Guild Wars 2

kittening make it happen already.

Capture the flag is much more dynamic than standing on a circle.

In every other mmo I have played I have always tried to win the objective. It was MONTHS ago when I got fed up and just decided to start farming because it was more gratifying.

PvP is quite stale in this game and it’s getting worse as the skill gap continues to narrow.

Look how unbalanced the abilities to carry the orb on Spirit Watch around.
Do you realy want a whole Game mode based on this?

CtF might actually become Skyhammer2, as one of the big negativ aspects, always listet up witch Skyhammer is the bad distribution of “essential” skills (aka Knockbacks, fear, etc).
The Orb on Spiritwatch basicly provides the same.
Even ANet “admited” in the Ready up Stream, that it might be unbalanced. As long as they wand a Warrior (this isnt ment to be Warrior hate) to have the charactersitics of being “sturdy”, it means, that he might be a better choice for carrying the orb / flag.

Ever watched an average Thief* / Mesmer carrying an orb?
Probably not, as they either die withing seconds or drop the orb as soon they use one of their CLASSMECHANICS.

*I m saying average, not some “special orb carry thief-build”

EverythingEnds.4261:

Look how unbalanced the abilities to carry the orb on Spirit Watch around.
Do you realy want a whole Game mode based on this?

CtF might actually become Skyhammer2, as one of the big negativ aspects, always listet up witch Skyhammer is the bad distribution of “essential” skills (aka Knockbacks, fear, etc).
The Orb on Spiritwatch basicly provides the same.
Even ANet “admited” in the Ready up Stream, that it might be unbalanced. As long as they wand a Warrior (this isnt ment to be Warrior hate) to have the charactersitics of being “sturdy”, it means, that he might be a better choice for carrying the orb / flag.

Ever watched an average Thief* / Mesmer carrying an orb?
Probably not, as they either die withing seconds or drop the orb as soon they use one of their CLASSMECHANICS.

*I m saying average, not some “special orb carry thief-build”

There will always be better classes than others when carrying a flag just like there are better classes today that can bunker a point. A druid in wow is always the superior flag runner, but other classes are better at other duties such as recapture or support, etc. Ctf is a great game mode that should already be in gw2. If it is so imbalanced they can remove it from tournaments just like skyhammer.

I dont have any problems with Ctf, but I dont think, if you know right from the beginning, that a Game mode / map wont be competitive in any way, so you only can publish it for hot join, you should rly think about if it is worth the effort of creating it.

Hmm, CTF would be interesting long term, but unless something was done about the nature of it, I suspect it would end up one bunker (carrying flags/orbs whatever), and 4 dps to burst down the other carrier (who will also be a bunker). It would be a bit spammy.

The problem is, what do people want and whats will be good? More single combat focus, so bigger maps and more defined roles in the game play, resulting in more 1v1s? But thats not really team play as such, so is it something that promotes more team fights? but then that would just be a spam fest and the clutter would fast become a problem.

COnsidering the current problems with combat, its hard to find a mode that would freshen things up a lot more outside of straight up 5v5 arena death match type things, and that has its own set of problems.

If they do go for some sort of arena team deathmatch, I hope they keep the numbers high or else people will just fill it with one class. At least with more numbers you have the option for more counters. I think 1v1 would just be the worst, as all the cheesey classes would be the obvious option to win, so endless pure glass thieves, mm necros, clone spam mesmers, spirit necros, in fact anything that gives a nasty advantage in 1v1 would be the only classes to show up.

Spirit watch is horrible argument imo. You don’t have to travel very far to get the points. I’m talking going into an enemy base getting the the kitten ed thing and marching across a field to score… y’know, capture the flag.

Build diversity would be great, running/ holding a flag are two completely diff. things. Defending a flag/ capturing are two completely diff things. Stop looking at this as if it were conquest where there is only one objective (standing on a circle longer than the other guy).

All this w/o taking into account geography. Something that A-net has actually done a great job with.

But if the distance becomes even larger, doesnt this mean, that bad orb carriers in Spiritwatch will be even worse in CTF and good orb carriers in Spiritwatch will be even better / more necessary in CTF?

It sure does… it’s a different game. I don’t understand why people don’t understand that spirit watch does not equal capture the flag, it’s still standing on a kittening circle.

So you agree that CTF will increase the inbalance in the abilities of carrying orb between the classes, but you dont see any problem with this fact?

Not when the goal of the game is just that. You design builds in conquest to hold/ take points. Which is the objective. You act as if everyone would run conquest builds in CTF.

