Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Solo-Que-August-6th/first#post2523103

Character Locking is coming on August 6th. This raises some unecessary difficulties for SoloQ:

If you Queue up for Solo Arenas and your team has no bunker guardian but their team does, how will you address this now? Because I used to swap out to a bunker if we didn’t had any because I can play one just as good and it helps the team composition.

Character Locking for TeamQ I understand but Im afraid this change will negatively affect SoloQ.

Players with class-versability should be rewarded and not limited. Just take a look at League SoloQ for example. If you can play several roles your chances are highly increased!

You are thinking too simply about this. Stop thinking in terms of bunkers and glass cannons. It isnt healthy. In solo q you will be rewarded for running a balanced build. If you want to run a complete lame bunker build then fine. But you have to accept that sometimes the lack of versitility of this build will get you.

Also I really dont want people switching to cheese builds when skyhammer comes on. EVERYTHING should be locked the moment you register for a tournament.

What? Do you even know what kind of disadvantages you are put up if your team has no bunker and their team haves? You dont get to chose your team in SoloQ so theres no way you can guarantee you will have a bunker.

If character locking is passed-on into SoloQ most of the people won’t risk and will mostly play bunker.

It’s GW1 Random Arenas all over again. So, character locking for SoloQ is a bad choice.

Yes, I do understand the disadvantages very well.

Why would people play bunker? It is the one thing I wouldnt play. You wont be able to do anything compared to dps. Killing stuff is what wins games so I would never switch to my guardian from my necro or warrior. Playing bunker in a bad team is futile. Whereas on dps you can carry somewhat

But where is the limit? You see the opposing team and a couple of you change the class you are playing. The other team reacts to that by making their own changes. After that you make another set of changes as a response. You do this until the clock ticks out and the match starts?

maladikt.2180:

But where is the limit? You see the opposing team and a couple of you change the class you are playing. The other team reacts to that by making their own changes. After that you make another set of changes as a response. You do this until the clock ticks out and the match starts?

Exactly. It is lame. Espicially in a game where certain builds and classes counter other builds and classes.

You dont know which class is running which build. That assumption is a hyperbole. What we do know is the current balance requires a guardian bunker because it provides way more advantages for teamfights and CC.

Not having one in your team heavily crushes your chances of winning.

Well then, how do you know that guardian is playing a bunker so you need to swap to it yourself? My impression was that you said: “I see they have a guardian. We don’t have a guardian ourselves so i will switch to mine.” Then they could react to it in some other way etc.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

If you Queue up for Solo Arenas and your team has no bunker guardian but their team does, how will you address this now?

You are all missing the main point….

Yes bunkers are helpful but not life/death…

The issue is when you solo q and have a team of 5 of same profession. Then you have a balance issue.

This will restrict success to luck of comp you get (to a certain extent). This will be very interesting, how A-Net will handle that.

characterlocking on soloQ is a bad idea.

when it comes to that it will be again very luck dependant if you rise or fall in the ladder. every skill locked is a bad choice as well. you adapt your skills/specs to your enemy. thats what teams do in tournaments, why shouldnt you be able to do so in tPvP.

example: as a thief.. why bring pain response when the enemy is lacking any sort of condi damage (yeah hard to imagine in the current meta)

Maybe they should copy wow where you can queue as dps, healer or tank

maladikt.2180:

But where is the limit? You see the opposing team and a couple of you change the class you are playing. The other team reacts to that by making their own changes. After that you make another set of changes as a response. You do this until the clock ticks out and the match starts?

What if a chunk of the ISS breaks free and comes hurtling through the atmosphere midgame and its resulting crash severs your internet connection? What if a tornado blows through and you lose power?

That’s the kind of question you’ve thrown out there. You can’t shoot down what is a very legitimate concern (Bad team comp) with a silly “What if” scenario that doesn’t apply as universally as “Bad team comp”.

