Guild Wars 2

Celestial avatar is a full condi cleanse with a 15 sec cooldown, and upon entering Celestial avatar, you are greeted with skills that heal you while simultaneously blinding, dazing, and creating a water field. After you leave celestial avatar, you are granted with stealth and superspeed in an AoE.

My fix: Celestial avatar cleanses 3 conditions instead of 13 upon entry and the icd on the superspeed/stealth trait is raised to 30 or 45 seconds. All healing numbers get a flat nerf of 20%.

I mean come on, do they really need all of this when THEY HAVE ANCIENT SEEDS?! THE MOST BROKEN POWER CREEP THING EVER SEEN?

Ya what they really need to bring them down from OP is traits like last stand and skills like dh block spam, then they would be more balanced.

30 or 45 seconds cd would be insane
remember it used to have no cooldown they already nerfed it to 15 sec

and nerfing BOTH condi remove and cooldown would just destroy druid

Anet could either reduce the amount of removed conditions to 5-6 maybe
or increase the cooldown a little bit more to like 18-20 seconds max

and that would already be a big nerf cause you would have 3-5 more crucial seconds to bring a druid down before he can heal effectively again

The Condi cleanse and Stealth+Superspeed have to be traited for, it’s not like they’re baseline.
It already got nerfed enough as it is. Right now, the only solution is to buff the other traits because they’re so bad we’re forced to take Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow because the rest sucks.

do you even know what the hardest counter for druids is? its condi pressure, i admit we got high sustain with our heals and thats one of the great things about rangers and makes for good bunkering, but the biggest killer for me in a team fight is getting constantly condi bombed and thats even when im running an additional condi clense utility, if celestial avatar got a nerf the damage spike would wipe us everytime with 0 effort from condi builds. so i disagree celestial avatar condi clense is not needing a nerf when we are far from running the strongest meta this season.

Ioras Dagnir.3927:

do you even know what the hardest counter for druids is? its condi pressure, i admit we got high sustain with our heals and thats one of the great things about rangers and makes for good bunkering, but the biggest killer for me in a team fight is getting constantly condi bombed and thats even when im running an additional condi clense utility, if celestial avatar got a nerf the damage spike would wipe us everytime with 0 effort from condi builds. so i disagree celestial avatar condi clense is not needing a nerf when we are far from running the strongest meta this season.

So you’re saying that you should survive being condi focused in a team fight each time? lmfao

Djahlat.9610:

The Condi cleanse and Stealth+Superspeed have to be traited for, it’s not like they’re baseline.
It already got nerfed enough as it is. Right now, the only solution is to buff the other traits because they’re so bad we’re forced to take Druidic Clarity and Celestial Shadow because the rest sucks.

Other traits are fine. What you are going through with the idea of buffing the other traits is called the diderot effect.

ROFL poelala strikes again

what are you smoking? cause Im not saying we should survive because we don’t unless we are making 0 mistakes. When condi pressure is already our biggest weakness it doesnt need making worse by nerfing our main defence and even then it isnt a garuentee because yeah we get focused and get downed before we can get avatar state back up. but thats just good teamplay from the other side and i have no argument with that. I only use celestial avatar for stealth and super speed to disengage, when it really shines though is when i’m in a team fight and need to break out the extra heals and remove those conditions from myself, i dont use ancient seeds trait. if devs did as you asked it would take no skill or effort from our counters. if you want celestial avatar nerfed you should ask condi damage be nerfed too. I know that in a team fight i need to evade those condis from necros and warriors but not every class has the same removals or mobility so teams rely on druids and eles to keep them alive thats our role and thats balanced imo. I do multiclass so I know what going up against a druid is like and how to counter. go on the season 5 class balance thread and see druids are one of the least mentioned classes where other classes and builds take a way higher priority especially condi builds.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Season-5-Class-Balance-Thread/first

I think the nerf that should be made to CA is to remove the super speed from the celestial shadows trait. That trait I believe is the most OP thing about CA and if a nerf is going to be made to it, that trait should be the target. Removing the stealth from that trait though would destroy Druid and would massively limit both its sustain and res power. However, stealth when combined with the super speed is a bit too much so if the super speed was removed I think it would bring druid’s ability to escape from bad situations into line.

