Class stacking is ruining the pvp.

Class stacking is ruining the pvp.

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Posted by: The Ace.9105

The Ace.9105

Removing class stacking makes this game way easier to balance and more fun to play. Facing 3 necros, druid and scrapper isn’t fun.

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Posted by: Tomiyou.3790

Tomiyou.3790

To be honest, if the enemy team stacked other professions rather than 3 currently most OP elite specs, stacking wouldn’t be a problem. Removing class stacking is a cheap, lazy and a bad way to try to balance things out.

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Posted by: Valkyriez.6578

Valkyriez.6578

The devs have stated that they can bring class lockins as a thing when queuing to prevent class stacking, but then There is que times and people complained about not being able to swap to counter enemy team comp at the start of the match so they won’t do it.

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Posted by: The Ace.9105

The Ace.9105

To be honest, if the enemy team stacked other professions rather than 3 currently most OP elite specs, stacking wouldn’t be a problem. Removing class stacking is a cheap, lazy and a bad way to try to balance things out.

Idk really. If they would have implemented this change ages ago even d/d cele ele wouldn’t have been a problem.

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Posted by: Varezenem.2813

Varezenem.2813

Problem with banning profession stacking is that professions with multiple builds that perform a different role wouldn’t be able to be used simultaneously.

Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari

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Posted by: The Ace.9105

The Ace.9105

Problem with banning profession stacking is that professions with multiple builds that perform a different role wouldn’t be able to be used simultaneously.

That’s why you have to think carefully what you want to pick for that profession. Can’t have everything in 1 team.

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

Profession swap ruining pvp too especially if you soloQ. I mean why allow someone to change to a profession that isn’t on the same skill level with the swap proff as im on my profession. People swap to profession they are not good at cause some very bad games for everyone. I don’t like profession swap as i see too much people that swap char at start they die in 1-2 seconds and are close to useless, doing 0 damage, doing nothing useful. respawn and go die in 2sec again. So we have to lose games because some players swapped to a prof they can’t play with in the skill level we are in. I can’t accept it.

(edited by Rolisteel.1375)

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Posted by: Archon.6480

Archon.6480

Ha, ha, this was true for me today! Reapers everywhere! I thought it was kind of fun, though. Good practice for a Druid…

Jade Quarry – Esparie
Illustrious Exhausted Primordial Legendary Druid, and Mesmer for fun
PvE | PvP (1500)| WvW | Fractals | Dungeons

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Posted by: The Ace.9105

The Ace.9105

Ha, ha, this was true for me today! Reapers everywhere! I thought it was kind of fun, though. Good practice for a Druid…

Yeah the other team i had against me had 3 druids using search and rescue…

Later today when i played i had teams with 5 different professions and the games were super fun.

(edited by The Ace.9105)

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Posted by: Varezenem.2813

Varezenem.2813

Problem with banning profession stacking is that professions with multiple builds that perform a different role wouldn’t be able to be used simultaneously.

That’s why you have to think carefully what you want to pick for that profession. Can’t have everything in 1 team.

What about a team that intentionally wants to play only one profession even if that profession isn’t the best in every role it can perform?
Like for example the guys that did the 10 XX VG kill .

Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari

(edited by Varezenem.2813)

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Posted by: Fivedawgs.4267

Fivedawgs.4267

Problem with banning profession stacking is that professions with multiple builds that perform a different role wouldn’t be able to be used simultaneously.

That’s why you have to think carefully what you want to pick for that profession. Can’t have everything in 1 team.

What about a team that intentionally wants to play only one profession even if that profession isn’t the best in every role it can perform?
Like for example the guys that did the 10 XX VG kill .

But why would anyone play a profession they haven’t mastered in rank? I belive the OP is referring to PVP class stacking,and tbh it is very selfish of him. Most people class stack, using the OP words here, because those are the class they are more conformable with. And tbh, most game do okay with class stacking. Let’s look at lol for example. A perfect team always has 2 dps one tank or a mage, or 1 a dc 2 mage and a tank. So class stacking is bound to happen.

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Posted by: lloydst.6985

lloydst.6985

Honestly i dont get why people are complaining about class stacking/ swapping.
You can do it too
You can ask others too swap(not likely they will)
Disallowing class swapping wont fix kitten especially when solo queing and getting matched up vs a premade fact is people are only complaining about it because they dont see how multiclassing actually makes you better.

roaming/havoc commander of FTF

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Posted by: Varezenem.2813

Varezenem.2813

Problem with banning profession stacking is that professions with multiple builds that perform a different role wouldn’t be able to be used simultaneously.

