Guild Wars 2

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Curse

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spinal_Shivers

+

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chill_of_Death

and then lets throw our 3 signets in there with our boon corrupt trait

thats ~9 boon corrupts every 20 seconds, and 1 boon corrupt every 1.5 seconds from your scepter auto so now your target doesn’t only have no boons they have about 12k dps worth of conditions on them that they have to clear and you didn’t even have to go into your death shroud or use the other 4 of your weapon skills, or anything in you alt weapon set.

Your target is now either dead, or has used their heal and all their condi clears and probably an evade or two. You know go into your death shroud or just use staff ect. and put that many condis on them again.

If your target is somehow still alive you probably messed up, but no worries all your boon corrupts are now off cooldown so we can just repeat the process.

Is this really healthy for the game anet? No offense to people who play minion master but like this change is rewarding your build way more than it should, its basically turret engi 2.0. Was necro even in a bad position at all before the patch? Last I checked they were in the meta and doing quite well, I really don’t think they needed this large of a buff.

I forgot about the other passive signet traits and Vamp Signet, so you actually have even more boon corrupts

Yes necro were in a bad position,if i remeber in the last pro league was just 2 necros.

that’s not a bad position, that means the class is at least playable, plus with bunker mesmer nerfed to the point that the entire class is no longer playable, and the change to diamond skin your class effectively got buffed without any changes to it

Necro has never bin in a good position, tho they may gonna abit overboard on Corrupts Necro/Reaper deserve some time in Meta. And u can counter a Reaper.

@OP

Why allow large amount of boon spam without large amount of boon removal/corrupt?

Every class has access to boon spam, only necro has access to this many boon corrupts. If every class had 9 boon corrupts then fine we can have a boon-less meta

Ravezaar.4951:

Necro has never bin in a good position, tho they may gonna abit overboard on Corrupts Necro/Reaper deserve some time in Meta. And u can counter a Reaper.

Alright then please tell me what currently counters a reaper? Diamond skin ele was about the only thing before that could 1v1 it, druid as well. However with the changes its an extremely hard 1v1 for druid and ele simply cant do it. In team fights it just corrupts the boons of everything around it and is tanky enough now to deal with the pressure.

Nighthawk.4687:

Ravezaar.4951:

Necro has never bin in a good position, tho they may gonna abit overboard on Corrupts Necro/Reaper deserve some time in Meta. And u can counter a Reaper.

Alright then please tell me what currently counters a reaper? Diamond skin ele was about the only thing before that could 1v1 it, druid as well. However with the changes its an extremely hard 1v1 for druid and ele simply cant do it. In team fights it just corrupts the boons of everything around it and is tanky enough now to deal with the pressure.

Thief with ease, Hammer Scrapper and Warriors, and Shortbow Rangers. I am not kidding about the last one.

Also, Spinal Shivers+Chill of Death don’t corrupt boons, they just remove them. Never mind that Spinal Shivers never gets used in PvP. Or really anywhere.

Yeah, linking chill of death kind of proves ignorance, but beyond that, a standard Signet reaper who uses a scepter and WH offhand really only gained the corrupt on auto which doesn’t happen nearly as often as you’d think. They weren’t heavily in the meta before and they’re trying to flesh out their anti-boon niche (where Mesmers actually outclassed them previously). More than anything the changes opened up more variety such as helping dagger mainhand/offhand and allowed curses back into use a bit more. Overall the changes didn’t do a whole lot to some of the most commonly used Reaper builds.

Reaper are kind of nice in that they are strong and have a heavy niche, but are still fairly easy to focus down (at least, since Blighter’s Boon Nerf). They’re your typical scary back-liner that you train down with a thief and move on.

The biggest buff to necros was amulet related, no trait/skill related imo, as ronpierce pointed buffs just make other options viable

Nobody uses Spinal Shivers, OP, because Focus sucks in general.

It’s kinda hard to look at Necromancers fairly because so much of what they do is dependent on what the other guy does. If all their power comes from boon corrupt, then there’s a meta answer to that- stop running boons. If there aren’t viable low-boon builds (though there are, with thieves as they are), then they should add some.

