Guild Wars 2

I’d put mesmer into warrior tier if they were a good one on battle of kyhlo. Same with engineer on sky ham.

If the players are low skilled i would agree. But in higher skilllevels i wouldnt put Thievies, Mesmer and Eles down there.
I think it is simply playing those classes well requires more skill as surviving with them comes more down to smart use of skills, while guardians and warriors and to some extent necros, engiers and rangers can face tank…

One thing I realized a long time ago, get used to every class and stay on top the nerfs. You can be as skilled as you want, but a fighter pilot Ace, with a broken engine is still a pile of junk on the ground!

Muchacho.2390:

If the players are low skilled i would agree. But in higher skilllevels i wouldnt put Thievies, Mesmer and Eles down there.
I think it is simply playing those classes well requires more skill as surviving with them comes more down to smart use of skills, while guardians and warriors and to some extent necros, engiers and rangers can face tank…

Well this post is about SoloQ and now TeamQ and based on observations.

It’s not directly related to class balance since most classes have a powerful build for sPvP.

It’s just that looking at random team compositions has revealed that the team comp with more Guardians, Warriors and Necros is far more likely to win than the comp boasting a lot of Thieves, Mesmers and Elementalists.

I totally agree to to Dee Jays statement. Sadly.

Especially the view on Mesmer. It always feels, that another class might fullfill the role of a Mesmer also. Maybe a well played Interrupt Mesmer is better versus Necros Engis and Eles but thats it basicly.

That is the reason why competitive players rerolled a lot their class/build for their team, class/spec > skill, and that’s also the reason why i’m very good with the guardian, decent with the engi and awfull with the ele .

You can be as good as u want, if the enemy has a nice bunker, roamer, off-bunker, condi composition and ur team is u, 3 eles and a thief, most likely u will lose, and hard.

I go by the system of counting how many squishi players are on the team.

Our team is two engineers, a necromancer, a thief and a mesmer/warrior. We win against high ranked teams all the time (definitely not super high tier just yet). Skill is the deciding factor. It’s just sometimes you need a bit more skill to overcome certain comps. Sure, you can have 2 warriors 2 guardians and a spirit ranger for a team, but those teams have weaknesses that you can exploit with your team comp. Fighting a team like that at mid is going to be hell, but splitting those guys up on three points with LOTS of roaming if the fight is going no where, will almost guarantee a victory. People put too much emphasis on personal ability. The team leader is the most important part of a team. If everyone is listening, you can make up for faulty builds and player skill any day. …At least versus most teams.

Dee Jay.2460:

…It’s also obvious that Conquest favors classes and builds with high survivability and lots of AoE/cleave damage.

been saying it many and many times… really wish they would adress it

I actually agree with the vast majority of the OP (which, for me, is a first- at least, in a very long time). I don’t think that Guards are OP or anything, but given that so many of us go into matches trying to play the same general type of role (I’m included in the list of those guilty for doing so), it’s good to have at least one or two others diversify the team’s strategy.

Warrior and Necro can do nearly everything that other classes can/need to do, and they can do it better as well.

Can’t say how much I hate the Bomb Kit-Grenade Kit facerolling engis that have warped the once rarely seen class that was championed only by excellent players such as Teldo into one of the spammiest classes in the game. Honestly, sometimes I have to worry that they’re even spammier than Scepter/Staff necros.

Spirit Ranger is definitely a good thing to have on your team, as long as you only have one (maybe you can get away with two).

The issue with most sPvP thieves for me is the fact that the vast, vast majority of them are simply bad at their playstyles and/or with their builds. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve gone into an sPvP match, looked at one or two thieves’ builds, and then started crying on the inside. I think that thieves are one of the most build-dependent classes in the game, and any build that is even a little unsound in some respect or another is going to unravel pretty quickly. Then of those that can play the game, their skillsets are often overall lacking, i.e. D/P thieves that can’t single-target burst properly, S/D thieves that can’t help their allies with their superior mobility and other smaller advantages, etc. So like you said, having a really good thief on your team is often going to be a complete game-changer, but anything less than that is either going to make your team kinda meh or will actually hurt you.

