Guild Wars 2

Greetings,

I know im probably going to get flamed for this, but i really feel as if the downstate just ruins some of the joy in pvp. I will list points as to why i do not firmly enjoy the downstate feature and you can either choose to agree, disagree or flame me if you like.

1. Solo pvp

It is almost impossible to win a 1 vs 2 (or more) when the players are around the same skill level as yourself. If you happen to put one of them into a downstate and have no utility to make yourself invulnerable to flag the person, their partner will either revive them or down you and waste your time because both of them will come out alive in the end. Sometimes i just want to go Rambo on some groups and at least take one person with me but cannot, due to this system. Solo play is just not happening unless you are of much higher skill than your opponents.

2. Profession downstate Imbalances

It is obvious that some professions have a clear advantage over others in downstate. I wont mention any names due to some people becoming easily offended so i will leave that up to you people to discuss.

3. Feels like a chore

I dont want to stay in one place for 10 (possibly more) seconds to flag one person just to be interrupted because the person doesn’t want to die.

To be honest i can live with this system, i am just not entertained by it. Remember, these are my opinions and so you can freely state your own, whether you enjoy the downstate feature or do not.

Thank you for your time.

There have been many threads on this already. I agree with you 100%. Lots of other people also agree but one argument I have heard supporting the downed state is that it counters the games insane burst in tournaments.

In my opinion it is boring, unbalanced and a terrible way to implement a counter to burst.

The game is balanced around team play not 1v1 or 1v2, good teams know how to stop some one from getting rez. The thing needs tweaking not getting rid off. DS is not going anywhere , can we stop with these threads please?

No, you shouldn’t be able to take one with you in your silly suicide attempt.

Doesn’t work that way. And it shouldn’t ever work that way.

Id wish they would remove it from everything besides PVE tbh but I don’ think they will.

My advice to you is, if you want to enjoy downed state, the best way is to embrace it. Tool yourself to be able to finish easily after a downing someone. Or pick up a CC to keep the rezzer of your victim.

Removing downstate would destroy Gw2 PvP. It is an essential mechanic (at least for tournament play), which should not be removed. I actually like the downed state; it creates a less cut and dry pvp.

Sorry OP, these threads are always pretty silly. If you don’t prepare for it then obviously it will seem like an annoying hindrance.

Niptease.8971:

Removing downstate would destroy Gw2 PvP. It is an essential mechanic (at least for tournament play), which should not be removed. I actually like the downed state; it creates a less cut and dry pvp.

Would you care to explain further?
you say it would destroy gw2 pvp.. how exactly?

Remove rally from PvP pretty please!

Bunzy.8674:

Niptease.8971:

Removing downstate would destroy Gw2 PvP. It is an essential mechanic (at least for tournament play), which should not be removed. I actually like the downed state; it creates a less cut and dry pvp.

Would you care to explain further?
you say it would destroy gw2 pvp.. how exactly?

I feel the downed state is an element that separates Gw2 from other mmo’s. It influences builds/trait decisions as well as team compositions, in the sense that, depleting your opponents health does not necessarily mean you’ve defeated them. If this were the case, and it has been mentioned before, tpvp would consist of all glass cannons. Removing the downed state would simplify the game to a level that would be unbearable. Sure, it’s annoying at times. However, 1/10, in the least, it can prove to be beneficial to you.

Jestersmiles.4365:

The game is balanced around team play not 1v1 or 1v2, good teams know how to stop some one from getting rez. The thing needs tweaking not getting rid off. DS is not going anywhere , can we stop with these threads please?

“The game is balanced around xy” sentences are wrong 9 out of 10 times. Why should the game be balanced around something that’s only enjoyable for a fraction of players and the rest is annoyed by it? That threads like these, where players repeatedly voice valid concerns, are not pointless, can be seen with the change to FOV, which eventually happened after many many complaints even though Anet stated many times they do not wish to change it.
To be honest, I don’t expect DS to be killed entirely in sPvP, but maybe there is a chance for an alternative format where DS does not exist, so players may choose which way to play and everyone can be happy.