Beside One team having a bunker and the other team not having one (which WILL decide games against similarly skilled players, whether you believe it or not), there’s also a number of other scenario’s where players are going to want to switch out and balance their team – it doesn’t make any sense to lock character choice on solo q.

I do like something along the lines of what rerroll mentioned – allow people to select roles at que time – it wouldn’t be easy, and you’d have people identifying themselves incorrectly out of stupidity/trolling, but it’s better than locking a team of DPS down against a well built team for a 10 minute roflstomp.

Rerroll.9083:

Maybe they should copy wow where you can queue as dps, healer or tank

Or they should copy DotA where you actually select what you play as after the teams are formed and you can start discussing strategy with your teammates :p

When they implemented weapon locking etc… its only when the Match starts that second, maybe its the same for character locking.

stof.9341:

Rerroll.9083:

Maybe they should copy wow where you can queue as dps, healer or tank

Or they should copy DotA where you actually select what you play as after the teams are formed and you can start discussing strategy with your teammates :p

That won’t help, TBH. Most players aren’t proficient with multiple classes. If you get 2 players who primarily know Warrior, 2 who primarily know thief, and 1 who primarily knows Mesmer, who’s going to bunker?

They should create a lobby for our Rooster where we can call-out roles and stuff before going into the match and seeing the enemy team.

This way there is no “back-and-forth” character switching as you pointed out.

Moving the “I am ready” button to the Rooster UI and being able to talk to your Rooster members in chat would go a long way to improve SoloQ.

When everyone is in agreement and press “I am Ready” then they are moved from the Heart of the Mists to the Tournament Map, and then character locking takes place.

evilapprentice.6379:

That won’t help, TBH. Most players aren’t proficient with multiple classes. If you get 2 players who primarily know Warrior, 2 who primarily know thief, and 1 who primarily knows Mesmer, who’s going to bunker?

And so what? The top spots in the soloQ leaderboards would be reserved to the most polyvalent players? Is it bad?

Having people queue with a role in mind will give us back all the failings of the trinity system with the 50 “full group looking for a tank/healer”.

I can already see it. Hey guys, I know I’m a zerk D/D thief and you expected a bunker but queue times are awful as a DPS you know so I checked the bunker role instead. Instant match find is much better!

I think we should be allowed to switch characters up until the match begins.. anything after you get the leaver penalty.

Make it so it isn’t locked up until the match begins but you also can’t see your enemy until it begins, don’t open the gate and don’t show them on the scoreboard

With this idea there is NO downside to anybody’s point of view, this is of course the best and most obvious way to go about this problem (which is also the reason the complete opposite was implemented).

stof.9341:

evilapprentice.6379:

That won’t help, TBH. Most players aren’t proficient with multiple classes. If you get 2 players who primarily know Warrior, 2 who primarily know thief, and 1 who primarily knows Mesmer, who’s going to bunker?

And so what? The top spots in the soloQ leaderboards would be reserved to the most polyvalent players? Is it bad?

Yeah, it would be.

Like Lord, I don’t find it fun to play a bunker – should I be penalized for not liking one of the class options? Should we penalize people who don’t have the time to become proficient in multiple classes, just looking to have fun and be competitive with the 1 or 2 classes that they have time to play with?

That’s what Team que is for. Solo q is for the less serious player who still wants a challenge.

Jax.5261:

Make it so it isn’t locked up until the match begins but you also can’t see your enemy until it begins, don’t open the gate and don’t show them on the scoreboard

With this idea there is NO downside to anybody’s point of view, this is of course the best and most obvious way to go about this problem (which is also the reason the complete opposite was implemented).

This. This is the best compromise, clearly. Thread over Anet – just do it this way.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

You dont know which class is running which build. That assumption is a hyperbole. What we do know is the current balance requires a guardian bunker because it provides way more advantages for teamfights and CC.

Not having one in your team heavily crushes your chances of winning.

