My personal feeling/opinion is that the Class balance/ skill cap between classes is in bad state!
I have to admit that the class balance from BWE1 up to release got worse!
I don´t know why maybe you heard too much to the whiners in forums…
Another point is that there are few classes which are much more difficult to play then others…
For example:
how is it even possible that a mesmer illusion is hitting the same dmg then some highest burst attack of other classes?
Another example is the spam heartseeker thief…(there are already enough post around)
Summarized overall all classes there is anyway too much burst around.. the combats duration got decreased to large extent in my personal feeling!
I agree and it is pretty obvious. Play an Elementalist to high lvl and then play a Thief. The number of things you have to juggle on the Thief are significantly lower than the Elementalist and in most scenarios they Thief is more effective.
The elementalist is also many times more versatile than the thief. If we are just considering how many key-presses and brain cells you have to rub together to kill an unskilled opponent then the thief would probably need fewer.
Having to rotate through attuenments that trigger 1.5 second globals is what kills Elementalists. Sure you can do a lot of things, but you don’t do many of them very well. Other classes burst harder and other classes survive more easily. The only thing the Elementalist really excels at is support. The idea of this game was being able to play the way you want. Like many MMOs though certain classes are already being pidgeon holed, which is bad design.
You can rub all the brain cells you want together. You can’t change mechanics that make you slower or make you less effective.
The game is too new and you people are not good enough to judge what is balanced or not. The fact that you are disparaging the ele is proof of this. In the right hands the ele is extremely powerful and very hard to kill.
Rotating through the attunements is what makes the ele so powerful. Without that 1.5 second CD we’d have people whining about ele’s too.
As it is im just waiting for you all to discover how powerful the guardian is and to whine about them.
80 Guardian: WvW role = Front-line Infantry
80 Thief: WvW role = Scorpion wire trolling
The game is too new and you people are not good enough to judge what is balanced or not. The fact that you are disparaging the ele is proof of this. In the right hands the ele is extremely powerful and very hard to kill.
Rotating through the attunements is what makes the ele so powerful. Without that 1.5 second CD we’d have people whining about ele’s too.
As it is im just waiting for you all to discover how powerful the guardian is and to whine about them.
Oh believe me, a lot of people have already figured out that guardians are strong(and it’s funny how people were QQing a lot when guardians received a nerf after BWE3…). I am a very new guardian player and I can still easily manage most classes in 1v1 except for the mesmer which seems to be a pain for me The retaliation uptime is phenomenal and it makes thieves very angry when they burst themselves to death.
Concenrning eles, people should go watch phantaram’s stream and then come back and tell me how it lacks raw power.
Agreed. My first class being a Ranger, I have literally laughed out loud for each at the absurdity of how comparatively strong the traits/skills are when I first looked at them when making my warrior, thief, and engineer.
Warrior has pretty much only one “strong” setup in terms of damage at that’s GS. We can’t burst like that with any other weapon save for a very glass cannon MH Axe/Rifle build.
I will say though that I recently made an Ele just to see what the skills were, yeah that class is not just a make one to level 2 and hop into PvP class. That was -awful-.
The elementalist is also many times more versatile than the thief. If we are just considering how many key-presses and brain cells you have to rub together to kill an unskilled opponent then the thief would probably need fewer.
Versatility is not necessarily important in sPVP.
Especially in a 5v5 tournament where people basically have ‘roles’ to fill. Thieves fill the same role as elementalists, and do it easier and better.
Warrior has pretty much only one “strong” setup in terms of damage at that’s GS. We can’t burst like that with any other weapon save for a very glass cannon MH Axe/Rifle build.
I will say though that I recently made an Ele just to see what the skills were, yeah that class is not just a make one to level 2 and hop into PvP class. That was -awful-.
I run a rifle build which can burst for about 17k over 3 seconds, comes with 1600+ toughness, 20- 22kish HP, and 2 defensive utility skills. It’s no glass cannon. I think you underestimate how well the class can perform in a wide range of builds.
Warrior has pretty much only one “strong” setup in terms of damage at that’s GS. We can’t burst like that with any other weapon save for a very glass cannon MH Axe/Rifle build.