That’s why you have to think carefully what you want to pick for that profession. Can’t have everything in 1 team.

What about a team that intentionally wants to play only one profession even if that profession isn’t the best in every role it can perform?
Like for example the guys that did the 10 XX VG kill .

But why would anyone play a profession they haven’t mastered in rank? I belive the OP is referring to PVP class stacking,and tbh it is very selfish of him. Most people class stack, using the OP words here, because those are the class they are more conformable with. And tbh, most game do okay with class stacking. Let’s look at lol for example. A perfect team always has 2 dps one tank or a mage, or 1 a dc 2 mage and a tank. So class stacking is bound to happen.

So do I but, for example, not too long ago it would have been viable to go a full guard team not the best possible but could be interesting to watch and play.
Disallowing class stacking also forces those who play a specific profession into a specific build and like you said they would be punished for wanting to play what they are more familiar with.

Senbu Ren[Wind]
Herald of Ventari

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Posted by: morrolan.9608

morrolan.9608

Disallowing class stacking also forces those who play a specific profession into a specific build and like you said they would be punished for wanting to play what they are more familiar with.

Don’t see why especially in unranked you just get put in matches without another guard on your team.

Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro

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Posted by: skillze.7689

skillze.7689

anyone that defends class stacking as a viable play format for spvp is only doing so to keep pre-made wins guaranted for themselves as solo cue should of always been balanced by selecting a varied composition of classes in the game rotations.

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

Profession stacking isn’t the problem; Overpowered builds are.

The only reason you see profession stacking is because there’s a handful of builds which are leaps and bounds more powerful than anything else. It’s inexcusable that blatantly overpowered builds have been left alone for so long.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

only class that is good to stack atm is druid. tripple druid is hell.

specs without support don’t scale too well.

tripple or double necro sounds good, but condi necro + condi rev is far better.

the reason druid is nuts when you stack it is tripple cele avatar.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

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Posted by: Warlord.9074

Warlord.9074

Profession stacking isn’t the problem; Overpowered builds are.

The only reason you see profession stacking is because there’s a handful of builds which are leaps and bounds more powerful than anything else. It’s inexcusable that blatantly overpowered builds have been left alone for so long.

ANET doesn’t know this though.

“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene

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Posted by: LordOtto.2650

LordOtto.2650

This week I’ve played with my condi reaper, and every time I have 2-3 reaper in team. There was once we were 5 Reaper in team, we won with +250 points, and I didn’t stress my self (unranked). You all know that now you play with ppl with same MMR.
Atm the biggest problem is that condi reaper wasn’t so good in season 1, and now ppl aren’t build up to counter it, they have to make other builds, and that’s frustrating them. “I was so good with my build, diamond or legendary, and now this OP build, that’s not in the meta builds, now I have to find other meta builds on net, and read about how to counter it” and blablabla crying ‘till somebody comes up with a new class meta build, with good anti-condi, and then "I’m better then you looser".
1. Make your own builds, skills, and play it, I was doing the same thing, ended up in diamond division.
2. Stop crying!
3. Making meta builds from the net is an indirect exploit, be ashamed of your self!
4. It’s easy to make anti-condi builds, professions, so stop crying with 3 reaper in team kitten stuff! You know that 2 Scrapper is more powerful atm?!
5. Unranked now puts me with/against legendary ppl to, 75% I win them… they were used to meta builds, never seen my hybrid Reaper… You can make hybrid Scrapper now, even a good competing elementalist, you are just lazy to build your own good build!

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Posted by: Warlord.9074

Warlord.9074

Atm the biggest problem is that condi reaper wasn’t so good in season 1, and now ppl aren’t build up to counter it,

This is backwards. People were built up to counter it in season one thats why it wasn’t an issue. The changes in the latest patch highly favor reapers.

Just becasuse a reaper can be beatin doesn’t mean its balanced because its too easy to do well on a reaper currently compared to the amount of effort it takes to bring one down.

“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene

(edited by Warlord.9074)

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Posted by: LordOtto.2650

LordOtto.2650

Against Reaper 1vs1 DH is very good, often beats any Reaper, so what are you talking about?!

