Guild Wars 2

Pls Read first before whining.

A mesmer in the mesmer forums just gave a wonderful idea.

So to those all whining about condition clone deaths,

How bout just make it like this, instead of punishing the attacker directly, Make it like this:

Vigorous Dissipation

• Grant Vigor to you and your teammates when your clones are killed. 5 seconds ICD. Radius 240. Number of Targets. 5

ICD to prevent spamming.

So yea.

Other examples could be:

• Healing Dissipation
• Condition Removal Dissipation

You guys get the drill.

That way instead of being passive (like most people say), it would be used wisely like condi removal when you wanna kill it with DE.

The balance would be still fair since, you can never really prevent people from killing your clones, so even if its like that, you will still get the benefit. Also the ICD Prevents the spammy nature that people hate

What do you guys think?

Credits to: MailMail Cho

StickerHappy.8052:

Pls Read first before whining.

A mesmer in the mesmer forums just gave a wonderful idea.

So to those all whining about condition clone deaths,

How bout just make it like this, instead of punishing the attacker directly, Make it like this:

Vigorous Dissipation

• Grant Vigor to you and your teammates when your clones are killed. 5 seconds ICD. Radius 240. Number of Targets. 5

ICD to prevent spamming.

So yea.

Other examples could be:

• Healing Dissipation
• Condition Removal Dissipation

You guys get the drill.

That way instead of being passive (like most people say), it would be used wisely like condi removal when you wanna kill it with DE.

The balance would be still fair since, you can never really prevent people from killing your clones, so even if its like that, you will still get the benefit. Also the ICD Prevents the spammy nature that people hate

What do you guys think?

Credits to: MailMail Cho

I don’t get why Condition clone death is unfair in the first place.

Personally I dislike this idea. Still, the ability to heal from clone death would be pretty nice.

I think that one thing that can be distilled from several related threads of this: Clones die too easily. This fact hampers shatter mesmers.

Two potential paths are available to remedy the issue;

Make the clones tougher or temporarily invulnerable ( as by giving them distortion. This was suggested for phantasms by the devs in the last livestream ).

Let the situation stand as it is, enemies harm themselves by mindlessly destroying clones.

Grouch’s comment that the play style is “unhealthy” has generated a lot of hate. Still, the build has NEVER been shown to be OP.

It’s being removed simply because it annoyed a dev.

+1 Runeblade, I agree.

Most of it was probably that replacement counted as a death.

runeblade.7514:

StickerHappy.8052:

Pls Read first before whining.

A mesmer in the mesmer forums just gave a wonderful idea.

So to those all whining about condition clone deaths,

How bout just make it like this, instead of punishing the attacker directly, Make it like this:

Vigorous Dissipation

• Grant Vigor to you and your teammates when your clones are killed. 5 seconds ICD. Radius 240. Number of Targets. 5

ICD to prevent spamming.

So yea.

Other examples could be:

• Healing Dissipation
• Condition Removal Dissipation

You guys get the drill.

That way instead of being passive (like most people say), it would be used wisely like condi removal when you wanna kill it with DE.

The balance would be still fair since, you can never really prevent people from killing your clones, so even if its like that, you will still get the benefit. Also the ICD Prevents the spammy nature that people hate

What do you guys think?

Credits to: MailMail Cho

I don’t get why Condition clone death is unfair in the first place.

I agree with you, add ICD to our current clone death traits and It would be balanced.

BUT.

Mesmer’s already have condition application. Clone death, IE (this alone is strong) Scepter (torment is so strong) MtD, Confusion on shatter, etc.

So clone death traits make these sources stronger, so why not focus it on the other aspects? So we could play support too instead of just focusing on killing people.

Ithilwen.1529:

Personally I dislike this idea. Still, the ability to heal from clone death would be pretty nice.

I think that one thing that can be distilled from several related threads of this: Clones die too easily. This fact hampers shatter mesmers.

Two potential paths are available to remedy the issue;

Make the clones tougher or temporarily invulnerable ( as by giving them distortion. This was suggested for phantasms by the devs in the last livestream ).

Let the situation stand as it is, enemies harm themselves by mindlessly destroying clones.

Grouch’s comment that the play style is “unhealthy” has generated a lot of hate. Still, the build has NEVER been shown to be OP.

It’s being removed simply because it annoyed a dev.

I hope you do not get mad, but I will try to explain.

Making clones tougher is hard to balance. how? imagine 3 clones + you doing Staff AA with IE, do you think that would have counterplay?

They will be overloaded with condis (and you with boons) before they can even kill 1 clone.

i suggest that every clone killed (not replaced) will add 10% to your endurance
with that if 3 clones killed you got 30% and with regular endurance regen you get after 1 sec 1 dodge
thus making you less vulnerable to being targeted and your new clone will do some dmg (bit condi pressure)
it wont need any icd cause you cant spam fast all the time 3 clones and it will be good for the burst. if 3 clones dont get killed you can do great dmg (both condi and direct)
if they get killed and your dmg got lower you have the ability to create new one and dodge dmg after your burst failed

@StickerHappy

You’re right, very tough clones would be nasty. So distortion might be the answer.

