Chronomancer? Not really.

Chronomancer? Not really.

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Posted by: DrDivine.5378

DrDivine.5378

I get that chrono bunker was OP at launch and I like playing mine even now. The problem is that I feel more like a Mesmer+ as in, there’s really not anything added besides continuum split and the shield.

For something called a chronomancer, I expected use of quickness and slow, manipulating time/the flow of battle. Even the wells don’t really add anything, were using almost all the same tools we did as a regular mesmer. Here’s a few comparisons:

Berserker: In your face high damage, what I expected

Daredevil: Dodging around hitting people, again, what I expected

Scrapper: Excellent use of gyros and hammer, what I expected

Druid: Pretty close, patches up what ranger always lacked, good support and healing

Dragonhunter: A person who hunts dragons using a longbow and setting traps, yeah what I expected

Tempest: The most confusing, I actually had no expectations for this one so I can’t say much with a name like that. At least it’s useful

Reaper: Chills, giant scythe, condi damage, yeah pretty accurate

Herald: Barely worth mentioning, Herald IS revenant, might as well call it that instead of revenant because revenant has never gotten any use lol

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

Its because the chrono line was used to fix a bunch of problems with base mesmer design. That’s why it got not 1 but 2 traits related to keeping our illusion up through shatters, as well as a unique mechanic to decrease CDs to get our illusions out faster when they die, because they die so quickly. We also got another trait to ensure our shatters land, because with how fragile they are it was easy to kite and kill them before they hit you if they didn’t have superspeed.

Almost 1/3 of the entire line was devoted to patching problems in core mesmer design, but they overdid it. Instead of fixing the root problem they gave us rather OP traits to make these problems not a problem, which meant that the chronomancer specific stuff had to be nerfed to bring the traitline as a whole in line (wells, our synergy around slow. But the sustain nerfs were needed, I admit that).

What chrono needs is for phantasms to be redesigned from the ground up to be utility summons, all illusion generation traits need to be changed, buff the 3 traits in chrono line revolving around Slow to make them meaningful and powerful if you take all 3, improve wells (its just downright strange that WoC has the lowest per tick damage on the first two ticks out of all of the wells that deal damage). Then chrono would feel more like a time manipulation class instead of mesmer+

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

I’m glad more people are voicing these concerns about Chrono and Mesmers in general. The feeling of a time manipulator is all but completely gone from the profession, as literally everything related to that aspect has been watered down to the point of being almost meaningless.

Slow was once a powerful debuff, now it’s not something anyone will waste a cleanse on. (Besides, it doesn’t last nearly long enough for it’s effect, so just ignore it and save that cleanse for something that will actually kill you.) It’s at best a cover condition.

Alacrity is the same story. Still OPd in PvE, but goes almost entirely unnoticed in PvP and I don’t mean just by your team, but by Mesmers themselves. Again way too short of a duration after a 50% nerf to the effect. Simply poor balancing. Nuff said.

Then you have CS that was one of the staples, but for obvious reasons is little more than an Elite doubling ability, which is again poorly “balanced” out by overly long CDs on mostly meaningless Elites. (As compared to other professions Elites!) Any way you slice it though, popping even relatively poor Elites with overly long CDs back-to-back remains powerful if not overpowered. CS should never have worked on Elites, and should be more about juking, obfuscation, and confusing your enemy, rather than “pop it and use as much crap as you can before it’s over.”

And yes Wells. Wow what to say!? What a waste of resources poured into something, only to then nerf it to the point where at least 2/3rds of it is completely wasted effort. Most Wells are useless, overnerfed, and so is the AWTEW trait. The whole concept of back-loading is flawed outside of maybe PvE, and worst is that even if someone is dumb enough to stick around for the 3rd tick, it’s still completely negligible in most cases anyway! If I telegraph something that well, it should have a very meaningufl impact! (Especially since the AE is rather small!)

It will be almost kinda entertaining to see how the next Elite for Mesmers will handle all the QoL stuff that Anet chose to put into Chrono rather than fixing the core flawed design of the profession. (Lacking a viable passive 25% speed option, slow shattered illusions, lacking illusion generation, lacking personal defenses, overly long CDs on almost everything, etc.)

We’ll be right back to complaining about all the same things we complained about for years before HoT! lol!

(edited by Windwalker.7421)

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Majority of thieves don’t run bound, just saying. Should i also remind you that Anet heavily nerfed acro to introduce DD = acro v2.0, so not only they just reselled existing trait line, it also didn’t add any new aspect to thief, when we start to talk about disappointing aspect of elite specs.

As far as chrono goes, in pve i use pretty much only chrono spells, don’t forget pvp isn’t only aspect of this game. As chrono you have guaranteed spot in raids due to quickness and alacrity.

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

(edited by Cynz.9437)

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Posted by: Terrorsquad.2349

Terrorsquad.2349

I have to agree with Cynz concerning thieves.
All we got was Acrobatics 2.0, so nothing really changed except for 2 dodges more (traited).

