Guild Wars 2

People who play condi builds, why do you insist on making this game not fun for the rest of us? Why is every build I play against condi?
Could we just have seperate game modes, where one is the normal default one, and the other is called “cheese condi” and those condi thiefs and burn guards can go have their fun in that mode. I literally took 120k condi damage on my warrior one time. This is 6x my hp bar. All in condi damage.
I tried out a few condi classes, and it is just so lame and cheesy. Condi thief is just perma evading and kittenting out condis. Can’t even get hit. How is this a thing? Tried condi warrior and won 1v3’s in my first few games.

I’ve played dota for 5 years and in tons of different patches, with 110+ heroes, things have been overpowered, but nothing even comes close to the kitten that is condi in gw2. I bet I could make it to legendary playing stupid condi kitten, but hey, it makes me feel like a s/cumbag.

condi remove … cc/burst and you counter a condi thief …1 player with the right build is enough!

you have weak/no condi remove, your cc/burst dont hit a condi thief, he counter you.

thief can play condi/power = balance… 50/50

i have big trouble vs counter …. condi is new at thief .. pls let him play condi or power .. or nerf all condis .. thats epic fail.

perma evade .. perma stealth i see that different, nothing is perma in gw2 .. pls … thats stupid…

You have probably a 20k hp bar. You took 120k condi damage in the time it took to kill you. Meaning, you mitigated or survived roughly 84% of the condi damage before you died.

Then you come on forums to complain that condition damage is ridiculous based on a misunderstanding of the statistic breakdown of your death.

You think condi warrior is overtuned? That’s a discussion worth having. Annoyed at evade spamming thieves? Forum can help you understand how to counter them.

But starting off with the “I took 120k damage” isn’t helpful because it includes a lot of damage that actually didn’t kill you.

Its very difficult to justify a mechanic that mid combat with 0 interaction can tic for 5k per second, while being completely defensive.

They can bomb you, go defensive and burn something like 80%+ your hp. That is a bit much.

It’s not zero interaction. All the interaction happened when they activated their skills and you don’t avoid them.

Not sure what you mean by completely defensible either. If they aren’t doing anything they should be visible and attackable.

personal impression or real condi meta?
Yes you practicall have 1-2 condi oponents and even non condi classes will hit with some conditions but this does not mean condi dominates. It just feels like they are everywhere. I am constantly hit by condies but they often don´t kill me. Necromancres, thiefs, mesmers and warriors are often condi so look at the oposing team composition and then you can estimate how many are condi. When i see necro, mesmer, thief, warrior and guard i change my build to anti condi ….

What if told you that there are magical skills called Condi Cleanses to mitigate Condi damage quite effectively if you are hit with them, or Blocks and Evades that stop Condis from being applied in the first place?

Condis don’t magically appear on players, here is cause and effect that makes them appear on the Status bar, and there are skills to get rid of them.

saerni.2584:

But starting off with the “I took 120k damage” isn’t helpful because it includes a lot of damage that actually didn’t kill you.

Leave it to online forum users to ignore the whole post, take half a sentence out of context and make a whole post explaining why that half sentence is wrong.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/ranger/Vanilla-Ranger-build-too-much-cleanse/first#post6721197

OP, may i introduce you to another forum poster. he plays condi thief & can’t kill core ranger. maybe you two could form an understanding?
it seems destined to be somehow

like. you two seem like two sides of a coin. so cute. one can’t kill with condi, & the other can’t help but be killed by condi. it seems like, you could bisect & stitch yourselves into something rather impressive/

=====

on a serious note, my darling dear. you have both brawlers recovery & zerker stance in your build. you also have the option of mending (15sec cd is love), Cleansing Ire, & condi clear sigils.

you should be embarrassed. complaining about burn guards. for shame. you are playing a winning matchup vs condi builds, burn guards even more so.

burn guard is a joke with the amount of cleanses warrior has. the matchup is so heavily in your favour you should actually not be able to lose it on equal skill. ergo: you are being outplayed. everytime you lose to the burn guard 1v1 it’s a fight you should have won. you have every single tool you can ever need to beat him. practice.

Yeah and another forum post says Power Ranger has too much cleanse…

How about you guys meet up and have a beer?

