Guild Wars 2

Everyone always say L2P. So what’s the counter to celestial comp (celestial eles, engis) ?

Big teamfights and focus tagets.

Bring even more celestial!

I play a celestial d/f ele and sometimes experiment with celestial engi too, and although I don’t run the meta builds as far as traits and runes and utility skills go, I can say that their weakness is a good burst – a hard counter to my personal build is a good s/d thief or phantasm mesmer.

I would not rely heavily on conditions when fighting them, at least not eles. Engis are weaker against conditions but it’s always easier to fight both when they’re on the defense rather than offense.

And of course, any class that can rip/corrupt boons can also destroy both, since the only reason they’re so strong is that they stack might like crazy.

Cynz.9437:

Everyone always say L2P. So what’s the counter to celestial comp (celestial eles, engis) ?

bad situations for my ele:

• vs staff bunker ele
• vs good engis
• vs burst gs guard
• vs massive condition pressure
• vs bad positioning
• vs very good axe/shield warrior

The best counter is having Mesmer and Teef and hoping to get Khylo.

Kako.1930:

I play a celestial d/f ele and sometimes experiment with celestial engi too, and although I don’t run the meta builds as far as traits and runes and utility skills go, I can say that their weakness is a good burst – a hard counter to my personal build is a good s/d thief or phantasm mesmer.

I would not rely heavily on conditions when fighting them, at least not eles. Engis are weaker against conditions but it’s always easier to fight both when they’re on the defense rather than offense.

And of course, any class that can rip/corrupt boons can also destroy both, since the only reason they’re so strong is that they stack might like crazy.

This. My d/p burst pretty much one shots those poor celestial elementalists. If I catch them below 50% health, that is a guaranteed game over for them.

on ele it’s focused burst. if you got a condi comp, wait till ele is in water, then spam condis on him. always work with area freezes and most staff& dd eles will literally melt down to a pulp in less than 3 seconds. for x/f eles, it will take as long as mist form and the focus invul last xD

Most people here are wrong. Ele is extremely hard to kill and I recommend targeting anyone else first.

bluberblasen.9684:

Cynz.9437:

Everyone always say L2P. So what’s the counter to celestial comp (celestial eles, engis) ?

bad situations for my ele:

• vs staff bunker ele
• vs good engis
• vs burst gs guard
• vs massive condition pressure
• vs bad positioning
• vs very good axe/shield warrior

Stalemates staff ele
Wins vs cele engis typically and loses to condi
Hard counters dps guard
Necros probably lose 1v1
Ele is very forgiving with positioning
Warr v ele Is a toss up

Killing d/d celestial eles isn’t that hard if you know what you’re doing.

Apply poison as often as you can, best when the ele leaves water.
Stuns and disables in general. Eles need to attack for their signet heal, no attack no heal.

Corrupt boons works wonders, shatter mesmer aswell. Each shattered clone removes 1 boon, 3 for all clones and 4 if shatters work on you too.

Despite having good healing capabilities celestial eles only have 2350 armor and are an easy target if you and your team know what to do.

Ofc a good ele will try to get out of your focus.

That being said you should still focus other classes first, namely ones that can put your comp in a dangerous situation and usually that won’t be a celestial ele.

Booms.2594:

Most people here are wrong. Ele is extremely hard to kill and I recommend targeting anyone else first.

bluberblasen.9684:

Cynz.9437:

Everyone always say L2P. So what’s the counter to celestial comp (celestial eles, engis) ?

bad situations for my ele:

• vs staff bunker ele
• vs good engis
• vs burst gs guard
• vs massive condition pressure
• vs bad positioning
• vs very good axe/shield warrior

Stalemates staff ele
Wins vs cele engis typically and loses to condi
Hard counters dps guard
Necros probably lose 1v1
Ele is very forgiving with positioning
Warr v ele Is a toss up

Well, to be fair, nobody is wrong because we’re all posting our own opinions based on our own experiences. Also, the question was referring to how to beat eles, not whether or not these would win in most situations. Of course it’s not going to be easy, especially if they’re skilled, and nobody suggested focusing them first in a group fight, but if you want to beat one 1 v 1, this is how it’s been done before at least. It might not be easy or guaranteed, but it is possible.