Corrupt on auto is silly IMO though, should’ve just been strip rather than corrupt. Possibly with “if a boon is stripped, apply another stack of Poison”.

Rym.1469:

Nobody uses Spinal Shivers, OP, because Focus sucks in general.

Don’t people still use the auto-Shivers trait in Spite?

But yeah, Necromancers are so dependent on Warhorn it’s silly.

Power Reapers as myself use the auto-spinal shivers in Spite yes but it strips boons not convert as ppl here said. no one uses Focus really so that spinal shivers is gone.

There are counters to Reapers as ppl aslo stated above, vs Condi Reapers there are perhaps fewer but Thief for sure.

Sarrs.4831:

Don’t people still use the auto-Shivers trait in Spite?

But yeah, Necromancers are so dependent on Warhorn it’s silly.

Yes, because the effects of the skill are great. The cast time (which the trait doesn’t have) is horrendous and not reflective of the actual power of the skill.

im not gonna claim anything op till we see how the meta shifts, nothing is for certain, and 1v1s are tricky vs some classes on a reaper, so its not like its an insta win

reaper and necromancer in general is still vulnerable to team focus because he does not have block/immune/dodge skills.

Silverthorn.8576:

reaper and necromancer in general is still vulnerable to team focus because he does not have block/immune/dodge skills.

And that’s what will hurt them competitively. They’re great 1v1, and that’s usually what dictates who is “OP” early in a patch. It’ll blow over I’d imagine as people get more organized.

I’d gladly reduce some chill damage or need some spite traits if it actually meant we’d get more diversity and finally some decent non-shroud blocks/evades.

ronpierce.2760:

Silverthorn.8576:

reaper and necromancer in general is still vulnerable to team focus because he does not have block/immune/dodge skills.

And that’s what will hurt them competitively. They’re great 1v1, and that’s usually what dictates who is “OP” early in a patch. It’ll blow over I’d imagine as people get more organized.

I’d gladly reduce some chill damage or need some spite traits if it actually meant we’d get more diversity and finally some decent non-shroud blocks/evades.

This ^.

Reaper didn’t need all those new ways to corrupt boons.

What it needed was team support skills (protection, AOE heals etc…) and ways to stay alive that don’t eat up life force.

I saw a very very good suggestion over a year ago for how they could overhaul the life force mechanic to make a very flexible & easily balanced f1-f5 system. It would have made the necro much better for team play & better balanced.

Sadly they have shown they are unwilling to truly overhaul the core problems that classes have & more often then not wont even look at touching traits, weapon skills & utility skills (the guardian is proof of that with 50% of theirs being outdated crap)

The signet trait should be nerfed either to only corrupt 1 boon (not 2) or to only give 1 stack of might (not 3). That is the only place a nerf (if it makes sense) would be good

Lordrosicky.5813:

The signet trait should be nerfed either to only corrupt 1 boon (not 2) or to only give 1 stack of might (not 3). That is the only place a nerf (if it makes sense) would be good

That and the boon corrupt on scepter needs to be moved to the number 2 ability.

Having boon corrupt on aa is just an insanely bad decision no matter how you look at it.

Having it on the number 2 means its an AOE but cannot be spammed and if someone is paying attention they can dodge it.

Necromancer hasn’t traditionally been very popular in pve or spvp until the recent changes. Wells + staff necro has always been meta in WvWvW zergs and it still serves that role of corrupting + provide pulsing AoE bursts very well. In fact I would argue that it is one of the best taggers for loot bags, among staff elementalists + staff guardians. So from WvWvW zerging perspective (which is one of my main game modes), necromancer really does not need any buffs. For roaming purposes necromancer has never been among the top choices, due its low mobility and viability when focus fired.

I think the recent buffs to dagger were good. Dagger #3 (Dark pact) and #5 (enfeebling blood) needed some buffs to justify their 25 s cooldown. Giving boon corrupt on scepter auto attack was a bit too much. I would have added the boon corrupt to scepter #3, feast of corruption instead of scepter #1. Even the name fits it well.