Edit: kitten, beat me to it. Is this why I always eat Eviscerates?

saerni.2584:

It’s not zero interaction. All the interaction happened when they activated their skills and you don’t avoid them.

Not sure what you mean by completely defensible either. If they are don’t doing anything they should be visible and attackable.

If we are to assume that the whole offensive interaction happened at the moment 0 and the damage is instead spread over the condition duration ending at say the moment 10.

Then that means that from moment 1 to moment 10 the condition bomber can play defensive.

In contrast, power classes have to play offensive from moment 0 to moment 10 and if they play defensive, then they are not doing damage.

Its too big of an advantage and it shows.

Not to mention that even if both classes where forced to keep up the offensive pressure, condi easily does comparable if not higher damage. I for one know that being fully offensive with the zerker condi build i used to tic as high as 8k per second, power cant reach 8k per second damage, nowhere near close to it.

choovanski.5462:

like. you two seem like two sides of a coin. so cute. one can’t kill with condi, & the other can’t help but be killed by condi. it seems like, you could bisect & stitch yourselves into something rather impressive/

=====

on a serious note, my darling dear. you have both brawlers recovery & zerker stance in your build. you also have the option of mending (15sec cd is love), Cleansing Ire, & condi clear sigils.

you should be embarrassed. complaining about burn guards. for shame. you are playing a winning matchup vs condi builds, burn guards even more so.

burn guard is a joke with the amount of cleanses warrior has. the matchup is so heavily in your favour you should actually not be able to lose it on equal skill. ergo: you are being outplayed. everytime you lose to the burn guard 1v1 it’s a fight you should have won. you have every single tool you can ever need to beat him. practice.

2 things:

I never said condi kills me.
I never said I play a warrior in pvp apart from those few test games.

“Ergo” your entire post is irrelevant.

Condition damage in this game is way out of line and people know it, so it doesn’t come as a surprise that all these condi cheesers come crawling out of their corners desperately trying to defend it.

If you want me to address your entire post:

People who play condi builds, why do you insist on making this game not fun for the rest of us? Why is every build I play against condi?

• Why do you insist on excluding players with a different playstyle entirely? You seem to be the one making the game less fun by not playing the game and playing forum warrior telling others to get out of your sandbox (despite that sandbox never belonging to you in the first place).

Could we just have seperate game modes, where one is the normal default one, and the other is called “cheese condi” and those condi thiefs and burn guards can go have their fun in that mode. I literally took 120k condi damage on my warrior one time. This is 6x my hp bar. All in condi damage.

• See my comments above. Your complaint is misleading and your argument boils down to insults and nothing of substance. You died.

I tried out a few condi classes, and it is just so lame and cheesy. Condi thief is just perma evading and kittenting out condis. Can’t even get hit. How is this a thing? Tried condi warrior and won 1v3’s in my first few games.

• Which classes did you play? Again, as I suggested you could ask how to fight a evade spam thief (also in power-staff format).
• Your claims of 1v3 on condi warrior seem anecdotal at best. Go on a three game winning streak, so what? In what division? Against what classes? Did you win?

I’ve played dota for 5 years and in tons of different patches, with 110+ heroes, things have been overpowered, but nothing even comes close to the kitten that is condi in gw2. I bet I could make it to legendary playing stupid condi kitten, but hey, it makes me feel like a s/cumbag.

• Frankly, I don’t care what other games you play or for how long. Different games are different. Maybe dota is more balanced? I don’t really care. I care about how gw2 is balanced.
• You spend a lot of time insulting 1) other players, 2) the games balance and 3) the games design. What you don’t do is offer more than a few unsupported opinions. Can you make it to legendary? I don’t know and neither do you. The rest is more “condi is trash” insults again based on your own personal opinion.

If you’d like to have a substantive discussion that doesn’t involve unsupported assertions of personal opinion I’m all ears.

Anyone playing condi should hop on a power thief and try to fight their own condi class (watch someone reply “but thief isnt supposed to 1v1 uehueheuh reeeee”). Before the game is over they will have had a mental breakdown, before deleting their cheese class out of shame. They will go to their local church and confess to their sins, promising to never do it again.