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Posted by: Fivedawgs.4267

Fivedawgs.4267

This week I’ve played with my condi reaper, and every time I have 2-3 reaper in team. There was once we were 5 Reaper in team, we won with +250 points, and I didn’t stress my self (unranked). You all know that now you play with ppl with same MMR.
Atm the biggest problem is that condi reaper wasn’t so good in season 1, and now ppl aren’t build up to counter it, they have to make other builds, and that’s frustrating them. “I was so good with my build, diamond or legendary, and now this OP build, that’s not in the meta builds, now I have to find other meta builds on net, and read about how to counter it” and blablabla crying ‘till somebody comes up with a new class meta build, with good anti-condi, and then "I’m better then you looser".
1. Make your own builds, skills, and play it, I was doing the same thing, ended up in diamond division.
2. Stop crying!
3. Making meta builds from the net is an indirect exploit, be ashamed of your self!
4. It’s easy to make anti-condi builds, professions, so stop crying with 3 reaper in team kitten stuff! You know that 2 Scrapper is more powerful atm?!
5. Unranked now puts me with/against legendary ppl to, 75% I win them… they were used to meta builds, never seen my hybrid Reaper… You can make hybrid Scrapper now, even a good competing elementalist, you are just lazy to build your own good build!

This… it’s like you took the words out of my mouth. That’s the problem with NA,we never come up with our own build and when we do they are always one sided (like no condi removal or no stun breaks or whatever).

Atm the biggest problem is that condi reaper wasn’t so good in season 1, and now ppl aren’t build up to counter it,

This is backwards. People were built up to counter it in season one thats why it wasn’t an issue. The changes in the latest patch highly favor reapers.

Just becasuse a reaper can be beatin doesn’t mean its balanced because its too easy to do well on a reaper currently compared to the amount of effort it takes to bring one down.

I disagree because necros are always focus in team fight; and obviously they are the Bane of every toons if left alone. That’s why you always FOCUS NECROS.

(edited by Fivedawgs.4267)

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Posted by: suffish.4150

suffish.4150

I think class stacking should be allowed because in solo queue, I have found that composition means very little towards the result of a match. I mean that in 99% of solo queue games, a change in class composition will not affect who wins and loses because most games are either fairly boring games in which the losing team reaches about 300 points but knew they had no hope the entire game because no matter what they do they can never get ahead of the other team. A change in class composition will not somehow turn that match around. The only way to change the result of that match is for the losing team to get better. Even the very close games (500-475 or closer) are probably not affected by what classes the teams are running. What usually decides those games is someone making a bad decision because they get very nervous near the end (I did that a lot in the league so I lost maybe 8/10 of the extremely close games I played). Based on this I think that class stacking should be allowed, plus it makes fun games like one today in which I faced a team of 5 condi necros which I lost about 500-400.

PvP- Stronlo Beastmaster (Ranger)
PvE- Grolex (Warrior)
PvP rank: 20 Rating: 1864 (season 7)

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Posted by: Burn.5401

Burn.5401

This isn’t some moba game with a billion classes though. If it’s too hard to balance 9 professions, then creating such rules is pure lazyness. And that pretty much describes the parody of a balance patch we got last month. Completely unneeded buffs to necro, thief etc. (at least not in those areas)

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

Class stacking is fine. The problem comes when class stacking actually gives you the best chance to win due to those classes being OP.

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Posted by: lloydst.6985

lloydst.6985

This isn’t some moba game with a billion classes though. If it’s too hard to balance 9 professions, then creating such rules is pure lazyness. And that pretty much describes the parody of a balance patch we got last month. Completely unneeded buffs to necro, thief etc. (at least not in those areas)

No this is a mmorpg with 9 classes each being able to run multiple viable builds, as too last balance patch yes it was very lazy for them to remove amultets instead of changing(not neccearaly nerfing) traits/skills. As too your oppinion on the necro and thief buffs, the thief “buffs” as you call them didnt do too much yes they hit harder but they still have as much problems as before with surviving. The necro buffs however were somewhat kittened changes especially with the removal of tanky amulets.

roaming/havoc commander of FTF

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Posted by: The Ace.9105

The Ace.9105

Okay every winning esl team has used class stacking like double guard and double d/d ele. We can also solve this thing with math. The number of possible teams made without class stacking is 126 while the number of teams made with class stacking is 1287.

Good luck balancing this game to 3 different game modes at the same time while allowing class stacking to happen on the competitive gaming. The only way to get pvp balanced is to remove the stacking option and balance classes equally so that everything is worth to play.

