Guild Wars 2

Hansen.3264:

And :
Spvp: remove berserker/marauder/valkyrie amulets

Powercreep lowered

Amulets are not the cause of powecreep

From OP:

Necromancer:
• Deathshroud is halved upon death

• Chillblains: cool down increased to 20 seconds chill duration decreased to 3 seconds

• Feast of corruption no longer corrupts a condition

Wow this would be such a terrible balance patch. I play necro mainly so I’ll only go there:
• Deathshroud is halved upon death
Not really sure what this is supposed to achieve. Do respawning Necros kitten you off in some way or another? Necromancers for the most part have quite viable LF gain from the start of a battle anyways, changing this is none other than an kitten you to necromancers, it won’t really change most engagements meaningfully. If shroud is an issue, the max pool and generation is what should be looked at. Has nothing to do with respawn.

• Chillblains: cool down increased to 20 seconds chill duration decreased to 3 seconds
And….No. Doing this would make Chillblains pretty much a reactionary skill, which 4 and 5 already are. This would reduce the zoning capabilities of a weapon that has a terrible auto attack and a mediocre 2.

• Feast of corruption no longer corrupts a condition
Necro axe has so many issues, being in a completely awkward place of not doing enough damage, not being good at life force gain, and low on utility. FoC actually gave it some utility, although presumably only through the trait that triggers it, removing this measly boon corrupt will make the weapon kitten again.

So yeah, lets trash the staff and axe!

Feast of Corruption is Scepter#3. Unholy Feast is Axe#3. Neither corrupts a condition. Unholy Feast corrupts a boon, which is fine.

Necro – DS is halved upon dying

This one really buggs me and id ask for an explanation.

A) start with zero lf, instadie whole game
B) start with zero lf, die but respawn with some leftover, win next fight….about equal 50/50
C) start with zero, somehow win, charge full and snowball whole game
Tldr 0% = freekill , 100% = unwinable 1v1

Exagerated but these are the extreme scanarios.
It has been an often mentioned problem, mostly poeple talked about a value of 20-50% and a starting base or OOC standardization like rev energy.
lifeforce is even bugged since launch, you lose 23% on respawn because of vitality coding

so why would you suggest a more rng, snowballier fix with added penalty ?
Would you agree that the proposed change direction is better, making lifeforce less minmax extreme and easy to tweak the number if needed?

Id agree with it as whole package, the power creep should be cleaned up, just this one particular idea seemed weird and not pointing in same direction as a majority talked for years.

Its possible op meant to adress downed instead of dead. Like in: If you focus and kill the necro before he can enter ds, but that necro gets ressed by some ranger, he cant just start ds rampage. I admit LF not being removed on downed makes some sense, even considering that pretty much everything else (including AF) is removed.
Still it does seem a little odd that being effectively defeated by the enemy team is not punished, as long as one of your teammates takes care of you.

I wanted to put removed on death completely to match other in game mechanics such as astral force and adrenaline but it seemed too extreme so I said halved. When they die they should be fully deleted. When they win a fought they’re rewarded with destroying the next. I don’t think they should be able to have roughly full shroud upon respawn.
As for feast of corruption, yes it’s scepter auto attack 3 not anything on axe lol. And sorry I said corrupt a condition I meant boon.
As for you comment about Chillblains…. Are you kittening kidding me? Your argument is LITERALLY “don’t nerf it because then I’d actually have to think when I use it” that is such kittening backwards thinking. Thoughts like that are why this garbage game is in the state that it is

Going through this thread felt like…..

So many unwarranted necro nerf suggestions. Do us a favor buddy let the reaper community decide on what to do. Id say 9/10 of your nerfs for necro are absolutely kittened

Jelzouki.4128:

So many unwarranted necro nerf suggestions. Do us a favor buddy let the reaper community decide on what to do. Id say 9/10 of your nerfs for necro are absolutely kittened

this was a very dumb response. “Let the people that want it to stay strong to be in charge of nerfing it” ResidentSleeper

Mooncow.6847:

I was bored today so I typed this up on my phone. Sorry for any typos.
I went through every trait and skill and I did almost exclusively nerfs. I would only suggest these nerfs as a whole. If any of the changes to the classes happened individually the class would be dumpstered. The goal of this was to balance things and help deal with some of the massive power creep that has occurred in this game. These changes are only for pvp/wvw not pve. It’s quite long

Engineer:
• Hammer #2-#5 10% dmg nerf
• Electro whirl: cooldown increased to 8 seconds
• Rocket charge: now only has 2 leaps instead of 3. The 2 leaps will travel the same distance as the 3 hits but only evade for 2/3 the duration.
• Shock shield: no longer does dmg, block duration increased by 1 second, still applies vuln CD increased to 24 second
• Thunderclap: 28 second cooldown
• Healing turret: exploding the turret has a 25 sec cooldown not exploding still has 15 sec CD

delete the last remaining heal for engi seems fair without seeing the consequences for it.

