, I asked for this change 3 months after launch (they implemented it then, iirc) and my crippled guardian was leaping for 20 range. People called me silly.

Where is your God now? :P

My Esports leaps

Now I remember a thief i came accross several times which nick was ‘catch me if you can’… I wont be able anymore :/

I do think that movement changes are a well thought change. It brings ports and leaps more in line with each other. Ofc ports will still be better.

Can we please panic? I miss that elite skill from GW1 the most… !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! !!!

I’m still undecided whether this is good or bad.

The swiftness part makes all movement skills (directional leaps, teleports, ground-targeted leaps) more equal. It prevents some skills from being overly powerful get-away tools when the opponent doesn’t have easy access to movement impairing conditions.

The condition damage part makes skills more reliable as escapes or gap closers for the user, but lessens the ability to kite for the condition applier. Just like the swiftness part, the skills which were previously affected are now more in-line with unaffected gap closers and escapes. Should a warrior whirlwind or guardian leap be less effective at getting away than an elementalist or mesmer teleport? And it’s not like the movement impairing condition ends after the leap; kiting is still effective.

To me, the biggest impact is that these changes make some skills lose a unique subtlety they used to have.

I don’t get why everybody has such difficulty making predictions on this one. It’s not some sort of numbers tweak. The consequences are obvious and alternative consequences hardly forthcoming. Falling back on the “we haven’t seen it yet” defense doesn’t hide the fact that all the outcomes we can reasonably expect are negative, and it doesn’t lead to good feedback no matter what side of the argument you’re on.

Sins.4782:

Speak for yourself, I’m making a killing selling pitchforks right now. Pitchforks that will, at least, keep your enemies from leaping away once you’ve impaled them.

As long as the time it takes to do a dash is affected it’s all good if not we should support this guy \o/.

Well the OP mains warrior so its a quite nice buff for him. These changes are horrible and if they make it live all movement skills like rush need to be treated as rtl and give them double cd if they wont hit anything. I am fed up with thieves escaping from a losing fight, now i am supposed to watch baddie war escaping as well? The history repeats itself, first was ele who rtl away to be back within few seconds at full hp, now gs warriors will take that role running in/out at will.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

The reason people get upset is because of the ANET balance methodology. If we don’t try to stop bad changes before they get implemented, we are lucky to see the changes reverted for the next 9 months, if then.

skowcia.8257:

Well the OP mains warrior so its a quite nice buff for him. These changes are horrible and if they make it live all movement skills like rush need to be treated as rtl and give them double cd if they wont hit anything. I am fed up with thieves escaping from a losing fight, now i am supposed to watch baddie war escaping as well? The history repeats itself, first was ele who rtl away to be back within few seconds at full hp, now gs warriors will take that role running in/out at will.

Finally People be able to use mobility skills to disengage!? how unacceptable!
i’m sorry not everyone has 20 weapon skills and each skill have distinct usage so 2x CD on one skill can be less impactful for them.

We’ve kittened, they answered. Did we kitten too much or them answer too hard? I mean honestly reap what you sow.

Do we still kitten things? Is that a thing? I meant complained.

Sins.4782:

Speak for yourself, I’m making a killing selling pitchforks right now. Pitchforks that will, at least, keep your enemies from leaping away once you’ve impaled them.

But you’re not known for making pitchforks.

The movement skills should have the 40s cooldown like Ele has. A greatsword warrior will be able to escape almost any fight, since they have https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mobile_Strikes which removes immob on movement skills. Basically, no more way to stop a greatsword warrior from running away and regen max HP.

All the movement skills should be revisited and given the RTL treatment.

lighter.2708:

skowcia.8257:

Well the OP mains warrior so its a quite nice buff for him. These changes are horrible and if they make it live all movement skills like rush need to be treated as rtl and give them double cd if they wont hit anything. I am fed up with thieves escaping from a losing fight, now i am supposed to watch baddie war escaping as well? The history repeats itself, first was ele who rtl away to be back within few seconds at full hp, now gs warriors will take that role running in/out at will.

Finally People be able to use mobility skills to disengage!? how unacceptable!
i’m sorry not everyone has 20 weapon skills and each skill have distinct usage so 2x CD on one skill can be less impactful for them.