What i have experienced lately is that when i have 5 different professions on my side and 5 different professions on enemy side the matches have been super fun and everytime the other team has stacked op classes it sucks. Even the old d/d ele wouldn’t have caused any problems if they would have prevented class stacking back then.

Also ppl let’s be honest. You say people want to play different roles on the same class but in reality that only happens in the low rank games and almost always ppl stack the best meta build or otherwise they are trash because some other class does the job way better (do you want to have bunker thief instead of druid in your team?). This is also why preventing class stacking would be a good thing.

I am also fine with the idea that class stacking is possible in unranked during ranked season for people who want to stack their classes and play pvp.

(edited by The Ace.9105)

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Posted by: Burn.5401

Burn.5401

…and everytime the other team has stacked op classes it sucks.

And you wouldn’t face that problem if those classes/builds got properly balanced in the first place. Why are people not stacking p/p thief? Or longbow ranger? In before “OP specs are inevitable”! There were times before HoT and before the D/D meta where every class was viable and stacking wasn’t even needed. Seems like people forget easily.

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Posted by: The Ace.9105

The Ace.9105

…and everytime the other team has stacked op classes it sucks.

And you wouldn’t face that problem if those classes/builds got properly balanced in the first place. Why are people not stacking p/p thief? Or longbow ranger? In before “OP specs are inevitable”! There were times before HoT and before the D/D meta where every class was viable and stacking wasn’t even needed. Seems like people forget easily.

Before d/d meta ele was basically trash tier in pvp. They tried to fix that and it was op. Then there was the godlike warrior hambow bs and then unkillable shoutbow, turret engi bs, spirit ranger ai bot… Ppl seems to forget easily yeah. Oh yeah btw these classes were also stacked like abjured double ele and orng double dps guard.

Let’s not also forget that tcg and china tried to play with 5 different classes in the last wts in cologne… Oh wait… They lost?!?

Like i said, balancing 126 team comps is way easier than balancing 1287 team comps. Nothing of these op specs weren’t super op alone. They were op because of the class stacking.

For example now in unranked facing only 1 necro is fine but when you face 2 or 3 it’s not fine. How do you counter that? By stacking classes yourself ofc and then you have better op comp and the power creep continues until the most optimal stacked comp is found.

(edited by The Ace.9105)

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Posted by: Burn.5401

Burn.5401

By that logic, let’s also ban certain builds because they’re too strong. While we’re at it, let’s just decide exactly what every team and player should play so it can appear balanced on the esport screen.

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Posted by: The Ace.9105

The Ace.9105

By that logic, let’s also ban certain builds because they’re too strong. While we’re at it, let’s just decide exactly what every team and player should play so it can appear balanced on the esport screen.

No, you don’t get it. The base of unbalance comes from class stacking. 1 class of that op thing in a team is fine but if there is more than that 1 op it becomes broken. Broken comps are countered by other broken class stacking comp and the circle evolves until the optimal stacked comp is found.

We don’t have to decide what every player should play and what team should they have if we just remove the class stacking factor. Ppl will always anyway play the best build on that said class.

We get pvp balanced by removing class stacking and reducing the amount of teams to balance from 1287 to 126 and it won’t break wvw or pve.

(edited by The Ace.9105)

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

How you get balanced pvp only with removed class stacking but allowed class swapping? Why you think that class swap is so balanced? I never have seen things like that “class swap inside the ranked game” in any other successful MMORPG’s or esport games. Just join and play with what you have! What i win if a somewhat good thief swap to ele because he think it will be good. but he is terrible at it? What i win with him? Decreasing my chance to win. And a feeling like its a 3v5 or 4v5 game. At high ranked games it means a lot if people swap to class they cant play at high level. Or if you really want that class swap allow then but not in group with my high ranked and mastered main class if he don’t have same division and ratings with the swapped class. Thats called balance.

(edited by Rolisteel.1375)

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Posted by: lloydst.6985

lloydst.6985

How you get balanced pvp only with removed class stacking but allowed class swapping? Why you think that class swap is so balanced? I never have seen things like that “class swap inside the ranked game” in any other successful MMORPG’s or esport games. Just join and play with what you have! What i win if a somewhat good thief swap to ele because he think it will be good. but he is terrible at it? What i win with him? Decreasing my chance to win. And a feeling like its a 3v5 or 4v5 game. At high ranked games it means a lot if people swap to class they cant play at high level. Or if you really want that class swap allow then but not in group with my high ranked and mastered main class if he don’t have same division and ratings with the swapped class. Thats called balance.