Most of these downstate complains bares down to not being able to kill people off, but that’s exactly the point of the downstate. It adds excitement to the game. You just have to consider the downstate as part of the game, and learn, not only how to down a player, but also how to defeat a player. Always remember; a player is not dead, until he is defeated. If you down a player, he is only 75% dead.

My advice is to make a revive based build, and turn the downstate into a gain for your team.

Balancing around xy is not necessarily erroneous. Anet intends the game to become a team esport (whether they are capable or likely to achieve so, is another question), and thusly will gear balance toward teamplay.

With regard to teamplay being marginally enjoyable is, imho, due to various reasons, with the majority of them being deficient systems and lackluster features in place to streamline the trasition to and support of team-wise PvP games.

IMO I’m not too irked by downed state, but i’d rather have longer and more tactical fights than shorter simple fights that are only made more complex because of downed state.

Actual combat > downed state wars IMO.

Unfortunately from the sounds of things Anet actually likes the shallow burst twitch gameplay and downed state. Don’t think any of it is going to change anytime soon. Meh.

Niptease.8971:

Bunzy.8674:

Niptease.8971:

Removing downstate would destroy Gw2 PvP. It is an essential mechanic (at least for tournament play), which should not be removed. I actually like the downed state; it creates a less cut and dry pvp.

Would you care to explain further?
you say it would destroy gw2 pvp.. how exactly?

I feel the downed state is an element that separates Gw2 from other mmo’s. It influences builds/trait decisions as well as team compositions, in the sense that, depleting your opponents health does not necessarily mean you’ve defeated them. If this were the case, and it has been mentioned before, tpvp would consist of all glass cannons. Removing the downed state would simplify the game to a level that would be unbearable. Sure, it’s annoying at times. However, 1/10, in the least, it can prove to be beneficial to you.

I feel it’s more of a band aid for having overall more shallow combat. Other MMO’s make up for it with more complexity in the combat itself instead of downed players.

Struggling to finish someone off who’s low on Hp, who’s teammates (or self) are trying to save and counter you, or LOLBURST someone into downed state then try to finish them off by pressing F while their teammates try to counter you. The former involves actual combat, the latter is just about a 3 second cast and stability/cc.

It extends to PvE as well, just give bosses different simple one shot mechanics, and overpowered auto attacks and a ton of health, it’s fine though because of downed state, not nearly as interesting though.

I like the downstate mechanic, but I’d be all for making it the same for everyone.
1: attack, 2: single target stun/interrupt, 3: AoE stun/interrupt available after 10 seconds, 4: self heal.

only problem with downstates is that enemies rally on stomp.
So you are leading in a teamfight, downed 2 people but you can´t stomp them because they teleport around, then they down a class that can´t teleport and just stability stomp and rally the teleport champs turning the fight around becaus of this stupid mechanic.

Also conditions shouldn´t be removed when someone is down. It takes too long for condition classes to stack conditions again to prevent rezzing.

Blackjack.5621:

only problem with downstates is that enemies rally on stomp.
So you are leading in a teamfight, downed 2 people but you can´t stomp them because they teleport around, then they down a class that can´t teleport and just stability stomp and rally the teleport champs turning the fight around becaus of this stupid mechanic.

Also conditions shouldn´t be removed when someone is down. It takes too long for condition classes to stack conditions again to prevent rezzing.

.. Indeed. I have never saw it that way. You are totally right. Rally (probably) should go from stomps.

EDIT: Sure, with completely even downed skills that should be alright. However, some downed skills are so frustrating to deal with atm, that stomping shouldn’t rally. Stacked teams of eles, thieves, mesmers and guardiands have such a big advantage with their downed skills.

I like the downed state in PvP. It’s frustrating sometimes of course but it helps make the game more unique. If you spec your character appropriately the downed state can be a great advantage to you. For example the guardian has many skills to help reviving teammates as well as empowering his own downed state. This gives another avenue of specialization in character building, something I really like about this game – you can’t have a character that excels at everything.

My only complaints about downed state is the imbalance in downed skills between professions and that thieves can finish off downed players while under stealth (or at least they appear to for me, but that could just be my laggy connection).