Better yet, leave the condi clone death or make it baseline. It has never been shown to be OP. The only given reason for removing it is that it annoyed a dev. That simply is not a good reason.

Ithilwen.1529:

@StickerHappy

You’re right, very tough clones would be nasty. So distortion might be the answer.

Better yet, leave the condi clone death or make it baseline. It has never been shown to be OP. The only given reason for removing it is that it annoyed a dev. That simply is not a good reason.

If I were to agree with you making it baseline, It would need an ICD to avoid clone spamming. But good news is that, its still there.

Ithilwen.1529:

@StickerHappy

You’re right, very tough clones would be nasty. So distortion might be the answer.

Better yet, leave the condi clone death or make it baseline. It has never been shown to be OP. The only given reason for removing it is that it annoyed a dev. That simply is not a good reason.

Would they only apply on actual clone deaths or are you want replacement to trigger that effects a well? The latter is probably more of the issue for the developers than the death traits take at just face value.

Guys please stay on the original suggestion please

StickerHappy.8052:

Guys please stay on the original suggestion please

Ok same question as I posted to him, Will it only effect on actual deaths or will replacements trigger it as well?

Here’s s clip for you

https://youtu.be/Yb76AobIgcU

I think that removing the trigger for dodge replacing a clone would be appropriate. That is actually the complaint “grouch” had.

DeWolfe.2174:

Here’s s clip for you

https://youtu.be/Yb76AobIgcU

Lol engie.. Stick with your turrets…

Bran.7425:

StickerHappy.8052:

Guys please stay on the original suggestion please

Ok same question as I posted to him, Will it only effect on actual deaths or will replacements trigger it as well?

It wouldnt matter, if it triggers on both, thats what the icd is for so you cant spam it.

Would potentially still matter in cases where there would be unintended (on the player’s part) proccing setting off the icd due to interaction with Deceptive Evasion.

Bran.7425:

Would potentially still matter in cases where there would be unintended (on the player’s part) proccing setting off the icd due to interaction with Deceptive Evasion.

Thats the point, it will still benefit you and your team regardless, atleast people will stop complaining about condi spam.

At the same atleast we can now support in a way

Thanks for the shout out, Sticker. My post from the Mesmer forums:

I can see why they would want to get rid of the clone death traits due to wanting Mesmers to use their main mechanic more often and not rely on passive game play. I get it, and I somewhat agree even though the effectiveness of one of my favorite builds will die out.

The only issue I take with this is the fact that clones must be able to survive in order to do dmg. This includes phantasms and the path a clone must take when commanded to shatter. No class suffers more from AOE pressure than ours. AOE guts our dmg significantly, and this is a problem in pvp modes.

SUGGESTION
Keep out the offensive clone death traits. Combine Compounding Celerity & Vigorous Revelation for a new trait:
Vigorous Dissipation - Clones apply Vigor (2s) and Swiftness (3s) to nearby allies when they are killed. # of Targets – 5. Radius – 240.

Before, clone death traits would give you an incentive to actually let your clones die. I think going a bit more supportive instead of offensive would be more in line with their ideals and give players less of an incentive to let them die. At the same time, it does cover a major weakness to the Mesmer class by giving you more dodges and the ability to escape a sticky situation.

Afterwards, they can just add vigor onto all shatters with Bountiful Disillusionment, making it even more on par with the boon monsters it’s stealth/interrupt counterparts, PU & CI. Then, they can have another chance at making a more than decent Inspiration trait. How many more chances is it going to take, idk, but I’m willing to give them as many as they need…

Thoughts?

I just had another idea for what they could do buff clone survivability in the Inspiration trait line in place of the much maligned Compounding Celerity:

Ethereal Dissipation: When clones are killed, remaining clones gain x% of their total health. ICD?

You’d have to be pretty delicate with the numbers though. I think the point I want to reiterate is that we need a way to balance our counter of massive AOE dmg. No, we shouldn’t be able to overcome it as every class should have counters, but if we trait for it, we should be able to at least not be so severely impacted by it.

I like your ideas on healing and condi removal on clone death, but I think such a trait would give players an incentive to let their clones die which is NOT the direction the devs want to take Mesmer in moving forward. Whether complaints against clone death builds are warranted or not (check out my sig, I don’t think it’s an OP spec in the least bit as it has some glaring weaknesses) I don’t necessarily disagree with this change.

And for my fellow Mesmers touting how useful it is to “punish players who are mindlessly cleaving clones”, this is completely unavoidable in conquest with small points and isn’t a well thought-out critique or idea.