Solution to condi: lower damage significantly to match power, but remove cleanses and nerf resistance. Or at the very least vastly reduce the amount of cleanses going around. Some professions can cleanse so much that condi builds become totally useless around them. With so many cleanses, condi builds need to have OP damage in order to be effective. With fewer cleanses, we can get away with lower condi damage. The builds could remain more defensive, but they would also kill slower. And at the same time, they would hardly have more counters than power builds. If you don’t avoid a condi bomb, you take all the damage you would take if you didn’t avoid a power burst.

Also, splitting cleanses would be great. Most cleanses would just work on non damage ones, but then the occasional one would work for damage ones.

Power builds: kills fast, but is squishy
Condi builds: kills slow, but is defensive

Another thing I’d like to see is all condis being removed when you rally. When you rally against a power build, you can dodge to avoid the damage, but against a condi one, you must pop resistance or cleanse everything because you rally with so little hp and condis can still tick for a combined 5k+ damage.

Crackers.9628:

Anyone playing condi should hop on a power thief and try to fight their own condi class (watch someone reply “but thief isnt supposed to 1v1 uehueheuh reeeee”). Before the game is over they will have had a mental breakdown, before deleting their cheese class out of shame. They will go to their local church and confess to their sins, promising to never do it again.

Invalid. A person who doesn’t play a build regularly loses in terms of muscle memory. For a thief muscle memory and reaction time is crucial to being good mechanically. I’ve fought terrible D/D condi players. OP? They died.

Even if both a platinum player and a bronze play the same strong “meta” build the platinum player will dominate. That’s because the platinum player knows how to play the build and knows it’s weaknesses.

Not everyone plays D/D dodge thief for condi btw. There are builds across multiple weapons that play differently and have different strengths and weaknesses.

@Zin

You get it. More cleanse just makes it a burst vs burst meta. I’m glad people are catching on to the paradox of buff cleanse = more buffs for condi.

Also, before you removed condi on down. Now that doesn’t happen to speed up kills but I’d support removing all conditions on rally. That makes more sense to balance the rally mechanic for power and condition users.

Apolo.5942:

Its very difficult to justify a mechanic that mid combat with 0 interaction can tic for 5k per second, while being completely defensive.

They can bomb you, go defensive and burn something like 80%+ your hp. That is a bit much.

Thay makes bad player look good, gw2 its is a game torward gimmiks and help bad players, if u haver a decent player not on meta burst build he will die probably strugle for longer againt a bad player thats is playing meta build.

The gap between build need to be reduced, ATM is play for damage Creep or gtfo.
And where everything cleaves,burst,aoe.. results on a mess of gameplay.

When ANet makes this game required skill Over weapon damage and spam, like gw1 required most gamers Will stop joking about ANet devs and its players..

Crackers.9628:

2 things:

I never said condi kills me.
I never said I play a warrior in pvp apart from those few test games.

“Ergo” your entire post is irrelevant.

Condition damage in this game is way out of line and people know it, so it doesn’t come as a surprise that all these condi cheesers come crawling out of their corners desperately trying to defend it.

ah, young spring onion. you provide a most perplexing post, with a nice little insult for spice. i like that. very cheeky.

young child. if condi does not kill you, then why are you writing a QQ post about condi damage. seems perplexing doesn’t it?
even more so when we see you calling condi damage ‘way out of line’. what a strange thing to call a damage type that isn’t killing you. if you aren’t dying to it, then pray tell- how is it so OP?

methinks there is something afoot here. i sense a snake in the boot. there’s something else going on here. ah, could it being you are spreading tales of fancy to cover up your wounded ego? could be, might be. but, could it be you have no reasoning skills? ah, it could be, it might very be. mmmm, but even could it be you just want nerfs & will say anything to get them? ah, it seems it could be, it may be.

ah, well if you are feeling charitable. young spring onion, maybe you could reveal it to me?

mmm, & our last line. where you implicitly call me a condi cheeser. very confident, also very wrong. i stick to menders on my engineer, & power and greatsword for my warrior or guardian these days. so mayhap recycle that egg dripping down your face, could make for a nice snack?

