Guild Wars 2

It’s getting annoying how everyone jumps towards condi builds. Can we please just nerf all of them. Make invuln and toughness affect conditions, cap them at 5 stacks and make it so you can only have 3 different conditions at the same time in pvp. Make it so the highest stack gets always priorized by cleanses.

And while we are at it reduce cc and boon spam.

Yeah, nerf Conditions in a Power meta!

There’s already a lot of skills, builds and even classes that Totally counter conditions. Every decent build in this game can obtain enough condi clean to fight a condition build or enough damage to just burst down a condi build before the condi stack grow too much.

Reduce stack to 5 will make Bleed inflict a top damage of 500/sec… wow, what an amazing damage! Poison will do even worst! Confusion will become barely useless against a decent player!
Amazing suggestions…

Conditions are affected by almost everything that affect Power skills (blind, block, total immunity, evade, more…), the only different thing is that you need to dodge/block the skills Before you feel too much damage. When the enemy stacked too much conditions on you is already too late to active a block. That’s the difference.
Also there’s a invulnerability against condition damage: Resistance Totally negate conditions effects and damage.
You also have condition clean/reduction skills, traits, runes and sigils to fight a condition build.

About Toughness, conditions don’t obtain any kind of benefit from Precision or Ferocity. Grant precision and ferocity affect also conditions and then I’ll be ok to make toughness affect conditions too.
But that’s a really Old Old Old discussion.

What’s your rank, class and your build?
Maybe we can offer you some tips to counter your so hated conditions.

Anyway don’t worry, higher is your rank lower is the amount of condition builds you’ll find on your matches.
But at low ranks players have not enough experience to play against some different good condition builds like burn guardian, condi engi and condi warrior.

Lets nerf condi then shall we while taking a look at whether or not affect meta classes in PVP

Revenant – power based not affected
Theif – power based not affected
Engi – Power based not affected
Druid – power based not affected
ele – power based not affected
Guardian – not meta power based mostly not affected
warrior – not meta
necro – will be affeted, high power boon strip alt available
mesmer – will be affected

Very interesting, by your comment its clear what class youve just been beaten by and you are now coming to the forums to vent your frustration.

It´s about facing one or two condi builds per match on the oposing team. Mostly mesmers are condi .. What a surprise … Then splash in condi war, necro and burn guard. Barley encounter other condi builds in EU gold. So basically mesmers make about 50% of the condi oponents i encounter …

Wolfric.9380:

It´s about facing one or two condi builds per match on the oposing team. Mostly mesmers are condi .. What a surprise … Then splash in condi war, necro and burn guard. Barley encounter other condi builds in EU gold. So basically mesmers make about 50% of the condi oponents i encounter …

Wouldnt that suggest Condi builds are underpowered?

Tbh its not the damage that makes condi mesmer a tough fight, its the sustainability but there are counters which once you have got down they become manageable.

some really basic points from me about each class

warrior – dodge their mace F1 everytime and you will win blindfolded
Guardian – anyhting below platinum and there is an almost 0% chance that the player will cover their burns making them extremely easy to avoid/cleanse (last on first off)
Mesmer – dodge just before their first shield block channel ends, you’ll stop them from summoning their defensive phantasm (just make sure you were the one to hit them)

Necro being the one that i have most trouble with however my 1v1 capability has improved ten fold after dueling a friend of mine who’s really good on it about 200 times over the past week. but its not the condi i had trouble with it was the boon corruption

The majority of games played aren’t played by 5 man teams in voice chat.

It is there where Condi damage can be managed by proper team cleanses & healing. That is the ONLY place where you can manage this game’s current condition damage.

Now in the majority of games where you don’t have that option (not even in ranked) you do not have the proper tools to deal with it. This is where you are seeing Condi Revs, Condi Thieves, Burn Guards, Condi Rangers, Condi Engi, and yes even Condi Ele at times in the games loading up people with more conditions than 1-2 people can deal with.

The fact that these condition builds are easily applying conditions that 100-0 you with little to no skill required is a problem. Anet needs to make changes accordingly game wide.

