Guild Wars 2

This patch was not the works of a well known company nor was it worth saying it was in the right direction.

Warriors – are still the same and trying to make them condi is stupid to say the least. And if that was you intention it is horrible compared to other condi classes. None of these changes help Warriors. We are still outclassed and out picked by other/better choice for teams. Die hard warriors think different only until they get demolished over and over by condi classes. Buff Warriors for a change.

Thief – are still the same. None of these changes help Thiefs.

Ranger – are still the same. None of these changes help Rangers. We only took a minor hit from the condi removal nerf and still are using only 1 or 2 builds.

Necro – Still need to do more testing with Necro but as a whole they were always strong in team comps but this patch didn’t do much except tease people to try power build again when condi build is way more survivable and does more damage in the long term and is best for the current meta.

Mesmer – Nerf Nerf Nerf…thats what I saw. Portal is now countered by just standing on it….THAT DOES NOT TAKE SKILL. Mind Stab only hits 3 targets…MIND STAB was never good in the first place. It stopped you from moving. Mirror was never a good heal in the first place and giving 1 more sec to reflection will not change it. Mesmers are still a 1 build class for teams and now we have less reason to take them because of nerfs.

Guardian – So I guess you want teams to be more tanky…sad Guardians got a nice buff but they were already really strong. Use the time to work on your broken classes.

Engi – Still really strong, still can do 100 nades and your minor mini nerf did nothing. the second 100 nades was gimmicky and was just over kill anyways. Engis never really needed it to demolish other burst builds or most build in general. Engi condi damage and survivability is kitten amazing. Don’t nerf them instead buff other classes to this OP state.

Ele – Still very strong and you did nothing really to the tanky builds…

In general I am very disappointed with the patch. Stop wasting your time with these lack-luster mini buff and nerf and rework them if they need it. I want to be able to play more than 1 or 2 build with each class. I get so bored playing the same shiz over and over. You have had SOOOOOOOO long to get this game going but you are still wasting your time with PvE which will never hold this game over like PvP can. Look at all E-sports…I don’t see PvE games in there… Other games that are in ALPHA and BETA have more pvp content flowing and they already have E-Sports support programs…spectator to name one of MANY. Fix the game or it will go from 200 viewers watching to 5 because anyone that streams will leave to a better game.

If a game came out right now that would have this games mechanics I would leave in a heartbeat because there is nothing keeping me here beside that I love this type of combat.

Balance isn’t pvp exclusive.
Every area in this game professions are struggling to have more builds.
They need to get on this.

I dont agree with class balance issues Apollo. but dont have the time to write now. We do need more builds however.

Then it’s worse then I thought. I don’t think they realize they depend on people like us for jobs. If I see a game with this games company or people that worked on this game in the credits I will be less likely to buy it at this point.

As one of the game’s few dedicated streamers left. I agree almost 100% with OP.

These are some pretty odd expectations for balance changes. Warriors need changes, I’ll give you that, but I’m not sure where you’re going with any of the other professions:

—Thieves are sitting good as a mid-tier profession in tournaments and are still way too much of a noobstomp profession in hotjoins and WvW to consider buffing. They’re still used by good tournament teams as well.
—Rangers are still sitting great as a top-tier profession in tournaments and have at least two tournament-viable builds.
—Necro axe has needed a huge buff for a long time and this probably wasn’t enough.
—Players can’t obstruct other players, so portal is unaffected by that. I’m impressed that you expect to hit more than three targets with mind stab in PvP. Mesmers are still top-tier in tournaments.
—Guardians received some bugfixes.
—You seem to have trouble fighting engineers. They’re generally considered one of the worst three professions, although I’ll agree that they’re better than most people give them credit for. I haven’t seen them called OP since last August.
—Ele sustain was nerfed pretty directly. Eles will still be very good and will probably maintain their position as the widely-accepted “best” profession.

Apollo.7389:

Engi – Still really strong, still can do 100 nades and your minor mini nerf did nothing. the second 100 nades was gimmicky and was just over kill anyways. Engis never really needed it to demolish other burst builds or most build in general. Engi condi damage and survivability is kitten amazing. Don’t nerf them instead buff other classes to this OP state.