=====

to the others, engaged in constructive discussion. i do have something to add.

please remember condi skills & cleanses in pvp are balanced around a team setting. it’s why we have builds like power shiro in the meta. because while some builds may be a free kill against condi builds, with a support backing them up they can become juggernauts.

having one – two players playing support is game changing when one has to fight condi builds. a support tempest combined with purge gyro, wings, & other group condi clears that common non support builds have is a tremendous amount of condi clear. it can oft make condi builds completely neutered in a teamfight setting. it’s why condi chrono prefers to 1v1, & it’s main utility in a teamfight is cc not a condi spike.

so, yes condi damage is dang high right now. but so is power damage. 10k+ hits are no strangers these days. heck, the new thief can hit for 30k+ with a single skill. damage is too high currently. but anets poor balancing decisions have snowballed leaving both damage & sustain far too overtuned. i feel the only way to return to a good equilibrium would be to have a full across the board rebalance. which ah, knowing anet, i doubt will ever happen.

dont try and speak the truth on this Forum, will never work

Zintrothen.1056:

Solution to condi: lower damage significantly to match power, but remove cleanses and nerf resistance. Or at the very least vastly reduce the amount of cleanses going around. Some professions can cleanse so much that condi builds become totally useless around them. With so many cleanses, condi builds need to have OP damage in order to be effective. With fewer cleanses, we can get away with lower condi damage. The builds could remain more defensive, but they would also kill slower. And at the same time, they would hardly have more counters than power builds. If you don’t avoid a condi bomb, you take all the damage you would take if you didn’t avoid a power burst.

Also, splitting cleanses would be great. Most cleanses would just work on non damage ones, but then the occasional one would work for damage ones.

Power builds: kills fast, but is squishy
Condi builds: kills slow, but is defensive

Another thing I’d like to see is all condis being removed when you rally. When you rally against a power build, you can dodge to avoid the damage, but against a condi one, you must pop resistance or cleanse everything because you rally with so little hp and condis can still tick for a combined 5k+ damage.

This is the solution. Plz arenanet read this post.

Lol… What ANet ONLY needs to do is make players need to invest more stats if they want damagw, and the same for condi… If u want damage u get squishier, if u buot defense player looses damage output .

ANet need to change the formulas wich classes use the stats.. problem is, classes aint op if cant solo a pve raid, so must BE balanced for pvp as well….

A good thing would be a new redesign of the stats, to clean the mess, with complete new values.

Condi is broken. That’s all

This is what we get for such class design instead of keeping classes in a specified outline, now everyone has access to everything but not everything is good as something else.
Just roll thief or mesmer, find yourself a duo partner who plays thief or mesmer and carry games. PvP balance and matchmaking is a dice toss anyway.

Back in time, condi builds had more defensive stats than power, granting better chances to them to kill you while bunkering.
Now there’s not such things like that, if compared to the actual Power amulets.

If you want to be a full condi you go viper, if you want to be full power you go berserker. In both the case the first burst will kill you mercyless, at the same way.
Even the difference between Carrio and Marauder is not so much. 2-3k of HP in the actual power meta is nothing. There’s different Power builds that can AA for 2-3k/hit (thief and warrior, for example), then have that extra hp don’t mean be more or less defensive than the others.
Who survive don’t do it with Statistics but with Active Defences like block/evade/invulnerability/dodge/more…
The necromancer is the easiest class to kill in the game still if have up to 20k more HP than any other class then statistics don’t mean anything in this meta.
(there’s no more Real Bunker builds for a reason)

Make a easy comparison:
A Power burst combo of 4 seconds can kill you in That 4 seconds.
A Condition burst combo of 4 seconds can kill you in 10 seconds.

The difference is that Power hit you heavly and you eat all the damage in the same moment, while Condition kill you slowly.

In the end is Only a L2P issue.