The condi remove aspect of CA is not too bad in my opinion. I used to think it was but I have changed my mind. It is the only condi clear Druids run outside of signet of renewal and if it was nerfed, Druid would have a hard time against condi classes. Also, remember, Druid is a bunker class so should have high sustain. A nerf to pet dmg would be more useful than a nerf to CA in my opinion.

suffish makes a good point. The thing is, CA is strong in some situations, but it’s also weak in others. For example if I’m 1v1’ing on home point, going CA usually means giving up the decap, and so if I’m forced to use it, I know I’m not doing too hot.

suffish.4150:

A nerf to pet dmg would be more useful than a nerf to CA in my opinion.

First of all, this is a class that has its personal damage taxed for having a pet. The highest amount of sustained pet damage you can currently have in pvp, iow ignoring Remorseless shenanigans burst builds with the tiger, is by taking Nature Magic and Beastmastery. Two specialization lines that not only give the pet sustain, but the ranger too.

Anet has never, ever, never nerfed pets while giving the ranger some personal damage back as some compensation. If they want to nerf pet damage that people get from BM/NM even further, they sure as hell aren’t going to give that back to the ranger player in any way, shape or form.

Nerfing pets shouldn’t even be on the table. The old ones need to be updated and brought up to par.

@Poelala.2830 havnt you noticed? this season Ele is main bunker healing bot everybody is whining about, haven’t you noticed? ho…. it’s your class … NM.

The celestial avatar already received a huge nerf. If druid loses anymore defense vs condi then the class will be almost pointless to play until condi is fixed. Yes, I say fixed because honestly condi damage in this game ruins the gameplay, in my opinion. It does absolutely too much damage. People are able to drop loads of condi and then kite around while you die… pretty funny. :P Then we instead have people complaining about something already nerfed, like celestial avatar.

I was going to make one of my long winded posts on the subject but honestly the OP doesn’t feel worth it.

The suggested change would be castration to the druid. And in case that gets censored what I said rhymes with defenestration. (Defenestration meaning TO THROW OUT A kittenING WINDOW which is what OP wants to do to druid)

You would render the druid completely incapable of doing its job. In EVERY way. Removing the few reasons for both DPS druids AND Support druids can exist. Effectively gutting the class.

No, With the power creep since HoT the base ranger lines do NOT offer enough sustain to handle what comes at them at high level play. Incase you FORGOT SOMEHOW.

Rangers used to be a focus target on a similar level to necros. Because the base ranger simply could not get away.

Ranger used to be FREE KILLS to organized groups. Because nothing the ranger did once it started to get locked down by skilled people actually mattered. They have zero chance of doing anything to stop there attackers. And relied on thieves or mesmers to peel for them over…and over…and over again.

“Suggestions” like this show a complete lack of understanding on how the class even functions. As well as a questionable ability to perceive reality. And just shows why the playerbase SHOULDN’T always have a say in how class balancing is done.

Druid is one of the smaller fish on the field today. The fact that you made this post tells me that you got trolled by one on home or far. And rather than figure out WHY you lost and what you could have done better. You came here to do what everyone else in this community has done before you. Cry until you butcher something you don’t like.

Whatya know. I ended up making one of my posts anyway. Sorry to anyone who has to read this.

Shadelang.3012:

I was going to make one of my long winded posts on the subject but honestly the OP doesn’t feel worth it.

The suggested change would be castration to the druid. And in case that gets censored what I said rhymes with defenestration. (Defenestration meaning TO THROW OUT A kittenING WINDOW which is what OP wants to do to druid)

You would render the druid completely incapable of doing its job. In EVERY way. Removing the few reasons for both DPS druids AND Support druids can exist. Effectively gutting the class.

No, With the power creep since HoT the base ranger lines do NOT offer enough sustain to handle what comes at them at high level play. Incase you FORGOT SOMEHOW.

Rangers used to be a focus target on a similar level to necros. Because the base ranger simply could not get away.

