Guild Wars 2

My proposal is that 2 equal classes shouldnt be allowed within the same team, or al least not running the same build (2 shoutbow war, 2 d/d celestial ele etc)

The game is currently off balance (big time), but the comunity could display a better sense of deportivity and fair play by not abusing overpowered build.

it might seem a bit unfair to the people using the favored classes or the team that have been running 2 equal classes comps for a long time, but nobody was amused to see 2, 3 and up to 5 elementalists in ESL u AG.

PD: at the moment the elementalist is way too broken, but it will be someone else later on. So its not about the classes, is about trying to keep the copetition healthy and balanced.

Sorry my bad English

That’s not even the problem. There’s a reason why classes with so much “sustain + mobility/escapes + tankiness” gets stacked.

Do you not see the pattern? The real problem is this: not every build is equally balanced based on EFFORT. If things were balanced based on EFFORT then class stacking would be fine. If a class has SO MANY things going for it then class stacking will HAPPEN.

If d/d ele was “legit” complex people wouldn’t be stacking them. You can argue the same for Rampage Warrior, sure. But at least that has SIMPLE COUNTERPLAY.

THAT’s the real problem, it’s because certain classes DO NOT have simple counterplay. D/d ele you have to count how many dodges before bursting? And how many defensive cool downs do you deal with after you land your big hits? This is why d/d ele gets stacked: they are stacked in design AND it takes no skill to play because of being stacked in design.

TL;DR Class stacking wouldn’t be a problem if these “complex classes” didn’t have such anti-fun mechanics.

If certain classes didn’t have both mobility tankiness damage and sustain, EVERYTHING would be fine. That being said, I don’t really agree on GS Warrior having an evade either (not that I dont know how to deal with it but I don’t agree with mechanics like it). Those “stacked” mechanics themselves is the real culprit.

Zento.7401:

My proposal is that 2 equal classes shouldnt be allowed within the same team, or al least not running the same build (2 shoutbow war, 2 d/d celestial ele etc)

The game is currently off balance (big time), but the comunity could display a better sense of deportivity and fair play by not abusing overpowered build.

it might seem a bit unfair to the people using the favored classes or the team that have been running 2 equal classes comps for a long time, but nobody was amused to see 2, 3 and up to 5 elementalists in ESL u AG.

PD: at the moment the elementalist is way too broken, but it will be someone else later on. So its not about the classes, is about trying to keep the copetition healthy and balanced.

Sorry my bad English

even more fun would be allowing only one amulet of each type

nomore cheese celestial bs comps gg

not gonna happen

Guild wars 2 has no business being on a respectable Esport companies list of Esport games if Arena net can’t even balance their pvp for a Esport environment.

Just my opinion……I don’t expect a game to be 100% balanced that’s impossible, but GW2 SPvp needs sooo much work to even present this game in a Esport environment.

No one is going to watch this game as an Esport in it’s current state, it’s a joke.

I told some of my Starcraft 2 buddies and moba buddies what their thoughts were on a MMO like gw2 being a Esport and having ESL back them, the face they gave me followed by the laugher….some type of new approach to class balance needs to happen if you want the mainstream Esport community to watch guild wars 2.

ppl still buying gems…esports and proper pvp balance can wait

Archaon.9524:

ppl still buying gems…esports and proper pvp balance can wait

this lol.
screw balance, we got new gemstore items to focus on.

We can’t even bother talking about PvP balance when the fact is, anet’s team itself is not balanced…

BlackTruth.6813:

SIMPLE COUNTERPLAY.

THAT’s the real problem, it’s because certain classes DO NOT have simple counterplay. D/d ele you have to count how many dodges before bursting? And how many defensive cool downs do you deal with after you land your big hits? This is why d/d ele gets stacked: they are stacked in design AND it takes no skill to play because of being stacked in design.

TL;DR Class stacking wouldn’t be a problem if these “complex classes” didn’t have such anti-fun mechanics.

I absolutely agree. There’s no simple counterplay to the class with the exception of Mesmers and Necros, of which, is a 50/50 outcome in some cases.

We all know that this game is not balanced.

We all know that anet takes a lot of time to try to correct.

In my time here I have seen.

2 ranger spirits per team
2 and 3 warrior hammer per team
2 ele cele per team.
2 engineers per team.
2 mesmer mantra per team

and now 2 and 3 ele cele again.

It is a mistake that happens for years, a class is broken and abused at all levels.

At least in official tournaments could fix this problem.

