Guild Wars 2

I need some guidance here.

I’ve just recently (in WvW) run into several rangers that have an unexplainable ability to repeatedly root me and nuke me with conditions. Instantly.
It seems like all in one shot, I’m rooted and have 5-6 conditions on me.
Ok, no worries, cleansed… 10-15 seconds later, I’m in the same situation.
The ranger’s HPs seem to hold up against my attacks, but their conditions tear me apart.

I’m not a pro-level player or anywhere close, but I can usually hold my own 1v1 against most opponents.

This just isn’t the case here.

Can somebody help me here? Every time I run into one of these rangers, i’m dead. They have more mobility so, I can’t even turn and run…

Maybe they were using this Druid trait.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ancient_Seeds

The power of sylvari druids outside of sPvP.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grasping_Vines

Yeah, Ancient Seeds looks about right. It doesn’t explain all the conditions though.

I guess if I want to keep playing WvW I’ll have to roll a ranger, thief or guardian…

Do you have heart of thorns?
Revenant is really good at removing conditions with ventari’s tablet, and I’d love to see more ventari revs in WvW. I use it in WvW and it’s pretty fun.

edit: I specifically use mallyx/ventari in wvw. With conditions being so common nowadays it helps to use that combo for immunity to conditions and condition removal.

Stormsong.1758:

I need some guidance here.

I’ve just recently (in WvW) run into several rangers that have an unexplainable ability to repeatedly root me and nuke me with conditions. Instantly.
It seems like all in one shot, I’m rooted and have 5-6 conditions on me.
Ok, no worries, cleansed… 10-15 seconds later, I’m in the same situation.
The ranger’s HPs seem to hold up against my attacks, but their conditions tear me apart.

I’m not a pro-level player or anywhere close, but I can usually hold my own 1v1 against most opponents.

This just isn’t the case here.

Can somebody help me here? Every time I run into one of these rangers, i’m dead. They have more mobility so, I can’t even turn and run…

Don’t call them a cheat and unfair just because you cannot handle them. It makes you look bad.

AncientYs.8613:

Don’t call them a cheat and unfair just because you cannot handle them. It makes you look bad.

@AncientYs I assume you didn’t actually read his post. Try reading it before responding. He was asking for clarification about a class.

Jwake.7013:

AncientYs.8613:

Don’t call them a cheat and unfair just because you cannot handle them. It makes you look bad.

@AncientYs I assume you didn’t actually read his post. Try reading it before responding. He was asking for clarification about a class.

yeah okay fair point, but he was also pointing out that this class was being a cheat and unfair. That’s the part that bothered me about the OP’s post.

Granted.
I was a little upset when I started the post, but calmed down while typing it.

It just seems that even though GW2 claims customization and freedom in how you play, there are cases (WvW) where that is not true.

There are builds like this Ranger and Theif builds that allow the player to lock others down and destroy them quickly. The only way for me to avoid this is to slot “escape” skills, which then reduces my ability to apply dps.

I main a Necromancer. I have limited mobility compared to other “WvW friendly” classes. If a Thief tries to run from me… he’s going to get away. Same for Warrior, Guardian, Elementalist…
Necros have a few really good cleanses. My primary problem with the Ranger build was that even after dropping all my conditions, before I could provide any significant damage, I was rooted and filled with conditions again. Stack that with a pet that can stun, then we have a Ranger that can completely shut me down and kill me before I can do anything.
This is not an “I can’t handle this” issue. It becomes an issue because there is no way for me to deal with that build without sacrificing my ability to do damage… in which case, we’re back to me dying, only this time, I lose because my dps won’t hold up.

That’s the unfairness issue.
As far as cheating goes… I’m just not sure how, in the time it takes me to attack 1-2 times, they have hit me with immobility as well as enough damage and conditions to kill me in short order. It seems to me that should be several attacks.
I don’t understand how someone can spam that many attacks so quickly. Seems like a bot or a macro to me.
If it’s not, well, that’s what I was asking… what kind of traits/skills are they using?

Stormsong.1758:

Yeah, Ancient Seeds looks about right. It doesn’t explain all the conditions though.

I guess if I want to keep playing WvW I’ll have to roll a ranger, thief or guardian…

Rangers have a huge assortment of condition applying attacks and utilities…

Shortbow: bleed, poison, cripple, daze, stun
Sword: cripple, poison
Axe: bleed, chill, weakness
Dagger: poison, bleed, cripple
Torch: burn
Spirits: chill, burn, immobilize, vulnerability
Survival: cripple, immobilize, bleed
Traps: burn, chill, bleed, poison

And thats without traits, runes, or sigils.

Stormsong.1758:

Necros have a few really good cleanses.

This makes me really question how your having trouble… necros have some of the best condi clenses in the game… you have multiple ways to send your condis back at your attackers even…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Putrid_Mark
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Signet
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Suffer!%22

Not to mention several ways to make conditions benefitial to you…

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Consume_Conditions
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Well_of_Power
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grim_Specter

Necros are practically immune to conditions with how many options they have.

Which is why I wonder how he kept me locked down and conditioned…

Also, as I said, some of those require skill slots that I wasn’t willing to give up.
But, it still shouldn’t have been that one-sided.

Stormsong.1758:

There are builds like this Ranger and Theif builds that allow the player to lock others down and destroy them quickly. The only way for me to avoid this is to slot “escape” skills, which then reduces my ability to apply dps.

That’s exactly what happens in a balanced game: the ranger or thief has committed to an approach that depends on their ability to lock & burst; your ‘meta game, roaming edition’ is to bring a build that can resist that. Meantime, they are vulnerable to battles-of-attrition, because an equally-skilled player that can break the lock is going to hurt them.

It’s like a complicated version of Rock Scissors Paper — if your build is just Paper, you’ll be shredded by any Scissors you encounter, but you’ll be OP’d vs Rocks.

I don’t mean to suggest that things are perfectly balanced. I just mean it’s not sufficient to say, “this guy ganked me before I had time to blink”. One the worst fights I had was when I was 2v1 against an anti-stun warrior build — I had a power chrono & my buddy was running condinecro and we were toasted. The warrior didn’t stay stunned (sometimes reversed them against me), timed their dodges perfectly, and took their time getting in one good hit every 5-6 seconds.

I had no idea what happened, so I posted in the warrior forum describing what I observed and asking if anyone caught the license plate of the truck that hit me (over and over again). People gave me the names of the relevant traits & utilities and the next time I went out, I was better prepared. (Mind you: on my best day, I’m still not as skilled as that guy is on his worst.)

tl;dr the place to start is by understanding what other players bring to the fight and rebuilding accordingly.

Thanks. You make very valid points.
So, what about builds like the thief that try to nuke me, fail, but don’t get killed because they can just leap away from me?
One of the most frustrating things for me, as a Necro, in WvW has been that even if I build tough, and survive the initial barrage, it doesn’t matter because those players just zip off and come back when their cooldowns expire.

This Ranger build is just the latest in line. I’d have less of an issue if I had any chance of winning these fights.

In case anyone is interested, it looks like the build in question was using :
Sharpening Stone, Concussion Shot, Poison Volley, <swap> RapidFire, Ancient Seeds

There may have been some other traits, not sure.

ALL players in a competitive environment bring skills that allow them to survive an attack (and if they don’t they’re either don’t understand how to play yet like you, or just bad players.)

DPS is the least of your concerns when fighting humans. ALWAYS take at least 1 stun break and as much condi removal as is realistic. It’s not all applicable for necros, but blocks, invluns, blinds, evades, reflects, etc. are all important.

I can pretty much guarantee you, as a ranger main, that the entire right hand side of the skillbar of every ranger you’ve fought has been dedicated to defense. If your bar isn’t looking similar, you’re probably going to get slaughtered.

Stormsong.1758:

So, what about builds like the thief that try to nuke me, fail, but don’t get killed because they can just leap away from me?

The bane of every roamers existence to be sure. The only way to win a knife fight with a thief is to bring a pistol. For example:

• If alone, I run from thieves and port away — I can sometimes win, but it takes forever; I’d rather do something more useful for my world. (PS there are plenty of bad thieves out there, so it’s definitely possible to beat them at their game; I just don’t like it.)
• If not alone, I alert my party mates to the thief’s presence and we 2v1 — requires at least once of us to be super mobile.

There are just some builds that I can’t beat quickly and some players (well, to be fair, lots of players) that are far more skilled than I. I don’t bother fighting fair — this is WvW, not sPvP, so I’d rather get the kill and be accused of being unable to 1v1 than let the other player prove that they can beat me with their build+madskillz.

tl;dr don’t try to win every 1v1; just make sure you can live to fight somewhere else.

It’s also worth pointing out that necro is inarguably the worst profession to roam on in the entire game. And that’s fine, because they’re a staple of zerg fights (and team fights in PvP.)

Necros have an unusual way of being balanced that perfectly suits them to larger scale fights.

If you want to roam, either get some buddies or accept that you’re entering the world of thieves, rangers, and mesmers, which excel at 1v1 or small scale fights. Conversely those 3 professions are bad or have to run extremely specific builds in zerg fights.

You should probably change the title.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

tl;dr don’t try to win every 1v1; just make sure you can live to fight somewhere else.

Actually, I disagree with this one.

In order to learn from your mistakes and learn how classes work against each other, you should in fact engage and try to win every single 1v1. The only path to becoming a better player is through loads of dying, over and over again.

Eventually, after getting your behind kicked enough, you’ll start to notice you react faster, read the opponent’s movements faster, and create your own plans in your mind much faster. You’ll start recognizing which classes have which skills, and which classes you can likely counter easier than others.

Also, just in case you haven’t already, check some builds online specifically created for WvW roaming and fighting. As others have said, Necro shines in team combat more than solo, but is definitely deadly on 1v1s when played correctly.

The learning curve is steep, but so it was for everyone at first. Even for those condi lockdown rangers, who probably got one-shot all the time in the beginning too. Then they learned how to avoid that, and are now doing the same to other players who don’t know how to defend themselves properly.

Balance does not indicate that all classes are equal in every scenario. As in PvE, each class is adapted to some purpose. They each have advantages and disadvantages.

I watched the PvP finals video someone shared recently from the thief POV. If you watch the video, you’ll see that the thief doesn’t waste much time on 1v1. Instead, he uses his high speed to neutralize enemy capture points and get the jump on enemies engaging his teammates. In fact, at several points he decaps without capping the point for his team and downs enemy players without finishing them. Why? Because it’s more important for him to keep moving, decapping and +1-ing for his team.

In that context, it doesn’t matter if the thief is weak in 1v1, whether he can bunker a point, or provide awesome support in team fights. He’s probably terrible (relative to other classes of the same skill level) at all of those things. But watching the video, you really get the feeling that this guy is using his class to do exactly what it does best in PvP and making a huge impact on the outcome of the game in the process.

I’m sure if we watched from the POV of each class at that level we’ll see the same exact thing. Are they all equal? Of course not. But such is balance. It’s never perfect. All you can do is make the best of what your class can do.

Thanks for all the comments and opinions.

I honestly was expecting more of a flame war and was pleasantly /surprised by the quality and maturity of the answers.

I honestly thought that the build was some kind of cheat. But I’ve been able to verify that such a build exists and that this is not the case.
It appears that with the trait/combo listed above, it is indeed possible to immobilize + condi and repeat within 20 seconds.
Go team Ranger.

Thanks again!

i don’t keep up w necro patchnotes, but if this build hasn’t been nerfed you should just play it https://youtu.be/xxAhbc5lS7Q

The roots put out by Ancient Seeds is like a mini-Entangle. The immobilize ends immediately if you kill the roots, which have an object health bar. Cleansing then rolling out of the roots is an iffy thing because of the pulsing immobilize.

If the Druid is going Staff/LB and fully intending to kite you out, he has the kit to do it.

The best chance you have is stunbreaking his LB knockback immediately to prevent Ancient Seeds proccing, apply Chill and close distance to burst/load with Condi immediately, forcing a Celestial Avatar early or if he doesn’t, make him blow his CDs like Signet of Renewal/Stone.

Druid will likely rely on passive pet transfer or CA to remove conditions, which make Condi Necro a better matchup than say, Power Necro.

Stormsong.1758:

I need some guidance here.

I’ve just recently (in WvW) run into several rangers that have an unexplainable ability to repeatedly root me and nuke me with conditions. Instantly.
It seems like all in one shot, I’m rooted and have 5-6 conditions on me.
Ok, no worries, cleansed… 10-15 seconds later, I’m in the same situation.
The ranger’s HPs seem to hold up against my attacks, but their conditions tear me apart.

I’m not a pro-level player or anywhere close, but I can usually hold my own 1v1 against most opponents.

This just isn’t the case here.

Can somebody help me here? Every time I run into one of these rangers, i’m dead. They have more mobility so, I can’t even turn and run…

Is it just me or are you just completely in the wrong forum section?
WvW is one down mate..

The thread was originally in the General Discussion forum, but got moved here (by accident, I believe).

If this happened in WvW, why is this post in the PvP forum? In fact, this should just be in the ranger forum because it doesn’t even really have anything relevant to WvW.

Also, welcome to fighting Druids. Sudden range attacks locking you in place with almost no counterplay. Basically, you also have to play a high damage range spec, except the only other one is DH which Druid counters. Actually, come to think of it, thief could work because they have enough dodges to avoid the big attacks and can just dodge out of the root.