(I consider myself a fairly skilled elementalist and I’ve been wrecked by a few thieves and mesmers that played well. Of course, I also wrecked plenty of thieves and mesmers that didn’t play well with the same or similar builds too. There isn’t a build that can faceroll kill me. That would just be imbalanced.)

Jekkt.6045:

That being said you should still focus other classes first, namely ones that can put your comp in a dangerous situation and usually that won’t be a celestial ele.

in a full celestial comp, there is literally NOTHING that can wipe your team, so you may as well start with ele, but of course, squishier targets should be downed first

Against enemies of equal skill:
-Stalemate vs staff ele
-Stalemate vs cele engi until it crates
-Even match-up vs necros
-Favors the ele vs mesmer and thief, but possible to lose
-Beats warrior unless you play poorly

In 1v1 scenarios, it’s VERY hard to get a celestial DD ele in trouble.The most you can really rely on is sending someone who can stalemate the fight if you own the point he’s going to, sending someone who can decap the point and stalemate if they own the point, or outnumber the fight quickly with a mobile class. If you’re outnumbering the fight, it might be best to have the 1v1 start, have the ele blow some cooldowns, then come in.

i am talking about actual team fights where whole team set up is something like 2 celestial eles (staff preferably) and 2 cele engis + w/e

Kako.1930:

I play a celestial d/f ele and sometimes experiment with celestial engi too, I can say that their weakness is a good burst – a hard counter to my personal build is a good s/d thief

Burst? Do you even know the meaning of Burst? S\D thief has no burst..
All I can see is that do you play Celestial, doesn’t matter which class you pick.
Maybe that means there’s a problem with celestial when everyone and their mothers choose celestial over everything?
Also celestial Engi losing to thief is quite sad…

S/D thieves can go into Crit Strikes instead of Acrobatics and do a ton of damage.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

S/D thieves can go into Crit Strikes instead of Acrobatics and do a ton of damage.

This is because air/fire sigils damage.

Another stuff to nerf, it’s too high.

Or another way could be change how might works, like same power but half condi damage or something like that.

Thots on meta changes if blast finishers in fire fields only gave 1-2 might stacks instead of 3?

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Thots on meta changes if blast finishers in fire fields only gave 1-2 might stacks instead of 3?

I think main problem is condi damage from might stack, not power damage.

Basically every time you die from a high might stack profession, condi damage (burning, bleeding etc.) is always the first.

well, there you go. boonstrip ’em, freeze ’em and BAM!

Condi damage is highest because it only comes from a few sources. Power damage is spread across every different attack you have.

i think they should make it so earth dodge roll isnt a blast finisher. thats the source of like 9 stacks of might.

vs a team comp idk, but 1v1 power necro with corrupt boon does great vs ele

2 or 3 vs 1 sometimes works against Celestial team comps.

Sometimes…

Thanks.

A corrupt boon power necro vs a celestial ele…. dunno about that your corrupt is only going to prolong that fight more than win it for you, a good celestial ele should be able to wear the power necro down.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Condi damage is highest because it only comes from a few sources. Power damage is spread across every different attack you have.

Many times, when you die, the sum of physical attacks (if u’re good to dodge) is less than burning and bleeding (and torment too), this means if you are good to dodge but you don’t have a lot of condi removals, condi pressure at the end kills you.

And Burning from ele d/d celestial with high might stack is VERY significant, same for warrior. A DD ele every 10s can apply burning to you, same warrior with combustive shot (only every 7.5s).

With 15 might stacks (35*15= 525 + power and condi damage), you go over 1k in condi damage with the celestial amulet, for this reason celestial class with high might stack are really strong now.

NeXeD.3042:

A corrupt boon power necro vs a celestial ele…. dunno about that your corrupt is only going to prolong that fight more than win it for you, a good celestial ele should be able to wear the power necro down.

provoke water attunement and cleansing fire, wait for stability, corrupt, kick off fear chain, condi bomb, wait.

Cynz.9437:

Everyone always say L2P. So what’s the counter to celestial comp (celestial eles, engis) ?

With another celestial-bunkers comp while playing better.

tanztante.6532:

NeXeD.3042:

A corrupt boon power necro vs a celestial ele…. dunno about that your corrupt is only going to prolong that fight more than win it for you, a good celestial ele should be able to wear the power necro down.

provoke water attunement and cleansing fire, wait for stability, corrupt, kick off fear chain, condi bomb, wait.

