Guild Wars 2

First of all, sorry about my poor English. What i am trying to mention in this post is the importance of dueling in this game. Seems that most people on this forum thought GW2 is a team based game and so duel shouldn’t be on high working priority. However, duel is the core element which makes team based game balance. Dueling arena may not be the top priority but balancing classes based on duel should be.

Lets begin with the current mechanism of tPvP, Basically, most team formed up by 1 bunker + 2 roamer +1 supporter + 1 side node holder (sure there are variety, but this is the basic formation of a team). Normally, besides the team fight started at the very beginning of the middle node or sometimes the side node, tPvP is all about how the roamer/supporter support around the side point and middle point. base on this, which means most of the time, the side node holder and middle node holder needs to duel or even handle couple enemies on their own until their roamer/supporter come. apart from that, almost every team pick their side node holder base on how good they can duel meanwhile with some mobility. No victorious can be gain if a team lose every single duel in the match.

In fact, There are just some classes good at dueling in nature than others at the current meta, this is not about HOW you build your class, it is all about WHAT class you are. And that is also why some class are so popular in tPvP and some doesn’t even show up.

Just an example. How can a basketball team be pro if the player itself is not? Can you imagine Lakers are full of unskilled noobs who cant even dribble properly and still get the championship? That cant be possible because a good team is based on skillful player. TEAMWORK is based on PERSONAL SKILL. A team works well because people inside the team does well personally + communication with each other. Same sense, how can a so called team based game neglect class duel balance as it is the essential part of team fight balance? as the current tPvP meta need good dueler in a team, balancing through class duel is a must in my opinion. Surely the devs can balance the class secretly and test by their own. But a better way to do that should be implant the duel arena without ranking, let player test it out and take their suggestion for class balancing. So, please give us duel arena

What is your thought about it?

xiNe.6958:

First of all, sorry about my poor English. What i am trying to mention in this post is the importance of dueling in this game. Seems that most people on this forum thought GW2 is a team based game and so duel shouldn’t be on high working priority. However, duel is the core element which makes team based game balance. Dueling arena may not be the top priority but balancing classes based on duel should be.

Lets begin with the current mechanism of tPvP, Basically, most team formed up by 1 bunker + 2 roamer +1 supporter + 1 side node holder (sure there are variety, but this is the basic formation of a team). Normally, besides the team fight started at the very beginning of the middle node or sometimes the side node, tPvP is all about how the roamer/supporter support around the side point and middle point. base on this, which means most of the time, the side node holder and middle node holder needs to duel or even handle couple enemies on their own until their roamer/supporter come. apart from that, almost every team pick their side node holder base on how good they can duel meanwhile with some mobility. No victorious can be gain if a team lose every single duel in the match.

In fact, There are just some classes good at dueling in nature than others at the current meta, this is not about HOW you build your class, it is all about WHAT class you are. And that is also why some class are so popular in tPvP and some doesn’t even show up.

Just an example. How can a basketball team be pro if the player itself is not? Can you imagine Lakers are full of unskilled noobs who cant even dribble properly and still get the championship? That cant be possible because a good team is based on skillful player. TEAMWORK is based on PERSONAL SKILL. A team works well because people inside the team does well personally + communication with each other. Same sense, how can a so called team based game neglect class duel balance as it is the essential part of team fight balance? as the current tPvP meta need good dueler in a team, balancing through class duel is a must in my opinion. Surely the devs can balance the class secretly and test by their own. But a better way to do that should be implant the duel arena without ranking, let player test it out and take their suggestion for class balancing. So, please give us duel arena

What is your thought about it?

This is guild wars not street fighter. Oh and balancing a game for 1v1 is completely different than balancing a game in a team style game. Good luck balancing one without kittening up the other.

This is guild wars not street fighter. Oh and balancing a game for 1v1 is completely different than balancing a game in a team style game. Good luck balancing one without kittening up the other.

if so, why the 5v5 conquest emphasize so much on personal level skill and why is it there? should they make the game be like 16v16 or sth similar which fit the role more to “Guild Wars”?

Guild Wars is already happening in WvW, you can found what you want in it. PvP is abbreviation of Player versus Player which means its should more concern on individual level.

xiNe.6958:

First of all, sorry about my poor English. What i am trying to mention in this post is the importance of dueling in this game. Seems that most people on this forum thought GW2 is a team based game and so duel shouldn’t be on high working priority. However, duel is the core element which makes team based game balance. Dueling arena may not be the top priority but balancing classes based on duel should be.