I will say though that I recently made an Ele just to see what the skills were, yeah that class is not just a make one to level 2 and hop into PvP class. That was -awful-.
I run a rifle build which can burst for about 17k over 3 seconds, comes with 1600+ toughness, 20- 22kish HP, and 2 defensive utility skills. It’s no glass cannon. I think you underestimate how well the class can perform in a wide range of builds.
And then someone with a brain rolls through your volley and you do no damage. Also the Rifle burst is probably the most telegraphed move in the game. As long as people aren’t asleep at the wheel it can be easily avoided as long as they see you.
Warrior has pretty much only one “strong” setup in terms of damage at that’s GS. We can’t burst like that with any other weapon save for a very glass cannon MH Axe/Rifle build.
I will say though that I recently made an Ele just to see what the skills were, yeah that class is not just a make one to level 2 and hop into PvP class. That was -awful-.
I run a rifle build which can burst for about 17k over 3 seconds, comes with 1600+ toughness, 20- 22kish HP, and 2 defensive utility skills. It’s no glass cannon. I think you underestimate how well the class can perform in a wide range of builds.
And then someone with a brain rolls through your volley and you do no damage. Also the Rifle burst is probably the most telegraphed move in the game. As long as people aren’t asleep at the wheel it can be easily avoided as long as they see you.
Immobilize makes up for all of that quite a bit of the time. Yes, there’s no question people can dodge it, but that’s ultimately true of all attacks in the game. I’ve got to say I’ve always had a much harder time playing my Ranger against 100 blade warriors than rifle wielders. The 100 blades can be dodged, too, and I find it much easier to dodge. Maybe that’s just me.
In any case, like I said, any attack can be dodged so that isn’t really a good argument against a given build being strong.
More importantly – and MOST importantly in my opinion as something which is so often left out of all balance discussions but should usually be the first or second item to consider – is that dodging and evading in general isn’t such an easy solution in a team battle. 1 v 1 that Rifle warrior might be easy enough, but when you have no endurance and you’ve just used your stun break to dodge one guy’s attack, the warrior dropping his rifle burst on you isn’t so simple a thing to survive.
So far the hardest single hits i have received are from Heartseeker and Mesmer pet. Both of these have 0 drawbacks to the reward they receive. Compare that to Warrior HB (self root), Elementalist (requires combinations of area targeted skills) and oh wait… guardian, ranger, engi, necro dont have any single abilities that burst that hard…
So far the hardest single hits i have received are from Heartseeker and Mesmer pet. Both of these have 0 drawbacks to the reward they receive. Compare that to Warrior HB (self root), Elementalist (requires combinations of area targeted skills) and oh wait… guardian, ranger, engi, necro dont have any single abilities that burst that hard…
You probably didn`t spend too much time in sPvP. I have Mesmer lvl 21 and I`ve seen a lot of stuff. Thief who can burst me in 4 seconds, Warrior who can kill me in 3 seconds (bullscharge+1000 blades+quickness), Necro who casted 10 stacks of bleeds (and other stuff), fight didn`t last long and at the end I received 23k dmg just from bleeds (I would really like to know what spell / combo / whatever was that).
I play conditional build and my strongest pet is duelist who can deal up to 2,5k dmg (in power build it goes up to 4k) and it`s still nothing compared to Eviscerate which easily hit for more than 9k in single shot.
For example:
how is it even possible that a mesmer illusion is hitting the same dmg then some highest burst attack of other classes?
My Illusions are hitting for 0-4 dmg per hit.
Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.
It`s not direct dmg that counts, It`s bleeding they apply. I have 57% crit chance and trait Sharper images (illusions inflict bleeding on crit hit). My clones apply vuln or bleed on hit plus one more bleed on crit (and they crit a lot), so if you have 3 clones out and Staff in your hands (with Sigil of Earth – 60% chance to apply 5 sec bleed on crit) it`s really easy to stack up more than 10 stacks of bleeds in only few seconds.
For example:
how is it even possible that a mesmer illusion is hitting the same dmg then some highest burst attack of other classes?