• Elixir B: retal decreased to 8 seconds
• Slick shoes: my least favorite skill in the game, cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. This skill can now only hit a player once
• Elixir x rampage duration decreased to 11 seconds
• Bulwark gyro CD increased to 25 seconds
• Sneak gyro: cooldown increased to 50 seconds, ½ second cast time
• Gyro detonations now cause reveal to the engi
• Function gyro now only resses at 50% speed of a player.

here comes the funny part!

Traits:
• Aim assisted rocket now travels at half speed
• Bunker down: bandages now heal for 400 baseline
• Protection injection: projection now lasts 1.5 seconds
• Self regulating defenses is no longer affected by elixir traits (doesn’t cure condition and doesn’t have increased activation time, and doesn’t have reduced CD)
• Perfectly weighted: 10% dmg increase on hammer. Hammer cooldown decreased by 20%
• Recovery matrix: duration decreased to 4 seconds
• Rapid regeneration: swiftness now heals for 55 base and superspeed for 300 base. They can now both overlap the heal
• Adaptive armor: max stacks 5 100 per stack duration 8 seconds. A stack is earned each time an attack is blocked (reflected does not count)

I’m only going to highlight this hilarious “dream patch”

Glad you made some of the engineer changes first because the rest of the list seems bad, and like any other player, the problem with engineer stems from the bunker down trait which is more passive than scrapper. You.. .tried?

I disagree with all ele changes.
The aproach is false. Ele has a base problem in diversity and nerfing some key skills just makes it worse. The usual fault. Ele needs some nerves to sustain in the permanent regeneration COMBINED with a lot of weapon/trait buffs that increase damage or defence for non water specs!

A bit surprised that people still find things to nerf about warriors.

Again agree with the op. You should totally provide your input, since you know your own class best, but ‘self nerf’ usually means thinking about what you conciously ‘dont need too bad’
Necro is literally the most hated class by now, even if you overnerfed it, it would not pe thrown in the deep pit where lies the warrior and thief. After changes like this are deployed, you would always feel free to ask for and eventually receive buffs.
Greatly nerfing the reapers most brainless abilities should also benefit the veteran necro players, since it would stop all those noobs from noobing around with their class, additionaly creating a solid ground to base skill oriented reworks on.

Mooncow.6847:

When they die they should be fully deleted. When they win a fought they’re rewarded with destroying the next. …….. I don’t think they should be able to have roughly full shroud upon respawn.

Well then we are dissagreeing.
I think youre thinking from a top players perspective and only wants results, that 1-2 good necros are left between the top 3-4 teams, and that the necro vs nonnecro team will have equal matchup.
Thats too narrow minded and the value of 100s of forum warriors over last years all leaning in similiar direction is greater here. Its not about xx-tier balance but about design flaws. The good design suggestion can even be easiliy addjusted for balance, but the mechanic stays same.

Warrior – start with 0 , builds up fast
Mesmer – start with 0 clones
Thief – start with full initiative
Rev – start with 50% , regen or degen to always 50% OOC
Necro – start with 0
- mostly some slow unreliable skill generate lifeforce
- again 0 = freekill 100 = immortal snowball

As you see theyre all over the place. By using equality logic i could say “ele needs to hit 4x staff atuos before he can switch attunement”. Which is exact case for shroud and the autos are horridly clunky, all while thief blindspam 100-0 death you.
That is bad design.

Good design is to give just enough lifeforce, so necro isnt freekill, and not too much, so that thief CAN have fair 1v1 chances. (how good are thief 1v1 allowed to be is seperate topic).

This is all base mechanic, regardless of current state of necro in meta.
Whoever wins first fight staff autoatack body and snowballs whole game even harder vs Every skill or nonskill necro gets same standard ammount of lifeforce which can be number addjusted.
Pick your poison.

XGhoul.7426:

Mooncow.6847:

I was bored today so I typed this up on my phone. Sorry for any typos.
I went through every trait and skill and I did almost exclusively nerfs. I would only suggest these nerfs as a whole. If any of the changes to the classes happened individually the class would be dumpstered. The goal of this was to balance things and help deal with some of the massive power creep that has occurred in this game. These changes are only for pvp/wvw not pve. It’s quite long

Engineer:
• Hammer #2-#5 10% dmg nerf
• Electro whirl: cooldown increased to 8 seconds
• Rocket charge: now only has 2 leaps instead of 3. The 2 leaps will travel the same distance as the 3 hits but only evade for 2/3 the duration.
• Shock shield: no longer does dmg, block duration increased by 1 second, still applies vuln CD increased to 24 second
• Thunderclap: 28 second cooldown
• Healing turret: exploding the turret has a 25 sec cooldown not exploding still has 15 sec CD

delete the last remaining heal for engi seems fair without seeing the consequences for it.

• Elixir B: retal decreased to 8 seconds
• Slick shoes: my least favorite skill in the game, cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. This skill can now only hit a player once
• Elixir x rampage duration decreased to 11 seconds
• Bulwark gyro CD increased to 25 seconds
• Sneak gyro: cooldown increased to 50 seconds, ½ second cast time
• Gyro detonations now cause reveal to the engi
• Function gyro now only resses at 50% speed of a player.

here comes the funny part!