I’ve never seen another game with downed state, and they do just fine. You want to know how to counter burst? Stun break and kite. What’s truly funny is downed state is almost essential for me in PvE, just because every boss I fight hits me like a truck, but this is PvP thread so i’ll keep it PvP. I have to run from every 2v1 because I have no cc. All down state does, in my opinion, is give more power to weaker and less skilled players. Then again, I like gw1 much better so maybe I’m a little biased. I guess I will just have to deal with it. Stinkin downed state :/

edit: I also wanted to ask why the hell all these warriors are destroying me in downed state and rallying themselves everytime before they get any kills. I don’t want to make a warrior to find out.

I never, ever say learn to play, so that’s not what this is. It does confuse me that people say that they are skilled enough to win a 1v2, but they can’t because of down state.

I rarely win 1v2s, but that’s because…you have to be really, really good to win them against anyone who’s played the game more than a couple hours. If you can find a way to down one of your opponents while saving an interrupt and a safe-finishing skill, you can win the 1v2. If not, they’ll rez up.

Certainly, some downed states are flat-out better than others. And people rally when some random guy they tagged across the map gets stomped. Not saying downed state is balanced, or bug-free, but it’s an overall fun idea.

I feel like the people who dislike the downed state are coming from other mmos and refusing to adapt their knowledge of cool down usage to work better with the downed state.

It’s very possible to burst someone down and turn a 1v2 into a 1v1, but you NEED to plan around downed state. All classes have ways to secure res/stomps when someone goes downed (except maybe necros who have to bug it).

Elementalists:
-Armor of Earth
-Mist Form

Warriors:
-Frenzy
-Balanced Stance
-Dolyak Signet

Rangers:
-Signet of the Wild (when traited)
-Quickening Zephyr
-Rampage as One

Necromancers:
-Foot in the Grave
-Pressing Shroud and stomp/res at the same time to shroud stomp/res (Most likely a bug).

Guardians:
-Stand Your Ground
-Hallowed Ground
-Virtue of Courage Traited for Stability

Thieves:
-Stealth
-Haste

Engineers:
-Toss Elixir S
-Elixir S
-Elixir U

Mesmers:
-Distortion
-Time Warp

All classes are decently equal at securing finishers, if they lack stability they usually have something else, only necros are probably the weak one in this regard. I would say Mesmers probably hold the best chance to 1v2 someone, you can burst them really quickly, drop a Timp Warp, distortion stomp and turn it into a 1v1. Not all classes downed states are equal, but aside from Elementalists, they all have counters. Rally range probably needs a fix, but overall it’s fine as a mechanic.

You can teleport to thieves mid stomp animation when they try and port away. Mesmers port randomly and they always have an arrow above their head, sometimes they’ll even stay close enough so that the stomp goes through regardless. All other downed states can be countered with a stability, stealth, or invulnerability stomp.

It’s how you pace your cool downs, if you have to use quickness (some builds do) to down someone in the first place, have a back up for when you finish them. It’s a tactical decision to whether drop all your cool downs during regular combat or have one up your sleeve during a pivotal moment when someone goes downed. Downed state is a neat mechanic once you make it play FOR you instead of playing against it. If you removed it, all you will ever see in PvP are burst thieves and shatter mesmers.

it should be removed asap, it makes absolutely no sense

want to stop burst builds? implement healer classes

Downed state is one of the best, if not the best part of GW2 pvp. It increases the team coordination and skill required by a large amount.

Had a downed guardian rally for no reason its cost the node take I had him beat rally up his help came and it turned into a 2 v 1 I dropped his thief buddy but could not stomp he healed the thief 2 v 1 again and I finally died.

Hate the downstate when I get sick of pvp it normally has to do with downing people in a 2 v 1 situation yet losing anyway due to down state.

Another aspect i would like to add about downstate, is that in some cases when a dot downs me while i am in an area where no enemies are, i attempt to heal myself which takes around 10 seconds to fully complete. Sometimes when i reach about 90% of being fully revived, an enemy comes in to down me. At this point i have just wasted about 20 seconds (possibly more depending on the situation) of doing nothing but trying to revive and attempting to stop the opposition from killing me. If i am unsuccessful in stopping my opponent i will also have to wait for the death timer which then makes me useless for about 30 seconds in total.