Mobility skills should be able to disengage, if your enemy doesn’t manage to catch you. However, even at the moment certain classes have an insane ability to run away, thieves, and mainly warriors. Warriors are more of an issue in my eyes since they are tanky, have great damage, and can also escape most situations. It’s frustrating in wuvs or pvp to try and chase down a warrior with condi clears, leaps, and gs skills. This will just make it easier for them to escape.

Its a stupid thing to do. Counterplay to a bad situation was using swiftness and spamming mobility skills to get away. Counterplay to runners was to use conditions to slow them down to catch up easier. Now both are gone.

(the reason i don’t include thieves into the list is because they are squishy as heck so their ability to disengage is in lieu of that)

It’s amazing how GS war seems to be the strongest build in PvP since yesterday. Like so strong it obviously needs a massive nerf I guess.

I’m not panicking, I’m reacting every bit reasonably. Movement skills in this game are already universally strong. In many cases they literally define whether a build can be played at a high tier or not, by whether that build has enough sources of mobility to distance itself from the also-mobile builds that are attacking it. Lack of mobility is a large thing that keeps Necromancer and specific other builds across the professions from being useful.

Yet despite the fact that movement is universally strong, they are removing the biggest way for immobile builds to compete. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t mind some kind of change. For example, if you use a 900 range movement skill and you are chilled, then you still move 900 units but you do so 66% slower than if you weren’t chilled. You still move the full range, but you don’t invalidate the only counterplay that immobile builds have. Either that, or you have to greatly increase the amount of pulls, otherwise professions like Necromancer are completely invalidated, they can’t catch up to anyone running away, and can’t stop anyone from running away, except other Necromancers.

I’m not sure why everyone is making such a big deal about this. They are simply changing the distance you travel so that it is the same whether you are fast or slow. You will still be slowed down though…so as long as your faster than the opponent, they won’t be able to get away any faster than usual.

skowcia.8257:

Well the OP mains warrior so its a quite nice buff for him. These changes are horrible and if they make it live all movement skills like rush need to be treated as rtl and give them double cd if they wont hit anything. I am fed up with thieves escaping from a losing fight, now i am supposed to watch baddie war escaping as well? The history repeats itself, first was ele who rtl away to be back within few seconds at full hp, now gs warriors will take that role running in/out at will.

Actually, I only really play War in duels now, and generally because people wanna fight the build in my sig. You’re more likely to find me playing Shatter Mes, Condi Engi, or MediGuard these days. Most of those builds will be hurt in some way by this change since their mobility isn’t based on leaps/rushes (I never used to Super Speed Rocket Boots).

That being said, you are right that this is a buff for double melee Warrior builds, which have never really been good outside of WvW roaming when loaded up with food.

Also, can we stop with this “Make it like RTL” garbage? Warrior and Ele are totally different classes and in WvW Warriors would just target a ambient mob to escape and keep the lower CD. The distance traveled will also be lower now because we tend to have swiftness on.

BurrTheKing.8571:

skowcia.8257:

Well the OP mains warrior so its a quite nice buff for him. These changes are horrible and if they make it live all movement skills like rush need to be treated as rtl and give them double cd if they wont hit anything. I am fed up with thieves escaping from a losing fight, now i am supposed to watch baddie war escaping as well? The history repeats itself, first was ele who rtl away to be back within few seconds at full hp, now gs warriors will take that role running in/out at will.

Actually, I only really play War in duels now, and generally because people wanna fight the build in my sig. You’re more likely to find me playing Shatter Mes, Condi Engi, or MediGuard these days. Most of those builds will be hurt in some way by this change since their mobility isn’t based on leaps/rushes (I never used to Super Speed Rocket Boots).

That being said, you are right that this is a buff for double melee Warrior builds, which have never really been good outside of WvW roaming when loaded up with food.

Also, can we stop with this “Make it like RTL” garbage? Warrior and Ele are totally different classes and in WvW Warriors would just target a ambient mob to escape and keep the lower CD. The distance traveled will also be lower now because we tend to have swiftness on.

I mean given that they’re 100% broken in roaming when loaded up with that food, I think its a reasonable complaint for people to have that we’re moving towards that direction instead of away from it.