Ranger used to be FREE KILLS to organized groups. Because nothing the ranger did once it started to get locked down by skilled people actually mattered. They have zero chance of doing anything to stop there attackers. And relied on thieves or mesmers to peel for them over…and over…and over again.

“Suggestions” like this show a complete lack of understanding on how the class even functions. As well as a questionable ability to perceive reality. And just shows why the playerbase SHOULDN’T always have a say in how class balancing is done.

Druid is one of the smaller fish on the field today. The fact that you made this post tells me that you got trolled by one on home or far. And rather than figure out WHY you lost and what you could have done better. You came here to do what everyone else in this community has done before you. Cry until you butcher something you don’t like.

Whatya know. I ended up making one of my posts anyway. Sorry to anyone who has to read this.

Summed up how I feel, +1

Only thing that really messes Druid balance is the overpowered as heck HoT Pets (Looking at you Smokescale and Bristleback )… Who are bruiser.. do all the damage and yet no weakness of less life or toughness. They need to be brought down to the LOW level of the other pets… simple as that.

LinhZeri.6412:

Only thing that really messes Druid balance is the overpowered as heck HoT Pets (Looking at you Smokescale and Bristleback )… Who are bruiser.. do all the damage and yet no weakness of less life or toughness. They need to be brought down to the LOW level of the other pets… simple as that.

.

Try using those base pets in high level pvp and tell me how it works for you.

News flash. It won’t. Believe me. I have tried..and tried…and tried..and tried. Smoke Scale, Bristle back, The moas to an extent, and in VERY gimicky builds the tiger are the only really reliable pets that exist today.

The rest either pop or don’t have any impact on the fight whatsoever.

Hell. Most of the old pets died in 1v1s ACCIDENTALLY. Even if you were built to support them. Much less team fights where even the smokescale can pop if your even a second slow on its evade.

As far as the damage is concerned?

No.

Pets deal less damage in team fight scenarios as well. The smokescales burst for example will act like revenants sword 3. Spreading its damage over multiple targets. With 2 targets that cuts its burst in half. Something that makes druid on druid fights pretty kitten obnoxious (one of the biggest good plays in a druid duel is knocking a druid away from his pet and using your smokescale right then to land the full burst before he can pull it back to act as a shield)

The Bristlebacks burst can be ACCIDENTALLY DODGED IN FULL. And often is. Id say around 30% of my bristleback bursts land any damage. More often than not in a team fight its been accidentally feared by a reaper, had weakness put on it by a reaper so that its damage was pathetic, stunned by a scrapper aoe, hit by slow from a dragonhunter trap (spreading its damage further out making it more likely some of it is mitigated in part if less likely to be dodged in full) reflected by random magnetic aura # 362. Blocked by random guardian bubble#197. Or stopped dozens of other ways.

Bristleback is actually less of a threat to most platinum players than the smokescale. And the smokescale is only a threat in 1v1s.

To put it into perspective. I often EAT an enemy druids bristleback burst when I have guard up. Because it gives me a kitten load of might stacks. And because it doesn’t actually do enough damage to me for that tradeoff to not be worth it in a fight. Then I turn around and maul the kitten for 5-6k. (Oh god druid actually has plays that have a bit of intelligence in them? Who would have thought, Aren’t they just played by their pets?)

P.S.

Note that the above does not take into account PROTECTION. Which is spammed by most relevant classes at this point. FURTHER reducing damage passively since druid/ranger has zero access to boon strips…yay

Poelala.2830:

Celestial avatar is a full condi cleanse with a 15 sec cooldown, and upon entering Celestial avatar, you are greeted with skills that heal you while simultaneously blinding, dazing, and creating a water field. After you leave celestial avatar, you are granted with stealth and superspeed in an AoE.

My fix: Celestial avatar cleanses 3 conditions instead of 13 upon entry and the icd on the superspeed/stealth trait is raised to 30 or 45 seconds. All healing numbers get a flat nerf of 20%.

I mean come on, do they really need all of this when THEY HAVE ANCIENT SEEDS?! THE MOST BROKEN POWER CREEP THING EVER SEEN?