The Signets of Suffering GM trait is extremely strong and the staple of many necromancer builds. Reliable might stacking, boon corruption + reduction of signet cooldowns it feels as powerful HGH (which most engineers choose). Maybe the trait could be toned down a bit without making it useful e.g. corrupt just 1 boon instead of just 1. This would lead the cooldown reduction + might stacking still intact.

The base damage of the chill damage might need to be toned down by 25%, but not gutted down the drain since chill doesn’t stack. This would make it more or less useless in pure power builds (only about ~150 dmg/s), but I don’t see wrong about it. I would rather reduce the duration of chills, which necromancer can apply.

Necromancer still has many weaknesses:
- low mobility
- without reaper spec low access to stability
- lack of blocks or evades
- if life force is depleted, lack of sustain

And underwhelming skills/traits:
- “Suffer!”
- well of blood (too long CD for a heal)
- spectral grasp (too long CD to warrant taking it)
- life siphon healing scales way too badly with healing power. the scaling with healing power should be at least doubled

Beyond the fact that spinal shivers doesnt corrupt, it removes conditions, you have to think of the implications of having a boon corrupt on an autoattack. People like to make parallels to mesmer sword, but mesmer sword is a melee weapon, and the clones it make that rip are also melee. Make parallels to traited, phantasmal disechanter, which can remove around 1 boon a second, but same as having sword clones up, it represents a dps loss. Im not feeling the dps loss for necro here. Im not noticing the disadvantage to autoattacking, especially when one of the frequent targets is the stability to fear to chill to chilldamage route.

EremiteAngel.9765:

@OP

Why allow large amount of boon spam without large amount of boon removal/corrupt?

Boon removal is fine. Boon corruption is a lot more touchy.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The signet trait should be nerfed either to only corrupt 1 boon (not 2) or to only give 1 stack of might (not 3). That is the only place a nerf (if it makes sense) would be good

That and the boon corrupt on scepter needs to be moved to the number 2 ability.

Having boon corrupt on aa is just an insanely bad decision no matter how you look at it.

Having it on the number 2 means its an AOE but cannot be spammed and if someone is paying attention they can dodge it.

This would be a buff, not a nerf, in case you didnt know

Krysard.1364:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The signet trait should be nerfed either to only corrupt 1 boon (not 2) or to only give 1 stack of might (not 3). That is the only place a nerf (if it makes sense) would be good

That and the boon corrupt on scepter needs to be moved to the number 2 ability.

Having boon corrupt on aa is just an insanely bad decision no matter how you look at it.

Having it on the number 2 means its an AOE but cannot be spammed and if someone is paying attention they can dodge it.

This would be a buff, not a nerf, in case you didnt know

yeah a pretty decent one considering it isnt too often we finish full auto chains with scepter, despite popular belief.

My thing is that I think it’s healthy. I havent played as a necro yet in the new patch, just Mes and thief, but boon spam is worse. And i mean spam. pressing buttons the moment you can for the attack and boon, like old ele with cele and rev. Necro counters them now, hard, which is good I think.

Here is the deal. You cant corrupt boons the enemy doesnt have. If the enemy player is careful about their skills and dont give themselves to many boons, then the necro is at a condition dps loss by using their boon coppurtion traits and skills for other utility. Ive had no problem beating a necro as a thief. I make sure not to give myself,m boons, as hard as it can be, and its not 100 percent avoidable but thats what condi clear is for. Builds that counter corrupt necro are builds that dont depend on boons. These builds are rare, boons have been what the meta is always about though from what ive seenl and im glad there is something working against it now. If it is over done they might wanna tone it down but otherwise all the nee corrupt options should remain available.

ronpierce.2760:

Krysard.1364:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Lordrosicky.5813:

The signet trait should be nerfed either to only corrupt 1 boon (not 2) or to only give 1 stack of might (not 3). That is the only place a nerf (if it makes sense) would be good

That and the boon corrupt on scepter needs to be moved to the number 2 ability.

Having boon corrupt on aa is just an insanely bad decision no matter how you look at it.