-Learn the skills that inflict you more conditions and evade/dodge/block/blind////// it, that will grant a lot of troubles to your enemy.
-There’s strong condi damage skill as the same way there’s strong power damage skills, them all need to be activated at the right time and are able to inflict you huge damage.
-You can defend yourself from both Power and Condition damage, only in Different Ways. Make a good balanced build or learn how to fight wile weaker to condition damage than to power damage (different classes are weaker or stronger against condition or power)
-Different classes/builds spam conditions that don’t inflict damage and you don’t die because of them
-Different builds use tons of conditions like weakness, vulnerability or immobilize, with few damaging conditions as side-effect of they’re skills/traits. Only because you see a lot of conditions that don’t mean that you died for condition damage.
-Condition builds are frequently weaker in 1v1 than power builds (only few classes are stronger with condi than with power)
-Elementalists spam condi clean all the time while in water, stay near one of them and you don’t have to be worried about conditions anymore.
-keep a condi clean skill ready for the enemy condi burst. if you see different conditions on you don’t active immediatly the condi clean, wayt until the stacks are at the “top” and then clean all the enemy damage at once (like wait for the enemy burst combo to active a block, the strategy is the same).
-Block/Blind/Evade/Dodge/Mobility, everything that work on Power also work on Condition. The enemy Have to Hit you to inflict conditions, if the enemy can’t he will be unable to keep condition damage up and his damage over time wil be low. If you stop an enemy hit you also stop all the damage that conditions would inflict to you.
-Higher is your Rank Lower is the amount of Condi Builds you find. Guess why?

There’s more things but I’m really tired to write all the time the same things.

Power work in a way and Condition in another, you Have to learn to fight them both.
If you don’t want to learn there’s nothing we can tell you because you’ll return here all the time screaming that conditions are OP.

Learn to Play.

So….is there a point when someone can come in and say (condis are not OP, the ways/frequency they can be applies are. Until those are addressed, just adapt and move on.)?

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

So….is there a point when someone can come in and say (condis are not OP, the ways/frequency they can be applies are. Until those are addressed, just adapt and move on.)?

Anet built up the condi-cleanse hybrid system in a way which most would criticize for various reasons. People often wish power and condition builds would kill more slowly, making the game more about making several effective plays than one good play.

Anet has moved towards a burst meta. I think this was informed by anti-bunker bias and wanting to reward players for landing their attacks. Defenses are still substantial but even highly resistant classes will be spiked down without playing actively.

Conditions were also buffed to be more like power. Cleanse was the drug that everyone needed to take—whereas before they could get away with far less. People reacted poorly to this shift both because they hated burst and because they still felt the pressure after cleansing.

At this point though a lot of players are still stuck in a childish rant against conditions. They don’t understand how conditions are applied. They don’t understand why conditions are hitting so much harder than they used to. They don’t understand why everyone can’t just use builds that apply damage only one time. Because, lets face it, cleanse is not a normal system.

I’d reduce condition durations and damage. I’d then get rid of cleanse entirely. Everything. Then we can play the DoT vs DPS game.

That’s why I don’t like these posts which are effectively “remove conditions from the game, they are op and condi users suck and actually it’s all skillless and they are scum I hate those cancer users.” Because those aren’t real balancing solutions. Those are the petulant complaints of people who want to blame conditions for a meta (burst gameplay) they asked for.

choovanski.5462:

Crackers.9628:

2 things:

I never said condi kills me.
I never said I play a warrior in pvp apart from those few test games.

“Ergo” your entire post is irrelevant.

Condition damage in this game is way out of line and people know it, so it doesn’t come as a surprise that all these condi cheesers come crawling out of their corners desperately trying to defend it.

ah, young spring onion. you provide a most perplexing post, with a nice little insult for spice. i like that. very cheeky.

young child. if condi does not kill you, then why are you writing a QQ post about condi damage. seems perplexing doesn’t it?
even more so when we see you calling condi damage ‘way out of line’. what a strange thing to call a damage type that isn’t killing you. if you aren’t dying to it, then pray tell- how is it so OP?

methinks there is something afoot here. i sense a snake in the boot. there’s something else going on here. ah, could it being you are spreading tales of fancy to cover up your wounded ego? could be, might be. but, could it be you have no reasoning skills? ah, it could be, it might very be. mmmm, but even could it be you just want nerfs & will say anything to get them? ah, it seems it could be, it may be.

ah, well if you are feeling charitable. young spring onion, maybe you could reveal it to me?