My Illusions are hitting for 0-4 dmg per hit.
Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.
It`s not direct dmg that counts, It`s bleeding they apply. I have 57% crit chance and trait Sharper images (illusions inflict bleeding on crit hit). My clones apply vuln or bleed on hit plus one more bleed on crit (and they crit a lot), so if you have 3 clones out and Staff in your hands (with Sigil of Earth – 60% chance to apply 5 sec bleed on crit) it`s really easy to stack up more than 10 stacks of bleeds in only few seconds.
I know that because im playing nearly the same build. But thats defintely no burst damage and can easily be countered by removing conditions.
For example:
how is it even possible that a mesmer illusion is hitting the same dmg then some highest burst attack of other classes?
My Illusions are hitting for 0-4 dmg per hit.
Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.
It`s not direct dmg that counts, It`s bleeding they apply. I have 57% crit chance and trait Sharper images (illusions inflict bleeding on crit hit). My clones apply vuln or bleed on hit plus one more bleed on crit (and they crit a lot), so if you have 3 clones out and Staff in your hands (with Sigil of Earth – 60% chance to apply 5 sec bleed on crit) it`s really easy to stack up more than 10 stacks of bleeds in only few seconds.
I know that because im playing nearly the same build. But thats defintely no burst damage and can easily be countered by removing conditions.
The way conditions work in this game, it can be pretty bursty. You also need to realize that “oh just remove conditions” is not by any means a viable solution for every class. As a Mesmer, you’re playing one of the classes which can have a lot of access to condition removal, but some others have a much harder time.
For example:
how is it even possible that a mesmer illusion is hitting the same dmg then some highest burst attack of other classes?
My Illusions are hitting for 0-4 dmg per hit.
Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.
It`s not direct dmg that counts, It`s bleeding they apply. I have 57% crit chance and trait Sharper images (illusions inflict bleeding on crit hit). My clones apply vuln or bleed on hit plus one more bleed on crit (and they crit a lot), so if you have 3 clones out and Staff in your hands (with Sigil of Earth – 60% chance to apply 5 sec bleed on crit) it`s really easy to stack up more than 10 stacks of bleeds in only few seconds.
I know that because im playing nearly the same build. But thats defintely no burst damage and can easily be countered by removing conditions.
The way conditions work in this game, it can be pretty bursty. You also need to realize that “oh just remove conditions” is not by any means a viable solution for every class. As a Mesmer, you’re playing one of the classes which can have a lot of access to condition removal, but some others have a much harder time.
Stacked bleeding is in no way bursty but good sustained damage. Were not talking about burn or confusion that may become bursty. Point is the mesmer clones dont burst somebody down.
Anyway the clones can be easily countered by aoe.
Only the phantasms can pull out some burst damage because they are the mesmer burst skill.
Mesmer need to use abilities and swap weapon to be viable. As a thief you can plow through kills with the use of 3 abilities and mainly keynr 2 when its available. Anyone can try. Least skill is in warriors and thieves, that is the main issue. Other than that is guardians are too strong, with knockdowns, heals and survivalbility. They should need to sacrifice ccs for going survival/heal. This is obvious as well, how many premade tournaments do you see that consist of: thieves, warriors and guardians? They are everywhere. Only map where mesmer is an option is last tournament map, and it’s not because of phantasms, it’s because of trebucher.
For example:
how is it even possible that a mesmer illusion is hitting the same dmg then some highest burst attack of other classes?
My Illusions are hitting for 0-4 dmg per hit.
Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.
It`s not direct dmg that counts, It`s bleeding they apply. I have 57% crit chance and trait Sharper images (illusions inflict bleeding on crit hit). My clones apply vuln or bleed on hit plus one more bleed on crit (and they crit a lot), so if you have 3 clones out and Staff in your hands (with Sigil of Earth – 60% chance to apply 5 sec bleed on crit) it`s really easy to stack up more than 10 stacks of bleeds in only few seconds.
I know that because im playing nearly the same build. But thats defintely no burst damage and can easily be countered by removing conditions.
