Guild Wars 2

From Warcraft 3, an RTS, we got the DoTA mod. From Quake, a deathmatch shooter, we got Teamfortress, a class-based team shooter. Half Life -> CS, Etc.

It’s a grand tradition for communities to transform games of one genre into (superior!) competitive games of a different genre. Communities can balance more quickly, and be more responsive towards player feedback.

GW2 doesnt have any modding tools. But we can use Custom Arenas and the RPG features of GW2 as modding tools for a Fighting Game.

GW2 is ideally placed for such a project, since the basic combat is quite action-based, and we have access to most/all of the builds instantly in PvP.

GW2 Team-based Fighting Game

- The community will carefully design 3 builds per class. We can give them set appearances, and specific names. (eg. Red-haired Female Ele = Jennifer = a particular staff DPS build.) Each build (weapons, skills, traits, items) is locked and no player changes are allowed.
ie. We have a fighting game with 24 characters.

- Teams have to pick characters to use from this list. Whether we allow multiples or not is to be decided.

- We’ll start with one game type first, whichever people want. (3v3 DM? Conquest?) Community can run tournaments, leagues, ladders, whatever. Later on alternate game types can be added, but it might be better if different characters were designed for those game types.

The key to success is:
Because the community is designing the characters, there’s no need to worry about the strongest/most OP builds, skills, items. The designers can pick a strength “ceiling”, and create the most skill-based, interesting, and fun builds for each class.

In GW2 currently many skillful builds are unviable because some skill-less OP builds totally over power them. But in this fighting game, with a lower strength ceiling, we can choose those builds to be used.

The community also gains a lot of freedom in balancing. Whilst some skills/traits/items are strong or weak, at least each character can combine various strong and weak aspects to become a balanced character. If we need to buff or nerf a character, we could just give them better/worse items to adjust their power up or down.

We also gain the freedom of quick “patches” – if it’s obvious that certain characters have problems, then we can quickly adjust the build of those character.

Anyways, this is a big project that requires a lot of community effort, but I think this is the quickest way we can get an excellent game out of GW2’s engine, without relying on ANet to fix things.

If we ever get in-game Build Templates, that will make this idea even more viable.

Excellent idea, I fully support this.

But yeah, build templates would be very nice…

Sandbox is what this game need idd, would also want more sandbox in open world ppl, player build walls etc

Engineer template 1

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;2cPkq0f63Ukw0;9;49J-JJ4;005;205-57-U;5sV2DsV2D5V

Elementalist template 1

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-kZ;3BJVV0v4-NFZ0;9;4TJ;0J56A58;514-U;5sV2DsV2D5S

They did it in DC Universe (which was already a MMORPG with a fighting game style) with Legends pvp. In this mode you had to choose one iconic character and fight with him.

And it worked, so I think this might go well here. People enjoyed the idea, even for a game where players interact A LOT with iconic characters.

So, here is one more suggestion: try to link those templates to known characters in the setting. One guardian setting might be based on Logan (who wouldn’t want to punch him in the face?), one engineer setting based on Tybalt, one warrior setting based on Forgal.

redslion.9675:

They did it in DC Universe (which was already a MMORPG with a fighting game style) with Legends pvp. In this mode you had to choose one iconic character and fight with him.

So, here is one more suggestion: try to link those templates to known characters in the setting. One guardian setting might be based on Logan (who wouldn’t want to punch him in the face?), one engineer setting based on Tybalt, one warrior setting based on Forgal.

That’s a neat suggestion, thanks.
Since this is a player-driven thing, i guess we can’t have identical models to the npcs, but it would be cool to have some defining features (eg. Hair color, race, face type) but let people exercise their creativity within those limits. (ie. My Logan looks different to your Logan, but similar).

This is a cool idea! It’s not too different than what this guy here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Defeat-the-Meta-Tournament is trying to do. (Though I like your idea of also having standardised appearances for characters better, as it would mean perfectly even ground)

Rieselle.5079:

redslion.9675:

They did it in DC Universe (which was already a MMORPG with a fighting game style) with Legends pvp. In this mode you had to choose one iconic character and fight with him.

So, here is one more suggestion: try to link those templates to known characters in the setting. One guardian setting might be based on Logan (who wouldn’t want to punch him in the face?), one engineer setting based on Tybalt, one warrior setting based on Forgal.

That’s a neat suggestion, thanks.
Since this is a player-driven thing, i guess we can’t have identical models to the npcs, but it would be cool to have some defining features (eg. Hair color, race, face type) but let people exercise their creativity within those limits. (ie. My Logan looks different to your Logan, but similar).

That is necessary: characters like Trahearne have unique models, and some have armor that are hard to find.

Little Thom’s Brawler

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-s7Bh;1VKkM0S4cL-60;9;4J-J9J27;218-0;029-UNF6;2TsW6TsW68v

Zho’s Rampager

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-Fg-o;1sE-v-d2JEV-0;9V1F;1T9T;037A1;059A;4N-k6;2_JH8_JH85k

Cynn’s Nuker

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-kZ;3BJVV0v4-NFZ0;9;4TJ;0J56A58;514-U;5sV2DsV2D5S

Gadd’s Demolition Scout

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-V70;2cPkq0f63Ukw0;9;49J-JJ4;005;205-57-U;5sV2DsV2D5V

This is a great idea. Should probably start with a list of banned traits/utilities that can’t be used in any build. I’d also say the power aimed for should be set much much lower than current.