Traits:
• Aim assisted rocket now travels at half speed
• Bunker down: bandages now heal for 400 baseline
• Protection injection: projection now lasts 1.5 seconds
• Self regulating defenses is no longer affected by elixir traits (doesn’t cure condition and doesn’t have increased activation time, and doesn’t have reduced CD)
• Perfectly weighted: 10% dmg increase on hammer. Hammer cooldown decreased by 20%
• Recovery matrix: duration decreased to 4 seconds
• Rapid regeneration: swiftness now heals for 55 base and superspeed for 300 base. They can now both overlap the heal
• Adaptive armor: max stacks 5 100 per stack duration 8 seconds. A stack is earned each time an attack is blocked (reflected does not count)

I’m only going to highlight this hilarious “dream patch”

Glad you made some of the engineer changes first because the rest of the list seems bad, and like any other player, the problem with engineer stems from the bunker down trait which is more passive than scrapper. You.. .tried?

Yeah nerfing best heal in game by 5 seconds =deleting it! Let me guess you scrolled down read engi and whined with out realizing every class has been guessed (except guardian, didn’t really know how to balance that honestly)

Completely obliterated Revenant from being viable, nice! Bravo

Not biased at all

XxsdgxX.8109:

Completely obliterated Revenant from being viable, nice! Bravo

Not biased at all

I’m not, I play more revenant than any other class. It needs to be toned down

You are merely addressing skill values.

That won’t really change anything.

Changes must be made not to skill, but to mechanics themselves.

Mooncow.6847:

XxsdgxX.8109:

Completely obliterated Revenant from being viable, nice! Bravo

Not biased at all

I’m not, I play more revenant than any other class. It needs to be toned down

I play “Insert class” alot so I get to know the absolute truth!

Cause that very argument isn’t used the whole time.

Amazing, all OP is trying to do is bring the Elite specs down to core level and people fail to see that so much that its insane.

Fine, i’ll take his nerfs to my class of choice (Engineer) and analyze them one-by-one:

Engineer:
• Hammer #2-#5 10% dmg nerf
>>(in the whole nerf package this makes perfect sense because other classes will lack defenses)
• Electro whirl: cooldown increased to 8 seconds
>>(this is a reflect+high damage + combo melee aoe damage skill on low cd, in other words a 1 BUTTON TO WIN skill.)
• Rocket charge: now only has 2 leaps instead of 3. The 2 leaps will travel the same distance as the 3 hits but only evade for 2/3 the duration.
>>(Each leap heals around for 2k+/-, a bit too much, considering the heal turret has 20 sec cd OR your medic gyro F1 is 25 seconds in cooldown this means you have like almost 2 heals available. Besides, please remember that the idea is to bring this down in line to core class value, meaning, if the 3 leaps remain available, using a Hammer will REMAIN “meta” forever in comparison to Pistols and Rifle.)
• Shock shield: no longer does dmg, block duration increased by 1 second, still applies vuln CD increased to 24 second
>>(With the nerfs to other classes in the offensive and defensive area, taking this as is, is unfair. Please remember that the Hammer is by far the most OP weapon of the moment because of its flexibility.)
• Thunderclap: 28 second cooldown
>>(1500 range aoe dps + stun + lightning field on a 1 BUTTON TO WIN.)
• Healing turret: exploding the turret has a 25 sec cooldown not exploding still has 15 sec CD
>>(2520 self heal + 2520 aoe heal with 2 condi cleanse 5 target 480 radius waterfield combo + 8 sec self and 5 sec aoe regen application not to mention the toolbelt skill. Makes sense, currently this heal skill makes choosing any other heal skills in the Engi a bad choice. The impact of this skill at 25 seconds is still brutal regardless of nerfs. If placed at 25 seconds, choosing other skills won’t be as a punishing choice due to the cost/effectiveness parameter, for example comparing the Medic Gyro who has a 20 sec cd as well but less versatility.)
• Elixir B: retal decreased to 8 seconds
>>(Overall direct damage is good as is, and if classes get nerfed this will be a bit fair.)
• Slick shoes: my least favorite skill in the game, cooldown reduced to 30 seconds. This skill can now only hit a player once
>>(My thoughts exacly. This 45 second skill is a 1 BUTTON TO WIN skill that is far too effective at its skill cap. Currently if you place it well against a player in a 1v1 you can lock the player to fall over 5 times consecutively, allowing you to 1 BUTTON TO WIN the fight! And forget that stability because it won’t save you! Compare this by using Grenades or the Mortar kits and you can see what i mean!)
• Elixir x rampage duration decreased to 11 seconds
>>(Again a 1 BUTTON TO WIN skill that makes you ignore every skill you have to just effectively burst/tank the enemy with 5 skills. Rewards “low skill cap” a bit too much, unlike your MORTAR KIT who has a massive skill cap and is nowhere near as deadly.)
• Bulwark gyro CD increased to 25 seconds
>>(With the nerf package it would be a good choice, we need to consider the classes nerfs to their offensive capability.)
• Sneak gyro: cooldown increased to 50 seconds, ½ second cast time
>>(Again a 1 BUTTON TO WIN skill that sways the battle situation too abrutly, instantly and unfairly. If we consider that you are fighting this engi in a 1v1, he will keep going to stealth and escaping again and again even if interrupted with any crowd control. And destroying that gyro won’t reveal him either. A never ending and unfair fight because of a 1 BUTTON TO WIN skill.)
• Gyro detonations now cause reveal to the engi
>>(I thought they did on their release at HOT, but they don’t. They should. This time around you have choose placement of your character and gyro for maximum output. )
• Function gyro now only resses at 50% speed of a player.
>>(In the right hands this skill helps the down state be less absolute and game changing. Coupling with the regen giving you added ress speed + the healing fields (elixir gun 5 OR mortar 5) you can do some TOO FAST resses right there. The Gyro ress being at 50% would be in line with the Rangers 50% fast Search and Rescue.