Condi is a fix to the boring power-bunker-stun meta. “nerf” is never a solution, diversity is. u should be more diverse and think of some anti-condi button. and is very simple since condi builds, requires “constructon” to stack significantly amount of condi. To necro stack 30 bleed on someone isnt just press 1 button.

I play druid and I have no problem with these Overpowered builds you speak of. condi druid is a bit of a joke if you ask me. it has no sustain and little dps outside of using traps. which just make it even more susceptible to gank

RedCobra.7693:

Necro being the one that i have most trouble with however my 1v1 capability has improved ten fold after dueling a friend of mine who’s really good on it about 200 times over the past week. but its not the condi i had trouble with it was the boon corruption

Necro effective condi, sacrifice defense or power, and become a paper, pure condi necro they have 0 stab and range. Just stick to them. Their only condi that do real damage is bleed.

However, necro is more powerful combat support class 2×2 or more. So the tactic is to kill the necro first. Especially if you have a warrior on your team, the warrior should take care of perma-stun the necro.

2×2 (or more numbers) fights against a team with a necro, and your team has no focus, is to ask the necro to kill them all slowly.

My main pro pvp is a necro, but I have not used the goal for months, my build is hybrid and extremely efficient, I sacrificed condition-damage.

RedCobra.7693:

I play druid

That’s all i needed to see.

RedCobra.7693:

I play druid and I have no problem with these Overpowered builds you speak of. condi druid is a bit of a joke if you ask me. it has no sustain and little dps outside of using traps. which just make it even more susceptible to gank

Yeah, cause the best tank (who also needs nerfs) atm can withstand the condispam, the condispam is fine. rofl

I dont understand. i offer an alternative and you whine about that being OP too. you know guys not everything is overpowered that beats your zerk build with 0 condi removal.

okay then try a resistance stacking warrior and duel condi classes

Can we stop flaming each other for what classes and rank we have? I want to adress the condi issue by principle, not personally…

An if you are curious what I play: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejm2tehldp2vlvd/04.07.17.png?dl=0

I actually think a better solution is to reduce the condi damage over all, but allow condi’s to crit and then provide amulets that have condi dmg and +crit so it takes 2 stat groups to make condi strong, similar to the power builds.

MasterD.4790:

I actually think a better solution is to reduce the condi damage over all, but allow condi’s to crit and then provide amulets that have condi dmg and +crit so it takes 2 stat groups to make condi strong, similar to the power builds.

condis need yet 2 stat groups: condi power and condi duration , condi duration is les usefull due to the insane amount of cleanses
the fix to condi play is reduce the condi kittenload bombing (less acces to diferent condies for class)and reduce the insane amount of cleanses making more a stacking single max two condies play and less condi kittenload burst

Condi duration doesn’t matter in pvp because people just die in a couple of seconds if they don’t cleanse. One of the problems.

Adrenalin.5719:

Condi duration doesn’t matter in pvp because people just die in a couple of seconds if they don’t cleanse. One of the problems.

Dire doesn’t exist in sPvP so arguing about the number of necessary stats is irrelevant.

Condi builds are far squishier than power builds for every class except Mesmers.

Crinn.7864:

Dire doesn’t exist in sPvP

Yeah, that is the problem tho. You don’t need it for pvp because carrion just works fine anyways.

Condi builds are far squishier than power builds for every class except Mesmers.

Not really. They don’t have to care for cleanses when facing power.

Adrenalin.5719:

Crinn.7864:

Condi builds are far squishier than power builds for every class except Mesmers.

Not really. They don’t have to care for cleanses when facing power.

You really don’t understand.

If you take any given class, and compare that class’s power build to it’s condi build, the power build is notably harder to kill than the condi version. The only exception to that rule is mesmers.

