Concern: upcoming elite specs balance

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Posted by: Nomin.5901

Nomin.5901

I realize that the expansion needs to sell and that the elite specs need to be cool and new, but I really hope that the devs keep in mind the insane power creep that happened with HoT and try to avoid it this go around. Balanced options are more healthy for the game and community long-term than a new bloated spec thats fun until almost every class is running it in every situation nullifying any diversity. (HoT)

Carmen

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

They say it adds more new playstyles. So diversity which is the bread and butter for long term exitement. We all know that power creep ruins diversity and ends up in people being forced to play specivic builds/classes/elite to perform well … So it ruins all effort for long term fun.

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Posted by: Urejt.5648

Urejt.5648

deadeye spec is trash so u dont have to worry there.

Yo Hooj Jest Pole

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Nomon ignore balance on this game…. its a pve game….

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Alin.2468

Alin.2468

The new expansion has to be power creep, it needs to be overpowered, otherwise the game will not sell. In the end it’s all about profit, and to attract people in buying the game, players need to feel like they can not win well without it, therefore PoF will have another power creep.

However, this new meta will not last long, only a few months, then the game will slowly, very slowly, get rebalanced.

This is the best elementalist build: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Alin.2468, i might be extremelly wrong, but it feels some will not even start as new meta… some will be stupidly op for what i noticed.

One thing for sure they focused in something they are great at might be the only thing they are actually good, flashy effects and blinding players irl….

ANet needs to start offering sunglasses within the game… for health reasons…

that spellbreaker dome…. freaking huge…. in a spvp map

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

(edited by Aeolus.3615)

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Posted by: kdaddy.5431

kdaddy.5431

If you main PvP or WvW in GW2, its time to get out.

My guild which consisted of 100 or so people back for GW2 has died with only 2 people logging in constantly. ( i did not count myself since i take monthly long breaks now)

Anet said in the Angry Joe interview that the new specs would NOT be stronger then core specs but simply add a different style.

They lied, also the PvP seasons have been horrible with grind to legendary S1-4 and match manipulation 5-7 and some of the worst match making a game can put together.

If you enjoy GW2 PvP then enjoy it for what it is, lets not pretend that Anet will do anything for the betterment of PvP or WvW.

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Posted by: Mr Godlike.6098

Mr Godlike.6098

FA ele gets elite specs that it needed…

I seriously doubt any ele will stay healbot in ranked…out of pure hatred on what tempest/devs done to ele after HoT…

No more mr plz heal me….

Was depressed ele…now depressed druid
Kawaleria (KW)

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Posted by: megilandil.7506

megilandil.7506

deadeye spec is trash so u dont have to worry there.

i hope so, or after tweking by theoricrafters you get a high mobility class with incredible disengaging capacities capable of ataking you at 1200 range … in pvp can be trash but it can be a wvw full of sniper campers hiden in spots of dificult acces killing any sort of roaming or not big big blob game…. a real nightmare

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Posted by: witcher.3197

witcher.3197

HoT won’t become F2P which is a good sign. What that means is they still want to sell HoT so they can’t have the current elite specs be overshadowed entirely by the new ones.

But I’m not holding my breath for it either. We’ll see.

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

expansion is going to be make or break for pvp. simple as that

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

HoT won’t become F2P which is a good sign. What that means is they still want to sell HoT so they can’t have the current elite specs be overshadowed entirely by the new ones.

But I’m not holding my breath for it either. We’ll see.

well hot classes should be made avaliable on the gemstore so players could unlock them. at least that.
it would be like buy hot in modules…

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Mr Godlike.6098

Mr Godlike.6098

deadeye spec is trash so u dont have to worry there.

i hope so, or after tweking by theoricrafters you get a high mobility class with incredible disengaging capacities capable of ataking you at 1200 range … in pvp can be trash but it can be a wvw full of sniper campers hiden in spots of dificult acces killing any sort of roaming or not big big blob game…. a real nightmare

Correction…some ele’s stay on tempest…to torment new thief spec…with sheared reflect….

Don’t we have already enough projectile hate after HoT to deal with this?

Was depressed ele…now depressed druid
Kawaleria (KW)

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Posted by: ArthurDent.9538

ArthurDent.9538

Power creep is mostly inevitable. The only way power creep can be avoided is if all of the new specs are worse than currently existing specs in every situation imaginable. However hopefully we don’t get what happened at the release of HoT where the new specs were better than the old specs in every situation. I would suspect I am suspecting all the specs will be released over powered, hopefully so everyone gets to have some fun with them, however I really hope A-net normalizes them much faster than last time.