Also regarding your comments on RTL, without swiftness rush will travel the same distance as RTL. Currently it travels 33% more than RTL with swiftness. The ambient thing is also junk. Finding yourself an ambient in the right direction at the right range exactly when you need comes maybe 1 time in 10. The vast majority of the time you are stuck with the extended cooldown. And why should warrior mobility skills be better than ele ones again? You’re saying things about class differences and the only thing that comes to mind is how much eles need mobility more.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Also, can we stop with this “Make it like RTL” garbage? Warrior and Ele are totally different classes and in WvW Warriors would just target a ambient mob to escape and keep the lower CD.

It seems that you say it’s easy to target an ambient mob for Warrior to escape? Great, then you shouldn’t be afraid for it to have the same treatment as RTL. Double cooldown if you miss the ambient mob. As you said, it barely affects warriors at all.

Linnael.1069:

BurrTheKing.8571:

skowcia.8257:

Well the OP mains warrior so its a quite nice buff for him. These changes are horrible and if they make it live all movement skills like rush need to be treated as rtl and give them double cd if they wont hit anything. I am fed up with thieves escaping from a losing fight, now i am supposed to watch baddie war escaping as well? The history repeats itself, first was ele who rtl away to be back within few seconds at full hp, now gs warriors will take that role running in/out at will.

Actually, I only really play War in duels now, and generally because people wanna fight the build in my sig. You’re more likely to find me playing Shatter Mes, Condi Engi, or MediGuard these days. Most of those builds will be hurt in some way by this change since their mobility isn’t based on leaps/rushes (I never used to Super Speed Rocket Boots).

That being said, you are right that this is a buff for double melee Warrior builds, which have never really been good outside of WvW roaming when loaded up with food.

Also, can we stop with this “Make it like RTL” garbage? Warrior and Ele are totally different classes and in WvW Warriors would just target a ambient mob to escape and keep the lower CD. The distance traveled will also be lower now because we tend to have swiftness on.

I mean given that they’re 100% broken in roaming when loaded up with that food, I think its a reasonable complaint for people to have that we’re moving towards that direction instead of away from it.

Also regarding your comments on RTL, without swiftness rush will travel the same distance as RTL. Currently it travels 33% more than RTL with swiftness. The ambient thing is also junk. Finding yourself an ambient in the right direction at the right range exactly when you need comes maybe 1 time in 10. The vast majority of the time you are stuck with the extended cooldown. And why should warrior mobility skills be better than ele ones again? You’re saying things about class differences and the only thing that comes to mind is how much eles need mobility more.

Warrior’s and Ele’s are two completely different classes.

Warrior doesn’t have access to skills like Lightning Flash that allow you to abuse the Z axis and totally bypass certain area. There’s also Mist Form. And before you bring up stances, it takes 3 of them to have the same effect.

Ele’s also have 20 skills as opposed to the Warrior’s 10. Yes, you can argue that some of those skills are weaker versions of other skills, but the fact still remains that RTL is a small part of an Ele’s kitten nal.

Overpowered? Really? I keep seeing this repeated over and over as if roaming is what the main focus of WvW is. While some parts of it are important, one or two guys getting away is not going to change the outcome of a WvW match. In group fights you’re more likely to see Hammer + Sword/Horn which has good mobility but is very “catchable.”

Also, with food + dogged march it’s rare for cripple/chill to do much against Rush in the first place, so actually it’s more of a nerf in some cases.

Oh, and even after the change Rush can still freak out and send you flying past your target. Giving it the same mechanic as RTL, a skill that is more reliable in terms of going towards your target, wouldn’t be fair unless they made it as reliable as RTL.

I would be more concerned with skills like Swoop, long range AND an evade.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Linnael.1069:

BurrTheKing.8571:

skowcia.8257:

Well the OP mains warrior so its a quite nice buff for him. These changes are horrible and if they make it live all movement skills like rush need to be treated as rtl and give them double cd if they wont hit anything. I am fed up with thieves escaping from a losing fight, now i am supposed to watch baddie war escaping as well? The history repeats itself, first was ele who rtl away to be back within few seconds at full hp, now gs warriors will take that role running in/out at will.