Adrenalin.5719:

Condi duration doesn’t matter in pvp because people just die in a couple of seconds if they don’t cleanse. One of the problems.

condi duration not matter much because: insane amount of cleanses== if not bursty not viable condis===toxic gamemode if 2 or more go condis and no cleanbots near(if cleanboot condi players disabled).

first step to fix condies is hardnerfing the cleanbots like ele, after this condies can be toned down to be a more strategic gameplay based in staking and sustaining stacks

megilandil.7506:

condi duration not matter much because: insane amount of cleanses== if not bursty not viable condis===toxic gamemode if 2 or more go condis and no cleanbots near(if cleanboot condi players disabled).

first step to fix condies is hardnerfing the cleanbots like ele, after this condies can be toned down to be a more strategic gameplay based in staking and sustaining stacks

First step is to buff the cleanses so power can 1v1 condi without an elebot.

Adrenalin.5719:

First step is to buff the cleanses so power can 1v1 condi without an elebot.

power builds already do that.

Although I’m somewhat confused as to why you are constantly generalizing things into “condi” or “power” builds. The 1v1 capabilities are going to vary wildly between classes regardless of damage type. Power Necro is a better 1v1 build than condi necro, but condi Mesmer is better 1v1 build than power Mesmer.

Damage output condi and phisical will get increased with next expansion to make the new classes desirable…

expect to play against of loads of fire stacks in a very fast rotation base game….the spam will be far worse than we already have, that is how ANet has been “improving” the class prograssion.

ANet should nerf condis for to work on well made ganks/spikes only and should bring back Hexes….. cause they already failed with this condi based system since they are making the game classes pve based in 1st place….

ugrakarma.9416:

Condi is a fix to the boring power-bunker-stun meta. “nerf” is never a solution, diversity is. u should be more diverse and think of some anti-condi button. and is very simple since condi builds, requires “constructon” to stack significantly amount of condi. To necro stack 30 bleed on someone isnt just press 1 button.

Except that the condi change was introduced with the HoT specializations. By removing condi out of the way people will play around with HoT builds.

Not to mention a ton of the HoT specs provide a lot of condi cleanse. Nerfing condi stacking would allow for core builds to shine more.

Conditions work fine.
There’s a large amount of ways to counter condition application and/or damage.

Play against Conditions require different things than play against Power. Power damage is immediate and you see the skills hit you, feeling the timing of the enemy easier.
Conditions work in a different way: if you feel the damage is already too late. You have to active your defensive skills in a preventive way if you have enough skills to make a complete defence against them. You can also wait for the end of the enemy condi combo, cleaning all his condis at once (every good build have a skill to clean a decent amount of conditions at once). You can chose your way to fight conditions but if you make the enemy miss you the enemy will not inflist too much stacks of damage and you will not be under his pressure. If the enemy succesfully make a condi bomb on you is because you let him active at last 5 skills on you.
To stack a significant amount of conditions different classes need to: mesmer need to spam clones/phantasm (expecially from the staff), active his scepter 3 and F2 (some condi builds don’t even active the Fx to keep they’re clones alive, then if you kill them the mesmer lose a lot of damage); anyway a mesmer need some time to stack a reasonable amount of conditions on you.
The necro main condition damage is Reaper Shroud 5+4, the easiest combo to evade ever made. If you have Swiftness you can just dodge the stun for the RS5 and the run away, evading all the Rs4 without any problem; to do that combo the necro need 4 seconds, have to stay in the icefield and don’t be interrupted (eventually “wasting” the stability to be able to make that combo).
The warrior just spam F1, then if you dodge the first hit or active a movement skill you make the enemy miss his hit and waste adrenaline and time. A dodge with a teleport or a good movement skill can grant you an insane advantage against the warrior, unable to active movement skills (expecially because the condi build play Mace/Shield + LB)
The guardian to make his full combo need to active the scepter 3+2, torch 4 (eventually two time if have the trait but is based on the build), judge’s Intervention, purging Flames and then swap to sword and use sword 2+3. 7 strong skills with a weapon swap to inflict his burst and if you active a block, invul, resistance, or clean all the burn at once (even with a bad condi clean skill because the guardian don’t inflict so much conditions) the enemy guardian lose all his damage for a while, becoming unable to inflict any good damage.
And that’s for all the other classes and builds.
You have to active different strong skills to obtain all that Op damage, you can’t obtain that from 2 skills coming from nowhere. If you have a little knowledge of the other classes you can see that there’s different skills to active and combos to do to stack enough conditions to kill someone. With some classes may be easier and with otehrs harder, but you need to active a lot of skills (or two but slow and easy-to-avoid skills like for the necro). A Power necro can inflict from a single gravedigger up to 8k of istant Power damage but will never be able to inflict so high damage from a single condition skill. That’s for more or less all the classes.