Having it on the number 2 means its an AOE but cannot be spammed and if someone is paying attention they can dodge it.

This would be a buff, not a nerf, in case you didnt know

yeah a pretty decent one considering it isnt too often we finish full auto chains with scepter, despite popular belief.

And that an on demand AoE boon corrupt is way better than waiting few secs in order to be able to corrupt smth, theres no boon corrupt strats/burst/whatever involved around this. With this change you are able to quickly react to a stab/resistance, with chain not at all

A lot of these changes were needed for reaper to have good build diversity in the meta, as well as being useful in general.

That being said I do think that because anet made such extreme measures to remove tempest/chronomnacer bunkering, I think that the necro should have received some slight shaves to compensate for their additional boon corruption.

Basically lower the damage on deathly chill by a small amount, down by about 100 per tick and maybe make some of the new boon corruption skills conditional on having boons, like the boon removal and damage mod on Mesmer sword auto. Maybe have the scepter auto only poison if there are no boobs on the target. I think stuff like that would be fair.

Yes! The tears! Let them flow freely! I used to be a necro main, and as soon as I saw these changes I knew there would be some qq down the road. I’m not saying it isnt warranted. Necro is pretty strong now, and honestly, as much as it pains me to say as a now engi main, I hope they stay that way for a bit. Necro has been subpar for a long time, so its about friggen time they got some spotlight.

nearlight.3064:

Basically lower the damage on deathly chill by a small amount, down by about 100 per tick and maybe make some of the new boon corruption skills conditional on having boons, like the boon removal and damage mod on Mesmer sword auto. Maybe have the scepter auto only poison if there are no boobs on the target. I think stuff like that would be fair.

Yes! And if the target has big boobs, they should should get poison and torment!

Another thread by someone who hasn’t played any games as necro and has no idea about the class. I can’t believe that after 3 years the ranger and the necro are considered OP. What crazy times.

Riranor.6315:

My thing is that I think it’s healthy. I havent played as a necro yet in the new patch, just Mes and thief, but boon spam is worse. And i mean spam. pressing buttons the moment you can for the attack and boon, like old ele with cele and rev. Necro counters them now, hard, which is good I think.

Here is the deal. You cant corrupt boons the enemy doesnt have. If the enemy player is careful about their skills and dont give themselves to many boons, then the necro is at a condition dps loss by using their boon coppurtion traits and skills for other utility. Ive had no problem beating a necro as a thief. I make sure not to give myself,m boons, as hard as it can be, and its not 100 percent avoidable but thats what condi clear is for. Builds that counter corrupt necro are builds that dont depend on boons. These builds are rare, boons have been what the meta is always about though from what ive seenl and im glad there is something working against it now. If it is over done they might wanna tone it down but otherwise all the nee corrupt options should remain available.

First thieves have absolutely no reliance on boons. Second thieves hardcounter necros. Third saying just don’t use boons to eles and specially revs is like saying " just don’t dodge" to a thief.

yeah reaper is top OP right now and then druid, rev, scrapper follows right behind.
becuz reaper is too perfect, they have 1200ranged perma chill+condis for ranged fight and rampage like perma-stability for melee fight as well.

Riranor.6315:

My thing is that I think it’s healthy. I havent played as a necro yet in the new patch, just Mes and thief, but boon spam is worse. And i mean spam. pressing buttons the moment you can for the attack and boon, like old ele with cele and rev. Necro counters them now, hard, which is good I think.

Here is the deal. You cant corrupt boons the enemy doesnt have. If the enemy player is careful about their skills and dont give themselves to many boons, then the necro is at a condition dps loss by using their boon coppurtion traits and skills for other utility. Ive had no problem beating a necro as a thief. I make sure not to give myself,m boons, as hard as it can be, and its not 100 percent avoidable but thats what condi clear is for. Builds that counter corrupt necro are builds that dont depend on boons. These builds are rare, boons have been what the meta is always about though from what ive seenl and im glad there is something working against it now. If it is over done they might wanna tone it down but otherwise all the nee corrupt options should remain available.