You are not wrong but not entirely correct. I have played tPvP on the past few days and I see a lot of pre-made team not running any Bunker, let alone Bunker Guardian and they do pretty well. What they have over is the flexibility the team comp provide and the feel that they do not need a bunker to win a game. My team,strictly speaking, have 1 Condi Engine uses Rapid Amulet, 1 Condi Necro, 1 Thief, 1 Warriror, 1 DPS Guardian and we do just fine, even better since we have mobility and flexibility.

Locking is fine. The situation the op mentions can happen in reverse. Thats what makes it balanced. There will be times where you can be potentially helped by this or hurt by this randomly. The moral to this story is play what you think is best and deal with the consequence. No cheese stacking thanks. If you think having a bunker is so important queue as one every time.

Kwll.1468:

Locking is fine. The situation the op mentions can happen in reverse. Thats what makes it balanced. There will be times where you can be potentially helped by this or hurt by this randomly. The moral to this story is play what you think is best and deal with the consequence. No cheese stacking thanks. If you think having a bunker is so important queue as one every time.

Except Jax’s suggestion is 100 times better. It allows 5 random players to work out what works best for them without being “Cheesy” at all because you can’t see the other teams comp. Why deny people the ability to work together just because its solo q?

evilapprentice.6379:

Kwll.1468:

Locking is fine. The situation the op mentions can happen in reverse. Thats what makes it balanced. There will be times where you can be potentially helped by this or hurt by this randomly. The moral to this story is play what you think is best and deal with the consequence. No cheese stacking thanks. If you think having a bunker is so important queue as one every time.

Except Jax’s suggestion is 100 times better. It allows 5 random players to work out what works best for them without being “Cheesy” at all because you can’t see the other teams comp. Why deny people the ability to work together just because its solo q?

I did state somewhat the same thing as Jax right here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Character-Locking-and-it-s-Problems-in-SoloQ/first#post2526971

Kwll.1468:

Locking is fine. The situation the op mentions can happen in reverse. Thats what makes it balanced. There will be times where you can be potentially helped by this or hurt by this randomly. The moral to this story is play what you think is best and deal with the consequence. No cheese stacking thanks. If you think having a bunker is so important queue as one every time.

That’s what makes it’s nature Random and just bad design.

It’s GW1 Random Arenas monk-syndrome all over again.

Hybrids will be the way too go in soloq. This way you can react easily to the your team comp and enemy comp. Well, that’s what I’ll be running anyway.

If people are so afraid of counter picking in then why don’t they just lock you in your base and not allow you to see what the enemy team has by pressing B? I can definitely see how being able to switch roles would be beneficial in Solo Que; being versatile and willing to help your team before the game even starts should not be punished.

I thought the entire point with soloQ was to have teams not class-wise adjusted to each other and just make the best of whatever you get. So I’m very happy if they lock classes at the start because otherwise it’s likely to become too much like teamQ (I play this class/build, you go get class/build x …). Also with regards to leaderboards and such. If the team comp is random every time (hoping nobody finds a way to exploit the system), then after a number of fights the results should even out and show your skill because you’d get an approximately even amount of good and bad teams. So random teams with class lock seems fair to me.

If you want to adjust a team comp, it seems to me that you may be happier doing teamQ instead, as adjusting a team and perfecting your team will likely be essential to teamQ.

Also if you communicate with your team during the fights (you can easily type while running between points/capturing points …), any class/build comp will be able to manage if the players are good and help each other well.

Basically what I’d like to see with soloQ is a result that depends on how you adapt to your team comp and make the best of it regardless what you get, instead of making a team comp to get an advantage from the start.

I think they’re planning to add character selection down the road.
If character locking starts the moment you pop in and then you log in on your 5 thief group and the other team is more well rounded…hope for the best.

Having a ready button before locking would work.
That way you can talk to team members for X minutes and be able to coordinate roles

-Bunker
-Far Point Assaulter
-etc etc you get the idea

Jax.5261:

Make it so it isn’t locked up until the match begins but you also can’t see your enemy until it begins, don’t open the gate and don’t show them on the scoreboard

With this idea there is NO downside to anybody’s point of view, this is of course the best and most obvious way to go about this problem (which is also the reason the complete opposite was implemented).

That would be fine. I think this is the best solution. I hate counter comping. It sucks. But comping to fit your team in solo q would be fine.

Kwll.1468:

Locking is fine. The situation the op mentions can happen in reverse. Thats what makes it balanced. There will be times where you can be potentially helped by this or hurt by this randomly. The moral to this story is play what you think is best and deal with the consequence. No cheese stacking thanks. If you think having a bunker is so important queue as one every time.

Agreed. Also remember skyhammer will be in the rotation. I really dont want to play this against everyone’s skyhammer build with so much cheese. Same with spirit watch. I want someone to queue their normal builds and adapt to the environment. That shows skill more than the other way round.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Agreed. Also remember skyhammer will be in the rotation. I really dont want to play this against everyone’s skyhammer build with so much cheese. Same with spirit watch. I want someone to queue their normal builds and adapt to the environment. That shows skill more than the other way round.

You know which map it is when you are asked to enter from the mists the first time anyway. You can probably switch to an skyhammer specialised alt already even with a lock.

Jax.5261:

Make it so it isn’t locked up until the match begins but you also can’t see your enemy until it begins, don’t open the gate and don’t show them on the scoreboard

With this idea there is NO downside to anybody’s point of view, this is of course the best and most obvious way to go about this problem (which is also the reason the complete opposite was implemented).

Well maybe give us a proper roster chat or even an interface!? So that we can disguss our builds and strategy before the match starts.
The problem with your suggestion is that people are still allowed to pick builds depending on the map which wont promote usage of all around builds.

stof.9341:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Agreed. Also remember skyhammer will be in the rotation. I really dont want to play this against everyone’s skyhammer build with so much cheese. Same with spirit watch. I want someone to queue their normal builds and adapt to the environment. That shows skill more than the other way round.

You know which map it is when you are asked to enter from the mists the first time anyway. You can probably switch to an skyhammer specialised alt already even with a lock.

Wait wont it be completely random after next patch?

Avead.5760:

Wait wont it be completely random after next patch?

The popup window tells the name of the map so random or not, you’ll know it before you join.

It will probably be locked after the game starts. /thread

Erwin.5603:

It will probably be locked after the game starts. /thread

Then we need a Dev Confirmation

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Erwin.5603:

It will probably be locked after the game starts. /thread

Then we need a Dev Confirmation

Not really. Currently your characters skills are only locked after the match starts, but you can log in and out to swap to a character with a different build (e.g., you may have a bunker ele and a spike ele, and you can switch between them mid-match even though skills are supposed to be locked).

Character locking is a fix for this blatant exploit.

Kharr.5746:

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

Erwin.5603:

It will probably be locked after the game starts. /thread

Then we need a Dev Confirmation

Not really. Currently your characters skills are only locked after the match starts, but you can log in and out to swap to a character with a different build (e.g., you may have a bunker ele and a spike ele, and you can switch between them mid-match even though skills are supposed to be locked).

Character locking is a fix for this blatant exploit.

And that has absolutely nothing to do with what we’re talking about here.

OP’s request is WHILE WAITING FOR A MATCH TO START, can players switch characters so we don’t get awful comps in soloq. OP and Jax suggested not letting teams see each others comp so people aren’t switching for the pure purpose counter-comp, but just so that they can have a competent team composition themselves.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Character locking doesn’t happen until the game start countdown. You still have the ready time to switch. This decision was made specifically in consideration for solo queue. We can always move when character locking begins, but when the feature launches, it will happen at the countdown. This feature is intended mostly to stop exploits where people would switch characters for different skill setups or to reset cooldowns.

Thanks for the clarification!