Lucifer.7289:

Guild wars 2 has no business being on a respectable Esport companies list of Esport games if Arena net can’t even balance their pvp for a Esport environment.

Just my opinion……I don’t expect a game to be 100% balanced that’s impossible, but GW2 SPvp needs sooo much work to even present this game in a Esport environment.

No one is going to watch this game as an Esport in it’s current state, it’s a joke.

I told some of my Starcraft 2 buddies and moba buddies what their thoughts were on a MMO like gw2 being a Esport and having ESL back them, the face they gave me followed by the laugher….some type of new approach to class balance needs to happen if you want the mainstream Esport community to watch guild wars 2.

You are actually 100% correct. The sad truth is that ANET has zero clue how to make this esports. Yes, they can try to put on events that relatively few watch, but that won’t make it successful. They need a balance team that actually does their job and fixes stuff that is broken.

If the community is actually requesting team comps be barred from play, you know you’ve really kittened up your game. What makes anet so awe inspiring, is that they do absolutely nothing about it.

how about this after the expac…5v5 rev matches all day…

Lucifer.7289:

.

I told some of my Starcraft 2 buddies and moba buddies what their thoughts were on a MMO like gw2 being a Esport and having ESL back them, the face they gave me followed by the laugher….

Does Starcraft 2 buddies still exist outside South Korea? Colour me surprised… If I were a moba buddie (I’m not) I couldn’t laugh about GW2 being esport due I would be too busy laughing over the notion of having Starcraft II buddies.

StarCraft 2 is so eSports that Blizzard had to make the game AI crappier so your APM was higher just to make it “competitive”. RTS is dead and SC2 is a prime example.

MOBAs are eSport because they are slow as balls and easy to watch. Same with CS being eSports. People fail to mention that all games that are actually watched as eSports are ones that are slow and SIMPLE visually to understand. GW2 is AWFUL to watch if you don’t already know what all the moves are and even then its a glitterfest during fights with more than 2 people. DOTA2 is also starting to fall into this with Valves horrible art style immortal sets cluttering everything up with glitter.

That said, ANet does have a ton of balance work and backend systems that need to be added if they want the sPvP scene to take off.

I am hard pressed to think of a single class based game of any genre being eSports outside of MOBAs and they get around it by having a max of 4 active skills on any character.

displacedTitan.6897:

I am hard pressed to think of a single class based game of any genre being eSports outside of MOBAs and they get around it by having a max of 4 active skills on any character.

Hearthstone is “esports” as well Kappa.

Zento.7401:

2 ranger spirits per team
2 and 3 warrior hammer per team
2 ele cele per team.
2 engineers per team.
2 mesmer mantra per team

Don’t forget 2 bunker guards in a team, as Radioactive currently runs.

Lol, ATM in the ESL #93 EU there is a 5 man ele team vs another team with 3 eles.
The 5 ele team is up 1 game and winning.
This meta is so bad

Why anet. Why. What do we need to show you..

Serdoc.7261:

Lol, ATM in the ESL #93 EU there is a 5 man ele team vs another team with 3 eles.
The 5 ele team is up 1 game and winning.
This meta is so bad

they won gg anet

Ele is balaned. The OP thief on their team won the match.

i understand HoT is priority and balance must take a back seat for now. we all want HoT, but cmon even a temporary hotfix – like make attunment cooldowns 30s recharge in pvp until you have time to run a balance pass on their sustain/burn/blind.

Sucks for ele for a while, but overall its better to have matches where 7/8 classes are played then ESL matches with 5v3 eles. I mean ranger hasnt made a competitive team in years and its ok-ish with everyone by now, smiter boon the ele out of pvp until proper fix can be implemented. Players are fed up and leaving, it can really hurt the game long term if its resolved only in a patch a month after HoT (which it self is still some time away).

It will probably be necessary until proper balancing happens, but in the long run i think its bad for the game.

While it might open up the competitive scene a bit, the issue will still prevail in ranked PvP, especially in the HoT release with the ladders.

Also, keep in mind that the goal should not be to limit ele to every team having 1 or 2. The goal should be that its possible for every team to NOT run ele. 5 slots, 9 classes, how many builds?? And 3-4 slots out of 10 in a game are filled with eles.

BlackTruth.6813:

That’s not even the problem. There’s a reason why classes with so much “sustain + mobility/escapes + tankiness” gets stacked.

Do you not see the pattern? The real problem is this: not every build is equally balanced based on EFFORT. If things were balanced based on EFFORT then class stacking would be fine. If a class has SO MANY things going for it then class stacking will HAPPEN.