Mesmer is, IMO, the most balanced class right now (well, that’s not entirely true; the PU condi builds are a bit OP. Still, though…). That stems from the fact that mesmers have a fair number of weaknesses that have to be made up for by strengths in very unique areas. There’s also a lot of skill that goes into (for example) spacing out your clones just correctly so that you can shatter them at the proper time on an S/D thief. For every other class, either those classes inherently have very large strengths with very few weaknesses (and certainly not weaknesses large enough to take them down), those classes have builds with very large strengths and very few weaknesses, or those classes overall have some very significant weaknesses and/or strengths that aren’t significant enough for the regular player to put him or her on par with average players from other classes. Because of the inherent balance in the Mesmer’s case, however, this is much less of a concern, and it’s thus easier to assume that having a mesmer on your team won’t necessarily have overall significant impact, on average.

Definitely agree about non-Spirit Rangers. Sad, actually.

And eles… Compared to other classes, I’d put them on par with non-Spirit rangers at best, and only very slightly below thief.

Mesmers are not actually balanced, just from my view and feelings.
But as you say about Rangers… That’s not really true. A good trapper Ranger, you know, forgotten spec, hardly modified can be very strong. Properly played, it’s better on 1v1 than spirit ranger. While it doesn’t provide that amazing support as classic spammy Spirit Ranger with his burns, protection and other stuff, it excells in holding close/far points.
Agree with OP. In game about capturing and holding points, the more bunker guardians and engineers, the better

You should remove cleave and survivability from any Necro descriptions because those are filthy lies.

a team of spirit rangers with one power necro having fun and winning in team arena. you can get away of having more than 1 spirit ranger sometimes. :P

Totally agree, I think exactly the same and it is a bit weird lol, maybe because I’m a thief as well.

Anyway in Team Q, you can overcome cheese teams with skill IMO.

Valentin.2073:

a team of spirit rangers with one power necro having fun and winning in team arena. you can get away of having more than 1 spirit ranger sometimes. :P

Everyone there is super low ranked. That’s like saying I won a fight against a five year old by running him over with my car.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Valentin.2073:

a team of spirit rangers with one power necro having fun and winning in team arena. you can get away of having more than 1 spirit ranger sometimes. :P

Everyone there is super low ranked. That’s like saying I won a fight against a five year old by running him over with my car.

whatever… i like playing with lo ranked players. high ranked players are kinda snobbish and with proper training lo ranked players can be really good maybe at par with high ranked.

Should have included in the ele part:

Elementalist: Out of all the classes, this one effectively lowers your chances of winning.

LOL. Anyone who believes this thread title doesn’t spend enough time in the solo queue. Or lately, the team queue for that matter.

Qaelyn.7612:

LOL. Anyone who believes this thread title doesn’t spend enough time in the solo queue. Or lately, the team queue for that matter.

It’s all in how you play it. I’m sure a team of full thieves could find a way to beat a team of all guardians if the guardians are crap-tastic.

Totally agree with Dee Jay

But main problem is the easiest build are the strongest build.

ArenaNet doesn’t understand their own mechanics very well.
The last ‘balance’ proves they have no idea what they are doing despite having a massive loyal and experienced fan base to turn too.

They can’t nerf the right things and they can’t even buff the right things either!!

They keep buffing things that doesn’t need buffs and nerfing things that doesn’t need nerfs.

ArenaNet felt the need to buff Arcane Wave, why?! A lot of Elementalists uses Arcane Wave. No one needed it to be buffed, why not buff, oh I don’t know, ARCANE BLAST?! The utility that no one ever, EVER uses.

Or better yet, make Arcane Brilliance ranged and revert Arcane Wave back.

ArenaNet is hopeless if they can’t even buff the right skills/traits.

Qaelyn.7612:

LOL. Anyone who believes this thread title doesn’t spend enough time in the solo queue. Or lately, the team queue for that matter.

I’ve spent 382 soloQ games playing as ele only. That guy is totally right (hovewer I’d move mesmers and engis (faceroll kind) higher and rangers a bit lower.
I also made a bit of statistic week ago for 50+ battles and want to say you that war+guard+engi+mesm is 78% of all players. On the average there are 0.3/9 eles in game and 2.4/9mesmers.

Dee Jay.2460:

I have observed this for a while now from playing many TeamQs and SoloQs.

And that is, 90% of the time I can predict the winner of the match just by looking at the class composition.