Let me get this straight…. your genius idea to counter this is to tell professions dependent on boons by design not to be? Did you per chance ever play ele?

well i would like to not get boons, unfortunately any kittenty traitline and skill of my class i use is giving me boons and i cant stop that only because i see a necro on me and… oh wait i have to deactivate my traitline… o kitten i’m in combat gg im full of condi i lost.

And for those who says warrior counter necro… you never played warrior.
This was true maybe one year ago, while necro was suffering heavy CC pressure of the war… now you know what? reaper has even more stab than warrior lol

Love this, for months people whine and complain about the insane bunker meta. Anet finally takes a step in the right direction and creates counter for it. Finally Necro does well what it was intended to do well from the beginning, corruption.
We havent been the Condi kings for years, we havent been the hardest hitting powerwise for years, instead we have sat on the backlines watching other classes being hailed as more “optimal”.
Now we have a place, a role, a purpose that we do better then any other class now. It isnt the appliance of condis nor straight up dps, yet we turn other class’s strengths against them.
We still cant avoid damage, we still arent the dps masters.
Yet when we rise up to have a place in meta everyone suddenlly loses their minds at the prospect of having to learn to fight a new enemy rather then getting that free kill Necromancer used to be.
Reaper gave us hope, we still have major weakness like any other, unlike previous bunker mesmer and the insane point dps DH had.
This is truly a learn to play issue, I personally will walk away from this game if Anet listened to the QQ and nerfs us BACK out of meta possibility where we were BEFORE.

This is how Necro was intended to be, learn to fight us, and let us finally have that moment of glory every other class has enjoyed in the past, turret engi , medi guard, bearbow ranger, thief (newly returned), mesmer, PU and bunker, Hambow war, Cele Ele. Some of those were meta for years.
Necro with Reaper is the most balanced and near perfect of them all, the problems are with the other classes and their elites, not us.

Shala.8352:

well i would like to not get boons, unfortunately any kittenty traitline and skill of my class i use is giving me boons and i cant stop that only because i see a necro on me and… oh wait i have to deactivate my traitline… o kitten i’m in combat gg im full of condi i lost.

And for those who says warrior counter necro… you never played warrior.
This was true maybe one year ago, while necro was suffering heavy CC pressure of the war… now you know what? reaper has even more stab than warrior lol

It’s for this reason, I wish the signet trait only removed boons instead of converted them. I feel like if there were to be any corruption, it should be in the curses tree. Plus Spite already outshines much of the alternatives as it is. I’d rather leave the new base-corrupts and remove the ones that actually cause a problem, and a heavy loaded trait that’s beyond over used. Just my 2 cents, if boon corruption were to be toned down, I’d prefer it to be hit in spite than anywhere else.

Also we generate almost no boons at all, instead we apply conditions to ourselves even. Makes sense to have a way to compensate for that as there is no other class that has to deal with such a weakness.
Everyone wants to deny us the dps of thief and the condi power of Engi/burn ele.
So were would thag leave us? We have to be strong somewhere.

MomentOS.2831:

Also we generate almost no boons at all, instead we apply conditions to ourselves even. Makes sense to have a way to compensate for that as there is no other class that has to deal with such a weakness.
Everyone wants to deny us the dps of thief and the condi power of Engi/burn ele.
So were would thag leave us? We have to be strong somewhere.

You’ll be strong by having 2 life bars, and you’ll like it! You WANT to be hit. Kappa. :P

ronpierce.2760:

MomentOS.2831:

Also we generate almost no boons at all, instead we apply conditions to ourselves even. Makes sense to have a way to compensate for that as there is no other class that has to deal with such a weakness.
Everyone wants to deny us the dps of thief and the condi power of Engi/burn ele.
So were would thag leave us? We have to be strong somewhere.

You’ll be strong by having 2 life bars, and you’ll like it! You WANT to be hit. Kappa. :P

We also start off every match with half our class mechanics inaccessible until the fight starts. The second life bar doesnt even exist at the beginning which is one of the most critical points of a match.
All I see is people complaining that they lost their punching bag. Not that I am a pushover before these buffs :P In fact one of my Necro friends who is one of the best there is has gone back to Base Condi Necro and simply doesnt lose even vs Reapers.