Honestly, I think that the person who needs the nerf is you.
You just want to kill with the thought and let everyone fall like pieces of dominoes in your path.
I think the druid is one of the softest classes in mele, if it can not be cleaned conditions would be a dead class in pvp

LinhZeri.6412:

Only thing that really messes Druid balance is the overpowered as heck HoT Pets (Looking at you Smokescale and Bristleback )… Who are bruiser.. do all the damage and yet no weakness of less life or toughness. They need to be brought down to the LOW level of the other pets… simple as that.

The HoT pets (just say bristleback and smokescale, nobody’s pretending the wyverns are good and the tiger’s just another cat) aren’t overpowered, the old pets are under powered. The smokescale and bristleback are what pets should always have been.

CA does not need a nerf.

Druid’s access to stealth needs a nerf. Seriously they have better stealth access than thieves and mesmers put together.

it is a bunker/support class whose survivability is entirely reliant on stealth. Pretty sure the best team comp does not involve druids of any kind, so nerfing wont do anything to improve balance, which is in a pretty good state atm anyway. Probably better than it has ever been.
Don’t get me wrong, druid is not underpowered but its not overpowered either. The one class that every team needs is an ele. Apart from that I’d guess that rev, mes, reaper and scrapper are slightly better than druid, warrior and dh. Idk where thief is but I’d guess its somewhere in the middle.
I wouldn’t even necessarily say that ele is overpowered, it is just the only class/build that truly fills the support role, since druid is some crossover between support and bruiser.

the OP just says nosenses and competely absurds i guess coming from the grief of being outplayed for a much better player than him…

Also could be a check out if Anet balance team still follows the fashion of no thinking and doing what some random dude wrote in the forums.

Cool now we are saying nosense i think ele is competely absurd class that still has access to deal ridiculous amount of damage and then swap element and be a complete bunker impossible to kill.
Ele should not be able to change attunement while in combat . Thus it won’t be anymore the class than can be all at anytime going just naked.

Or you can just be smart and condi bomb them after they enter CA? It’s such an obvious and consistent way to wreck druid since druid has little to no condi clear outside of CA. (1 per shout , cool with a pigeonholed rune set cool) (2 w/ leadership on elite use with a pigeonholed rune set cool) (2 per WS skill , need specific skills to use so you are again pigeonholed to specific skill sets , etc etc

Even just soft-ccing them will hurt them a lot after entering CA , chill/immob especially and you force them to use their staff to remove or even worse they’ll use a long cooldown shout / WS skill to remove, re-apply afterwards -> wreck.

Druid is an easy class to manipulate once you know the weaknesses. Especially in team fights, condi pressure will absolutely wreck them.

Crinn.7864:

CA does not need a nerf.

Druid’s access to stealth needs a nerf. Seriously they have better stealth access than thieves and mesmers put together.

What… Thief with 5 → 2 with initiative use , utilities and BP , etc etc ..

Mesmer I can understand because the way you trait for the meta build currently has almost no stealth (but has invulns, blocks, portal, moa, essentially a ton of more useful utility so the trade-off is worth) , but it can achieve far greater stealth than ranger when traited but thief on the other hand you’re absolutely wrong and has way more mobility AND stealth as that is it’s role in conquest, and way more burst and decap potential , again, it’s purpose in the game → forcing enemy team rotations and off-capping points and +1’ing situationals. Thief is strong right now , and with the amount of evasion uptime, stealth has become less of a necessity. Mesmer is essentially strong in utility and in duo situations , of course, is a strong defender as well in point position play since stealth was trade for other methods of defensives.

Please note: ranger TRAITS and uses a specific pet for that along with a weaponset specifically for that stealth too. Also, again, yawn, stealth allows decapping so fighting on the point with that stealth does no help in holding it, so essentially you just want them to lose stealth for no reason whatsoever which essentially leads me to believe you lost in a duel arena 1on1 to a ranger that was good at managing stealth uptime and simply want it nerfed, again, for no viable reason outside of that. It’s the only way you could be asking for that.

Your thought process is silly, and I hope you’re trolling