Guild Wars 2

My feedback for the Champion’s Dusk stronghold map, and the stronghold gamemode in general. Feel free to post your own feedback and discuss.

I’ll start off by saying I don’t quite see why you guys over at Anet decided to focus on a gamemode like this. In my opinion there’s plenty of other gamemodes that would fit your combat system far better than what you’re working on now.
That said my first impression is it works better than conquest (which says more about how conquest meshes with your combat system than about stronghold) and if you really want to continue with a gamemode like this, here’s some points I think need improving.

The map feels very very tiny. I had hoped pushing lanes would be a considerable effort, but they’re just so very short. The whole map makes me feel claustrophobic, especially with how much is going on at once.

There’s too much going on at once. There’s only 5 players per team, you’re spread very thin if you need to push a lane, defend a lane, move supplies and man the treb all at once. Streamline things and put some stuff on auto pilot, have your minions spawn at regular interval and eat from a supply pool while it is available and make the treb auto fire on its lane or something. To go with the supply change you could make mid supplies spawn sporadically rather than be available at all times.

The guards are very very weak and die to a player in a matter of seconds. Coupled with the fact that once they’re dead, they’re dead (make them revivable) and lanes are so short pushing a lane really is a breeze. Feels like the game only really begins once inner gates are down. Adding another 0 to the guards’ health should be a step in the right direction, maybe make them deal increased damage against players so you actually need minions to tank some.

I don’t get why there needs to be two lanes next to each other. Feels like you took the Dota lane concept and changed it, going out of your way to avoid player conflict. A single lane with minions coming from both sides is just better imo, and would encourage less rush tactics and more player vs player.

Glass cannons are unreasonably strong in this gamemode. If a glass cannon encounters a player who is not a glass cannon, it is very easy for that player to simply ignore the other player and rush down their npcs while the other guy can do very little to really stop them. The whole idea of throwing npcs next to players in a pvp environment just wasn’t thought through looks to me. Tanky builds are all but useless since you can’t do much to protect your npcs. Don’t bring pve’s zerker meta into pvp please.

Overall if I can be perfectly honest if I wanted to play a Dota like map I would play one of the many dotalike mobas out there right now, rather than play this half baked clone, pardon the language. You have a unique combat system, find a gamemode that meshes with it and go from there is my best advice.

Jelle.2807:

There’s too much going on at once. There’s only 5 players per team, you’re spread very thin if you need to push a lane, defend a lane, move supplies and man the treb all at once. Streamline things and put some stuff on auto pilot, have your minions spawn at regular interval and eat from a supply pool while it is available

A single lane with minions coming from both sides is just better imo, and would encourage less rush tactics and more player vs player.

Good points

maybe next map with Stronghold mode could have just a single lane, but I don’t think they would rework the current map when it’s the only map for this mode at the moment

but if you would like to see it, they would have to separate the objectives somehow, because otherwise it would become a 5v5 deathmatch in the middle and then fast push before respawn… maybe some limited resource sources on different sides of map, so people have to split for 2 resource camps and a lane, like 1+3+1 for example, or 2+1+2, could be interesting

MaXi.3642:

maybe next map with Stronghold mode could have just a single lane, but I don’t think they would rework the current map when it’s the only map for this mode at the moment

To turn it into a single two way lane map yeah that would require an unreasonable overhaul, but they could turn it into a double two way lane map easily enough if they wanted to.
If they moved the player spawn away a little and continued the path to the courtyard in front of the inner gate, and moved the minion spawn to the courtyard they’d have two lanes and two outer gates both ending in front of the inner gate. That could work.

Jelle.2807:

Glass cannons are unreasonably strong in this gamemode. If a glass cannon encounters a player who is not a glass cannon, it is very easy for that player to simply ignore the other player and rush down their npcs while the other guy can do very little to really stop them. The whole idea of throwing npcs next to players in a pvp environment just wasn’t thought through looks to me. Tanky builds are all but useless since you can’t do much to protect your npcs. Don’t bring pve’s zerker meta into pvp please.

I do agree with some points you had but this is just wrong. For once, there is a game mode that doesn’t promote shoutbows, cele engis, dd eles and such and you’re complaining about it? Are you really pointing out that playing conquest meta builds, which are very forgiving, high reward lower risk builds, takes more skill than playing zerker builds? Stronghold has many pve elements and yes, you can make it a speed dungeon clear game, but don’t even think about saying how zerker meta would be less skill demanding than cele one.

Laraley.7695:

Jelle.2807:

Glass cannons are unreasonably strong in this gamemode. If a glass cannon encounters a player who is not a glass cannon, it is very easy for that player to simply ignore the other player and rush down their npcs while the other guy can do very little to really stop them. The whole idea of throwing npcs next to players in a pvp environment just wasn’t thought through looks to me. Tanky builds are all but useless since you can’t do much to protect your npcs. Don’t bring pve’s zerker meta into pvp please.

For once, there is a game mode that doesn’t promote shoutbows, cele engis, dd eles and such and you’re complaining about it?

Actually it does promote cele builds as those are capable of healing, cleansing and sharing boons with NPCs while also maintaining decent pressure. Escorting doorbreakers with cele staff ele or shoutbow was easy except for invading thieves. But with a bunker guard even thieves couldn’t take down a single one of our doorbreakers.

witcher.3197:

Laraley.7695:

Jelle.2807:

Glass cannons are unreasonably strong in this gamemode. If a glass cannon encounters a player who is not a glass cannon, it is very easy for that player to simply ignore the other player and rush down their npcs while the other guy can do very little to really stop them. The whole idea of throwing npcs next to players in a pvp environment just wasn’t thought through looks to me. Tanky builds are all but useless since you can’t do much to protect your npcs. Don’t bring pve’s zerker meta into pvp please.

For once, there is a game mode that doesn’t promote shoutbows, cele engis, dd eles and such and you’re complaining about it?

Actually it does promote cele builds as those are capable of healing, cleansing and sharing boons with NPCs while also maintaining decent pressure. Escorting doorbreakers with cele staff ele or shoutbow was easy except for invading thieves. But with a bunker guard even thieves couldn’t take down a single one of our doorbreakers.

Sure.

It doesn’t really, at current state it’s best to rush their lord and you’re not gonna have a good time on dd ele. You might want to have one of these specs but I’m sure as hell you won’t want to run 5 of them.