14 Dungeon paths soloed
Lupi solos on 9/9 professions
Wost Engi NA

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

Actually flashy effects, new playstyle and diversity is enough and the key. Sadly Powercreep works as selling point too and if ANET can increas their margin they might do it …. Even if it´s only 10%. My opinion is long term effects of power creep are usually worse then the short term money you make. ’Iam PvP and WvW focused so :-/ ..

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Posted by: Vyrulisse.1246

Vyrulisse.1246

HoT won’t become F2P which is a good sign. What that means is they still want to sell HoT so they can’t have the current elite specs be overshadowed entirely by the new ones.

But I’m not holding my breath for it either. We’ll see.

well hot classes should be made avaliable on the gemstore so players could unlock them. at least that.
it would be like buy hot in modules…

They did something similar in GW1. They sold PvP unlocks that opened up content for PvP-only to people that wanted it. I wonder how popular such an idea would be for PvP only players.

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Posted by: Chapell.1346

Chapell.1346

Things might get rough, it may be to early but we shall see on how they tweak things going forward; which is the main concern. if truth be told, i am more excited playing them first generation elite specialization, you know, those out off the book.

[Urge]
Between a master and apprentice, i would love to see the differences.

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

Watch the reveal videos and understand this is gonna be bad.

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Posted by: Wolfric.9380

Wolfric.9380

I watched them and it smells like power creep …

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I predict that there will be loud calls for Mesmer nerfs within hours of release. We’re likely to see some of the same kind of harsh dialing down that Chrono got.

That’s not because the spec will be OP. It’s because it might be deceptive enough to fool some players.

Some months down the road, any new mechanic Mirage introduces may be shared with 1 or more other classes.

I’m actually pretty depressed about this even though I’m over the moon about returning to Elona.

Mesmerising Girl

(edited by Ithilwen.1529)

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

It is interesting that Necromancer will strongly resemble a GW1 Ritualist. The Rt/x can be a very powerful support spec in the earlier game.

Mesmerising Girl

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

HoT won’t become F2P which is a good sign. What that means is they still want to sell HoT so they can’t have the current elite specs be overshadowed entirely by the new ones.

But I’m not holding my breath for it either. We’ll see.

well hot classes should be made avaliable on the gemstore so players could unlock them. at least that.
it would be like buy hot in modules…

They did something similar in GW1. They sold PvP unlocks that opened up content for PvP-only to people that wanted it. I wonder how popular such an idea would be for PvP only players.

well gw1 was(IS) a pvp game with pve… gw2 is a pve game pretending to have pvp, wich imo for pvp players alone i dont thing theres a such thing nowadays…. those players already bailed out.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

(edited by Aeolus.3615)

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Posted by: Khenzy.9348

Khenzy.9348

Fresh Air Ele is going to be pretty godly. With a grandmaster trait that removes condies every half a second when you have superspeed… such a thing removes the need to rely on water to remove condies. The Weaver also offers some interesting defensive skills, so you could potentially have a very well rounded Fresh Air ele, a vastly improved version of what you can have right now.

Ranger’s Soulbeast on the other hand… it seems very bland and their GM traits are utter trash.

(edited by Khenzy.9348)

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Posted by: choovanski.5462

choovanski.5462

Spellbreaker’s tether and 12k heal are pretty lol worthy.

firebrand gets a ton of skill from its tomes. I think bunk guardian might make a comeback.

. Engi & Warr . Beta > 2017 Death of PvP
currently a Boyfriend main :P
Waiting To ReRoll Mystic & Forget About Tyria

(edited by choovanski.5462)

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Posted by: LughLongArm.5460

LughLongArm.5460

For Hot, the power creep and having the elite specialization trait line as a default was unavoidable. But for the new upcoming elite specializations, I really hope and want to believe it wont be the case. The elite specializations must compete with the old HOT elite specializations.

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Posted by: Crinn.7864

Crinn.7864

I’ll tell you want will happen.

1) Some of the elite specs will be come meta, and people will whine about power creep.
2) Some of the elite specs (looking at you scourge and deadeye) will not be meta over the old elites and those classes will whine about the expansion being pointless.

Sanity is for the weak minded.
YouTube

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

Remember when ANET said the HOT elite specs would just be a new way to play the class and not OP…..yeah i remember.

PoF specs will be crazy OP where anyone who is on the fence about buying it will realize they can’t compete in pvp or wvw without the new specs, will be instakicked from raids and will either quit the game or more likely buy the expansion.

Master plan in action.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: xeonage.1253

xeonage.1253

So I don’t pay for it this time, even if PoF haven’t powercreep problem (LOL,do you think this is possible?) but HoT powercreep effect still here and haven’t any improve. You can look at condi for example, Condi system still have no any improve/change since pre HoT come out.