Actually, I only really play War in duels now, and generally because people wanna fight the build in my sig. You’re more likely to find me playing Shatter Mes, Condi Engi, or MediGuard these days. Most of those builds will be hurt in some way by this change since their mobility isn’t based on leaps/rushes (I never used to Super Speed Rocket Boots).

That being said, you are right that this is a buff for double melee Warrior builds, which have never really been good outside of WvW roaming when loaded up with food.

Also, can we stop with this “Make it like RTL” garbage? Warrior and Ele are totally different classes and in WvW Warriors would just target a ambient mob to escape and keep the lower CD. The distance traveled will also be lower now because we tend to have swiftness on.

I mean given that they’re 100% broken in roaming when loaded up with that food, I think its a reasonable complaint for people to have that we’re moving towards that direction instead of away from it.

Also regarding your comments on RTL, without swiftness rush will travel the same distance as RTL. Currently it travels 33% more than RTL with swiftness. The ambient thing is also junk. Finding yourself an ambient in the right direction at the right range exactly when you need comes maybe 1 time in 10. The vast majority of the time you are stuck with the extended cooldown. And why should warrior mobility skills be better than ele ones again? You’re saying things about class differences and the only thing that comes to mind is how much eles need mobility more.

Warrior’s and Ele’s are two completely different classes.

Warrior doesn’t have access to skills like Lightning Flash that allow you to abuse the Z axis and totally bypass certain area. There’s also Mist Form. And before you bring up stances, it takes 3 of them to have the same effect.

Ele’s also have 20 skills as opposed to the Warrior’s 10. Yes, you can argue that some of those skills are weaker versions of other skills, but the fact still remains that RTL is a small part of an Ele’s kitten nal.

Overpowered? Really? I keep seeing this repeated over and over as if roaming is what the main focus of WvW is. While some parts of it are important, one or two guys getting away is not going to change the outcome of a WvW match. In group fights you’re more likely to see Hammer + Sword/Horn which has good mobility but is very “catchable.”

Also, with food + dogged march it’s rare for cripple/chill to do much against Rush in the first place, so actually it’s more of a nerf in some cases.

Oh, and even after the change Rush can still freak out and send you flying past your target. Giving it the same mechanic as RTL, a skill that is more reliable in terms of going towards your target, wouldn’t be fair unless they made it as reliable as RTL.

I would be more concerned with skills like Swoop, long range AND an evade.

I can’t believe the whole “20 skills omg” thing is still thrown around like it means anything. Elementalists can load up their highest mobility set of 20 weapon skills and they’ll still have less mobility than warriors with 5.

It doesn’t take 3 utility skills to get the same effect as mist form. It takes 3 to get the same effect for 3 times as long while also not locking you out of your abilities at all the way mist form does. I dunno if you’re up to date on this but mist form is widely considered trash and nobody ever takes it. I can’t even believe you’re bringing it up as a strength of the class. That would be like me asking why the hell warriors get stomp.

Lightning flash is strong yes, but even with it warriors are still outrunning you on flat terrain, and honestly the comparative benefit of one flash on a 40s cd with no other utility, compared to all the stuff warrior has going for it right out of the gate? What did you just want the comparison to be 100% one-sided or something?

If your counterargument to roamers is going to be “less people care about this playstyle than do the one I play” then we might as well flush the whole PvP forum down the drain and go farm the shovel train.

Linnael.1069:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Linnael.1069:

BurrTheKing.8571:

skowcia.8257:

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I can’t believe the whole “20 skills omg” thing is still thrown around like it means anything. Elementalists can load up their highest mobility set of 20 weapon skills and they’ll still have less mobility than warriors with 5.

It doesn’t take 3 utility skills to get the same effect as mist form. It takes 3 to get the same effect for 3 times as long while also not locking you out of your abilities at all the way mist form does. I dunno if you’re up to date on this but mist form is widely considered trash and nobody ever takes it. I can’t even believe you’re bringing it up as a strength of the class. That would be like me asking why the hell warriors get stomp.

Lightning flash is strong yes, but even with it warriors are still outrunning you on flat terrain, and honestly the comparative benefit of one flash on a 40s cd with no other utility, compared to all the stuff warrior has going for it right out of the gate? What did you just want the comparison to be 100% one-sided or something?