Imo i would rather just die instantly so that i may be actually in the game, helping my team.

xo wayne.6045:

Another aspect i would like to add about downstate, is that in some cases when a dot downs me while i am in an area where no enemies are, i attempt to heal myself which takes around 10 seconds to fully complete. Sometimes when i reach about 90% of being fully revived, an enemy comes in to down me. At this point i have just wasted about 20 seconds (possibly more depending on the situation) of doing nothing but trying to revive and attempting to stop the opposition from killing me. If i am unsuccessful in stopping my opponent i will also have to wait for the death timer which then makes me useless for about 30 seconds in total.

Imo i would rather just die instantly so that i may be actually in the game, helping my team.

That’s where the tactics of it come in. Look at it from the other side, you can hold off finishing your downed enemy and and prolong your numbers advantage.

I feel the downed state is loved by players who feel they need a second chance when fighting.

denyitbattle.2609:

Downed state […] increases the team coordination and skill required by a large amount.

Actually it’s quite the opposite — downed heavily favours the side with the greater numbers, not the greater skill.

Actual GW2 combat already takes plenty of skill, there’s no need to dilute and distract from it with a silly 4-skill mini-game.

Bunzy.8674:

I feel the downed state is loved by players who feel they need a second chance when fighting.

This. It’s a great mechanic for PVE but it doesn’t belong in PVP zones. People rallying off killing a bunny rabbit is not skill it’s farcical.

Niptease.8971:

Removing downstate would destroy Gw2 PvP.

Actually I would contend that downed state is what’s killing GW2 PVP.

Note that every other PVP game in existence has managed fine without downed state.

Downed state:

• favours numbers over skill.
• detracts from the real combat.
• promotes glass cannon specs
• prevents proper balancing of time-to-kill/time-to-live.
• is farcical in that players can rally from striking a grey rabbit.
• is farcical in that players can channel rez while standing in fire and being unloaded upon
• introduces a variety of exploits/bugs/imbalances that detract time from fixes/balances to the real combat

Personally I will not touch sPVP/tPVP while downed state exists there. I routinely run into others who feel the same, and judging by the number of hate posts about it, it’s clear it’s having a damaging effect.

mjharrison.3209:

denyitbattle.2609:

Downed state […] increases the team coordination and skill required by a large amount.

Actually it’s quite the opposite — downed heavily favours the side with the greater numbers, not the greater skill.

Actual GW2 combat already takes plenty of skill, there’s no need to dilute and distract from it with a silly 4-skill mini-game.

Depends on how you play it. If the smaller team pulls together, they can easily overcome the downed barrier and use it to their advantage. In fact, That happened a lot of times while I was playing today. When you think about it, Downed makes no more difference in combat then Rez skills did in GW1, just now everyone can perform the same rez.

mjharrison.3209:

denyitbattle.2609:

Downed state […] increases the team coordination and skill required by a large amount.

Actually it’s quite the opposite — downed heavily favours the side with the greater numbers, not the greater skill.

Actual GW2 combat already takes plenty of skill, there’s no need to dilute and distract from it with a silly 4-skill mini-game.

A silly 4-skill mini game. Couldn’t have described it better myself.

Dual.8953:

mjharrison.3209:

denyitbattle.2609:

Downed state […] increases the team coordination and skill required by a large amount.

Actually it’s quite the opposite — downed heavily favours the side with the greater numbers, not the greater skill.

Actual GW2 combat already takes plenty of skill, there’s no need to dilute and distract from it with a silly 4-skill mini-game.

Depends on how you play it. If the smaller team pulls together, they can easily overcome the downed barrier and use it to their advantage. In fact, That happened a lot of times while I was playing today. When you think about it, Downed makes no more difference in combat then Rez skills did in GW1, just now everyone can perform the same rez.