Apparently i need to say it again, Spirit Watch = conquest, not capture the flag. The END GOAL is still to hold a point, not run an orb. You are arguing over a footnote as apposed to the actual objective of the game.

Based on your logic people would run pve builds in forest so they can garuntee svanir/ chieftan kills. It’s a minor variable compared to the dominating theme of conquest.

It’s a different game with different objectives which is why people would build to have an advantage of running/ holding a flag. Kinda like how in conquest people build to hold/ take a point. Wanna keep beating a dead horse?

Ok, so you want a game mode which requires a whole new balancing system?

Dont you think ANet is busy enough with messing up balance for conquest?

Also, make plz some example how CTF builds will be different from Conquest builds?
CC: Still strong, as you can lock down ppl or knockback /pullback the carrier/the chasers.
Stability: Still strong, to prevent CC.
Conditions: Maybeeven stronger in CTF, as cripple and chill will slow down the carrier.
Burst: To kill the carrier the fastest way possible.
Ok, I admit, that AoEs might reduce, but thats it basicly.

“Also, make plz some example how CTF builds will be different from Conquest builds?

Ever watched an average Thief* / Mesmer carrying an orb?
Probably not, as they either die withing seconds or drop the orb as soon they use one of their CLASSMECHANICS.

But if the distance becomes even larger, doesnt this mean, that bad orb carriers in Spiritwatch will be even worse in CTF and good orb carriers in Spiritwatch will be even better / more necessary in CTF?"

You have given many examples of why/ how builds would change.

EverythingEnds.4261:

So you agree that CTF will increase the inbalance in the abilities of carrying orb between the classes, but you dont see any problem with this fact?

No more of a problem than not rolling full bunk engie, or warrior for sitting on a point in conquest. Hell, at least with CTF, if I’m not built to run the flag optimally, I can at least support our flag runner, or try and get the other flag back or just slow down their team from reaching our flag carrier.

I played WoW pvp back in Vanilla when we only had Warsong Gulch. I still jump into WoW from time to time just to play WSG because it is extremely fun and way less predictable than conquest.

I don’t know where you’re getting that Thieves make bad orb carriers on Spirit Watch, the following…

S/D #3 (Flanking Strike)
15 Acrobatics
Vigorous Recovery (10 in Acrobatics)
Withdraw
Roll for Initiative
Signet of Agility

… combined makes the most OP orb carrier I’ve ever played. Seriously, just try it out sometime, you’ll be amazed how fast you get there while evading the entire time.

Capture the Quag(gan) :-3

Incurafy.6329:

I don’t know where you’re getting that Thieves make bad orb carriers on Spirit Watch, the following…

S/D #3 (Flanking Strike)
15 Acrobatics
Vigorous Recovery (10 in Acrobatics)
Withdraw
Roll for Initiative
Signet of Agility

… combined makes the most OP orb carrier I’ve ever played. Seriously, just try it out sometime, you’ll be amazed how fast you get there while evading the entire time.

You havent read the star

Qutoing myself:

“*I m saying average, not some “special orb carry thief-build””

And besides thief, where did I give examples how builds will change? O.o

CTF wont be that different from Conquest, except of those points:
-Even more Zerging, as there is only one flag, while there are 3 Capture points in Conquest
-You are forced to attack the bunker: In conquest, you can either avoid the capture point with the toughest bunker (yea I know, those days, bunkers are everywhere…), or at least in a team fight, you can kill his teammates first and finish the bunker last. However in CTF, if the bunker carries the flag, you are almost forced to attack the toughest one in their team, cause you need the flag.

EverythingEnds.4261:

Incurafy.6329:

I don’t know where you’re getting that Thieves make bad orb carriers on Spirit Watch, the following…

S/D #3 (Flanking Strike)
15 Acrobatics
Vigorous Recovery (10 in Acrobatics)
Withdraw
Roll for Initiative
Signet of Agility

… combined makes the most OP orb carrier I’ve ever played. Seriously, just try it out sometime, you’ll be amazed how fast you get there while evading the entire time.

You havent read the star

Qutoing myself:

“*I m saying average, not some “special orb carry thief-build””

And besides thief, where did I give examples how builds will change? O.o

CTF wont be that different from Conquest, except of those points:
-Even more Zerging, as there is only one flag, while there are 3 Capture points in Conquest
-You are forced to attack the bunker: In conquest, you can either avoid the capture point with the toughest bunker (yea I know, those days, bunkers are everywhere…), or at least in a team fight, you can kill his teammates first and finish the bunker last. However in CTF, if the bunker carries the flag, you are almost forced to attack the toughest one in their team, cause you need the flag.

Not true. You may be forced to attack the flag support first while CCing the flag runner so he doesn’t get very far. Or… you may have to decide to try and go for their flag while they are carrying your flag so they can’t score. Also, the difference in this scenario (if a bunker proves to be the meta for flag-running and not someone with tons of evades), the flag runner can’t just stand on a point soaking dmg and basically forcing you to fight his way like they do when they are just perched on a point in Conquest. They need to constantly be trying to gravitate towards their team, while you and your team are trying to kill him/immobilize, slowing the rest of their team, and sending someone off to go grab their flag.

The map would also have to be much longer than any spvp map we currently have in order to reduce the effectiveness of say… a warrior using GS/sword combos for mobility. The length of kegbrawl is pretty close to what I’m thinking of.

Picking up a flag can replace your skills. Think a warrior banner.

This can be very interesting as a game time. I can see maps with side objectives like capturing a speed buff for your flag carrier or some node to hold for a stat buff. This way you can shrink the teamfight mess down to around 3 people or less.

I would like it.

No No No. This is the worst possible PvP idea for GW2. I want to actually be able to use my skills. Not have them enabled or disabled depending on what I am doing. This is also why spirit watch is not in the tPvP queue. It’s just not a good idea.

Bhima.9518:

EverythingEnds.4261:

Look how unbalanced the abilities to carry the orb on Spirit Watch around.
Do you realy want a whole Game mode based on this?

CtF might actually become Skyhammer2, as one of the big negativ aspects, always listet up witch Skyhammer is the bad distribution of “essential” skills (aka Knockbacks, fear, etc).
The Orb on Spiritwatch basicly provides the same.
Even ANet “admited” in the Ready up Stream, that it might be unbalanced. As long as they wand a Warrior (this isnt ment to be Warrior hate) to have the charactersitics of being “sturdy”, it means, that he might be a better choice for carrying the orb / flag.

Ever watched an average Thief* / Mesmer carrying an orb?
Probably not, as they either die withing seconds or drop the orb as soon they use one of their CLASSMECHANICS.

*I m saying average, not some “special orb carry thief-build”

There will always be better classes than others when carrying a flag just like there are better classes today that can bunker a point. A druid in wow is always the superior flag runner, but other classes are better at other duties such as recapture or support, etc. Ctf is a great game mode that should already be in gw2. If it is so imbalanced they can remove it from tournaments just like skyhammer.

as long as the person carrying the flag can’t just spam invul and speed moves, it is fine

as far as wow goes, yes druids were great at it but there were counters to it, druids didn’t go invul, druids could be CCd for fair amount of time, you could still catch up to them using mount etc. there were also limitations to what spells you could use while carrying flag and maps were pretty big too; my personal job in RBGs was always sit in our flag room on my rogue and make sure druid never makes it out of room alive

following things need to happen if CtF was implemented:

- long way between flag rooms
- limitation of spells that can be used while carrying the flag (aka no invul, no speed movement like GS, no stealth etc.)
- extra dmg taken while carrying flag: every minute or so, the longer you carry flag the more dmg you take
- (important) what this game lacks is way to satch up to flag carrier, in wow it were mounts for example… in gw2 i can imagine something like: while carrying flag you move really slow, the map contains speeds buffs that can be grabbed by anyone but the flag carrier; the longer you hold flag the slower you move
- multiple ways in and out of flag room so team doesn’t just block the only way
- certain terrain that allows you to maybe “ninja” behind main force and not just open field

Ok, I ll stop criticising CTF, until there is a better defined type of CTF we are talking about.

So:

Are we talking about
CTF: 1 Flag, both teams fight for it, or about
CT2F: every team has its own flag, which they have to defend, while stealing the other one

Maybe they could make the flag a like the Hammer on the fractal with the giant.
So you ware only able to carry it for a limited time.

Ok, one last critizism:
Wouldnt we end up (like in conquest) with team, consisting out of a lot of bunkers?
Think about it:
Bunkers have the most Sustain and probably a lot of condi cleanse and team support.
Make 5 of them walk together, supporting each other, it will be hard to CC them, Condis (especially Cripple, Immobilize, Chill) might be cleansened and if there are 5 bunkers, they either can rez up each other easily, or they might be able, that at least one of them survives long enough for reaching the goal.