Traits:
• Aim assisted rocket now travels at half speed
>>(Hard to tell when to dodge at its current speed indeed.)
• Bunker down: bandages now heal for 400 baseline
>>(To cut on the passive sustain a bit.)
• Protection injection: projection now lasts 1.5 seconds
>>(Boon duration reduction rewards not face tanking and stays in line with other classes nerfs to offense. Besides, you can get more protection if you take the Medic Gyro’s F1 aoe skill. Taking both for almost 100% proto uptime is too good though. At least now if you want to go melee you have to consider the Medic Gyro for “physical defense” and protection uptime over healing turret who is more “condi defense” oriented. The default protection uptime of 3 seconds you have passively is a bit too much and is too impactful at its skill cap. Nerf Approved.)
• Self regulating defenses is no longer affected by elixir traits (doesn’t cure condition and doesn’t have increased activation time, and doesn’t have reduced CD)
>>(Much needed nerf because as it stands now, it makes using the other 2 traits a stupid choice. Again the same scenario from the Steath Gyro, imagine the Engi having that Gyro AND this trait…he will simply keep escaping and coming back. You should be rewarded for staying alive, not from passive traits that save you from death.)
• Perfectly weighted: 10% dmg increase on hammer. Hammer cooldown decreased by 20%
>>(A good change, the trait as it stands now is not a good choice in comparision to the other 2 traits. With this it would be making you actually go into a high risk/high reward choice between Hammer effectiveness and survivebility from the protection giving trait Recovery Matrix.)
• Recovery matrix: duration decreased to 4 seconds
>>(Down from 6 seconds of protection. Now instead of being silly protection uptime, it will now reward you for using your heal and proc it at the right time. Perhaps now using a Medic Gyro will be beneficial due to the gyros instant cast. The Protection being this short makes you consider the cast time of both the gyro and the healing turret for effectiveness purposes.)
• Rapid regeneration: swiftness now heals for 55 base and superspeed for 300 base. They can now both overlap the heal
>>(This trait currently rewards you if you take just swifness or just super speed because of its big numbers. Changing it to this won’t be bad because other classes won’t have as much damage due to nerfs. Now taking both swif and super speed is where this trait shines. This will also open choice to the other 2 traits that no one cares to use due to this ones passive effectiveness.)
• Adaptive armor: max stacks 5 100 per stack duration 8 seconds. A stack is earned each time an attack is blocked (reflected does not count)
>>(This trait does too much as a passive one, and it overshadows the other 2 traits because of this. Its too simple and effective, with these nerfs at least getting that toughness requires some skill from the player. Do you intend on removing the 20% Condition damage aspect as well?)

Thank you for bothering to read. These are my opinions as a devoted Engineer player.

@ryu kaisus
Thank you for your reply and your understanding. As for the 20% condition dmg reduction, nah too passive

Mooncow.6847:

What about what I said makes you think that?

Here’s a start at what you did wrong or failed to do:

Revenant

• General Revenant abilities need a pass on cooldown, energy use, and effect, especially because they can weapon swap (not part of the original design). A lot of abilities have low cooldowns or low energy cost for a larger benefit than abilities of other professions.
• Surge of the Mists The problem isn’t the evade. In fact, it should have an evade or else you’re screwing yourself over. The problem is the damage it can put out. It’s acting like the old “whirlwind against a wall” mechanic. If the damage was significantly reduced, the ability would be mostly fine.
• Enchanted Daggers Consuming a charge when an attack fails to land (block, miss, evade, immune) is more than enough of a nerf.
• Riposting Shadows Agree about removing endurance gain, but the stun break needs to stay. However, adding a long cooldown to stop that goes against the Revenant playstyle. It is a 30 energy ability (could stand to be a bit lower w/o the endurance gain), so it’s not exactly spammable.
• Banish Enchantment This ability needs an energy cost increase to limit how much it can be spammed. It has to remain unblockable so that it can corrupt Aegis (other boon strips are unblockable).
• Mallyx Abilities need a re-design now that they don’t apply self-conditions. The Demonic Defiance trait should be re-designed, since the entire purpose was to protect you from self-conditions, and those no longer exist.
• Pain Absorption This ability is fine. It’s Revenant version of a cleanse. The problem is the Demonic Defiance trait.
• Retribution Some of the passives aren’t too bad, but are too broad. If stability on dodge was limited to Jalis, it would be fine.
• Eye for an Eye This trait is a shining example of passive traits gone too far. Remove the taunt and re-balance.
• Radiant Revival Infuse Light is the problem, not the revive speed increase. Practically every revive trait has the 10% increase now.