I think you should of said balance other classes to engi because engi is neither op or up, some classes would recieve a nerf others a buff i guess….

@Apollo

Really are you calling Engineer OP?

Engineer is the least represented class in the game, and the last poll engineer were ranked 5th-8th place on average.

Right now the patch isn’t working as intended for kit refinement, but once it is, a lot of build will be destroyed.

The majority didn’t mind a nerf to 100nade burst. But this nerf doesn’t affect the 100nade damage. It will pretty much destroy the 3-4 kit build that relied on this trait. You know, those build that didn’t make it in the meta.

And with your Warrior, good luck fighting HGH Engineer. Because now it’s the only thing you’ll fight.

Mesmer – Nerf Nerf Nerf…thats what I saw. Portal is now countered by just standing on it….THAT DOES NOT TAKE SKILL. Mind Stab only hits 3 targets…MIND STAB was never good in the first place. It stopped you from moving. Mirror was never a good heal in the first place and giving 1 more sec to reflection will not change it. Mesmers are still a 1 build class for teams and now we have less reason to take them because of nerfs.

Dear Apollo;

It seems you have misread all the mesmer changes.

Portal can’t be used to exploit walls anymore.
i.e Put 2 portals on top of eachother pop onto the other side of a wall.
*The only thing changed for portals.

Mindstab is the sword 1hander auto attack. and this was a buff.

Torch was made useable, and actually my favorite weapon at the moment.
Minor touch ups for weapons which were just unpolished and bad but no real changes to offhand sword + Scepter.

All in all, please reread the patch notes or a consult a mesmer near you

just wanted to add the abundance of stability mixed with strong healing on 2 proffesions is what is limiting build choice on all proffesions in my opinion. I believe toning it down will open up a much greater build variety on all classes…..burst classes are not an issue they can be neutered pretty easy by anyone with a clue, However stability and healing on guard and ele bunker builds are not so easy to counter and is what is ruining real team diversity and the game.

And just want to add i dont have an issue with either of these classes but mainly because i am stuck with one burst condition build that is built to counter them …..i would like to mix my builds up and but feel its most effective.

NevirSayDie.6235:

These are some pretty odd expectations for balance changes. Warriors need changes, I’ll give you that, but I’m not sure where you’re going with any of the other professions:

—Thieves are sitting good as a mid-tier profession in tournaments and are still way too much of a noobstomp profession in hotjoins and WvW to consider buffing. They’re still used by good tournament teams as well.
—Rangers are still sitting great as a top-tier profession in tournaments and have at least two tournament-viable builds.
—Necro axe has needed a huge buff for a long time and this probably wasn’t enough.
—Players can’t obstruct other players, so portal is unaffected by that. I’m impressed that you expect to hit more than three targets with mind stab in PvP. Mesmers are still top-tier in tournaments.
—Guardians received some bugfixes.
—You seem to have trouble fighting engineers. They’re generally considered one of the worst three professions, although I’ll agree that they’re better than most people give them credit for. I haven’t seen them called OP since last August.
—Ele sustain was nerfed pretty directly. Eles will still be very good and will probably maintain their position as the widely-accepted “best” profession.

I will address this point by point starting by saying if all classes are not TOP-TIER they won’t be picked when you can beat everyone with the top-tier classes. There are only 8 classes and they ALL need to be top-tier. You take 2 or 3 classes out of top tier you have one comp to run if you want to win 95% of the time. All the good teams run 95% of the same stuff or they are the 1% that is exceptional with a lower tier class which it stupid to talk about because 99% of us are not that 1%. Don’t argue the percentages they are just for examples. If this game had ~100 classes then 2-3 or even 10-15 classes not being top-tier is ok but that is NOT the case. We have 8 and I have played the SHIZ out of those 8. I wouldn’t be as bored if I could use more than 1-2 builds viably.