The way conditions work in this game, it can be pretty bursty. You also need to realize that “oh just remove conditions” is not by any means a viable solution for every class. As a Mesmer, you’re playing one of the classes which can have a lot of access to condition removal, but some others have a much harder time.
Stacked bleeding is in no way bursty but good sustained damage. Were not talking about burn or confusion that may become bursty. Point is the mesmer clones dont burst somebody down.
Anyway the clones can be easily countered by aoe.
Only the phantasms can pull out some burst damage because they are the mesmer burst skill.
Exactly this is what people don’t understand, those two classes get wrecked easily by AoE. Its just the fact that no one is intent on making AoE comps with a friend or making reliable solo AoE themselves.
Since people are negative about nerfs, how about we buff to balance then?
For example:
how is it even possible that a mesmer illusion is hitting the same dmg then some highest burst attack of other classes?
My Illusions are hitting for 0-4 dmg per hit.
Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.
It`s not direct dmg that counts, It`s bleeding they apply. I have 57% crit chance and trait Sharper images (illusions inflict bleeding on crit hit). My clones apply vuln or bleed on hit plus one more bleed on crit (and they crit a lot), so if you have 3 clones out and Staff in your hands (with Sigil of Earth – 60% chance to apply 5 sec bleed on crit) it`s really easy to stack up more than 10 stacks of bleeds in only few seconds.
I know that because im playing nearly the same build. But thats defintely no burst damage and can easily be countered by removing conditions.
The way conditions work in this game, it can be pretty bursty. You also need to realize that “oh just remove conditions” is not by any means a viable solution for every class. As a Mesmer, you’re playing one of the classes which can have a lot of access to condition removal, but some others have a much harder time.
Stacked bleeding is in no way bursty but good sustained damage. Were not talking about burn or confusion that may become bursty. Point is the mesmer clones dont burst somebody down.
Anyway the clones can be easily countered by aoe.
Only the phantasms can pull out some burst damage because they are the mesmer burst skill.
Exactly this is what people don’t understand, those two classes get wrecked easily by AoE. Its just the fact that no one is intent on making AoE comps with a friend or making reliable solo AoE themselves.
I think this is closer to a balance problem than anything.
First, some classes don’t really have any particularly strong AoE – at least apart from otherwise lackluster weapons that they may not want to have to bring just to counter one class.
Second, it’s not quite balanced that Mesmers can be so easily countered by one of those AoE heavy classes like the Elementalists – or that they can be so easily countered without really trying when people just lazily lay down AoE to indiscriminately kill stuff without needing to pay attention.
I think, ultimately, the whole pet concept itself (Mesmers, Necros, and Engineers) is a bad mechanic which takes away from the quality of PvP.
For example:
how is it even possible that a mesmer illusion is hitting the same dmg then some highest burst attack of other classes?
My Illusions are hitting for 0-4 dmg per hit.
Not sure if trolling or just plain stupid.
Edit: Oh and our Phantasms actually are our high dmg burst attacks.
sorry for not knowing the right name…I have no problem if the dmg comes from the player itself but if i get hit by minions for such amount…
you dont get it do you?
mesmers not really have direct damage spells and the only burst damage we can provide comes from panthasms that cant be considered pets at all because they die in 1-3 hits and dissappear as soon as the target is dead.
Remove phantasms and the mesmer does 0 damage.
If you dont know the class mechanics dont QQ about it.
You have no idea what you are talking about, in Guild Wars 2 the better player wins, it is as simple as that.
On my Thief I play and win a lot, on my Necromancer I play and win a lot, on my Warrior I play and DON’T win a lot.
What does this mean?
I am good at playing Thief and Necromancer and I suck at playing a Warrior. 90% of the time the problem is the player, not the profession.
If you think a certain profession is overpowered, make that profession and play it.
the point is NOT that thiefs are OP but that you need less skill to play a thief successfull compared to other classes. Where an elementalist has to use 6 cooldowns and dodge to do fine the thief has to use 2-3 and no dodge tokittenmostly everything.
The retaliation uptime is phenomenal and it makes thieves very angry when they burst themselves to death.