Yeah buy he said power necro not condi necro….

tanztante.6532:

NeXeD.3042:

A corrupt boon power necro vs a celestial ele…. dunno about that your corrupt is only going to prolong that fight more than win it for you, a good celestial ele should be able to wear the power necro down.

provoke water attunement and cleansing fire, wait for stability, corrupt, kick off fear chain, condi bomb, wait.

If there’s a condi necro going 1v1 you can easily rotate to make him face soldier hambow instead of ele, ele can still roam somewhere else in seconds..you choose who you can leave defending point also looking at their comp and their rotations ofc..

Hardcounter Wars 2 <3

if you look at CM comp you’ll see that as single specs those are the builds with less real hardcounters that can run good in teamfight aswell as being all really hard in a 1v1 sitation on points…there’s no stuff like “can’t leave a mesmer or thief on point…” everyone can stand on point, everyone can contest points and everyone can possibly win a 1v1 or at least lasting long enough waiting for backup without loosing it or having to disengage..and that’s a really huge advantage

Soldier’s Hambow loses hard to a good condi necro…

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Soldier’s Hambow loses hard to a good condi necro…

Necro must be really good and war must be pretty stupid standing on point and not los’ing him…and that’s not only a matter of loosing, you may loose (Maybe) but if you can still last long enough to get backup you can just rotate the other war there (Or even the d/d then) while first one disengages and with earthshaker and signet of rage + regen form hs he’s gonna be somewhere else in seconds with decent amount of hp too (A tanky comp like that can usually stand 2v3 3v4 for long enough to let ppl swapping places)…so you’re still 1v1 on THEIR point and nec is gonna die while he’s not fast enough to disengage…they then have 5 ppl up and you have 4 with a really good teamfighter, that could have been a problem, on respawn..and then what are you gonna do? Retry on war? Get your close back (If someone decapped it while you were 4v5) while hoping your team not to get fully wiped in tf, or joining an outnumbered teamfight (If noone of them left to go for another point) where someone is probably gonna die before you get there?

tl;dr you probably shouldn’t go for that war vs a 5 bunker/celestial comp…not even if you actually think you may win 1v1, if war gets low noone is gonna leave you 1v1 for enough time..

I think I’m going to agree with olrun here… equal skill the condi necro should win as long as he dodges the knockdowns and doesn’t stand in the giant firefield the warrior might stop him from capping the point for a bit but he should die. And to your point about all the war has to do is wait for help… well what if the necro gets help first….

At top tier, condi necro will beat hambow. Necros lose at lower skill levels only because they don’t manage their dodges and cooldowns well. Besides, the tanky comp generally pushes 3 points, and the hambow is not the one you want to rely on to win the 1v1s. It’s strong in skirmishes, but it’s too easy to beat in 1v1s. It loses to so many things now. Also, the soldier’s hambow generally runs Battle Standard.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

At top tier, condi necro will beat hambow. Necros lose at lower skill levels only because they don’t manage their dodges and cooldowns well. Besides, the tanky comp generally pushes 3 points, and the hambow is not the one you want to rely on to win the 1v1s. It’s strong in skirmishes, but it’s too easy to beat in 1v1s. It loses to so many things now. Also, the soldier’s hambow generally runs Battle Standard.

If you run battle standard you should be in teamfight and not defending a point alone obviously..takes not much to realize it. Anyway, at least in high level play, a necro will never engage a war (Expec hambow) 1v1 on HIS point…dunno what do you mean with low skill levels, but in top 50-100 (EU ofc) necros won’t deliberately go vs hambows if they have other options..like going 1v1 with engi for example..because you know that it will (At least) take really long to do something and until you (If you can) down the war you can’t step on point so all the time you spent before killing him it’s a waste….always remembering that war can still disengage, los and kite while nec outside wurm can’t really go anywhere…

Let alone condi necro should be in teamfight anyway…

“If there’s a condi necro going 1v1 you can easily rotate to make him face soldier hambow instead of ele,”

That’s what you said, and that’s what I was arguing against. An ele takes just as long to kill as a hambow, and takes about the same amount of effort.

Necro can win a hambow but that will not be on a point.