Thief – read what I said in the last paragraph…make thief Top-tier and stop them from spamming 1 button. Most likely need a rework to accomplish this.

Ranger – Still not enough. With how limiting this game ALREADY is they need to expand it WAY more to keep people interested.

Necro – I barely touched the ave necro and I’m sure you are right but back to what they said they need work with all classes.

Mesmer – I never would hit 5 with it but the fact that they spent the time to nerf that and not work to make other classes better is beyond me. As far as obstruct what do you mean, because I am not obstructed by other players. In your setting you can check a box to walk through people. You must not have seen the new comp that consists of necro/engi/ranger/guard/ele of course they have to be good at the game but once you face that you will understand why I wouldn’t chose a mesmer over these.

Guardian – Allowing them to move while casting is not a bug fix its a rework of the skill because they didn’t like them stopping movement while casting staff 5 and they others were buffs. One of the only bug fixes was the staff heal which I didn’t player till now so I never ran into the bug.

Engi – I can tell you have not faced any decent engis in tournies. I can stream for you if you want to show you the good engis in the higher rated ques.

Ele – I wouldn’t say they are considered the best but the most diverse. They are great at tanking, dps, healing, CC, etc.

NevirSayDie.6235:

These are some pretty odd expectations for balance changes. Warriors need changes, I’ll give you that, but I’m not sure where you’re going with any of the other professions:

—Thieves are sitting good as a mid-tier profession in tournaments and are still way too much of a noobstomp profession in hotjoins and WvW to consider buffing. They’re still used by good tournament teams as well.
—Rangers are still sitting great as a top-tier profession in tournaments and have at least two tournament-viable builds.
—Necro axe has needed a huge buff for a long time and this probably wasn’t enough.
—Players can’t obstruct other players, so portal is unaffected by that. I’m impressed that you expect to hit more than three targets with mind stab in PvP. Mesmers are still top-tier in tournaments.
—Guardians received some bugfixes.
—You seem to have trouble fighting engineers. They’re generally considered one of the worst three professions, although I’ll agree that they’re better than most people give them credit for. I haven’t seen them called OP since last August.
—Ele sustain was nerfed pretty directly. Eles will still be very good and will probably maintain their position as the widely-accepted “best” profession.

For thieves, as far as I’m concerned (as a thief player), its not about being ineffective – its about being a boring, 1 trick pony which always plays the same exact way. Speccing for survivability is a losing proposition – you lose way more damage than you gain in survivability, and you end less effective in almost every single situation. This leads to a handful of burst specs that all play the exact same way – Burst, port away when your target immune/evade/blocks, pop back in and burst when its over (If it’s a sword/dagger ranger, don’t bother). Hope you don’t get AoE’d or targeted by another player.

Play a thief for a week and you’ll learn how to guess what they’re going to do just by glancing at their weapons. Even if its effective, its extremely boring. Sword and Pistol MH specs are entirely missing from the game because they’re quantifiabley worse than a Dagger MH burst spec. There’ll doubtless be a few posts from S/D and S/P thieves who point out how well the spec works for them, and great for them; it doesn’t change the fact that if they learned D/P or D/D they’d be a more effective team asset.

It’s all about spec diversity – there’s currently NONE, because if you want to run in TPvP, you need to be running your classes universally recognized BEST spec, because your opponents sure as kitten will be, and you’ll need yours to even compete.

This also applies to warriors (who from what I can tell need a buff) and rangers (who are currently very strong, but stuck running 1 of 2 specs to be considered so).

Darnis.4056:

Mesmer – Nerf Nerf Nerf…thats what I saw. Portal is now countered by just standing on it….THAT DOES NOT TAKE SKILL. Mind Stab only hits 3 targets…MIND STAB was never good in the first place. It stopped you from moving. Mirror was never a good heal in the first place and giving 1 more sec to reflection will not change it. Mesmers are still a 1 build class for teams and now we have less reason to take them because of nerfs.

Dear Apollo;

It seems you have misread all the mesmer changes.

Portal can’t be used to exploit walls anymore.
i.e Put 2 portals on top of eachother pop onto the other side of a wall.
*The only thing changed for portals.