Necromancer
You went way too far on this. Condi reaper is supported by two things. Nerf them and it’s pretty balanced:

• Deathly Chill Scaling needs a hefty nerf. It should be a small bonus; not tied for the main damage source from a condi reaper.
• Putrid Curse (Scepter 1c) No longer corrupts boons. This is was a very shortsighted attempt to counter boon spam from elite specs.
  A few other things to look at:
• Signets of Suffering Number of boons corrupted reduce to 1.
• “Rise!” Damage reduction should be based on number of minion hits, not 50% as long as one hits.
• Plague Sending This eventually needs changed, but it’s main strength is against condition damage builds. It can stay for now.
  Chill durations are fine when they aren’t dealing lots of damage. The reaper shouts don’t need many nerfs; they’re a little weak in small fights and stronger in big fights. It’s an interesting mechanic with trade-offs which should stay. If you want to remove life force on death, Necros need to be able to build it much faster and start the game with some. Better to leave it alone for now. Staff is good enough for now.

Guardian
Dragonhunter needs a hefty re-work. Also, you missed the more problematic stuff, including a brain-dead passive:

• Heavy Light Change to 100% chance to knockdown when longbow#3 hits. If you increase the cooldown on True Shot, that may even be a better candidate.
• Purification Healing reduced signficantly
• Wings of Resolve Healing needs reduced
• Traps No longer grant boons.
  Once the elite spec nonsense clears up, guardian will need a thorough review of its core trait lines. A lot of them are too weak, even against core specs, and held up by a handful of overly powerful traits.

Engineer
I haven’t played scrapper a lot, so can’t say what to do with hammer, but

• Slick Shoes Leave it as-is and reduce the total ability duration. That means less puddles total, which means you can’t knock someone down as much.
• Hammer Not sure if it needs a damage nerf. Scrapper’s strength is that it has so many defensive abilities on low cooldowns which also deal significant damage. If you make those less available, it might solve the problems.
• Elixir B Just remove retaliation from it completely. It’s not something engi should have unless they combo for it.
• Healing Turret I’m pretty sure that he cooldown reduction comes from overcharging it. If you explode or pick it up without overcharging, the CD is 20 seconds. Just make it always a 20sec CD regardless of overcharge or explosion.
• Elixir X Change tornado to Lich, increase cooldown of the ability. It’s now a dependable heavy damage elite. Alchemy changes fix the rest.
• Alchemy This trait line is as good as the scrapper trait line or better and needs nerfs. Minor grandmaster is only boon duration. Remove the elixir duration increase from HGH and put the condi clear on elixir use there. Consider removing cooldown reduction from elixirs since it affects so many abilities now.
• Rapid Regeneration Suggest removing swiftness from this altogether. It’s far too easy to have permanent swiftness as engi.
• Perfectly Weighted The stability on evade needs to change (way to easy since you can get it from evading random attacks), but scrapper needs another source of stability which has better counter-play.

That’s a start of what I meant.

Exedore.6320:

Mooncow.6847:

What about what I said makes you think that?

Here’s a start at what you did wrong or failed to do:

Revenant

• General Revenant abilities need a pass on cooldown, energy use, and effect, especially because they can weapon swap (not part of the original design). A lot of abilities have low cooldowns or low energy cost for a larger benefit than abilities of other professions.
• Surge of the Mists The problem isn’t the evade. In fact, it should have an evade or else you’re screwing yourself over. The problem is the damage it can put out. It’s acting like the old “whirlwind against a wall” mechanic. If the damage was significantly reduced, the ability would be mostly fine.
• Enchanted Daggers Consuming a charge when an attack fails to land (block, miss, evade, immune) is more than enough of a nerf.
• Riposting Shadows Agree about removing endurance gain, but the stun break needs to stay. However, adding a long cooldown to stop that goes against the Revenant playstyle. It is a 30 energy ability (could stand to be a bit lower w/o the endurance gain), so it’s not exactly spammable.
• Banish Enchantment This ability needs an energy cost increase to limit how much it can be spammed. It has to remain unblockable so that it can corrupt Aegis (other boon strips are unblockable).
• Mallyx Abilities need a re-design now that they don’t apply self-conditions. The Demonic Defiance trait should be re-designed, since the entire purpose was to protect you from self-conditions, and those no longer exist.
• Pain Absorption This ability is fine. It’s Revenant version of a cleanse. The problem is the Demonic Defiance trait.
• Retribution Some of the passives aren’t too bad, but are too broad. If stability on dodge was limited to Jalis, it would be fine.
• Eye for an Eye This trait is a shining example of passive traits gone too far. Remove the taunt and re-balance.
• Radiant Revival Infuse Light is the problem, not the revive speed increase. Practically every revive trait has the 10% increase now.