If d/d ele was “legit” complex people wouldn’t be stacking them. You can argue the same for Rampage Warrior, sure. But at least that has SIMPLE COUNTERPLAY.

THAT’s the real problem, it’s because certain classes DO NOT have simple counterplay. D/d ele you have to count how many dodges before bursting? And how many defensive cool downs do you deal with after you land your big hits? This is why d/d ele gets stacked: they are stacked in design AND it takes no skill to play because of being stacked in design.

TL;DR Class stacking wouldn’t be a problem if these “complex classes” didn’t have such anti-fun mechanics.

If certain classes didn’t have both mobility tankiness damage and sustain, EVERYTHING would be fine. That being said, I don’t really agree on GS Warrior having an evade either (not that I dont know how to deal with it but I don’t agree with mechanics like it). Those “stacked” mechanics themselves is the real culprit.

+1

I know that the best solution must come from ANET.

But we are not naive. Anet has never done a good balance.

How long the ranger is out ?, one year, two years?

Instead of waiting for a solution that takes months. Preferably, the community made a temporary solution. That’s my opinion.

Thank you for your comments

As D/D ele I agree. I’m sure that D/D eles are going to be nerfed to ground after the recent ESL debacle, but I really don’t like class stacking anymore. I’d rather see diversity in classes so that each class synergies with others at least in AG, ESL.

How about the devs balance the game instead? Having to introduce an analogue of a ban system in a game with so few classes and usable abilities is a disgrace.

Chokolata.1870:

Also, keep in mind that the goal should not be to limit ele to every team having 1 or 2. The goal should be that its possible for every team to NOT run ele.

Woha dude, you are getting way ahead of yourself there. You cant be that optimistic. I mean considering the situation, a fix that keeps them the undisputed best pvp class ever and mandatory if you want to be even semi competitive, but tones them down so you dont stack beyond 1-2, is ok for now. Ele viable but optional kind of meta sounds like some hippie imaginary wonderland

I cant imagine ele being balanced to the point where you dont have to take at least one of them. Its been so strong now in every game-mode and every situation for years that its most played class by far. Too much outrage if its not elite at everything.

Ofc i would like that scenario, but it just seems unrealistic. Small steps at a time, just start moving in the right direction within next couple months.

Lucifer.7289:

Guild wars 2 has no business being on a respectable Esport companies list of Esport games if Arena net can’t even balance their pvp for a Esport environment.

Just my opinion……I don’t expect a game to be 100% balanced that’s impossible, but GW2 SPvp needs sooo much work to even present this game in a Esport environment.

No one is going to watch this game as an Esport in it’s current state, it’s a joke.

I told some of my Starcraft 2 buddies and moba buddies what their thoughts were on a MMO like gw2 being a Esport and having ESL back them, the face they gave me followed by the laugher….some type of new approach to class balance needs to happen if you want the mainstream Esport community to watch guild wars 2.

Just some clarification: You asked people playing MOBAS and Strategy games evaluate the PvP of an MMO (something they do not play and is totally unrelated to their genre?) and then decided that their input in any way reflects what is wrong with GW2s PvP?
Ok.

The PvP needs some work, people always say that, about every game. However, right now its in a bad spot, that is true.

That has to do with alot of things, the celestial elementalists with their sustain and the constant burn stacking builds (read guardians) for alot of people, and rightfully so.

Another reason is the odd design choice to make people have to queue from an instanced area where you cant do anything else while waiting for the queue pop.

We could add the matchmaking to this list, although that is only broken for the top-tier of players with imbalanced matchups skill-wise and long queue times (Do note that this is an issue mostly reserved for the top tier of players and it has nothing to do with losing a match, but rather about how and why it is lost. Most people reading this will not qualify for this point imo, but thats just me.)

We could also add a lack of variation, something i hope they adress in HotS, as playing the same game mode (conquest) across different maps (too few maps…) isnt fun. They could easily take inspiration from other games here.

However, that being said, i still enjoy the pvp, maybe not so much when going up against 3 eles, or 3 burn guardians, but rather when it comes to the way the game works on a mechanical level.

Hi all.

relive this thread because again it happens again .

2 tanks mesmer
2 Reverant viper .

The solution comes from ArenaNet ?
DO NOT

the solution must come from the community.

Prohibit double classes. GW2 has barely 9 professions, not 50. And we see teams play 3 professions.

ArenaNet prevent double class exists in qualifying . It is an easier solution. The perfect balance is much more difficult.

mesmer tank is tolerable
reveratn viper is tolarable .

mesmer double or double Reverant is not .