There’s a reason if almost all the Meta builds use Power instead of Condi. That’s not because Metabattle and Pro make preferences on the source of damage, is because have a strong istant damage is better than a strong damage (eventually higher) that should be ignored by Resistance or Cleaned by the enemy player/team. Also with Power you need more stats on your amulet but also Lesser Traits to make it work. In almost all the builds I see in this game if you want to play condi you need to invest hugely in traits to do that.
Basicly, if you play a Power build you have your Class Mechanic Traitline, the Elite traitline and the Defensive traitline, but if you play Condi your have your Class Mechanic and Elite traitline plus your Condition traitline, making you lose your Defensive traitline.

Condition damage is an alternative to Power and nothing more. it add variability on the game and is good as it is.
maybe the mesmer have to be toned down a little but not in the damage, only in the survavibility. A good mesmer will never make you able to catch him easy, granting him all the time he need to stack torment and confusion and kill you with conditions. Is not really a problem of condi burst, is more a problem of survavibility and condi application over time. But if you kill the clones you reduce his damage by a large amount.

You can tell the people that use con specs as a crutch, the write page long replies in a effort to defend it.

It’s rather amusing honestly, It’s like they think we don’t know there is this thing called a combat breakdown, which very clearly states all incoming damage.

Pathetic, almost as bad as them “pro’s” trying to defend the down mechanic (pre nerf)
Or the 5 man queues,
Or some of the other stuipidity we’ve seen over the year’s to defend a virtual title.

And they wonder why we all quit.

Abelisk.4527:

ugrakarma.9416:

Condi is a fix to the boring power-bunker-stun meta. “nerf” is never a solution, diversity is. u should be more diverse and think of some anti-condi button. and is very simple since condi builds, requires “constructon” to stack significantly amount of condi. To necro stack 30 bleed on someone isnt just press 1 button.

Except that the condi change was introduced with the HoT specializations. By removing condi out of the way people will play around with HoT builds.

Not to mention a ton of the HoT specs provide a lot of condi cleanse. Nerfing condi stacking would allow for core builds to shine more.

im kinda bored with old hammer war.

These classes have had their brilliance for a long time. Burn warrior is much more fun.

I do not see why these “cores” would have to shine again.

these endless ‘QQ Condi Meta Plz Nerf’ never fail to amuse.

it’s a power meta, where most builds are very strong v condi, & many have group clears (ele, ranger, egi). the complaints are honestly embarrassing.

@anyone who wants to accuse me of just defending myself, the last builds i played consistently were menders scrapper & rifle/GS warrior so suck it. its a power meta, so i play power.

Highlie.7641:

It’s rather amusing honestly, It’s like they think we don’t know there is this thing called a combat breakdown, which very clearly states all incoming damage.

Death break down shows all condition damage added up from the whole fight, but direct dmg seperated for each skill, that’s why condis are almost always on top even if it is not what actually killed you. Better don’t try to use those meaningless numbers as argument …

Lol No kitten….

So clueless, when you open your list and there is 0 dmg from powerdmg it’s pretty obvious it’s a problem with conditions keep trying though with your meaningless rants
when you lose 3/4 of your life and then die to the last hit from power, you probably consider that a power spec right hahah my god man give you head a shake.

Just stating facts …

Adrenalin.5719:

Crinn.7864:

Dire doesn’t exist in sPvP

Yeah, that is the problem tho. You don’t need it for pvp because carrion just works fine anyways.

Condi builds are far squishier than power builds for every class except Mesmers.

Not really. They don’t have to care for cleanses when facing power.

dire was removed because it was broken cant w8 for the same to happen in wvw as well as traiblazer

People can’t seem to wrap their minds around “conditions are just as valid a way to do damage as power”, so you see this weird outraged reaction over and over.

Abelisk.4527:

Except that the condi change was introduced with the HoT specializations.