If your counterargument to roamers is going to be “less people care about this playstyle than do the one I play” then we might as well flush the whole PvP forum down the drain and go farm the shovel train.

The 20 skill thing is just pointing out that there are almost no similarities between the two classes. Comparing RtL to Rush is just silly. Comparing it to Swoop? That makes a bit more sense, especially since Ranger and Warrior are surprisingly similar after their updates. Warrior and Ele though? Not really comparable.

No1 takes Mist Form? Really? It’s generally that, Cleansing Fire, or Arcane Shield. Also, while it’s not directly comparable to stances it’s a skill that makes you invulnerable, which is something that Warrior doesn’t have access to. Again, pointing out that the classes are nothing alike.

I can’t believe that we’re arguing about something being OP at “running away” when there are builds that can near perma stealth or have so much sustain that they don’t need to run away.

As for why Warrior mobility should be “better” that’s pretty easy. Warrior lack teleport’s/blinks like Guardians/Teef/Ele/Mes/Neco that allow them to abuse the Z axis. Maybe less of an issue in WvW, but in PvP that’s huge. It’s child’s play to outmaneuver a Warrior on many popular maps. With the addition of Slow, as I’ve said multiple times, I’m guessing ANet found that the amount of soft CC was too much and made melee classes too weak.

Maybe it’s a bad decision, I don’t know. What I do know is that none of us have played the game with Slow added in.

Should a disengagment skills not disengage?

BurrTheKing.8571:

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

Here we go again.

When a game does balance updates only every six months and does not player test those updates, every single update is super high stakes. Six months of broken gameplay is a very long time.

Players have no choice but to speak out on their predictions.

Saiyan.1704:

Should a disengagment skills not disengage?

Should a cripple skill not cripple?

As always this is just another conversation between warriors and the players that play the other 6/7ths of PvP as well..

Lord Kuru.3685:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

Here we go again.

When a game does balance updates only every six months and does not player test those updates, every single update is super high stakes. Six months of broken gameplay is a very long time.

Players have no choice but to speak out on their predictions.

In past updates they typically didn’t completely change the trait system and will soon add a new soft CC. Normally I would agree with you, but in this case we have no idea how slow will affect melee characters.

Saiyan.1704:

Should a disengagment skills not disengage?

Depends on if the skill is designed to engage from a distance and used to disengage or if its built to be used to disengage.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Lord Kuru.3685:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

Here we go again.

When a game does balance updates only every six months and does not player test those updates, every single update is super high stakes. Six months of broken gameplay is a very long time.

Players have no choice but to speak out on their predictions.

In past updates they typically didn’t completely change the trait system and will soon add a new soft CC. Normally I would agree with you, but in this case we have no idea how slow will affect melee characters.

Slow won’t affect melee any worse than anyone else. It increases cast time of skills, it doesn’t hinder your ability to move.

BurrTheKing.8571:

As for why Warrior mobility should be “better” that’s pretty easy. Warrior lack teleport’s/blinks like Guardians/Teef/Ele/Mes/Neco that allow them to abuse the Z axis. Maybe less of an issue in WvW, but in PvP that’s huge. It’s child’s play to outmaneuver a Warrior on many popular maps.

That’s a really good point, and may explain a lot of the differing views on mobility in general. Warriors are super mobile on flat terrain, but can easily be outmaneuvered when there’s a lot of useable Z-axis. PvP maps were designed to have a lot of Z-axis, while WvW maps tend to be mostly flat terrain (or Z-axis that you can’t port to because of pathing issues) – at least where a lot of the objectives are.

Maybe one solution would be to incorporate more Z-axis into the new WvW maps?

Bhawb.7408:

I’m not panicking, I’m reacting every bit reasonably. Movement skills in this game are already universally strong. In many cases they literally define whether a build can be played at a high tier or not, by whether that build has enough sources of mobility to distance itself from the also-mobile builds that are attacking it. Lack of mobility is a large thing that keeps Necromancer and specific other builds across the professions from being useful.

Yet despite the fact that movement is universally strong, they are removing the biggest way for immobile builds to compete. Don’t get me wrong, I wouldn’t mind some kind of change. For example, if you use a 900 range movement skill and you are chilled, then you still move 900 units but you do so 66% slower than if you weren’t chilled. You still move the full range, but you don’t invalidate the only counterplay that immobile builds have. Either that, or you have to greatly increase the amount of pulls, otherwise professions like Necromancer are completely invalidated, they can’t catch up to anyone running away, and can’t stop anyone from running away, except other Necromancers.