Mindstab is the sword 1hander auto attack. and this was a buff.

Torch was made useable, and actually my favorite weapon at the moment.
Minor touch ups for weapons which were just unpolished and bad but no real changes to offhand sword + Scepter.

All in all, please reread the patch notes or a consult a mesmer near you

Holy crab cakes I love you. See the confusing thing which they should also change is the greatsword 3 is also called Mind stab. Yes this was a great buff and I will have to try to the torch. Throw me a build for it

In general though they need to spend more time with the notes and explain the specifics more. Also they need to not lose the patch notes like a 5 year old…

…my dag ate them… pathetic.

Die hard warriors trade hits with condi. The recent nerf to frost aura is practically a buff to us. And although slows are our nightmare too, I think it is fair that condi beats us. Don’t get me wrong, I want 20sec mending back but what can you do. I was surprised to see a war change at all. I nearly spit out my lunch when I read the patch notes and saw a warrior change that was not just a bug fix.

yea but it did nothing to help us at all. no one uses banners or condi on warrior if they are smart. I tried the condi build but it was sub par when compared to the condi builds alsobanners…no

Apollo.7389:

I will address this point by point starting by saying if all classes are not TOP-TIER they won’t be picked when you can beat everyone with the top-tier classes. There are only 8 classes and they ALL need to be top-tier. You take 2 or 3 classes out of top tier you have one comp to run if you want to win 95% of the time. All the good teams run 95% of the same stuff or they are the 1% that is exceptional with a lower tier class which it stupid to talk about because 99% of us are not that 1%. Don’t argue the percentages they are just for examples. If this game had ~100 classes then 2-3 or even 10-15 classes not being top-tier is ok but that is NOT the case. We have 8 and I have played the SHIZ out of those 8. I wouldn’t be as bored if I could use more than 1-2 builds viably.

Thief – read what I said in the last paragraph…make thief Top-tier and stop them from spamming 1 button. Most likely need a rework to accomplish this.

Ranger – Still not enough. With how limiting this game ALREADY is they need to expand it WAY more to keep people interested.

Necro – I barely touched the ave necro and I’m sure you are right but back to what they said they need work with all classes.

Mesmer – I never would hit 5 with it but the fact that they spent the time to nerf that and not work to make other classes better is beyond me. As far as obstruct what do you mean, because I am not obstructed by other players. In your setting you can check a box to walk through people. You must not have seen the new comp that consists of necro/engi/ranger/guard/ele of course they have to be good at the game but once you face that you will understand why I wouldn’t chose a mesmer over these.

Guardian – Allowing them to move while casting is not a bug fix its a rework of the skill because they didn’t like them stopping movement while casting staff 5 and they others were buffs. One of the only bug fixes was the staff heal which I didn’t player till now so I never ran into the bug.

Engi – I can tell you have not faced any decent engis in tournies. I can stream for you if you want to show you the good engis in the higher rated ques.

Ele – I wouldn’t say they are considered the best but the most diverse. They are great at tanking, dps, healing, CC, etc.

Fair enough. I was speaking from a strict balance perspective—i.e. rangers have 2 great builds so they’re “top-tier.” Certainly, it would be much better if all professions had 6 really great builds. But again, I was only referring to balance. I also agree thieves need more interesting and varied gameplay, but again, I was referring only to balance.

Which top engies would you like me to see? I’ve never crossed over to EU so I’ve never played against Teldo, but I believe I’ve at least seen most other top engies. They mostly agree that HGH/nades condi is a better build than 100nades, though. Also, I agree with you that they are better than the 7th best profession, but it seems you find them clearly the strongest profession. I’ve never met anyone who thinks that, so I was wondering why.

I’ll agree with you about build diversity, but I don’t think this was supposed to be a big build diversity patch.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/1467369

NevirSayDie.6235:

Apollo.7389:

I will address this point by point starting by saying if all classes are not TOP-TIER they won’t be picked when you can beat everyone with the top-tier classes. There are only 8 classes and they ALL need to be top-tier. You take 2 or 3 classes out of top tier you have one comp to run if you want to win 95% of the time. All the good teams run 95% of the same stuff or they are the 1% that is exceptional with a lower tier class which it stupid to talk about because 99% of us are not that 1%. Don’t argue the percentages they are just for examples. If this game had ~100 classes then 2-3 or even 10-15 classes not being top-tier is ok but that is NOT the case. We have 8 and I have played the SHIZ out of those 8. I wouldn’t be as bored if I could use more than 1-2 builds viably.

Thief – read what I said in the last paragraph…make thief Top-tier and stop them from spamming 1 button. Most likely need a rework to accomplish this.

Ranger – Still not enough. With how limiting this game ALREADY is they need to expand it WAY more to keep people interested.

Necro – I barely touched the ave necro and I’m sure you are right but back to what they said they need work with all classes.

Mesmer – I never would hit 5 with it but the fact that they spent the time to nerf that and not work to make other classes better is beyond me. As far as obstruct what do you mean, because I am not obstructed by other players. In your setting you can check a box to walk through people. You must not have seen the new comp that consists of necro/engi/ranger/guard/ele of course they have to be good at the game but once you face that you will understand why I wouldn’t chose a mesmer over these.

Guardian – Allowing them to move while casting is not a bug fix its a rework of the skill because they didn’t like them stopping movement while casting staff 5 and they others were buffs. One of the only bug fixes was the staff heal which I didn’t player till now so I never ran into the bug.

Engi – I can tell you have not faced any decent engis in tournies. I can stream for you if you want to show you the good engis in the higher rated ques.

Ele – I wouldn’t say they are considered the best but the most diverse. They are great at tanking, dps, healing, CC, etc.

Fair enough. I was speaking from a strict balance perspective—i.e. rangers have 2 great builds so they’re “top-tier.” Certainly, it would be much better if all professions had 6 really great builds. But again, I was only referring to balance. I also agree thieves need more interesting and varied gameplay, but again, I was referring only to balance.

Which top engies would you like me to see? I’ve never crossed over to EU so I’ve never played against Teldo, but I believe I’ve at least seen most other top engies. They mostly agree that HGH/nades condi is a better build than 100nades, though. Also, I agree with you that they are better than the 7th best profession, but it seems you find them clearly the strongest profession. I’ve never met anyone who thinks that, so I was wondering why.

I’ll agree with you about build diversity, but I don’t think this was supposed to be a big build diversity patch.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/sPvP-Class-Tier-List/1467369

I would suggest not to read that piece of garbage. There are way too man variables to ever say one class is higher or lower tier without including what map its on, what comp you are running., etc. Right now the strongest comp I have seen is Engi, ele, neco, ranger, guardian. Condi and AOE are way too strong. They said they would fix the OP AOEs but they didnt touch them.

Good engi…i won’t say so I don’t offend anyone. just trust me you will know when you see them.

I think in some circumstances I can now solo a bunker ele (condi necro) after this patch. Before I couldnt.

All games have cookie cutter builds. with like a 5-10 preference points. It will always happen. no matter what they do. One build will always be better then another. for the most part…. before i get trolled.

Lordrosicky.5813:

I think in some circumstances I can now solo a bunker ele (condi necro) after this patch. Before I couldnt.

If he is a true bunker ele then he sucks or you are pro or he messed up. No offense but they can removed the MOST condi out of everyone

Aldizi.5671:

All games have cookie cutter builds. with like a 5-10 preference points. It will always happen. no matter what they do. One build will always be better then another. for the most part…. before i get trolled.

True to an extent.

Apollo.7389:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I think in some circumstances I can now solo a bunker ele (condi necro) after this patch. Before I couldnt.

If he is a true bunker ele then he sucks or you are pro or he messed up. No offense but they can removed the MOST condi out of everyone

Corrupt boon I expect is why. Even so they are slighlty more killable for sure.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Apollo.7389:

Lordrosicky.5813:

I think in some circumstances I can now solo a bunker ele (condi necro) after this patch. Before I couldnt.

If he is a true bunker ele then he sucks or you are pro or he messed up. No offense but they can removed the MOST condi out of everyone

Corrupt boon I expect is why. Even so they are slighlty more killable for sure.

Then they just clear the condi and reapply the boons

There was a recent balancing patch?

Apollo.7389:

I would suggest not to read that piece of garbage. There are way too man variables to ever say one class is higher or lower tier without including what map its on, what comp you are running., etc. Right now the strongest comp I have seen is Engi, ele, neco, ranger, guardian. Condi and AOE are way too strong. They said they would fix the OP AOEs but they didnt touch them.

Good engi…i won’t say so I don’t offend anyone. just trust me you will know when you see them.

Okay, I understand. I agree that there are a lot of variables when it comes to how strong each profession is overall. You seem to have your own list, though, so I didn’t think you’d mind if I referenced a list put together by other players. I’ve just never met anyone with your opinion so I was wondering if there was anyone else who thought the same way.

NevirSayDie.6235:

Apollo.7389:

I would suggest not to read that piece of garbage. There are way too man variables to ever say one class is higher or lower tier without including what map its on, what comp you are running., etc. Right now the strongest comp I have seen is Engi, ele, neco, ranger, guardian. Condi and AOE are way too strong. They said they would fix the OP AOEs but they didnt touch them.

Good engi…i won’t say so I don’t offend anyone. just trust me you will know when you see them.

Okay, I understand. I agree that there are a lot of variables when it comes to how strong each profession is overall. You seem to have your own list, though, so I didn’t think you’d mind if I referenced a list put together by other players. I’ve just never met anyone with your opinion so I was wondering if there was anyone else who thought the same way.

Ty for being so understanding and nice about it. I also understand that if a list comes out and it looks good it might be great. While I don’t agree with the list there is some truth to the fact that Ele is top tier. I am just saying don’t put all your beliefs in one post by one guy. There are a lot of people that agree with me and there are also people that agree with that other post but there are also people in between. My suggestion is to play what you like…but be aware that you will most likely come across some build that demolishes and you might need to switch builds/comps/classes accordingly. There is a meta for a reason and the meta is ever changing the more people dissect this game and the more patches they drop.

I reali don’t know other classes. But in my opinion, i reali dun think engi is OP at all. 100nade burst is not nerfed in this patch as such. But this build itself is a “viable” build instead of a “OP” build. the burst itself can only 1 shot down most classes with low health and thoughness e.g. burst ele. Also, the two barrage sometimes bugged and not fully landed on the target, hence, cant burst down enemies. The build itself have only 1 condi removal, minimal healing and only 1 stun break, i.e. not much survivability. So, if you miss the burst, you are pretty much doomed.
Alot of the trait in engi reali need some work and the grandmaster trait is just not attractive enough.

ensoriki.5789:

Balance isn’t pvp exclusive.
Every area in this game professions are struggling to have more builds.
They need to get on this.

Well, they’ve been studiously ignoring player arguments since BWE1, I wouldn’t get your hopes up. I think the best we can hope for is the abysmal sPVP participations rates precipitate a change in the members of the design team.

I agree with apollo when he says the HGH build is too strong. I can successfully 1v1 all classes with a good record, I have amazing AOE, good survivability (good enough, we depend on our range) and by FAR the most condi damage of any class in the game.

Seriously guys. It’s pretty kittenign ridiculous. I’ve never seen engi as strong as it is now. We have one of the greatest diversity of viable builds in the entire game, some of them are even OP as kitten in my opinion.

So how do you fix it? Well kitten. That’s more complicated than I care to write about

mjharrison.3209:

ensoriki.5789:

Balance isn’t pvp exclusive.
Every area in this game professions are struggling to have more builds.
They need to get on this.

Well, they’ve been studiously ignoring player arguments since BWE1, I wouldn’t get your hopes up. I think the best we can hope for is the abysmal sPVP participations rates precipitate a change in the members of the design team.

I wish they wouldn’t because this game has so much potential.