I disagree. Rez sig (standard pvp rez for gw1) brought someone back to life with full health in 3 seconds, and you didn’t have to be standing right next to the person who is usually in a huge aoe clusterkitten. Hehe I don’t mean kitten. Only downside was everyone only had one use on it, which was simply to make it fair. Now we get a ridiculous little game of cat and mouse that rewards zerg gameplay. Super fun.

looking at a glance, it seems that many of the people who don’t like downed state are getting themselves into situations where they are fighting alone against 2 or more enemies, or because the enemy has some teammates arrive to… help?

isn’t that the point of team play? doesnt down state reinforce that?

you can call it zerg gameplay or teamplay, it is what it is, and its fine imo.

Now rallying is a whole other discussion…

BringBackMonks.7068:

Dual.8953:

mjharrison.3209:

denyitbattle.2609:

Downed state […] increases the team coordination and skill required by a large amount.

Actually it’s quite the opposite — downed heavily favours the side with the greater numbers, not the greater skill.

Actual GW2 combat already takes plenty of skill, there’s no need to dilute and distract from it with a silly 4-skill mini-game.

Depends on how you play it. If the smaller team pulls together, they can easily overcome the downed barrier and use it to their advantage. In fact, That happened a lot of times while I was playing today. When you think about it, Downed makes no more difference in combat then Rez skills did in GW1, just now everyone can perform the same rez.

I disagree. Rez sig (standard pvp rez for gw1) brought someone back to life with full health in 3 seconds, and you didn’t have to be standing right next to the person who is usually in a huge aoe clusterkitten. Hehe I don’t mean kitten. Only downside was everyone only had one use on it, which was simply to make it fair. Now we get a ridiculous little game of cat and mouse that rewards zerg gameplay. Super fun.

Doesn’t have to be as mindless as you think. The strategy I see most is both sides pepper eachother with attacks until someone overextends. That person gets focused down, then the team either attacks the downed player to death or has a stomper go in while the team covers the stomper, then boom, then enemy is down one less enemy, get back to kiting. The strategy works on anything short of an ele, that 2 is pretty much a get out of dying free card in large battles. Well provided they didn’t over extend too much.

honestly, i’m sure its been brought up. But the downstate is fine. Its rally that complicates things. I always liked the down state in gears of war, but in that game there were certain abilitys to flat out kill a person too.

The rally creates situations where it could be 4on4, and 3 enemies are down but while that is happening a warrior hastes himself and quickly downs and kills one player, now its 4on3. This isnt a fun situation…i dont mind having to put myself in mellee range to finish someone off if i wanna do it quickly. Imo its a cool mechanic, rally however is annoying.

How about this:

• Downed State remains in sPvP and WvW
• In sPvP, only the closest ATTACKING player is rallied from an enemy’s defeat.
• In WvW, a maximum of 3-5 (depending on balance changes or whatever) are rallied from an enemy’s defeat.

The problem with the downed state right now is exactly that, you defeat ONE guy and your whole team gets up. Pretty lame. If you’re in a 5v5 and you down one but 4 of your teammates are downed, and you happen to get a flag off or just beat the guy to death, then the rest of your team gets up from the losing streak and is in an automatic 5v4 position.

I understand that ‘turning the tables’ is an interesting and fun mechanic, but the way its done in this game is just moronic. You shouldn’t be able to rally any and all enemies in a 5 mile radius because you died…

Redscope.6215:

How about this:

• Downed State remains in sPvP and WvW
• In sPvP, only the closest ATTACKING player is rallied from an enemy’s defeat.
• In WvW, a maximum of 3-5 (depending on balance changes or whatever) are rallied from an enemy’s defeat.

Somewhat this. Downed state isn’t the problem, it’s an entire team rallying at once due to one stomp that’s a problem.

Make stomping someone rally only ONE teammates (either the nearest target, or more likely, the target that has been downed the longest within range). Then it’s a 1-to-1 swap and benefits teams that can coordinate stomps.

Watching 3 enemies your team downed rally because only ONE of your teammates gets killed is just heart breaking…

{Oh, and make it so that killing critters in WvW doesn’t rally. People killing rabbits and moa’s to avoid dying it stupid.}

In defense of rally: it’s predictable. if the enemy has 2 down and you have 1, you know exactly what the stakes are and need to decide if you are capable of preventing the stomp on your guy.