Necromancer
You went way too far on this. Condi reaper is supported by two things. Nerf them and it’s pretty balanced:

• Deathly Chill Scaling needs a hefty nerf. It should be a small bonus; not tied for the main damage source from a condi reaper.
• Putrid Curse (Scepter 1c) No longer corrupts boons. This is was a very shortsighted attempt to counter boon spam from elite specs.
  A few other things to look at:
• Signets of Suffering Number of boons corrupted reduce to 1.
• “Rise!” Damage reduction should be based on number of minion hits, not 50% as long as one hits.
• Plague Sending This eventually needs changed, but it’s main strength is against condition damage builds. It can stay for now.
  Chill durations are fine when they aren’t dealing lots of damage. The reaper shouts don’t need many nerfs; they’re a little weak in small fights and stronger in big fights. It’s an interesting mechanic with trade-offs which should stay. If you want to remove life force on death, Necros need to be able to build it much faster and start the game with some. Better to leave it alone for now. Staff is good enough for now.

Guardian
Dragonhunter needs a hefty re-work. Also, you missed the more problematic stuff, including a brain-dead passive:

• Heavy Light Change to 100% chance to knockdown when longbow#3 hits. If you increase the cooldown on True Shot, that may even be a better candidate.
• Purification Healing reduced signficantly
• Wings of Resolve Healing needs reduced
• Traps No longer grant boons.
  Once the elite spec nonsense clears up, guardian will need a thorough review of its core trait lines. A lot of them are too weak, even against core specs, and held up by a handful of overly powerful traits.

Engineer
I haven’t played scrapper a lot, so can’t say what to do with hammer, but

• Slick Shoes Leave it as-is and reduce the total ability duration. That means less puddles total, which means you can’t knock someone down as much.
• Hammer Not sure if it needs a damage nerf. Scrapper’s strength is that it has so many defensive abilities on low cooldowns which also deal significant damage. If you make those less available, it might solve the problems.
• Elixir B Just remove retaliation from it completely. It’s not something engi should have unless they combo for it.
• Healing Turret I’m pretty sure that he cooldown reduction comes from overcharging it. If you explode or pick it up without overcharging, the CD is 20 seconds. Just make it always a 20sec CD regardless of overcharge or explosion.
• Elixir X Change tornado to Lich, increase cooldown of the ability. It’s now a dependable heavy damage elite. Alchemy changes fix the rest.
• Alchemy This trait line is as good as the scrapper trait line or better and needs nerfs. Minor grandmaster is only boon duration. Remove the elixir duration increase from HGH and put the condi clear on elixir use there. Consider removing cooldown reduction from elixirs since it affects so many abilities now.
• Rapid Regeneration Suggest removing swiftness from this altogether. It’s far too easy to have permanent swiftness as engi.
• Perfectly Weighted The stability on evade needs to change (way to easy since you can get it from evading random attacks), but scrapper needs another source of stability which has better counter-play.

That’s a start of what I meant.

Now this is actual feedback unlike the mindless nerfs call outs that are most of the posts here including the one from the OP.

Kudos to you Exedore.

@Exedore
I like what you wrote up and agree with most of it. But I think we have varying opinions. You seem to want minor nerfs, I want huge nerfs that can help strongly with power creep (be that sustain or damage)

First off I was confused about the name of necro scepter auto attack #3, that’s my bad.
As for your thoughts on surge of the mists I probably needed to nerf it more but I think the damage is good, I’d lean towards nerfing the CD or maybe knock back.
Most of the other things we disagreed on goes back to the severity of a nerf I want vs what you want. However engineer heal turret you’d never not overcharge it, so it’s effectively a 15 second cooldown till you blow it up and currently there’s almost never a reason to not blow it up, the change you proposed means it’s literally never good to not blow it up no matter what. My change nerfs the abundance of long lasting waterfields which is a huge issue right now.
On a side note I really like your change to heavy light, that’s an excellent change I didn’t think of

Yea, good luck to anyone who thinks they know how to fix balance. Balancing stuff in this game is such a crap shoot. I mean, sometimes a meta seems obvious as soon as you see the patch notes and sometimes it just ends up completely different.

I think we all saw that warriors were going to still be weak, even after the buffs, but I don’t think many realized just how strong and viable mesmers would be, even after all the nerfs (anyone else remember all the Helseth QQ about how mesmers were dead?).

Still, I wish there was a bit more tweaking to bring warriors up before the season started.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, good luck to anyone who thinks they know how to fix balance. Balancing stuff in this game is such a crap shoot. I mean, sometimes a meta seems obvious as soon as you see the patch notes and sometimes it just ends up completely different.

I think we all saw that warriors were going to still be weak, even after the buffs, but I don’t think many realized just how strong and viable mesmers would be, even after all the nerfs (anyone else remember all the Helseth QQ about how mesmers were dead?).

Still, I wish there was a bit more tweaking to bring warriors up before the season started.