While I have observed this to an extent in other MMOs it’s far, far more pronounced in GW2. I believe this is because most classes are exceptionally easy to understand and play “well-enough”. After playing a Thief extensively it only took me a single match to feel comfortable enough playing a Warrior competitively.

Anyway, according to my observations this is how each class dictates the outcomes.

Very indicative of outcome:

• Guardian – The need for 1-2 Bunkers is what really makes Guardians so decisive since the chances are fairly high that a Guardian will be a Bunker.
• Warrior – Not much to say here. Excellent survivability, even in mid-battle, lots of AoE and CC etc.
• Necromancer – Similar to Warriors, great combination of AoE cleave damage and survivability.

Slightly indicative out outcome:

• Engineer – Engineers are a wildcard. Their Bunkers are borderline OP, their offensive builds less useful.I think the average Engineer is a better player than most, which makes them slightly indicative of the outcome.
• Spirit Ranger – Having a single, well-played Spirit Ranger is a great asset to a team as they are very hard to kill 1v1 and great for assisting mid as well. But having more than one is less awesome and other classes are better.

Little indicative of outcome:

• Thief – The influence of a Thief scales more highly with skill and situational awareness than most other classes. A bad Thief is useless, a great one is great. Unfortunately most are only average and having more than one is rarely useful.
• Mesmer – Nothing bad per say about Mesmer, just that they don’t seem to influence the outcome of matches significantly more than others.
• Other Rangers – Having Rangers play anything but Spirit-builds is often counter-productive. Probably the least useful of all.
• Elementalist – I won’t comment on balance, but overall they don’t seem to have much impact on the outcome of matches. Having multiple Eles isn’t helpful either.

Just to note, I’m not saying anything directly about class balance. It’s just quite obvious that some classes are much, much more useful in tPvP than others. It’s a shame because it makes many fights with poor compositions feel futile and the outcome is almost always predictable.

It’s also obvious that Conquest favors classes and builds with high survivability and lots of AoE/cleave damage.

lol necros have 0 cleave skills. AOE yes, but cleave is not a thing for necros. Also necros have 2 builds that are commonly seen. Dhummfire build, which people with decent condition cleanse or hard counters should beat, and minion mancer which anyone who has decent aoe, or can kill minions can beat. Also I’m wondering where people find necros have this large survivability. Most necros have a little regen on staff and consume conditions. They have no immunity skills, no vigor, and have to invest 30 points into a traitline that doesn’t fit into the above two builds to get good stability. MMs have decent survivability if the minions are up but otherwise crumble quickly. While your observations might be true your statement is blatantly false.

i can still play my power ranger and win 1v1. :P

Generally agree with the assessment, just a note though: Necromancers have 0 true cleave, and the commonly played build has some of the worst survivability of commonly played sPvP builds. Dumbfire Necros have lots of AoE (all cleave is AoE, not all AoE is cleave) condition application, which is why they are played: absolutely massive AoE condition pressure that is, frankly, difficult to deal with.

But Necromancers have the worst active defenses in the game, so saying they have survivability is utterly false. Necromancers rely entirely on really good positioning, high offensive pressure, and team support for defense, they have no real defense of their own.

Hard to disagree. However on the topic of ranger builds, I’ve been playing around with beastmaster ranger and I find it way more comfortable in present Warrior-dense environment. When it comes to guardians and warriors you are spot on, I think necros are being pushed a bit from the meta. I’m talking SoloQ btw.

What is this heresy?

It is SWAG that decides the outcome of a battle.XD

redslion.9675:

What is this heresy?

It is SWAG that decides the outcome of a battle.XD

Now this is something new~

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Valentin.2073:

a team of spirit rangers with one power necro having fun and winning in team arena. you can get away of having more than 1 spirit ranger sometimes. :P

Everyone there is super low ranked. That’s like saying I won a fight against a five year old by running him over with my car.

And they only won by 50 points…

So you barely won against that 5 year old. =P

Absolutely.

I remember back in April, I was a warrior and I went 11 hours without a win and 16 hours for 5 wins.

This was bad,

Elementalist is kind of like that now.

Not indicative of outcome and generally not good to have around.

take a guess who won that match

yep necro/guards… 1 bunker guard on each point while necros run aoe fest