If this was ever implemented the flag would need to give you 5 weapon skills no matter what class you are (like warrior banners), disable all your heal/utility/elite skills (like mistform and moa does) and set your runspeed to a fixed value, and you can never run faster than that.

EverythingEnds.4261:

Ok, I ll stop criticising CTF, until there is a better defined type of CTF we are talking about.

So:

Are we talking about
CTF: 1 Flag, both teams fight for it, or about
CT2F: every team has its own flag, which they have to defend, while stealing the other one

Maybe they could make the flag a like the Hammer on the fractal with the giant.
So you ware only able to carry it for a limited time.

Ok, one last critizism:
Wouldnt we end up (like in conquest) with team, consisting out of a lot of bunkers?
Think about it:
Bunkers have the most Sustain and probably a lot of condi cleanse and team support.
Make 5 of them walk together, supporting each other, it will be hard to CC them, Condis (especially Cripple, Immobilize, Chill) might be cleansened and if there are 5 bunkers, they either can rez up each other easily, or they might be able, that at least one of them survives long enough for reaching the goal.

to prevent that in wow tanks would take extra dmg actually; the problem is that it is hard to identify in gw2 if you are tank or not…maybe make it based on toughness?

Everything ends… except for everything end’s argument about the differences between conquest and ctf… sorry horse, here comes the club.’

You’re arguement has dissolved into claiming that builds won’t change… from your responses It has become abhorrently clear that you are confusing builds with abilities.

No kitten that cc/ condi’s/ bunkers/ etc. will still exist… abilities won’t change… Embarassing that anyone should have to explain this to someone. See the differences between PvE, PvP, WvWvW. Builds/ gearing/ strategy are dramatically different (because of the end objective of the game is different in each) while the inherent abilities of classes are the same, SHOCKER, right?!

What you are failing to realize, or just arguing for argument’s sake; not wanting to admit you are wrong… is that builds would change, albeit minor in some instances. As you have actually already identified in this very thread.

But please, keep the popcorn popping

CTF would greatly add to the strategic dynamics of this game that became very, very stale months ago.

And what more needs to be explained about CTF? There are two bases, each has a flag in it. You defend your flag and try and capture the other. O.o

Ad nauseam is my dead horse’s name, by all means, beat it.

Would be more interested to see a capture/defend gamemode like the Kurzicks – luxons type of thing.Cap the flag wont make the pvp side of this game more interesting since its just orb running..If they bring in a gamemode like kurzick,luxons there could be way more variety and im sure more people would be interested .Where one team needs to hold a fort,repair gates when breached and defend the leader inside the fort from the opposing team.The other needs to breachthe fort and kill the “leader” inside who the other team must protect.Bringing new types of armor/weapons only to be earned from doing that mode,and usable in pve/pvp,it would give people a goal to work too aswell.

Dolt.2731:

Everything ends… except for everything end’s argument about the differences between conquest and ctf… sorry horse, here comes the club.’

You’re arguement has dissolved into claiming that builds won’t change… from your responses It has become abhorrently clear that you are confusing builds with abilities.

No kitten that cc/ condi’s/ bunkers/ etc. will still exist… abilities won’t change… Embarassing that anyone should have to explain this to someone. See the differences between PvE, PvP, WvWvW. Builds/ gearing/ strategy are dramatically different (because of the end objective of the game is different in each) while the inherent abilities of classes are the same, SHOCKER, right?!

What you are failing to realize, or just arguing for argument’s sake; not wanting to admit you are wrong… is that builds would change, albeit minor in some instances. As you have actually already identified in this very thread.

But please, keep the popcorn popping

CTF would greatly add to the strategic dynamics of this game that became very, very stale months ago.

And what more needs to be explained about CTF? There are two bases, each has a flag in it. You defend your flag and try and capture the other. O.o

Ad nauseam is my dead horse’s name, by all means, beat it.

Thanks for your arguments Dolt.
But your arguments clearly show, that in fact, you support my point of view!

No offense, but this were basicly your last arguments.
You dont even rly try to promote CTF.
All you did was saying: “Capture the flag is much more dynamic than standing on a circle.”
Besides, you only try to tell my that my cricism is wrong. lol.

And btw: for me “build” means bunker/DD/CC/Condi -Build.

And still PLEASE give me EXAMPLES how anything I said is somehow “supporting” you, as you keep trying to tell me.
Not just empty phrases like “oh look you just did”.

You rly start to annoy me.