The irony is even I said mesmers would be in a good spot and for the right reasons too.

This could be april fools’ patch xD

Supreme.3164:

I don’t think there is much space for discussion here once again, I mean every TOP player has confirmed that right now ele can’t 1vs1 anything as there is no dmg whatsoever and all that’s left is a healbot build that accomplish nothing on its own.

At this point asking for more nerfs on ele it’s not sad..it’s not laughable…it’s just pathetic and pitiful

that what i thought… i mean, elementalists do fine as support only nowadays, and only as long as they don’t get heavy cced+burst. So this guy wants to remove the support capability. Good. Eles are still good for pve, luckily.

Dahkeus.8243:

Yea, good luck to anyone who thinks they know how to fix balance. Balancing stuff in this game is such a crap shoot. I mean, sometimes a meta seems obvious as soon as you see the patch notes and sometimes it just ends up completely different.

I think we all saw that warriors were going to still be weak, even after the buffs, but I don’t think many realized just how strong and viable mesmers would be, even after all the nerfs (anyone else remember all the Helseth QQ about how mesmers were dead?).

Still, I wish there was a bit more tweaking to bring warriors up before the season started.

I agree, but still it’s undeniable that this patch would certainly lower power levels.

Aenesthesia.1697:

Supreme.3164:

I don’t think there is much space for discussion here once again, I mean every TOP player has confirmed that right now ele can’t 1vs1 anything as there is no dmg whatsoever and all that’s left is a healbot build that accomplish nothing on its own.

At this point asking for more nerfs on ele it’s not sad..it’s not laughable…it’s just pathetic and pitiful

that what i thought… i mean, elementalists do fine as support only nowadays, and only as long as they don’t get heavy cced+burst. So this guy wants to remove the support capability. Good. Eles are still good for pve, luckily.

You have to look at the patch as a whole. Can you imagine if everything’s damage was nerfed and eles healing untouched?

Mooncow.6847:

Aenesthesia.1697:

Supreme.3164:

I don’t think there is much space for discussion here once again, I mean every TOP player has confirmed that right now ele can’t 1vs1 anything as there is no dmg whatsoever and all that’s left is a healbot build that accomplish nothing on its own.

At this point asking for more nerfs on ele it’s not sad..it’s not laughable…it’s just pathetic and pitiful

that what i thought… i mean, elementalists do fine as support only nowadays, and only as long as they don’t get heavy cced+burst. So this guy wants to remove the support capability. Good. Eles are still good for pve, luckily.

You have to look at the patch as a whole. Can you imagine if everything’s damage was nerfed and eles healing untouched?

Lowering the dmg does nothing..nothing at all!

Since launch people have been saying the same things over and over and over again : ele has no damage negation skill, none, and yet at every turn there is somebody with his “dream balance patch” that it’s always about nerfing healing on ele which is what has been given as compensation for the complete lack of damage negation skills

I mean the concept is so easy to understand that at this point people or are either too blinded by hatred to get it…or simply decide to ignore everything to voice their bias

You want to nerf healing, obsidian flesh on ele ..KK so what the ele supposed to do once focused or even 1vs other professions which still have ample access to blocks/CC/teleport/stealth?

2 pages of comments..still no answer…4 years of “dream balance patches” from several individuals ..still no answer

Everybody can sit in his comfy chair, turn on the pc and compile a list of things that annoy him when playing pvp in a game against other profession….done! he’s now a developer

And don’t tell me that “you’re thinking of increasing dmg of scepter skills or similar”..the ele community doesn’t give a kitten of how much you want to increase dmg/speed of skill, the question is always the same, simple straight question : how the hell the ele must survive if he can’t outheal other professions?

2 Pages of comments to show (once again) that anybody can sit in his comfy chair and compile a list of things he doesn’t like and want to see nerfed

Now are you able to come up with a list of positive changes for professions to compensate for your nerfs?…or you’re just another nerfs developer specialist as there already hundreds of them sending their “resume” to anet on a daily basis

Supreme.3164:

ele has no damage negation skill, none

I couldn’t be rolling my eyes harder at what you just said. No damage negation skills? What about perma protection? Insane projectile reflection/destruction, an aura that stuns people when they hit you, an aura that decreases damage by 10%, a skill that grants complete immunity for 4 sec on a 36 sec CD , evades, and blinds. Am I forgetting something?
Edited: oh condi clear too!

Mooncow.6847:

Supreme.3164:

ele has no damage negation skill, none

I couldn’t be rolling my eyes harder at what you just said. No damage negation skills? What about perma protection? Insane projectile reflection/destruction, an aura that stuns people when they hit you, an aura that decreases damage by 10%, a skill that grants complete immunity for 4 sec on a 36 sec CD , evades, and blinds. Am I forgetting something?

First you want to overnerf obsidian flesh so remove the “complete immunity” from your list

Second go take your “perma protection and shocking aura” and go PvP
-To simulate your nerfs I want a video of you playing dagger/warhorn and sage amulet at 500 healing, ( no mistform ) then go with your perma protection and shocking aura and show us how well you survive against focus fire or other professions 1vs1!