Interesting idea

Necros and rangers can just use the few basic builds we see every day, will keep things simple

Fourth.1567:

Should probably start with a list of banned traits/utilities that can’t be used in any build.

Moa.

Yes.
It’d fix so many issues GW2 is running into.

I’d prefer more of a hierarchical or private server sort of setup, but that’s just a dream.
If Anet can’t even put a glory-level requirement on ranked queue… they don’t have the manpower to setup the game for worthwhile player-base controlled tweaking.

Gwen’s Manipulator

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-NFF3l;0VPVz0C7cV-71;9;4JJ9-J06-39-2;309-Ucl6P;1_JH8_JH88s

Mhenlo’s Warden

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7Bxs;1NFV20J3RG-90;9;6TJJ;418A14-58-UN-5;2ZF18ZF185By

Lydia’s Lich

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=;08-_;1kHFC0A4ZJVJ0;9;4J99-T57-5;04;359BUNk6;24JF04JF08Bi

I was pretty close to just not making a Thief one, but:

Anton’s Assassin

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c3RR3;0VwVa0V5R-Vd0;9;499TJ-1;05;047A49;2UNV0T;1sV2DsV2D5BD

Y’all are on point. I was just thinking two days ago that an arena that allowed any and all except fotm kind of thing would be really fun

Will you allow us to submit builds that we made up for review? If yes I am more than happy to create a few builds that are fun to play and have high skill ceiling. For example somehow introducing healer/warder type of builds, control type of builds with little damage, and most of all I’d use skills that are easily telegraphed and look really cool, like Scorpion Wire. This would make it suitable for a potential spectator-friendly game mode.
Edit: Here’s a link of what I thought a healer/support guardian could be like. The last 10 I put into virtues is just filler but a quite fun trait nevertheless.

Hopefully this idea gets a bit more support from the community. Something similar to this being done is about the only way I could take Gw2 seriously as a competitive game again. It really has to fall on the community to make our own regulations for how we want the game to play. Anet doesn’t have the capability to create a competitive game and can’t be relied on.

Here is a couple rough builds that should require more skill to achieve results on than what we are currently seeing while dropping the overall power level. To get this organized I would first create a representative group that understands the issues at hand who then collaboratively creates 10 or so builds per profession. After it should be opened up to the community to vote on 3 of those 10 they would like to see allowed. Then over time increasing the number of builds in smaller increments.

Warrior
Sword + board
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sFw70;0RKVP0f4JL-60;9;4JT-J-21-38B;107;2UNF6;2sV2DsV2D5kj

Axe + hammer
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-s7Bt;1RKFM0e4ZL-60;9;4EEJ-J4;01;029;258-5JF7;2TsW6TsW65gh

Greatsword + mace
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sBxg;1VK-Q0e4oL-60;9;5TJ-J;146914;257-CRH6;2CoF2CoF24BY

Mesmer
Watered down shatter
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-NFcg;1VPV1187JV-71;9;4JJ;0T03-39;537AUs-5;2TsW6TsW65cb

Boon mesmer
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-NFFZ;1k2031S7BWV71;9;6TT9;447A25A1;0SRF6;2CoF2CoF26BK

Condi roamer
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-N3lFR;0VPV1127gW-71;9;4JE-JE48-3;336-4;0TNH64;16Rk06Rk07cs

+1 this sounds good

I agree, custom leagues with no lame builds can be very interesting.

It’s not easy because every class has lame builds/utility/traits but would be very interesting creating a no lame meta.

With a template implementation, would be great to add an option to custom arenas to filter builds, so people who want to join that arena, can chose only for a restricted number of (no lame) builds.

i fully support this idea but:

How do we determine whats balanced and what not?
Who get to choose what balanced whats not?(pro or public.)
It most likely need a solid body/group to host this matches.

LonelyReaper.8075:

i fully support this idea but:

How do we determine whats balanced and what not?
Who get to choose what balanced whats not?(pro or public.)
It most likely need a solid body/group to host this matches.

I think there is no chance where everyone can agree if a specific stuff is balanced or not, so i see only one option:

Builds filtered by custom arenas owner.

It’s easy, i’m the custom arena owner, i (or my group) decide what is balanced/op. If you want to join our custom arenas (where we can fight 1vs1, 2vs2, 5vs5 etc.) you need to accepts the rules (for example you need to accept our "ban list) or you will be kicked

general “ban” list example

Runes: lyssa
Sigils: energy
Utility: Pet (minion spirit. turrets, no phantasmal builds etc). berserker stance, healing signet, shadow refuge, portal, etc.
Elite: MoA, Lich Form etc.
Traits: Diamond Skin, Automated response, Prismatic Understanding, Fresh Air, etc.