Lb ranger is op and 1 shots everything!

Oh wait the ranger qq has ended already hasn’t it…

stop derailing thread, this is about team vs team

i am asking what set up would it take to beat celestial comp not 1v1

Well to down an elementalist you wanna carefully TIME and coordinate you’re burst, which usually right after him leaving water attument and having no protection up. In which scenario both direct and condition damage will pose a big threat to the elementalist.

Always usefull: Boon removal (Mesmer/Necro), putting chills on the elementalist and torment + confusion ( low HP).

For engineers, you wanna condi burst or keep interupting them. Most builds only have 1 stunbreak and 1 condition cleanse.

Cynz.9437:

i am talking about actual team fights where whole team set up is something like 2 celestial eles (staff preferably) and 2 cele engis + w/e

Cheese Mode have consistently said that good co-ordinated burst kills them, and not having a guardian on their team means that they will have trouble recovering if they lose the momentum.

In my experience playing against full bunker comps, splitting the fights across 3 points has been working out nicely. Our comp is Dp Thief, Hambow War, Guard, Cele Engi and Condi Necro.

Celestial isn’t OP unless fire blasting is being abused
One has to ask themselves: Is it Celestial that is OP or is it fire field might stacking?

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Celestial isn’t OP unless fire blasting is being abused
One has to ask themselves: Is it Celestial that is OP or is it fire field might stacking?

Celestial has sub-par damage without might stacks, so yes, I agree with you. However, is it the measly 3 stacks of might you get from a single blast that’s OP? Or is it the fact that, between them, a hambow warrior, ele, and engi have enough fire fields and blast finishers to get everyone of their teammates up to 25 stacks in seconds?

I think it’s the latter. So, while maybe might stacking has some problems. Maybe blast finishers are hideously overpowered (literally the only element of the combo system that people try to build for, what with the massive heal from water fields, the zerg-wide might in wvw, and the stealth from smoke fields), and ANet should do what they did with projectile finishers and turn some of them into “small” finishers (ie. only having 20% chance to proc, or maybe proccing at a reduced effect, like only a third the healing or only 1 might stack). Perhaps we even need a complete overhaul of the combo system in some way. I’m a fan of the idea of reducing the number of different kinds of fields and finishers, increasing the efficacy of the sub-par interactions, and make fields expire after 1 finisher.

However, those are long-term projects. In the meantime, ANet could do A LOT to slightly bring down the power of celestial comps by simply:
a. nerfing combustive shot by either making it a single-target skill rather than a ground targeted aoe (fire field is not left behind if the skill misses or target dodges), or by increasing its recharge to 15" and decreasing its duration to 3", making only its aoe size scale with adrenaline level)
b. reducing the duration of the fire fields left behind by burning speed and burning retreat to 3 and 4" respectively
c. reducing the duration of Lava Font to 3" and increasing the damage per pulse by 25% to compensate
d. removing the blast finisher from detonate flame blast (it’s just too low a cooldown to be on a weapon kit that also gives you a 10" fire field)
e. reduce durations of THrow Napalm and Fire Bomb to 2", and increase the damage per pulse (and the burning duration per pulse) by 33% to compensate
h. increase recharge of Earthshaker to 12".

I really hope someone sees these suggestions, as, on their own, they don’t seriously impact the effectiveness of each profession. They do, however, impact their ability to exploit each other’s fire fields to quickly build up to 25 might stacks and thereby steamroll the competition, which, as myself and others have often argued, is the real problem with the current meta celestial builds, not the celestial amulet itself, or the professions that use it.

Why not just decrease the number of might stacks a blast finisher gives you? That’s a much simpler solution imo

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Why not just decrease the number of might stacks a blast finisher gives you in pvp? That’s a much simpler solution imo

fix’d

blast finishers are not only source of might, i think max amount of might stacks in pvp needs to be reduced

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

Why not just decrease the number of might stacks a blast finisher gives you? That’s a much simpler solution imo

Just throwing this out there:

Without Strength runes, at max, you can achieve 6 stacks of might (instead of 9) just by weapon swapping.

That’s on yourself, not your party. Also, Battle sigils can be nerfed, too, if that’s necessary.

OlrunTheBlade.1486:

That’s on yourself, not your party.

Exactly.

/15 chars