No, it was introduced months before HoT’s release.

zealex.9410:

dire was removed because it was broken cant w8 for the same to happen in wvw as well as traiblazer

Leaving aside that the first part is wrong (unless you think Soldier’s and the like were broken too), removing a gear stat from WvW would require removing it from the game entirely. They’ve done that literally once in the game’s history, and then only because Magic Find stopped being a gear stat entirely so they had to replace those combos with something new.

In PvP conditions are OP only if players can’t cleanse wisely.

When fighting the ways to “reset damage” are via healing (to regain health) and cleansing (to prevent incoming damage).
While the heal gain “better value” as often it’s casted the cleanse gain value on how many stacks and condition type are cleansed.

Its quite funny that this argument always crops up. Its simply a player divide in skill what might seem easy to one person seems OP to another. GW2 has always tried to balance around both high level play and catering for newer players in pvp THIS is the problem and why they could never get balance changes right for esl.

A prime example is mesmer. several times it was complained being overpowered and nerfed into the ground only being carried by its portal and moa utility skills (which honestly are broken but i like them in the game). It took them ages to actually nerf. also power guardian. it was never broken never OP was quite easy to play against with attrition. guardians being so weak (bunker not included :P) in 1v1’s simply because they relied so heavily on their cooldowns. for newer players the skills appeared overpowered and they were enough to let the guardian win fights and recharge cd’s but at higher play this just doesnt happen, players try to memorise your cooldowns and work against them.

the same is what youre discussing with condi. condi is terrible in teamfights it just doesnt work. one ele in your team fight and theyre useless. its only in the 1v1’s / 2v2’s that they become relevant. The thing about condi is that before it can do its damage it has to sit on your skill bar announcing itself to the world that you are going to be damaged over time. there are countless skills that can remove it and can also be removed by teammates. to newer players that struggle with looking at their boons/condi’s and their enemies (they’ll most likely be looking at their CD’s/ the enemies actions) they dont notice the damage tick up and they passively spam condition removal.

Highlie.7641:

Lol No kitten….

So clueless, when you open your list and there is 0 dmg from powerdmg it’s pretty obvious it’s a problem with conditions keep trying though with your meaningless rants
when you lose 3/4 of your life and then die to the last hit from power, you probably consider that a power spec right hahah my god man give you head a shake.

Sometimes fighting against different Burn builds (like guardian, engi or eventually ele) i found myself fight a lot and when I die I can see that I suffered over 50k (or more) of Burn…
Seriously, if I was able to survive to 50k of Burn there’s something wrong…
Also thet Burn is not divided by enemy, it’s all the burn/poison/bleed/confusion/torment/crap damage you recived since the last time you respowned. Then is easy to see this numbers as the biggest because even power builds have skills that inflicts conditions even if they don’t play condi (example: guardian).

Think as if 1/4 of the enemy team use only a single power skill to hit you (chose the one you like more, still if not spammable, only to make an example), what will be the higher skill damage in your list when you die?

To have a better look to what killed you, try to click on “show by time” (or something like that, I don’t remember the words) and you’ll see what truly killed you.
Frequently you’ll find that the last huge hits that killed you are Power based.

Also (if I don’t survive for more than a single team fight) I always see a power based hit in the main damage that killed me.

it’s an old problem since pre-HoT when “the burn guardian killed me with 90+k of burn! it’s OP!”. It was seriously hylarious thinking that players survived to over 90k of Burn before die and still complained that it was OP.
The same problem is the thing you listed as the proof of how “op” are conditions over power.

Also, a Power class need to inflict you lesser damage to kill you because you will die quickly, eventually unable to active heals or defensive skills (like dying from some thief, war or mesmer burst) and then the amount you see will be lesser if compared to condition damage, that will let you the time to heal, active cleanse, fight for longer.

Is not always the highest damage recived at the end of a match what truly killed you.

RedCobra.7693:

Its quite funny that this argument always crops up. Its simply a player divide in skill what might seem easy to one person seems OP to another. GW2 has always tried to balance around both high level play and catering for newer players in pvp THIS is the problem and why they could never get balance changes right for esl.