Because you’re so nice, I will indulge you. Condi doesn’t kill me because whenever I encounter a condi build, I disengage. Is it so hard to understand something can be OP even when the person complaining about it is not dying to it? Whenever a legitimate complaint on this forum is done, all you can come up with is the usual git gud response. Not dying to it? Can’t possibly be op, because avoiding it like the plague doesn’t exist.

It’s cheese, it’s cheap, it’s abusing a broken system and it sucks the fun out of pvp. But I guess when something is easy and cheese a lot of people will be attracted to it, and whenever they are called out for it, the qq starts.

Maybe I can offer a different view point. In thai boxing there is a move where one repeatedly kicks the opponents thigh. At some point, if you take too many hits, you just can’t stand up straight anymore. It’s allowed, but it’s cheap and generally frowned upon. That’s what condi is in this game. It’s the easy short cut.

There is too much cc in this game. I can’t cleanse everything especially when some classes have aoe cc.

It’s too much. There is nothing more frustrating than not being able to move for what feels like 7-10 seconds. There is nothing more annoying than being pushed and pulled around like a doll.
It just takes away all the fun if I’m just looking at my character melting away while I can’t do anything.

Crackers.9628:

I literally took 120k condi damage on my warrior one time. This is 6x my hp bar. All in condi damage

So what you’re saying is that the poor condi player basically had to kill you six times before you actually died?

Aktium.9506:

Crackers.9628:

I literally took 120k condi damage on my warrior one time. This is 6x my hp bar. All in condi damage

So what you’re saying is that the poor condi player basically had to kill you six times before you actually died?

no he never dies to condi remember lol

You can’t compare Dota 2 with this game. DotA 2 balances differently (and imo, better). DotA 2 heroes have very specific advantages and disadvantages that lead to a somewhat rock, paper, scissors game with 1v1s but offer very interesting combinations on team based play. In GW2, you try to fashion your build to have almost all the advantages in combat: damage, sustain, mobility, etc. It just so happens that condi right now has the most advantages and so… more condi builds.

saerni.2584:

@Zin

You get it. More cleanse just makes it a burst vs burst meta. I’m glad people are catching on to the paradox of buff cleanse = more buffs for condi.

Also, before you removed condi on down. Now that doesn’t happen to speed up kills but I’d support removing all conditions on rally. That makes more sense to balance the rally mechanic for power and condition users.

But wouldn’t “slowing down” kills for condi and making them more bunkerish just allow for disengage… you know the old wah wah the theif can run away, the engi has too much sustain complaints of yester year

Best way to beat Conditions is to become a condi transferring epidemic necro, make em eat thier own turds ten fold.

They call me a masochist when I cling to my Engi’s condi build instead of Scrapper Mender.

Crackers.9628:

Maybe I can offer a different view point. In thai boxing there is a move where one repeatedly kicks the opponents thigh. At some point, if you take too many hits, you just can’t stand up straight anymore. It’s allowed, but it’s cheap and generally frowned upon. That’s what condi is in this game. It’s the easy short cut.

I can’t quote everyone I’d like to quote, so this fits best.

First off, I’ve made condi burst builds that can stack 4-5k ticks worth of burning within seconds. Most players will drop before they even know what hit em, especially if they are otherwise engaged which is what you want with this builds. Condition builds shouldn’t be able to burst. If we are to differentiate them, lets.

Power is much easier to mitigate if for no other reason than you can walk away from the fight/kite/block/evade/etc. Power needs to keep constant pressure to be effective whereas conditions, once applied, mean gg if you run out of cancel-I-win buttons.

This game is too bursty and in fact if you were to have a 20% increase in sustain across the board coupled with a 15% reduction to power damage and 30% to condition damage, you’d barely notice the difference other than fighting a few specific high sustain builds in 1v1 situations. The reason being that in spvp fights are often decided by one guy getting dropped and the rest of that team being outnumbered. Whoever dies first gives the opposite team a huge advantage, even more so thanks to the oh so pointless downstate mechanic, and it leads to a rampage of sorts leading to very one sided matches. 1v1 balance in this game may be superb, but 5v5 it’s terrible and the burstyness + cc + conditions damage ridiculous.