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Posted by: Daishi.6027

Daishi.6027

I’m intrigued with the “ammunition” mechanic and I’m banking most of my hope for PvP on that.

But really, if PvP does not use that mechanics and we just get the elite specs flat without any major balance changes that fundamentally change how the game is played, we will be back in the same situation regardless of what level of balance the new elite specs bring.

Because at the end of the day worst case we might get more, or different apex predators but the core issues will not be fixed.

“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”

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Posted by: xeonage.1253

xeonage.1253

And PvE is not a long term plan in the market today, people may be come and play the new content for freshness, but if you can’t continue to offer enough new content (new 3D model, new map ,new story, new enemy, new reward , new raid …… there are too many thing , too many resources ) peoples will leave the game like HoT. May be Anet still keep working on this situation is fine, but i have waited for 2 year, this time i don’t want to join again.

(edited by xeonage.1253)

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Posted by: Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

Xanctus The Dragonslayer.2318

i just hope the elite specs are equal to the curren elite specs

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

I predict that there will be loud calls for Mesmer nerfs within hours of release. We’re likely to see some of the same kind of harsh dialing down that Chrono got.

That’s not because the spec will be OP. It’s because it might be deceptive enough to fool some players.

Some months down the road, any new mechanic Mirage introduces may be shared with 1 or more other classes.

I’m actually pretty depressed about this even though I’m over the moon about returning to Elona.

Stacking that much condi pressure with just dodges is broken

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Posted by: Ithilwen.1529

Ithilwen.1529

I predict that there will be loud calls for Mesmer nerfs within hours of release. We’re likely to see some of the same kind of harsh dialing down that Chrono got.

That’s not because the spec will be OP. It’s because it might be deceptive enough to fool some players.

Some months down the road, any new mechanic Mirage introduces may be shared with 1 or more other classes.

I’m actually pretty depressed about this even though I’m over the moon about returning to Elona.

Stacking that much condi pressure with just dodges is broken

And so, it begins.

Mesmerising Girl

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Posted by: Sultane.9150

Sultane.9150

No matter what, people will complain. Today they complain that we have a stale meta. When expansion comes out, they’ll complain that everything’s unbalanced.

Can’t you just not complain and enjoy the game? I like how the meta is balanced currently. But I’m also pretty excited to see what’ll be OP on release and wreck some plebs with a super OP build; that’s always been fun.

But really, with major updates comes imbalance. That will always be a given. Expect it, and exploit it till Anet takes it away and rebalances the game. It’s always fun to exploit.

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Posted by: Azukas.1426

Azukas.1426

I predict that there will be loud calls for Mesmer nerfs within hours of release. We’re likely to see some of the same kind of harsh dialing down that Chrono got.

That’s not because the spec will be OP. It’s because it might be deceptive enough to fool some players.

Some months down the road, any new mechanic Mirage introduces may be shared with 1 or more other classes.

I’m actually pretty depressed about this even though I’m over the moon about returning to Elona.

Stacking that much condi pressure with just dodges is broken

And so, it has to happen.

Corrected it. Remember you posted your video of your gameplay? Remember how we all understood why you make the claims that you do?

Look at a certain skill level you begin to realize how this game’s balance really is. You also can identify extremely broken concepts before they happen based on your understanding of the game mechanics.

As a mesmer I do NOT want my next elite to be an AI passive OP damage build. Pass on that

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Posted by: Zintrothen.1056

Zintrothen.1056

I predict that there will be loud calls for Mesmer nerfs within hours of release. We’re likely to see some of the same kind of harsh dialing down that Chrono got.

That’s not because the spec will be OP. It’s because it might be deceptive enough to fool some players.

Some months down the road, any new mechanic Mirage introduces may be shared with 1 or more other classes.

I’m actually pretty depressed about this even though I’m over the moon about returning to Elona.

Stacking that much condi pressure with just dodges is broken

And so, it begins.

Trust me, condi Mirage will be one of the most broken specs come release. That is, unless we can beg hard enough for anet to nerf them. Everyone will be running the stun break on dodge because who the kitten wouldn’t take that? Like seriously, who thought that was a good idea? It’s bad enough we have thieves who can break all movement impairing conditions on dodge, but now mesmers will be able to break stuns and remove a condi. At least Mirages don’t get a third dodge bar and a few skills that refresh your endurance. That’s the only thing so far that is keeping that trait in check. Maybe an internal CD will also help, but I don’t like internal CDs, so I won’t be happy until the whole trait is reworked.