MomentOS.2831:

ronpierce.2760:

MomentOS.2831:

Also we generate almost no boons at all, instead we apply conditions to ourselves even. Makes sense to have a way to compensate for that as there is no other class that has to deal with such a weakness.
Everyone wants to deny us the dps of thief and the condi power of Engi/burn ele.
So were would thag leave us? We have to be strong somewhere.

You’ll be strong by having 2 life bars, and you’ll like it! You WANT to be hit. Kappa. :P

We also start off every match with half our class mechanics inaccessible until the fight starts. The second life bar doesnt even exist at the beginning which is one of the most critical points of a match.
All I see is people complaining that they lost their punching bag. Not that I am a pushover before these buffs :P In fact one of my Necro friends who is one of the best there is has gone back to Base Condi Necro and simply doesnt lose even vs Reapers.

Who is this necro that is one of the best there is? Had he played base necro in tournaments?

honestly what makes necro so broken is mostly the Aimbot functionality
yoou know on your settings called Snap Cast to target making all of your aoe skills automatically land on yoour target combine that with Unblockable marks and thre’s youor problem theres literally no way to counter or defend against condi necro/reaper

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Let me get this straight…. your genius idea to counter this is to tell professions dependent on boons by design not to be? Did you per chance ever play ele?

No, what I am saying is that the boon reliance in the meta is what lead to this, and classes that relied on boons are flawed in design. If your class sucks now that boon corruption exists, it’s not the boon corruption. Anet should tone down the importance and boon and buff the classes that rely so heavily on them after toning down the boons.

Archon.6480:

nearlight.3064:

Basically lower the damage on deathly chill by a small amount, down by about 100 per tick and maybe make some of the new boon corruption skills conditional on having boons, like the boon removal and damage mod on Mesmer sword auto. Maybe have the scepter auto only poison if there are no boobs on the target. I think stuff like that would be fair.

Yes! And if the target has big boobs, they should should get poison and torment!

Human female meta down the drain.

NeXeD.3042:

MomentOS.2831:

ronpierce.2760:

MomentOS.2831:

Also we generate almost no boons at all, instead we apply conditions to ourselves even. Makes sense to have a way to compensate for that as there is no other class that has to deal with such a weakness.
Everyone wants to deny us the dps of thief and the condi power of Engi/burn ele.
So were would thag leave us? We have to be strong somewhere.

You’ll be strong by having 2 life bars, and you’ll like it! You WANT to be hit. Kappa. :P

We also start off every match with half our class mechanics inaccessible until the fight starts. The second life bar doesnt even exist at the beginning which is one of the most critical points of a match.
All I see is people complaining that they lost their punching bag. Not that I am a pushover before these buffs :P In fact one of my Necro friends who is one of the best there is has gone back to Base Condi Necro and simply doesnt lose even vs Reapers.

Who is this necro that is one of the best there is? Had he played base necro in tournaments?

Wont just throw his name out here publicly so I pmed it to you.

Gotta be honest I just wanted to make sure that you were talking about a wvw hero. Very different playstyle compared to pvp, and 2 years ago when I made the real transition out of wvw I too thought I was great because I could kill people in 1v1s, but my teams still lost even though was winning fights, problem was I wasn’t winning them fast enough, I wasn’t rotating out fast enough, I thought I was so good I would jump into 1vx fights might even kill one but I’d still lose the point.

Point is don’t make outrageous claims that don’t have proof, just because he’s a good dire perplex necro in wvw, doesn’t mean he will even be ruby level in pvp.

Also your pm, everyone and there mother has killed and abjured member at this point, it happens, yet even though I won a fight or two team still lost 500-100 or something like that.

Despite necros only getting a minor adjustment that actually doesn’t change their builds or gameplay significantly, they’ve now become the new bunker mesmers or dragon hunters. What people consider OP on these forums doesn’t make any sense.