The funny thing is that you think you are a better player because you only play one class while the fact is that players that multiclass have a wider knowledge of the game sure they might be better at some classes then others but thinking you are better then a multi classer is very narrow minded and just plain wrong in most cases

roaming/havoc commander of FTF

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

I’ve never said and never will that i am better than every multi classer or anyone. I talking about my experience. That some multi classer often can be a cause of lost games as they don’t have skill with the swapped char. Its easy to see on their playstyle and die very fast in every 1v1 or teamfight. So i don’t know whats funny about it for you. Lets say i played 10 ranked games with my engineer but i got to high division playing most of my games with my main. but i think the team comp will be better if i play with my engineer or i just decide i want to play engineer because why not? so i swap engineer and will play it. Do you want me in your team if you know that im not really good at engineer or only played 10 games with it? Decreasing your chance to win the game when you want your pips to get to the highest division? So you will get a player that know what to do in the game mode but can’t control his character at the skill level the division requires. Maybe this way easier to understand.

(edited by Rolisteel.1375)

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Posted by: The Ace.9105

The Ace.9105

How you get balanced pvp only with removed class stacking but allowed class swapping? Why you think that class swap is so balanced? I never have seen things like that “class swap inside the ranked game” in any other successful MMORPG’s or esport games. Just join and play with what you have! What i win if a somewhat good thief swap to ele because he think it will be good. but he is terrible at it? What i win with him? Decreasing my chance to win. And a feeling like its a 3v5 or 4v5 game. At high ranked games it means a lot if people swap to class they cant play at high level. Or if you really want that class swap allow then but not in group with my high ranked and mastered main class if he don’t have same division and ratings with the swapped class. Thats called balance.

Ofc locking classes when they get inside the match is must when class stacking is removed.

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Posted by: lloydst.6985

lloydst.6985

Its funny because you determine their skill level by their toon they switched too maybe they suck on their main too the problem isnt the stack/switching off classes its the way matchmaking and balance works in this game locking classes would make it allmost impossible for solo queuers as classes arent taken in account when setting up matches since there are 9 classes its ridiculus to think you will allways face even comps switching toons enables you too make matches more even and carry the kitten teamates you get grouped with

roaming/havoc commander of FTF

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Posted by: The Ace.9105

The Ace.9105

Its funny because you determine their skill level by their toon they switched too maybe they suck on their main too the problem isnt the stack/switching off classes its the way matchmaking and balance works in this game locking classes would make it allmost impossible for solo queuers as classes arent taken in account when setting up matches since there are 9 classes its ridiculus to think you will allways face even comps switching toons enables you too make matches more even and carry the kitten teamates you get grouped with

I think the point here was that if a player who has like 1000 games on 1 class swaps to class with 20 games it means that your team plays 4v5.

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Posted by: Rolisteel.1375

Rolisteel.1375

Its funny because you determine their skill level by their toon they switched too maybe they suck on their main too the problem isnt the stack/switching off classes its the way matchmaking and balance works in this game locking classes would make it allmost impossible for solo queuers as classes arent taken in account when setting up matches since there are 9 classes its ridiculus to think you will allways face even comps switching toons enables you too make matches more even and carry the kitten teamates you get grouped with

I think the point here was that if a player who has like 1000 games on 1 class swaps to class with 20 games it means that your team plays 4v5.

Thank you

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Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Its funny because you determine their skill level by their toon they switched too maybe they suck on their main too the problem isnt the stack/switching off classes its the way matchmaking and balance works in this game locking classes would make it allmost impossible for solo queuers as classes arent taken in account when setting up matches since there are 9 classes its ridiculus to think you will allways face even comps switching toons enables you too make matches more even and carry the kitten teamates you get grouped with

I think the point here was that if a player who has like 1000 games on 1 class swaps to class with 20 games it means that your team plays 4v5.

unless that class is autofaceroll like old turret engi :P

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

Removing class stacking makes this game way easier to balance and more fun to play. Facing 3 necros, druid and scrapper isn’t fun.

What are you talking about? If we are talking ESL before HOT most teams had a different class. People were complaining about cele amulet. In HOT before ESL came out people were complaining about dh.

And now we have people talking about class stacking with necros? Really the class with limited mobility, blocks, evades and doesnt have insta kill moves?

The team you literally put up are all fight in the circle players basically besides the ranger.

Want 2 buy 2 DH, 1 power hammer rev, 1 thief and druid to light up the team you are crying about.