A prime example is mesmer. several times it was complained being overpowered and nerfed into the ground only being carried by its portal and moa utility skills (which honestly are broken but i like them in the game). It took them ages to actually nerf. also power guardian. it was never broken never OP was quite easy to play against with attrition. guardians being so weak (bunker not included :P) in 1v1’s simply because they relied so heavily on their cooldowns. for newer players the skills appeared overpowered and they were enough to let the guardian win fights and recharge cd’s but at higher play this just doesnt happen, players try to memorise your cooldowns and work against them.

the same is what youre discussing with condi. condi is terrible in teamfights it just doesnt work. one ele in your team fight and theyre useless. its only in the 1v1’s / 2v2’s that they become relevant. The thing about condi is that before it can do its damage it has to sit on your skill bar announcing itself to the world that you are going to be damaged over time. there are countless skills that can remove it and can also be removed by teammates. to newer players that struggle with looking at their boons/condi’s and their enemies (they’ll most likely be looking at their CD’s/ the enemies actions) they dont notice the damage tick up and they passively spam condition removal.

internet fist bump my dude

it’s totally a skill level thing. like, a lot of people think gw2 is a very easy faceroll game, but its really not. the combat is pretty complex & the learning curve is really steep at first.

If you want to play PVP i suggest only one thing http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/58d7d68f112f70d8628b5770-1854/scremasteredlogoart.jpg do that, but with GW1

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

Adrenalin.5719:

megilandil.7506:

condi duration not matter much because: insane amount of cleanses== if not bursty not viable condis===toxic gamemode if 2 or more go condis and no cleanbots near(if cleanboot condi players disabled).

first step to fix condies is hardnerfing the cleanbots like ele, after this condies can be toned down to be a more strategic gameplay based in staking and sustaining stacks

First step is to buff the cleanses so power can 1v1 condi without an elebot.

its a weapon race, and the solution never is buy a bigger gun

What are you even talking about silv, your way off topic dude. I’m not talking about total damage dealt. Do your self a favor and open your combat log, i can garentee That most of the spaces in the box are condition damage.

If i was talking about total damage dealt i would of brought up the fact that i’m using a thief build with a +67% dmg modifier and it’s still possible for con spec’s to be on par with my TTK. you do realize that’s like 10-14k crits without might / vuln right?(depending on target),

You should already see the diffrence if you even play this game. one spec is rightfully super squishy, while the con spec (again same TTK) has a buttload of sustain. Anyone who hasn’t figured out that this is the problem with con specs is mental.

Let me simplfy it even more, one has to go ball’s deep into dmg modifiing traits at the cost of defensive traits, while one doesn’t, one has to Target and get into range (180) , while the other spams Aoe’s and and channels.

conditions specs are braindead. it really is that simple. If you want thief like burst damage on a con spec, that is completly fine. but they should also be just as squishy

I seen it today and most of damage are condi but the damage that killed me was Power. I recived things like 500 condi- 700 condi – 400xx – 3500 power – 400 condi – 2500 power, things like that. frequently i die for Power damage and not for condition. I maybe have more condition at the last but they ticked for poor damage and when I was downed. When downed you still suffer all the conditions you had on you, ticking low damage, but at 80% of tine you are stomped and then that damage is irrilevant.

Also, if you play Thief you play a class “weak” against condition damage (generally the power thief have lesser condi remove than other classes) and that explain the reason you hate so much conditions.

Thief condi spec have a lot of survavibility, that’s true. Is based on the dodge build and can abuse of that to be hard to kill and spam conditions.
Anyway is a lot that I don’t die against a condi thief. Also is really hard find a condi thief because the Power build is so good compared to the condi one that no one want to play condi with a thief.
Also the power build have different skills to defend, generally using more stealth.

But yes, i was not thinking about the thief when i wrote my post, i forgot it, i’m sorry.

Anyway, you have +67% of damage modifier and can crit for 10-14k in a single Istant hit and still complain for conditions? O.o
Are you serious?
If with a similar damage you are able to make the condition build pair your damage there’s something wrong…

Thief isn’t weak vs condition dmg. They can’t tank much dmg, regardless if it is power or condi dmg, but if well played, they have enough tools to survive against any kind of dmg by avoiding the hits in the first place.