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Posted by: mistsim.2748

mistsim.2748

what balance? you mean no balance. when HoT came out, balance was broken for 8+ months, just like with any other major revamp. same will happen now, you just better hope the spec you play isnt getting the kitten end of the stick. simply let go of your conception of balance, and you’ll be fine. enjoy the new toys and meta.

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Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

I predict that there will be loud calls for Mesmer nerfs within hours of release. We’re likely to see some of the same kind of harsh dialing down that Chrono got.

That’s not because the spec will be OP. It’s because it might be deceptive enough to fool some players.

Some months down the road, any new mechanic Mirage introduces may be shared with 1 or more other classes.

I’m actually pretty depressed about this even though I’m over the moon about returning to Elona.

Stacking that much condi pressure with just dodges is broken

And so, it begins.

Trust me, condi Mirage will be one of the most broken specs come release. That is, unless we can beg hard enough for anet to nerf them. Everyone will be running the stun break on dodge because who the kitten wouldn’t take that? Like seriously, who thought that was a good idea? It’s bad enough we have thieves who can break all movement impairing conditions on dodge, but now mesmers will be able to break stuns and remove a condi. At least Mirages don’t get a third dodge bar and a few skills that refresh your endurance. That’s the only thing so far that is keeping that trait in check. Maybe an internal CD will also help, but I don’t like internal CDs, so I won’t be happy until the whole trait is reworked.

I think some of the mirage traits as you say add way too much survivability to it however one thing I’d like to point out at the current point of writing is that it’s much more dependant on clones.

There’s a world of difference between phantasms/phantasm spam combined with shattering to clone spam and clone retention. Most clones have about 5k health which means team fights will be a complete no go for mirage. Additionally most power builds will cleave through them in 1-2 attacks without much effort, all the footage we’ve seen so far has been ideal circumstances (3 clones on a golem) where they aren’t being actively fought.

I have some concerns about the traits and how much survivability it’s packing into the trait line however I’m also acutely aware that clones die so easily that AoE and cleave could potentially render the spec completely neutralised.

Now is also a good time to point out to many in this thread that there seems to be much more cast times on skills. Much of the skills I saw from guardians had good support it seems but come with a 3/4s+ cast time increasing the amount of time to react and interrupt. A lot of skills that I’ve seen also have pretty decent cool downs, I don’t remember seeing anything that was a big effect on a 4-6s cool down. I really hope this is a trend seen throughout the new expansion where there’s more costs to big effects unlike in HoT where many strong skills not only had low cast times but also low cool downs.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

For Hot, the power creep and having the elite specialization trait line as a default was unavoidable. But for the new upcoming elite specializations, I really hope and want to believe it wont be the case. The elite specializations must compete with the old HOT elite specializations.

well i still would love more damage on DH F2 virtue when the damage on landing is traited..:\ at least more base damage, the heal could be a bit boosted as well, Guard vietues are ment to be strong any ways besides that DH is just a trapp spammers that cant deal with mediocre players( when ic a DH expetinf me to trigger their traps while i notice the trap animation… yeah right), DH is awfull due the trap utilities ith onlyworks in a power creep momment.

oh and if ANet changed sudently traps for something else even if was just simbols it would be far better that the trap’s as utilities -.-#

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Vargamonth.2047

Vargamonth.2047

Now is also a good time to point out to many in this thread that there seems to be much more cast times on skills. Much of the skills I saw from guardians had good support it seems but come with a 3/4s+ cast time increasing the amount of time to react and interrupt. A lot of skills that I’ve seen also have pretty decent cool downs, I don’t remember seeing anything that was a big effect on a 4-6s cool down. I really hope this is a trend seen throughout the new expansion where there’s more costs to big effects unlike in HoT where many strong skills not only had low cast times but also low cool downs.

At the same time, those are clear examples of how the game has evolved to a complete mess.
I recall posting long long time ago how Valorous Defense, the minor trait that grants Guardians Aegis at 50% HP, was bad design, as it was a somewhat random proc that could block from a negligible AoE or multihit tick to some powerful move like an eviscerate or some hard CC, and how it should probably be replaced with a short duration protection to make the effect more consistent.
Now, on the other hand, we are on a point where we can put AoE Aegis effects on 1s long casts (or blinds on 3/4s moves), which obviously can’t be used to mitigate something as an aswer to its animation (they will just randomly block something, most likely an AoE tick), as if it was perfectly fine.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Odds this expansion delivers huge power creep: 100%.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Vargamonth.2047, blocking some random autos atack and aoe tick is what makes Anet capable of adding more blocks to guardian, wich means more heal on block or damge on block while blocks burning targets.