Stability is silly as a mechanic, as many professions/weapon sets cannot be played in pvp because of it. Instead, defensives rather than cc become preferable. Also, without stability you can get knocked around like a ragdoll. I’d change stability to only active for X number of seconds after you’d been cced, so only to prevent chain cc which, again, in group fights it’s very real and very annoying.

Conditions are cheap, without a doubt, and it’s the very reason I don’t play condition builds: cover or wait for cleanses, gg. That is its measure of skill. With power, you have to do everything right comparatively speaking to get the kill. With conditions, it’s just a matter of time before they run out of cleanses; so don’t use everything if you can’t cover your main conditions and stay alive just a few seconds, because that is all it takes.

Splitting them into conditions and afflictions (non-damaging conditions) and having cleanses remove afflictions as well, perhaps just one, would do wonders for this game in terms of it being a game of skill.

I remember a post not too long ago, from a top 10 player, asking his build be nerfed because it was ridiculous: being able to place so many cover conditions the other player could do literally nothing but die, and there’s still players who’ll argue conditions are warranted, needed, require skill, etc. Lame!

Savvy.3258:

First off, I’ve made condi burst builds that can stack 4-5k ticks worth of burning within seconds. Most players will drop before they even know what hit em, especially if they are otherwise engaged which is what you want with this builds. Condition builds shouldn’t be able to burst. If we are to differentiate them, lets.

This says it all. In fact, if condi runners were not being shamelessly defending their opness they would acknowledge the blatant and simple fact that everywhere where condition is viable, its always worth it to run it over power.

Warrior. check
Thief. check
Mesmer. check
Necromancer. check
Elementalist. Check
kitten even Dragon hunters run burning builds.

If Thief Warrior and Dragon hunter dont run power, which are the quintessential power icon classes, who the kitten is supposed to run power?.

Apolo.5942:

Savvy.3258:

First off, I’ve made condi burst builds that can stack 4-5k ticks worth of burning within seconds. Most players will drop before they even know what hit em, especially if they are otherwise engaged which is what you want with this builds. Condition builds shouldn’t be able to burst. If we are to differentiate them, lets.

This says it all. In fact, if condi runners were not being shamelessly defending their opness they would acknowledge the blatant and simple fact that everywhere where condition is viable, its always worth it to run it over power.

Warrior. check
Thief. check
Mesmer. check
Necromancer. check
Elementalist. Check
kitten even Dragon hunters run burning builds.

If Thief Warrior and Dragon hunter dont run power, which are the quintessential power icon classes, who the kitten is supposed to run power?.

Lol. Power thief is considered better and most run power. Necro and Mesmer are condi but not always. Warrior it’s about 50/50. Elementalist mostly power. Most DH are still power.

Like more than 50% are running power but condi needs to be nerfed? Lol.

Zintrothen.1056:

Solution to condi: lower damage significantly to match power, but remove cleanses and nerf resistance. Or at the very least vastly reduce the amount of cleanses going around. Some professions can cleanse so much that condi builds become totally useless around them. With so many cleanses, condi builds need to have OP damage in order to be effective. With fewer cleanses, we can get away with lower condi damage. The builds could remain more defensive, but they would also kill slower. And at the same time, they would hardly have more counters than power builds. If you don’t avoid a condi bomb, you take all the damage you would take if you didn’t avoid a power burst.

Also, splitting cleanses would be great. Most cleanses would just work on non damage ones, but then the occasional one would work for damage ones.

Power builds: kills fast, but is squishy
Condi builds: kills slow, but is defensive

Another thing I’d like to see is all condis being removed when you rally. When you rally against a power build, you can dodge to avoid the damage, but against a condi one, you must pop resistance or cleanse everything because you rally with so little hp and condis can still tick for a combined 5k+ damage.

Yeppers. The shorter the window between cleanses , which more cleanses lead to , the more important it is for conditions to be loaded on in a burst for when that window between cleanses is open.

The condi player will then bait the person he faces into uses cleanses too early and save that big burst for when the cleanses used. It then becomes “I can not keep up with the condition applications” when the condition player is working with that he has got.

saerni.2584:

Apolo.5942:

Savvy.3258:

First off, I’ve made condi burst builds that can stack 4-5k ticks worth of burning within seconds. Most players will drop before they even know what hit em, especially if they are otherwise engaged which is what you want with this builds. Condition builds shouldn’t be able to burst. If we are to differentiate them, lets.