Lets begin with the current mechanism of tPvP, Basically, most team formed up by 1 bunker + 2 roamer +1 supporter + 1 side node holder (sure there are variety, but this is the basic formation of a team). Normally, besides the team fight started at the very beginning of the middle node or sometimes the side node, tPvP is all about how the roamer/supporter support around the side point and middle point. base on this, which means most of the time, the side node holder and middle node holder needs to duel or even handle couple enemies on their own until their roamer/supporter come. apart from that, almost every team pick their side node holder base on how good they can duel meanwhile with some mobility. No victorious can be gain if a team lose every single duel in the match.

In fact, There are just some classes good at dueling in nature than others at the current meta, this is not about HOW you build your class, it is all about WHAT class you are. And that is also why some class are so popular in tPvP and some doesn’t even show up.

Just an example. How can a basketball team be pro if the player itself is not? Can you imagine Lakers are full of unskilled noobs who cant even dribble properly and still get the championship? That cant be possible because a good team is based on skillful player. TEAMWORK is based on PERSONAL SKILL. A team works well because people inside the team does well personally + communication with each other. Same sense, how can a so called team based game neglect class duel balance as it is the essential part of team fight balance? as the current tPvP meta need good dueler in a team, balancing through class duel is a must in my opinion. Surely the devs can balance the class secretly and test by their own. But a better way to do that should be implant the duel arena without ranking, let player test it out and take their suggestion for class balancing. So, please give us duel arena

What is your thought about it?

I understand you want the game to be balanced in 1v1 as well as in a team situation, but that’s not really feasible while retaining class individuality. To play on your NBA example: every player absolutely needs to be talented and skilled, however they don’t need to have equal talents and skills. They do, however, need to have talents and skills that complement one another and the overall increase the efficacy of the team. Part of the fun and challenge, in my opinion, is playing to your teammates strengths and compensating for their weaknesses.

xiNe.6958:

This is guild wars not street fighter. Oh and balancing a game for 1v1 is completely different than balancing a game in a team style game. Good luck balancing one without kittening up the other.

if so, why the 5v5 conquest emphasize so much on personal level skill and why is it there? should they make the game be like 16v16 or sth similar which fit the role more to “Guild Wars”?

It doesn’t 5v5 is more about positioning and team communication. Let me give you a great example right now. Let’s say duels do exist with this current build of the game, would you consider the Moa Transform elite to be fair in that situation? No one left to save your kitten there and you basically lost the second you get Moa’d

Now that skill is NOT broken in a traditional 5v5, but you would think it was in a 1v1 and that is where the balancing issues come in.

5v5 conquest requires personal skill because there are only 5 players on a team. If any one player lacks skill, there’s not much room for the other players to pick up the slack.

Dueling is pretty much meaningless for tPvP because of the concept of “selfish” versus “team” skills. A number of guardian builds are great examples of this because of skills that benefit their teammates. In a 1v1 situation, these skills aren’t very useful, but in a 5v5 environment, they provide great benefit to allies (perhaps making up for a survivability deficiency) and are even more useful to the Guardian (such as boon application with Altruistic Healing). In that regard, something that works well in 1v1, or is desirable in that sort of situation simply isn’t useful in a team environment.

The basketball analogy is just silly and has no real relevance to what you’re trying to apply it to (basketball players aren’t “balanced” through 1v1 either).

I understand you want the game to be balanced in 1v1 as well as in a team situation, but that’s not really feasible while retaining class individuality. To play on your NBA example: every player absolutely needs to be talented and skilled, however they don’t need to have equal talents and skills. They do, however, need to have talents and skills that complement one another and the overall increase the efficacy of the team. Part of the fun and challenge, in my opinion, is playing to your teammates strengths and compensating for their weaknesses.

agreed to your idea of compensate. however it is based on the idea that the skill level doesn’t have a huge difference between every player. is that the case now in GW2’s class balance? if one class can’t fit any role in conquest and others just perform better in any way, why do i choose that class? why i need to have that class in my team? What can that overall fall behinded class can compensate for me? i personally think that is the problem of GW2’s class balance in tPvP atm.

NaturalPortman.9562:

xiNe.6958:

This is guild wars not street fighter. Oh and balancing a game for 1v1 is completely different than balancing a game in a team style game. Good luck balancing one without kittening up the other.

if so, why the 5v5 conquest emphasize so much on personal level skill and why is it there? should they make the game be like 16v16 or sth similar which fit the role more to “Guild Wars”?

It doesn’t 5v5 is more about positioning and team communication. Let me give you a great example right now. Let’s say duels do exist with this current build of the game, would you consider the Moa Transform elite to be fair in that situation? No one left to save your kitten there and you basically lost the second you get Moa’d

Now that skill is NOT broken in a traditional 5v5, but you would think it was in a 1v1 and that is where the balancing issues come in.

No it doesn’t broken, you are right. But it does bring huge advantage in small team fight, how much 5v5 can happens in a whole conquest match? most of the time they are fighting separately like 1v1/1v2/2v3/2v2. and yes, like Moa tranform elite, some skill there are work better in duel and that is why most team need those classes as side node holder as they always need to win a 1v1 situation and those classes show up much more than others in tourney.

xiNe.6958:

NaturalPortman.9562:

xiNe.6958:

This is guild wars not street fighter. Oh and balancing a game for 1v1 is completely different than balancing a game in a team style game. Good luck balancing one without kittening up the other.

if so, why the 5v5 conquest emphasize so much on personal level skill and why is it there? should they make the game be like 16v16 or sth similar which fit the role more to “Guild Wars”?

It doesn’t 5v5 is more about positioning and team communication. Let me give you a great example right now. Let’s say duels do exist with this current build of the game, would you consider the Moa Transform elite to be fair in that situation? No one left to save your kitten there and you basically lost the second you get Moa’d

Now that skill is NOT broken in a traditional 5v5, but you would think it was in a 1v1 and that is where the balancing issues come in.

No it doesn’t broken, you are right. But it does bring huge advantage in small team fight, how much 5v5 can happens in a whole conquest match? most of the time they are fighting separately like 1v1/1v2/2v3/2v2. and yes, like Moa tranform elite, some skill there are work better in duel and that is why most team need those classes as side node holder as they always need to win a 1v1 situation and those classes show up much more than others in tourney.

1v1 only happens for a few seconds at most, that 1v1 turns into a 3v1 or 2v1 in tournies.

NaturalPortman.9562:

xiNe.6958:

NaturalPortman.9562:

xiNe.6958:

This is guild wars not street fighter. Oh and balancing a game for 1v1 is completely different than balancing a game in a team style game. Good luck balancing one without kittening up the other.

if so, why the 5v5 conquest emphasize so much on personal level skill and why is it there? should they make the game be like 16v16 or sth similar which fit the role more to “Guild Wars”?

It doesn’t 5v5 is more about positioning and team communication. Let me give you a great example right now. Let’s say duels do exist with this current build of the game, would you consider the Moa Transform elite to be fair in that situation? No one left to save your kitten there and you basically lost the second you get Moa’d

Now that skill is NOT broken in a traditional 5v5, but you would think it was in a 1v1 and that is where the balancing issues come in.

No it doesn’t broken, you are right. But it does bring huge advantage in small team fight, how much 5v5 can happens in a whole conquest match? most of the time they are fighting separately like 1v1/1v2/2v3/2v2. and yes, like Moa tranform elite, some skill there are work better in duel and that is why most team need those classes as side node holder as they always need to win a 1v1 situation and those classes show up much more than others in tourney.

1v1 only happens for a few seconds at most, that 1v1 turns into a 3v1 or 2v1 in tournies.

and then other nodes are happening 1v2 or 1v1 again

xiNe.6958:

NaturalPortman.9562:

xiNe.6958:

NaturalPortman.9562:

xiNe.6958:

This is guild wars not street fighter. Oh and balancing a game for 1v1 is completely different than balancing a game in a team style game. Good luck balancing one without kittening up the other.

if so, why the 5v5 conquest emphasize so much on personal level skill and why is it there? should they make the game be like 16v16 or sth similar which fit the role more to “Guild Wars”?

It doesn’t 5v5 is more about positioning and team communication. Let me give you a great example right now. Let’s say duels do exist with this current build of the game, would you consider the Moa Transform elite to be fair in that situation? No one left to save your kitten there and you basically lost the second you get Moa’d

Now that skill is NOT broken in a traditional 5v5, but you would think it was in a 1v1 and that is where the balancing issues come in.