I think its a good trade off, the mess is on the offensive where the game gets very easy to play where teamplay is barelly no existent.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

I predict that there will be loud calls for Mesmer nerfs within hours of release. We’re likely to see some of the same kind of harsh dialing down that Chrono got.

That’s not because the spec will be OP. It’s because it might be deceptive enough to fool some players.

Some months down the road, any new mechanic Mirage introduces may be shared with 1 or more other classes.

I’m actually pretty depressed about this even though I’m over the moon about returning to Elona.

Mesmer has been the best class since HOT came out and it still is. That was some sure “harsh dialing down”. lol its like you people dont live in the real world

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

Fresh Air Ele is going to be pretty godly. With a grandmaster trait that removes condies every half a second when you have superspeed… such a thing removes the need to rely on water to remove condies. The Weaver also offers some interesting defensive skills, so you could potentially have a very well rounded Fresh Air ele, a vastly improved version of what you can have right now.

Ranger’s Soulbeast on the other hand… it seems very bland and their GM traits are utter trash.

Fresh air will be thief fodder still. Theory craft 95% of builds and the chances are thief will make them not viable on its own. You cant avoid thieves as they are fast so if your spec is bad vs thieves then you cant play it.

Doesnt matter what fresh air ele tries to do when they get 1 shot by thieves whilst being perma stunned

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Vargamonth.2047

Vargamonth.2047

Vargamonth.2047, blocking some random autos atack and aoe tick is what makes Anet capable of adding more blocks to guardian, wich means more heal on block or damge on block while blocks burning targets.

I think its a good trade off, the mess is on the offensive where the game gets very easy to play where teamplay is barelly no existent.

I know, but I still think its sad to see those single attack blocks, which had their use in the early days, becoming some random unreliable mitigation that trigger some traits here and there.
I’m probably too nostalgic about how the original game felt, when things could be powerful if used at the right time, when we would blind or block an earthsaker and completely negate a powerful multihit move with shelter (also reinforcing ourselves through a no ICD Might of the Protector). I guess those right moments are still there all the time for top players, I just can’t see them anymore.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Vargamonth.2047 well, https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aegis
this is what the trait should do..^^

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: LinhZeri.6412

LinhZeri.6412

Vargamonth.2047, blocking some random autos atack and aoe tick is what makes Anet capable of adding more blocks to guardian, wich means more heal on block or damge on block while blocks burning targets.

I think its a good trade off, the mess is on the offensive where the game gets very easy to play where teamplay is barelly no existent.

I know, but I still think its sad to see those single attack blocks, which had their use in the early days, becoming some random unreliable mitigation that trigger some traits here and there.
I’m probably too nostalgic about how the original game felt, when things could be powerful if used at the right time, when we would blind or block an earthsaker and completely negate a powerful multihit move with shelter (also reinforcing ourselves through a no ICD Might of the Protector). I guess those right moments are still there all the time for top players, I just can’t see them anymore.

Don’t worry I get ya it isn’t nostalgia its the passion to want proper balance in a game we all love. If you look at my history you will prob see me b**ing a lot about balance and this direction this game has went but its more just to get the word out. I never check back at replies though as only Anets word matters to me lol.

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

Nothing they can do can possibly be worse than how it is now… With skill-less builds dominating the more complicated combos.

Hopefully we will get some diversity again and I may reinstall the game.

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Posted by: Kuya.6495

Kuya.6495

I somehow feel that while necros and guards are dissatisfied with the new elite specs, i can see a lot of synergy in pvp between two condi specs where firebrands put down healing, condi cleanse, stabilty and stunbreak but is vulnerable to phys dps burst, while the scourge covers this weakness by providing barriers whilst having its own weakness, a lack of stability and not enough healing, covered by the firebrand. Meanwhile, both are putting down torment, bleeds, burning, and poison with the added bonus that the scourge corrupts away resistance and the firebrand can allow the scourge to not worry about bringing condi transfers and cleanses.

(edited by Kuya.6495)

Concern: upcoming elite specs balance

in PvP

Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

Meh i gave up a long time ago hoping ANET will have good balance which is why i now have 6 classes with HOT elites unlocked and can play any of them in WvW/PVE depending on what is OP and what is fun.

in PvP its even easier since you dont need to be level 80.

People will jump on whatever is OP , The ones who dont will QQ on forums and ANET will eventually nerf that class hard. In doing that they will make another class OP and the bandwagoners will move to that. The cycle starts again.

However ive noticed ANET’s balance cycle is so slow you may as well hop onto the OP Class because it will be months before it gets nerfed enough to become underpowered.

I recently made a new Mesmer toon in anticipation. Looks like it may get some use. LOL.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "