Guild Wars 2

I agree with your recent blog post in general terms. The thought process makes sense. Those who spec into condition specs need to do more condition damage. Those who do not = need to do less.

The problem is this all falls apart with might. Warriors, elementalists and engineers can constantly keep up 25 stacks of might in 2v2s and even close to that in 1v1. So with celestial and might they will have 1200 condition damage. And be tanky. And have massive healing.

So I think these changes actually make these celestial specs stronger than they are currently. I do not believe a 10% nerf to celestial is even close to sufficient to cancel out two things:
1, Their condition damage will be even higher
2, They will have more traits

More traits = they can make use of their stats better. Imagine now they can take an extra regen trait to improve their usage of the healing stat. More traits means its easier to be strong in all areas. Which is a buff to celestial.

I think your changes have ignored might. Might will mean celestial specs easily clear the hurdle of 700 condition damage, and that they continue to terrorize gw2 pvp.

Please reconsider these changes, or please make sure the celestial nerf is significant enough to have an effect – 15-20% minimum.

condi is going to be scary, and hybrid with might has more than potential.

with mortar kit and these changes i can see HGH coming back with an unholy vengeance.

Condition won’t be scary imo. What is scary is the fact that celestial will be better than ever with these changes. Unless its nerfed 15%. These are for the two reasons I stated above.

Rickster.8752:

Condition won’t be scary imo. What is scary is the fact that celestial will be better than ever with these changes. Unless its nerfed 15%. These are for the two reasons I stated above.

perhaps not so much in pvp, but in wvw ohhhhh boy… let’s just say i know people with condi builds that have 2000 condition damage.

Keep the might generation in check and they actually are much weaker than they are now. They also lose stats of trait lines so some of their stats will be much lower to boot. They will have less toughness, vitality, healing power and boon duration so the build will be more manageable and easier to keep in check.

Sigmoid.7082:

Keep the might generation in check and they actually are much weaker than they are now. They also lose stats of trait lines so some of their stats will be much lower to boot. They will have less toughness, vitality, healing power and boon duration so the build will be more manageable and easier to keep in check.

Yeh but the might generation won’t be in check. Warrior can instantly stack 15 stacks of might on his own.

Rickster.8752:

Sigmoid.7082:

Keep the might generation in check and they actually are much weaker than they are now. They also lose stats of trait lines so some of their stats will be much lower to boot. They will have less toughness, vitality, healing power and boon duration so the build will be more manageable and easier to keep in check.

Yeh but the might generation won’t be in check. Warrior can instantly stack 15 stacks of might on his own.

For one they will have lower stats and for second they will have less boon duration do the stacks won’t last as long. Further more boon removal is s thing and they count as a single stack. Maybe classes have access to lots of boon removal. Again not an issue. This change makes Condi’s on power builds weaker, Condi’s on cele build average at best if you let them stack up enough might and it improves them on condi builds since they were lacklustre.

Sigmoid.7082:

Rickster.8752:

Sigmoid.7082:

Keep the might generation in check and they actually are much weaker than they are now. They also lose stats of trait lines so some of their stats will be much lower to boot. They will have less toughness, vitality, healing power and boon duration so the build will be more manageable and easier to keep in check.

Yeh but the might generation won’t be in check. Warrior can instantly stack 15 stacks of might on his own.

For one they will have lower stats and for second they will have less boon duration do the stacks won’t last as long. Further more boon removal is s thing and they count as a single stack. Maybe classes have access to lots of boon removal. Again not an issue. This change makes Condi’s on power builds weaker, Condi’s on cele build average at best if you let them stack up enough might and it improves them on condi builds since they were lacklustre.

How does it make condis on celestial worse? It massively buffs them. Celestial warrior/ele/engi has as much condi damage stats as a full condition necromancer because they just stack might over and over. Boon removal does not matter at all because they can so easily and quickly stack the might.

This change is a buff to celestial because they will do even more condi damage. I would imagine a celestial build averages around 1k condition damage

I’ll put it bluntly. They will maintain less might because they lose 30% boon duration.

They have lower base condition damage because they lose it from traits and it will just come from their ammy. Dedicated condi builds will have far more. They need around 10-11 stacks of might to break even damage wise.

Boon removal is essential and just as easy as it is to stack might. If you can’t keep someones might in check its not my fault because its easy to do with the amount of boon removal in the game.

No matter how you look at it those builds are becoming weaker stat wise than they are now and should be far more manageable.

idk where you pull your strange numbers from but eles and engis don’t stack might anymore..

as a d/d ele you have (now) 538 condi damage, -10% from celestial nerf, -100 from traitlines and +80 or so from the base stats increase which will result in around roughly 480 condi damage. they say the break even point is 700 condi damage, so to achieve that you would need 6 might stacks to only deal the same amount of condition damage you deal now. all the time before you reach 6 stacks you will actually deal less condition damage than now.

the loss of 30% boon duration will also cripple might stacking a lot so in fact celestial will deal less damage than it does now. maybe warrior will still deal the same amount because they generally stack more might but ele and engi certainly won’t.

Jekkt.6045:

idk where you pull your strange numbers from but eles and engis don’t stack might anymore..

as a d/d ele you have (now) 538 condi damage, -10% from celestial nerf, -100 from traitlines and +80 or so from the base stats increase which will result in around roughly 480 condi damage. they say the break even point is 700 condi damage, so to achieve that you would need 6 might stacks to only deal the same amount of condition damage you deal now. all the time before you reach 6 stacks you will actually deal less condition damage than now.

the loss of 30% boon duration will also cripple might stacking a lot so in fact celestial will deal less damage than it does now. maybe warrior will still deal the same amount because they generally stack more might but ele and engi certainly won’t.

Well 6 stacks is literally nothing. In a 1v1 an ele can easily sustain that…and more. Boon duration changes are good. But my guess is they do something dumb with that and buff all boon durations.

Regardless – even with a 10% nerf, celestial will still be 25% more stats than other amulets. That is unacceptable. It is worse than gear grinds in games like WoW. At the moment celestial players have a 37% advanatage on other players. Hence why the only way to counter them is to 1 shot them. Because any long term advantage is all theirs with their insane stat advantage. No wonder previously clueless players emerged at the “top level” purely due to celestial.

It needs more than a 10% nerf. Way more.

Literally one necro or mesmer will remove enough boons to make might stacking up to extremely high numbers difficult. As a whole its going to be harder to maintain high stacks of might.

They will have less HP, armour, and healing power so there sustain should also be lower. Again all stats lost from traits.

you can maintain stacks if you go for a full might rotation which is most of the time less desireable than a rotation that counters what you’re facing (except the might rota is the counter) so you will have maybe 10 stacks at best or less if you don’t run battle sigil anymore.

what you seem to miss is that while it’s a mediocre benefit for celestial classes it’s a crazy boost for condition classes.

not only will ele war and engi be able to, more or less, stack might but so will revenants necros and rangers. you can actually stack might on all of the classes it’s just that the access to condis or self sustain are not that great to make celestial viable on them.

+- you can keep 10-15 might stacks uptime on all classes and i have tested this before. who knows, maybe celestial necro or ranger will be a thing after the patches, or maybe celestial won’t even be meta anymore.

all in all this thread is just another celestial whine. “nerf celestial” more, even before it gets nerfed and has already been nerfed once.

the only might stacking cele engi has is the sigil of battle. however, HGH can hit 25 on it’s own- hence why we may see it make a comeback.

Jekkt.6045:

you can maintain stacks if you go for a full might rotation which is most of the time less desireable than a rotation that counters what you’re facing (except the might rota is the counter) so you will have maybe 10 stacks at best or less if you don’t run battle sigil anymore.

what you seem to miss is that while it’s a mediocre benefit for celestial classes it’s a crazy boost for condition classes.

not only will ele war and engi be able to, more or less, stack might but so will revenants necros and rangers. you can actually stack might on all of the classes it’s just that the access to condis or self sustain are not that great to make celestial viable on them.

+- you can keep 10-15 might stacks uptime on all classes and i have tested this before. who knows, maybe celestial necro or ranger will be a thing after the patches, or maybe celestial won’t even be meta anymore.

all in all this thread is just another celestial whine. “nerf celestial” more, even before it gets nerfed and has already been nerfed once.

And that is in a 1v1. So in a 1v1 celestial will have more condi damage because they will sustain 10 stacks on average. In a 2v2 or 3v3 these celestial front liners (who heals each other and themselves to an absurd extent) will be giving each other a ton of might. 25 stacks almost constantly, I have seen it happen. And then their condi damage will be a joke.

Add in the extra traits suiting celestial more than anyone and I believe celestial needs a 20% nerf. Then it will be more in line with other amulets and the stat advantage less severe.

Many people play this game because its supposedly a level playing field with no gear advantage. That was thrown out of the window by celestial. 37% more is a joke. It is a huge figure, and ele, warrior and engi can use all these stats very well

They should just gut the Cele amulet. It has caused more damage than good.

It’s the main cause of skilless face roll play from all 3 of the classes that abuse it.

balance and wvw?? r u one of the million staff guardians ? have u seen the amazing dragonslayer spec u will get in expansion? it knocks out of the water any dd ele build

correct me if i am wrong but wasnt the cele supposed to get a nerf??

Cele is getting nerfed, but I think the OP is contending that even w/ the nerf celestial classes will still do more condi damage. I think it’s too early to tell whether cele will become weaker or stronger at this point. Keep in mind that the meta zerker builds are getting buffed through the roof. So if you kept celestial at the same power level, then cele builds would actually become relatively weaker.

I’m more concerned about how condi classes will become even more binary. If your condi spam > their condi-cleanse spam, then you will completely wreck them even harder than now. If their condi-cleanse spam > your condi spam, then you’ll remain worthless. Increasing condi dmg or duration exacerbates this problem.