No it doesn’t broken, you are right. But it does bring huge advantage in small team fight, how much 5v5 can happens in a whole conquest match? most of the time they are fighting separately like 1v1/1v2/2v3/2v2. and yes, like Moa tranform elite, some skill there are work better in duel and that is why most team need those classes as side node holder as they always need to win a 1v1 situation and those classes show up much more than others in tourney.

1v1 only happens for a few seconds at most, that 1v1 turns into a 3v1 or 2v1 in tournies.

and then other nodes are happening 1v2 or 1v1 again

Those 1v1s never end because it’s against a guardian or ele

Those 1v1s never end because it’s against a guardian or ele

and that is class balance problem imo

it’s always 1vs5 for the Lakers. Kobe doing it all.

You can balance for 1v1.
You can balance for team fights.
You can not balance for both.
Team fights are more important, therefore it is balanced for teams.

xiNe.6958:

Those 1v1s never end because it’s against a guardian or ele

and that is class balance problem imo

No because the class balance is balanced around the conquest 5v5. Guardians have a great role in 5v5 but they can’t really kill anyone.

NaturalPortman.9562:

xiNe.6958:

Those 1v1s never end because it’s against a guardian or ele

and that is class balance problem imo

No because the class balance is balanced around the conquest 5v5. Guardians have a great role in 5v5 but they can’t really kill anyone.

if classes balanced in this sense, that means a rock scissors paper balance. what is the role of “skill” in this balancing system? no matter how good the player is, if he is using a scisscors class(whatever besides conditions), that mean he can never win a rock class(bunker), is that fun?

xiNe.6958:

NaturalPortman.9562:

xiNe.6958:

Those 1v1s never end because it’s against a guardian or ele

and that is class balance problem imo

No because the class balance is balanced around the conquest 5v5. Guardians have a great role in 5v5 but they can’t really kill anyone.

if classes balanced in this sense, that means a rock scissors paper balance. what is the role of “skill” in this balancing system? no matter how good the player is, if he is using a scisscors class(whatever besides conditions), that mean he can never win a rock class(bunker), is that fun?

That’s not the case at all.

Two examples: Altruistic Healing and Moa Morph

Altruistic Healing is a grandmaster trait for guardians that heals the guardian whenever a boon is applied to an ally. In a “dueling” situation, it has use (as it still heals the guardian for self-applying a boon) but isn’t fully utilized. In a team fight situation, a guardian using a skill like “Hold the Line!” is healed for significantly more because of the application of boons to his teammates. If this trait were to be balanced for 1v1 combat, it would be extremely overpowered in a team fight because of how it scales in a group environment. There’s no “rock-paper-scissors” here.

Moa Morph transforms the target into a Moa. In a 1v1 situation, this likely outright guarantees the death of the transformed player. In a team fight, it’s not the same. Such fights can be more drawn out, allowing more opportunity to recover. They also present the possible scenario of players on both sides of the fight being morphed. There’s significant strategy in the use of the skill (i.e. which player should I use this on?) and various other differences in the team fight that make the balance of the skill different. Again, it’s not a “rock-paper-scissors” scenario.

There’s plenty of other skills or traits like this (Empower, Plague Signet, Blinding Powder, Null Field, Med Kit, Glyph of Renewal, Call of the Wild, and Banner skills just to name one from each class) so it’s not like I’m just picking the only examples out there either.

Dueling is for fun or testing out builds. You can’t balance 5v5 point control via 1v1 dueling.

Naw. I’d rather they do it through 5v5 pub matchmaking. More teamwork and less solo ego maniacs.

Balancing 1vs1 is useless in a cooperative game, we already have people whining “Oh youuuu killed me 2 vs 1 now let’s go duellllll…1 vs 1 i’ll crush youuuu!!” And bs like that…please…no…this is not a 1vs1 game, maybe you can go 1vs1 sometimes but usually at that point one is already calling for backup, in tpvp intentionally going 1vs1 most of the times is just for wasting someone’s time or to keep someone in one place…but for sure noone is actually going to “duel” in tourneys…and i say it as a S/D thief and actually my job is to backup teamates in that situations by bringing down their target and move on….1vs1 at mine? Call me, i go in while they’re fighting…down him and go to the next problem while my mate is stomping him, someone maybe is calling this unfair…but i call this “teamwork”.