“Dodging around hitting people” that’s what thieves do since start of the game.
That’s basically what all classes do, whereas Thieves excel at.

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Posted by: DrDivine.5378

DrDivine.5378

I have to agree with Cynz concerning thieves.
All we got was Acrobatics 2.0, so nothing really changed except for 2 dodges more (traited).

“Dodging around hitting people” that’s what thieves do since start of the game.
That’s basically what all classes do, whereas Thieves excel at.

It’s a good argument concerning thieves and daredevils, here is the main difference for me. When they first revealed daredevil, a super athletic class with a staff/pole dodging around. Yeah it wasn’t too much different from thief as thats kinda what they already did minus the staff, but it did what it advertised. Dodging even more and hitting people.

Chronomancer, manipulator of time, doesn’t really use much time manipulation, this doesn’t mean I think chrono currently sucks or doesn’t play “well”, but I feel like I’m playing vanilla mesmer if that makes sense. If I wasn’t using the shield and CS I’d probably forget lol

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Posted by: Silv.9207

Silv.9207

The elite specializzations fixed a lot of things that was bad in the core classes.
I play necro as main but also play guardian and they got two totally different kind of elite specializzation.
The reaper just fixed a lot of issues from the necromancer: gave stability and a leap to a class without any kind of movement skill proud of this name (wurm? spectral walk? just bad things to move around in a match), granted synergie with Soul reaping traits like Dhuumfire 8that is seriously bad for the death shroud) and granted a condi “burst” skill 8still if you need a trait, a ice field and your skill take 4 seconds to fully land, then it’s not properly a burst, not at all…).
But in truth that elite specializzation don’t grant anything new to the necromancer. We’re still struck into a boon corruption spec without high damage and without high survavibility (in a PvP enviroment) and with a poor direct damage build that try to shine but can’t because of the old problems of the power weapons. And the GS is the worst weapon of this game… It’s the only direct damage AoE weapon of the necromancer, that’s all I can say good about this weapon.
Basicly nothing changed for a Necromancer from before HoT and now, no new role, no new weapon (no one use the gs if not for fun), no new mechanic. it’s only cool to see and play.

Then there’s the Dragonhunter:
The rework on his mechanic is poor, just a little rework on the virtues (needed only to make a combo with Spear of Justice and survive a little better with the F3 that no one activated before HoT if not to obtain protection and retalation.
But he obtained Traps and Longbow. Guardians needed a real ranged weapon and ANet gave them a extremly strong ranged weapon. They needed a damage Utility and ANet gave them Traps. They obtained a new dps role, totally new opportunities to play in WvW and sPvP, they obtained the perfect rework to be the Ranged DPS class everyone was waiting for.

The Guardian obtained a mechanic rework similar to the necromancer, or even smaller, but obtained something the necro didn’t: a New Role, a New way to Play.

But for the Mesmer is even better! The Chronomancer is one of the best rework ever!
You obtained spectacular traits that fix all the main class issue (shatter with superspeed, clone regeneration and a Totally Free 25% speed!) but also a really strong Weapon that granted to the class a Block for 3 seconds that spam clones that spam Slow and Alacrity! And Stun AoE, block projectiles and grant Quickness!
You also obtained a full dedicated Boon and a more or less unique Condition! You can spam Alacrity and Slow and only you can do that! Only your illusions can seriously spam it, while other classes can’t.
If that’s not enough. you obtained a totally New Fx skill that grant you to revert time, obtain all your previous skills and hp, granting you to fight an enemy and fight it again with the same hp, the same skills, grant you to double active moa and shatter. isn’t that enough to make it the best elite ever?
Then you obtained Wells, that used with the shield grant you a totally New Role!
You can play as a support bunker, grant alacrity and quickness to your allies, slow to your enemies, stun, chill, grant aegis and stability. You can be a totally new bunker/supporter class no other class can be. in fact, at the release of HoT the chronomancer was totally unkillable and a good chrono was able to make his team win by himself.

The mesmer obtained the best Fx rework, an incredible amount of strong traits, a weapon that grant him a lot of utility and survavibility (to a previously pure squishy class!), good utility skills that grant him to support and defend in a way no other class can do and a totally new Role.

Seriously, what do you want more than that?

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Posted by: OriOri.8724

OriOri.8724

I want the design problems to be fixed at the core level. A very large amount of the chrono line went to fixing core mesmer design problems, which you realized. So this means that with new elite specs these problems will either not be fixed (which would be awful to lose them), or they will be fixed in the new elite spec, so a good ~30-40% of the next elite spec that we get will be focused around fixing these same problems, effectively giving us ~60-70% of a new elite spec.

Plus, just about every aspect of chronomancer has been nerfed repeatedly since it was released. Would be nice to fix the core mesmer problems in base traitlines and then redesign parts of chronomancer so it actually revolves around quickness and slow in all game modes, instead of just a quickness buffer in raids and a bunkery mesmer in PvP.

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Posted by: Terrorsquad.2349

Terrorsquad.2349

I have to agree with Cynz concerning thieves.
All we got was Acrobatics 2.0, so nothing really changed except for 2 dodges more (traited).

“Dodging around hitting people” that’s what thieves do since start of the game.
That’s basically what all classes do, whereas Thieves excel at.

It’s a good argument concerning thieves and daredevils, here is the main difference for me. When they first revealed daredevil, a super athletic class with a staff/pole dodging around. Yeah it wasn’t too much different from thief as thats kinda what they already did minus the staff, but it did what it advertised. Dodging even more and hitting people.

Chronomancer, manipulator of time, doesn’t really use much time manipulation, this doesn’t mean I think chrono currently sucks or doesn’t play “well”, but I feel like I’m playing vanilla mesmer if that makes sense. If I wasn’t using the shield and CS I’d probably forget lol

If we are looking at that way, black and white, then I have to say Anet delivered what they said in their promotion about Chrono’s.

Slow makes us attack slower while you can attack much faster (quickness).

You can’t expect a time manipulator in terms of going back into time in PvP, that would even hurt their servers lol.

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Posted by: Windwalker.7421

Windwalker.7421

Wow someone has rose colored glasses on! The grass really is greener on our side, come on in and find out for yourself!

lol!

I can do the same kind of write up about any Elite spec, simply naming off the list of changes that sound great on paper. However, that doesn’t say anything about their relative performance/competitiveness, certainly not their feel (which is what this thread was about), and lastly it says nothing about whether the changes were good or bad for the profession as a whole.

With fixing so many core Mesmer issues in Chrono, Anet has done nothing but make Chrono mandatory, and kicked the can down the road. Now new Elites are coming and you can only choose one…now what? lolz! Very brilliant design decisions. Now you either have to copy some of this stuff into the new Elite, or finally fix the core Mesmer…or you will almost certainly render the new Elite DOA. (unless of course you make it absurdly OPd…—cough like HoT—…and then end up spending a year nerfing stuff and alienating your player-base in the process…—cough like HoT cough!—)

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Posted by: Daishi.6027

Daishi.6027

Chrono’s fixes for mesmer’s resources should have been innate to mesmer long before HoT. Base mesmer was like a thief without the ini regen skills and traits.

As for not feeling like a “Chronomancer” CS is fine, although could use some tweaks so it doesn’t feel so clunky. Like channeled or casting skills during CS’s end should reset, should also set and reset condis properly, weapon swap reset, no global cooldowns after resetting, and proper functionality with Mantras.

Alacrity did feel pretty good, and was similar to effects like in Final Fantasy’s Time mage, but that got nerfed to the point of feeling pretty bad in pvp. (and was still nerfed even after the dev’s claims of 66% dps was debunked in PvE, and was a non issue outside of chrono bunk in PvP but precog change alone fixed that. )

The nerfs to Precog was justified, but now it’s a poorly designed skill.

Quickness felt good at first, but the global nerfs were justified since everyone rezzed so fast, however without the utility and thanks to the nerf to alacrity, it now feels pretty bad compared to double phantasm.

Slow would be good… But it’s not very effective with the lack of consistency, if it was every 3rd or 4th crit it might be better, but even then it would still under performs compared to to the other options.

“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”

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Posted by: DrDivine.5378

DrDivine.5378

Chrono’s fixes for mesmer’s resources should have been innate to mesmer long before HoT. Base mesmer was like a thief without the ini regen skills and traits.

As for not feeling like a “Chronomancer” CS is fine, although could use some tweaks so it doesn’t feel so clunky. Like channeled or casting skills during CS’s end should reset, should also set and reset condis properly, weapon swap reset, no global cooldowns after resetting, and proper functionality with Mantras.

Alacrity did feel pretty good, and was similar to effects like in Final Fantasy’s Time mage, but that got nerfed to the point of feeling pretty bad in pvp. (and was still nerfed even after the dev’s claims of 66% dps was debunked in PvE, and was a non issue outside of chrono bunk in PvP but precog change alone fixed that. )

The nerfs to Precog was justified, but now it’s a poorly designed skill.

Quickness felt good at first, but the global nerfs were justified since everyone rezzed so fast, however without the utility and thanks to the nerf to alacrity, it now feels pretty bad compared to double phantasm.

Slow would be good… But it’s not very effective with the lack of consistency, if it was every 3rd or 4th crit it might be better, but even then it would still under performs compared to to the other options.

I agree that the nerfs were justified, contstant quickness speed rezzing people while being a god tank with reduced cds via alacrity was too much haha.

By doing this though, they basically stripped away what made a chronomancer, it can’t use slow well, it can’t use quickness well, it can’t use wells…. well (lol) and alacrity has also been nerfed.

This isn’t a chronomancer, this is a condi phantasm mesmer with slightly less cds.