90% of complaints about condis are a L2P issue. It has been like this since release. Condi builds could be utter crap and people would still die and complain, because they don’t want to learn for whatever reason. It is pretty obvious that many people in threads like this have no clue what actually kills them. Instead of mentioning those op skills and traits, everyone is just talking about condis in general. As if conditions come out of nowhere and every single condi will instakill someone …

I would argue about only mes running condi. I see plenty of condi necros, condi thieves, burn guards (especially on NA for some reason), condi rangers, condi revs in every match. The only class i haven’t seen frequently running condi build is ele for obvious reasons.
My guess is we have to thank sigil change?

ok condi is beyond what any berserk/power build is. the problem is when you fight a team of five and three out of five are condi. say guardian, necro and mesmer if they are sticking together or the entire enemy team is “zerging” the whole game i get where every one is complaining that condi is way to strong i deal with that zerging garbage often enough to be allowed to even post on this matter. so say the guard and mesmer throw there condi’s on you then the necro and then out of no where you get feared you die the moment the fear hits you. same with the torment from the necro and the mesmer. you dodge most of their hard hitting condi skills at this point you have 3 stacks of torment 5 stacks of confusion, bleeds,burn, and the most annoying imo poison. then the necro fears you and you instantly die. point is one condi player is not to bad but three condi players mixed with two power players say the other two are thiefs you will lose. the only thing condi players sacrifice is power thats it unless your vipers amulet.

the only thing condi players sacrifice is power thats it unless your vipers amulet.

almost all of the PvP amulets only have 1/2 defensive stat and 2/3 offensive ones. I believe paladins and sage are the only two that don’t follow this with vit/toughness or healing power/vit respectively.

RedCobra.7693:

the same is what youre discussing with condi. condi is terrible in teamfights it just doesnt work. one ele in your team fight and theyre useless. its only in the 1v1’s / 2v2’s that they become relevant. The thing about condi is that before it can do its damage it has to sit on your skill bar announcing itself to the world that you are going to be damaged over time. there are countless skills that can remove it and can also be removed by teammates. to newer players that struggle with looking at their boons/condi’s and their enemies (they’ll most likely be looking at their CD’s/ the enemies actions) they dont notice the damage tick up and they passively spam condition removal.

And condi players itselfs, have some condi cleanses or get dead. full Viper Necro, Burn Guard, and Burn Warr have near 0 condi cleanses, unless their sacrifice some damage, same foi poison thief. So condi players that make insta kill, are thenselves squish.

Senkaga Yanze.7896:

ok condi is beyond what any berserk/power build is. the problem is when you fight a team of five and three out of five are condi. say guardian, necro and mesmer if they are sticking together or the entire enemy team is “zerging” the whole game i get where every one is complaining that condi is way to strong i deal with that zerging garbage often enough to be allowed to even post on this matter. so say the guard and mesmer throw there condi’s on you then the necro and then out of no where you get feared you die the moment the fear hits you. same with the torment from the necro and the mesmer. you dodge most of their hard hitting condi skills at this point you have 3 stacks of torment 5 stacks of confusion, bleeds,burn, and the most annoying imo poison. then the necro fears you and you instantly die. point is one condi player is not to bad but three condi players mixed with two power players say the other two are thiefs you will lose. the only thing condi players sacrifice is power thats it unless your vipers amulet.

It’s the same repeated argument from WvW.

Most WvW anti-conditions argue that this harms your roamers and people who fight at most 5×5. But though, WvW is a mode designed for large-scale battles, at 20×20, condi is not a problem. Most ppl that like roaming are thievs or “hit and run” dudes

The same now in PVP, if the guy does not like 5×5, then goes to 1×1 duels. 5×5 is about team. If your team is so vulnerable to condition, then its mean thats is always made up of “hit and run” classes, like mesmerz and thievs.

Frozen.1347:

Thief isn’t weak vs condition dmg. They can’t tank much dmg, regardless if it is power or condi dmg, but if well played, they have enough tools to survive against any kind of dmg by avoiding the hits in the first place.

90% of complaints about condis are a L2P issue. It has been like this since release. Condi builds could be utter crap and people would still die and complain, because they don’t want to learn for whatever reason. It is pretty obvious that many people in threads like this have no clue what actually kills them. Instead of mentioning those op skills and traits, everyone is just talking about condis in general. As if conditions come out of nowhere and every single condi will instakill someone …

This so true. While I do not PvP , I do have one thief that uses only Trickster traits as condition cleanse on a power build in WvW. It has a high number of dodges and high burst as compensation. I play it deliberately to hone my Condition avoidance skills and after having don e so find it much easier to do the same on other builds. Now it certainly dies to conditions when misplayed but the fact remains there still a lot that remains in control of the player when it comes to facing a condition build.

ugrakarma.9416:

Senkaga Yanze.7896:

ok condi is beyond what any berserk/power build is. the problem is when you fight a team of five and three out of five are condi. say guardian, necro and mesmer if they are sticking together or the entire enemy team is “zerging” the whole game i get where every one is complaining that condi is way to strong i deal with that zerging garbage often enough to be allowed to even post on this matter. so say the guard and mesmer throw there condi’s on you then the necro and then out of no where you get feared you die the moment the fear hits you. same with the torment from the necro and the mesmer. you dodge most of their hard hitting condi skills at this point you have 3 stacks of torment 5 stacks of confusion, bleeds,burn, and the most annoying imo poison. then the necro fears you and you instantly die. point is one condi player is not to bad but three condi players mixed with two power players say the other two are thiefs you will lose. the only thing condi players sacrifice is power thats it unless your vipers amulet.

It’s the same repeated argument from WvW.

Most WvW anti-conditions argue that this harms your roamers and people who fight at most 5×5. But though, WvW is a mode designed for large-scale battles, at 20×20, condi is not a problem. Most ppl that like roaming are thievs or “hit and run” dudes

The same now in PVP, if the guy does not like 5×5, then goes to 1×1 duels. 5×5 is about team. If your team is so vulnerable to condition, then its mean thats is always made up of “hit and run” classes, like mesmerz and thievs.

You should play more wvw before telling at 20×20 condi is not a problem XD. Guess what, guilds who plays in guild arena 20v20 skirmish use tons of of condi cleanse and resistance, but in fact most of the kills in those guilds fight come from condi dmg.

Shala.8352:

ugrakarma.9416:

Senkaga Yanze.7896:

ok condi is beyond what any berserk/power build is. the problem is when you fight a team of five and three out of five are condi. say guardian, necro and mesmer if they are sticking together or the entire enemy team is “zerging” the whole game i get where every one is complaining that condi is way to strong i deal with that zerging garbage often enough to be allowed to even post on this matter. so say the guard and mesmer throw there condi’s on you then the necro and then out of no where you get feared you die the moment the fear hits you. same with the torment from the necro and the mesmer. you dodge most of their hard hitting condi skills at this point you have 3 stacks of torment 5 stacks of confusion, bleeds,burn, and the most annoying imo poison. then the necro fears you and you instantly die. point is one condi player is not to bad but three condi players mixed with two power players say the other two are thiefs you will lose. the only thing condi players sacrifice is power thats it unless your vipers amulet.

It’s the same repeated argument from WvW.

Most WvW anti-conditions argue that this harms your roamers and people who fight at most 5×5. But though, WvW is a mode designed for large-scale battles, at 20×20, condi is not a problem. Most ppl that like roaming are thievs or “hit and run” dudes

The same now in PVP, if the guy does not like 5×5, then goes to 1×1 duels. 5×5 is about team. If your team is so vulnerable to condition, then its mean thats is always made up of “hit and run” classes, like mesmerz and thievs.

You should play more wvw before telling at 20×20 condi is not a problem XD. Guess what, guilds who plays in guild arena 20v20 skirmish use tons of of condi cleanse and resistance, but in fact most of the kills in those guilds fight come from condi dmg.

WvW has the balance of PvE which has very little direct relevance to PvP balance.