This encapsulates what I feel about the movement changes. These changes are going to really hurt classes with low mobility, and make it even more difficult for these classes to keep someone near them, or lock them down. The classes that go zooming around due to weapon skills, teleports, dashes, leaps, etc, have such a higher standing in pvp due to these mobility skills, which effectively render other classes useless.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Lord Kuru.3685:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

Here we go again.

When a game does balance updates only every six months and does not player test those updates, every single update is super high stakes. Six months of broken gameplay is a very long time.

Players have no choice but to speak out on their predictions.

In past updates they typically didn’t completely change the trait system and will soon add a new soft CC. Normally I would agree with you, but in this case we have no idea how slow will affect melee characters.

Slow won’t affect melee any worse than anyone else. It increases cast time of skills, it doesn’t hinder your ability to move.

I was thinking about this on my way home from work. Slow and quickness change the cast time of a skill by -+50%. For example if you cast rush with haste will you travel 1200 distance in 1.3s or only travel 923 distance. Same with slow. Will you travel 1200 distance in 3s or travel 1800 distance.

What we need is to have counterplay to all movement skills. If leaps are afected with cripple or chill, ports should be too.
There is no reason for only one kind of movement to be afected. So we have counter to only leaps?
If ports are to stay as they are now, then leaps need to get on the same level. Of course ports will still be superior.

Sigmoid.7082:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Lord Kuru.3685:

BurrTheKing.8571:

Can we try actually PLAYING the patch before we brandish our pitchforks please?

Here we go again.

When a game does balance updates only every six months and does not player test those updates, every single update is super high stakes. Six months of broken gameplay is a very long time.

Players have no choice but to speak out on their predictions.

In past updates they typically didn’t completely change the trait system and will soon add a new soft CC. Normally I would agree with you, but in this case we have no idea how slow will affect melee characters.

Slow won’t affect melee any worse than anyone else. It increases cast time of skills, it doesn’t hinder your ability to move.

I was thinking about this on my way home from work. Slow and quickness change the cast time of a skill by -+50%. For example if you cast rush with haste will you travel 1200 distance in 1.3s or only travel 923 distance. Same with slow. Will you travel 1200 distance in 3s or travel 1800 distance.

I think this is the actual reason for the changes to leaps, though ANet didn’t say as such. Right now, Slow would increase Leap distance because you would travel at the increased speed for a longer time. Quickness already reduces it.

I think the “speed boosts and reductions don’t affect leaps” is actually a byproduct of their work to normalize Quickness/Slow.

Im going to watch the chronomancer vid in super slow mo to get a glimps of how slow works and post back.

Edit:
They seem to just effect the animation so distance traveled should be the same just the speed is different. This explains some stuff with the changes since its a mechanic change due to normalization for these two things.

Sigmoid.7082:

Saiyan.1704:

Should a disengagment skills not disengage?

Depends on if the skill is designed to engage from a distance and used to disengage or if its built to be used to disengage.

That’s just it. Who’s to say you’re only suppose to use Fiery Great Sword as an engagement or disengagement only tool? Or better yet, a Thief’s Heartseeker. That skill is used as a dissengagement/speed even though it’s an attack. There are no rules to it because, playstyles.

Phaeton.9582:

Saiyan.1704:

Should a disengagment skills not disengage?

Should a cripple skill not cripple?

Compare the amount of Cripple, Chills and Slows classes will have access to in HoT. Mind you, Stuns and Immobilize effects are still in the game.

Are melee classes, especially Thieves, suppose to be sitting ducks by not able to disengage/engage? It sounds like a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Scissors is complaining because Paper is getting away.

There are no rules to it because, playstyles.

design=/= playstyles.
just cause something can be used to do something outside its intended design doesnt mean it still doesnt have rules and restrictions around what its intended use is supposed to be.

Sigmoid.7082:

There are no rules to it because, playstyles.

design=/= playstyle.

just cause something can be used to do something outside its intended design doesnt mean it still doesnt have rules and restrictions around what its intended use is supposed to be.

Judge’s Intervention requires a target to teleport.
Like many other skills, Hearseeker does not require a target to be used. If they specifically designed it to be a certain way, they would have made it so.

Who are you to say otherwise?

Let me use my Focus #5 to block three attacks instead of teleporting its burst effect. Because you said so.

Saiyan.1704:

Sigmoid.7082:

There are no rules to it because, playstyles.

design=/= playstyle.

just cause something can be used to do something outside its intended design doesnt mean it still doesnt have rules and restrictions around what its intended use is supposed to be.

Judge’s Intervention requires a target to teleport.
Like many other skills, Hearseeker does not require a target to be used. If they specifically designed it to be a certain way, they would have made it so.

Who are you to say otherwise?

Let me use my Focus #5 to block three attacks instead of teleporting its burst effect. Because you said so.

Focus #5 is actually a bad example since its clearly designed to do both. Again “just cause something can be used to do something outside its intended design doesnt mean it still doesnt have rules and restrictions around what its intended use is supposed to be.” I see no issue with skills having downsides depending on what their intended use is. Ride the lightning is a very specific example of this.

There is no need to be sarcastic because my opinion is different from yours.

Saiyan.1704:

Compare the amount of Cripple, Chills and Slows classes will have access to in HoT. Mind you, Stuns and Immobilize effects are still in the game.

Are melee classes, especially Thieves, suppose to be sitting ducks by not able to disengage/engage? It sounds like a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Scissors is complaining because Paper is getting away.

Again, Slow will have negligible effect on mobility. It only affects cast time, not movement.

And this is not a game of rock/paper/scissors where scissors is complaining paper is getting away. This is a case where scissors is complaining that both rock and paper can come and leave as they wish with scissors having very little they can do about it.

@Drarnor
Im not to sure on that. In the chrono video the Gristleback that gets slowed does everything in slow motion including movement. It may also turn out that slow and quickness are the things that effect leap speed now.

i.e you still move 1200 units with rush but instead of the normal 2s cast it takes 1.3s with quickness or 3s with slow to move that same 1200 units of distance. It would explain why movement conditions dont affect leaps not because of the changes to slow and quickness correctly having an effect on cast speed.

Sigmoid.7082:

@Drarnor
Im not to sure on that. In the chrono video the Gristleback that gets slowed does everything in slow motion including movement. It may also turn out that slow and quickness are the things that effect leap speed now.

i.e you still move 1200 units with rush but instead of the normal 2s cast it takes 1.3s with quickness or 3s with slow to move that same 1200 units of distance. It would explain why movement conditions dont affect leaps not because of the changes to slow and quickness correctly having an effect on cast speed.

I didn’t see the Gristleback actually moving that much in the video. The Chronomancer kited a lot, but the mob just turned around since it’s a ranged foe.

Saiyan.1704:

It sounds like a game of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Scissors is complaining because Paper is getting away.

This sounds more like the guy in the playground who just wants to play water.

…

Also it would be a rubbish game if paper did get away. Dem analogies.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Sigmoid.7082:

@Drarnor
Im not to sure on that. In the chrono video the Gristleback that gets slowed does everything in slow motion including movement. It may also turn out that slow and quickness are the things that effect leap speed now.

i.e you still move 1200 units with rush but instead of the normal 2s cast it takes 1.3s with quickness or 3s with slow to move that same 1200 units of distance. It would explain why movement conditions dont affect leaps not because of the changes to slow and quickness correctly having an effect on cast speed.

I didn’t see the Gristleback actually moving that much in the video. The Chronomancer kited a lot, but the mob just turned around since it’s a ranged foe.

It preforms the actions slower. The leaps and skills are actions are hence why i think they will be moving slower when doing a movement skill. We will have to see but i feel that is the most likely way its going to work.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Slow

It says it slows down animations so in theory this would massively affect leaps and rushing skills.

Honestly, this sounds REALLY strong and if comboed with Chill and Cripple it would basically bring the target to a halt.

Actually, thematically I think Slow would be cool on movement skills but also potentially OP. In the case of the Reaper, let’s not forget they have a way to chase down people that run from them and have skills like Spectral Grasp. Of course…this IS Necro we’re talking about so it might actually end up being weak.