Does this also include weapon and skill choices? As in, will Necros still be able to start matches with Life Force and Eles be able to give their team swiftness with staff before switching weapons?

rsq.3581:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Character locking doesn’t happen until the game start countdown. You still have the ready time to switch. This decision was made specifically in consideration for solo queue. We can always move when character locking begins, but when the feature launches, it will happen at the countdown. This feature is intended mostly to stop exploits where people would switch characters for different skill setups or to reset cooldowns.

Thanks for the clarification!

Does this also include weapon and skill choices? As in, will Necros still be able to start matches with Life Force and Eles be able to give their team swiftness with staff before switching weapons?

The life force should be fixed, but the swiftness through other weapons should definitely stay as I think it provides a neat little strategy with some risk involved aswell if you happen to not swap out in time

Evan Lesh.3295:

Character locking doesn’t happen until the game start countdown. You still have the ready time to switch. This decision was made specifically in consideration for solo queue. We can always move when character locking begins, but when the feature launches, it will happen at the countdown. This feature is intended mostly to stop exploits where people would switch characters for different skill setups or to reset cooldowns.

Personally, I think it should lock the second you get in there OR you shouldn’t be able to see what you are playing against until the game starts.

Quickfoot Katana.8642:

rsq.3581:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Character locking doesn’t happen until the game start countdown. You still have the ready time to switch. This decision was made specifically in consideration for solo queue. We can always move when character locking begins, but when the feature launches, it will happen at the countdown. This feature is intended mostly to stop exploits where people would switch characters for different skill setups or to reset cooldowns.

Thanks for the clarification!

Does this also include weapon and skill choices? As in, will Necros still be able to start matches with Life Force and Eles be able to give their team swiftness with staff before switching weapons?

The life force should be fixed, but the swiftness through other weapons should definitely stay as I think it provides a neat little strategy with some risk involved aswell if you happen to not swap out in time

The risk is there in both of those scenarios.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Ashanor.5319:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Character locking doesn’t happen until the game start countdown. You still have the ready time to switch. This decision was made specifically in consideration for solo queue. We can always move when character locking begins, but when the feature launches, it will happen at the countdown. This feature is intended mostly to stop exploits where people would switch characters for different skill setups or to reset cooldowns.

Personally, I think it should lock the second you get in there OR you shouldn’t be able to see what you are playing against until the game starts.

I agree there is still the problem of counter picking after joining a match. I’m sure we’ll find a middle ground with these issues.

There were a couple of sugestions for adressing the counter-picking issue in this same thread

Evan Lesh.3295:

Ashanor.5319:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Character locking doesn’t happen until the game start countdown. You still have the ready time to switch. This decision was made specifically in consideration for solo queue. We can always move when character locking begins, but when the feature launches, it will happen at the countdown. This feature is intended mostly to stop exploits where people would switch characters for different skill setups or to reset cooldowns.

Personally, I think it should lock the second you get in there OR you shouldn’t be able to see what you are playing against until the game starts.

I agree there is still the problem of counter picking after joining a match. I’m sure we’ll find a middle ground with these issues.

I don’t think there really should be any type of counter picking at all. It just creates a cheesy kind of system in my opinion. You joined with this team and see their team so now you want to switch to a class that will counter their team? Sorry. Maybe your team should be more diverse in the first place. It is possible that if we didn’t have counter picking, it would significantly change the meta.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Ashanor.5319:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Character locking doesn’t happen until the game start countdown. You still have the ready time to switch. This decision was made specifically in consideration for solo queue. We can always move when character locking begins, but when the feature launches, it will happen at the countdown. This feature is intended mostly to stop exploits where people would switch characters for different skill setups or to reset cooldowns.

Personally, I think it should lock the second you get in there OR you shouldn’t be able to see what you are playing against until the game starts.

I agree there is still the problem of counter picking after joining a match. I’m sure we’ll find a middle ground with these issues.

Why go for the middle ground. The only way to ensure complete fairness is a double blind set up where professions are not revealed until the match begins, and classes are then locked at that point.