Spare me further discussion and just come here with a freaking video, do it!

P.S I can! 1vs1 others with a d/w and win because I played ele for years under all conditions ( including overnerfed states) just go and come with a video that show me how well you know ele and general balance ideology respect to me!

P.S.S I would have not bothered with your thread if you would have left out the ridiculous 60s CD on obsidian flesh that clearly shows that you never played ele in your competitive life not at a level worth considering because obsidian flesh is anything but the god of war form as you make it appear, decent players ( including people like me who know ele inside out) will just time//predict it and CC/burst you down the sec it’s off! so..gl with your video..I’ll be waiting

i think this is really a good average patch, definetely better than the ones anet has proposed in the last year.
I totaly agree on the remove corrupt boon on necro scepter autoattack, will never get tired of saying it untill i see it removed! Was the most toxic antiskill mechanic added to the game, wich promote lazy gameplay and allow kittened to be able to play this class.
And i wont stop posting my video till anet developers open theyr eyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVO1okVpj2Q

I’m actualy thinking to make another one XD XD

Only things i can add to the opener, i would totaly rewatch the corrupt boon table, since its really a mess, like there’s some boon that are much more punished when corrupted than others (see 1 stack of might corrupted in 10 SECONDS OF WEAAAKNESS!!!).
Also, i would like weakness to be applied to condition dmg too, like when you added vulnerability affecting condition dmg, you should have added weakness too.
Then i really think the game would start to be at least decent with these changes.

This is coming from a power warrior/revenant main.

Oh also i forgot: decapitate is absolutely the worst burst skill actualy in the game, i dont mean it has to have same dmg of gunflame (still i think from my experience in mmo that melee attacks have ALWAYS to be stronger than ranged, but seems that in anet they think differently from any other game), still i think they should leave the decapitate damage as it his now (wich is actualy really really bad), but make it a leap like sword 2 of warrior.

Supreme.3164:

Mooncow.6847:

Supreme.3164:

ele has no damage negation skill, none

I couldn’t be rolling my eyes harder at what you just said. No damage negation skills? What about perma protection? Insane projectile reflection/destruction, an aura that stuns people when they hit you, an aura that decreases damage by 10%, a skill that grants complete immunity for 4 sec on a 36 sec CD , evades, and blinds. Am I forgetting something?

First you want to overnerf obsidian flesh so remove the “complete immunity” from your list

Second go take your “perma protection and shocking aura” and go PvP
-To simulate your nerfs I want a video of you playing dagger/warhorn and sage amulet at 500 healing, ( no mistform ) then go with your perma protection and shocking aura and show us how well you survive against focus fire or other professions 1vs1!

Spare me further discussion and just come here with a freaking video, do it!

P.S I can! 1vs1 others with a d/w and win because I played ele for years under all conditions ( including overnerfed states) just go and come with a video that show me how well you know ele and general balance ideology respect to me!

P.S.S I would have not bothered with your thread if you would have left out the ridiculous 60s CD on obsidian flesh that clearly shows that you never played ele in your competitive life not at a level worth considering because obsidian flesh is anything but the god of war form as you make it appear, decent players ( including people like me who know ele inside out) will just time//predict it and CC/burst you down the sec it’s off! so..gl with your video..I’ll be waiting

I think you’re arguing against yourself saying you can win on such a kittenty set up lol

I did not expect a different answer from you @Moncow, I wrote you off as another armchair developer the sec you said :

I couldn’t be rolling my eyes harder at what you just said. No damage negation skills? What about perma protection? Insane projectile reflection/destruction, an aura that stuns people when they hit you, an aura that decreases damage by 10%, a skill that grants complete immunity for 4 sec on a 36 sec CD , evades, and blinds. Am I forgetting something?
Edited: oh condi clear too!

You obviously don’t play ele and know nothing about it outside the wiki page you keep opened at all times

You cherry picked traits/skills from several weapon sets ( dagger offhand-focus) and then morphed them together like ele get all that by default as class

Evades as dodges?…Like all other professions?
Blind?…The pitched up build you made up got no blinds?
Do you even know that shocking aura stun for 1s every 2s ( aura last 3 and 1/2s ) only at mele range and if attacked? And do you know there are professions who get stability on dodge, shout, transform like nothing these days?

The build you made up, uses 4 traits line and 2 different offhand sets…I don’t need any more proof to pinpoint your obvious bias , the same as others

The only ones who agree with you are obviously engies because you barely touched them as obviously a guard will always want to see eles at the bottom as we can outsustain you, necromancers as they can corrupt your boons bypass your blocks and revs which just take a dump on your dh

Personally I think the only ones who don’t desire to see eles at the bottom( or even lower ) are engies ,revs and mesmers…because eles are inconsequential to them as they pose no immediate danger

Buy hey…you can forget about this last comment and I’d rather have you and the rest of the community “reflect” about this blog post

http://www.codingwisdom.com/codingwisdom/2013/03/armchair-game-designers-kitten-me-off.html

Maybe..just maybe you’ll stop with your “idea” of balance