This says it all. In fact, if condi runners were not being shamelessly defending their opness they would acknowledge the blatant and simple fact that everywhere where condition is viable, its always worth it to run it over power.

Warrior. check
Thief. check
Mesmer. check
Necromancer. check
Elementalist. Check
kitten even Dragon hunters run burning builds.

If Thief Warrior and Dragon hunter dont run power, which are the quintessential power icon classes, who the kitten is supposed to run power?.

Lol. Power thief is considered better and most run power. Necro and Mesmer are condi but not always. Warrior it’s about 50/50. Elementalist mostly power. Most DH are still power.

Like more than 50% are running power but condi needs to be nerfed? Lol.

Keep telling your self that.

Reality on the other hand shows that the only classes running power are Scraper and SOME Dragon Hunters. Thats it.

Apolo.5942:

saerni.2584:

Apolo.5942:

Savvy.3258:

First off, I’ve made condi burst builds that can stack 4-5k ticks worth of burning within seconds. Most players will drop before they even know what hit em, especially if they are otherwise engaged which is what you want with this builds. Condition builds shouldn’t be able to burst. If we are to differentiate them, lets.

This says it all. In fact, if condi runners were not being shamelessly defending their opness they would acknowledge the blatant and simple fact that everywhere where condition is viable, its always worth it to run it over power.

Warrior. check
Thief. check
Mesmer. check
Necromancer. check
Elementalist. Check
kitten even Dragon hunters run burning builds.

If Thief Warrior and Dragon hunter dont run power, which are the quintessential power icon classes, who the kitten is supposed to run power?.

Lol. Power thief is considered better and most run power. Necro and Mesmer are condi but not always. Warrior it’s about 50/50. Elementalist mostly power. Most DH are still power.

Like more than 50% are running power but condi needs to be nerfed? Lol.

Keep telling your self that.

Reality on the other hand shows that the only classes running power are Scraper and SOME Dragon Hunters. Thats it.

if 5v5 required 5 man parties i think there would be very low amount of condi builds if any. but the way it is we some some here and there and definetly there is more power builds in the meta than condi, dont embarrasses yourself by disputing that.

An old argument for having strong conditions was that they had ramp up time so they needed to be strong. That is a myth now, there is no ramp up time there’s only burst. People crying “bring cleanse” don’t understand that Condition bursts are easily and frequently spammable. Cleanses and healing cannot keep up. “Good job, you cleansed my initial condition bomb. That’s okay I’m still spamming and stacking them on you afterwards while your ancient cleanse is still on recharge.”

Anyone who played the Elite Spec weekend in PvP knows how much worse it’s going to get on the horizon. Insane burning stacks would melt you in what felt like an instant. I’m sure some things are going to be nerfed but right now that’s the only barometer of the future we have so I used it (hesitantly) as an example.

Milan.9035:

Apolo.5942:

saerni.2584:

Apolo.5942:

Savvy.3258:

First off, I’ve made condi burst builds that can stack 4-5k ticks worth of burning within seconds. Most players will drop before they even know what hit em, especially if they are otherwise engaged which is what you want with this builds. Condition builds shouldn’t be able to burst. If we are to differentiate them, lets.

This says it all. In fact, if condi runners were not being shamelessly defending their opness they would acknowledge the blatant and simple fact that everywhere where condition is viable, its always worth it to run it over power.

Warrior. check
Thief. check
Mesmer. check
Necromancer. check
Elementalist. Check
kitten even Dragon hunters run burning builds.

If Thief Warrior and Dragon hunter dont run power, which are the quintessential power icon classes, who the kitten is supposed to run power?.

Lol. Power thief is considered better and most run power. Necro and Mesmer are condi but not always. Warrior it’s about 50/50. Elementalist mostly power. Most DH are still power.

Like more than 50% are running power but condi needs to be nerfed? Lol.

Keep telling your self that.

Reality on the other hand shows that the only classes running power are Scraper and SOME Dragon Hunters. Thats it.

if 5v5 required 5 man parties i think there would be very low amount of condi builds if any. but the way it is we some some here and there and definetly there is more power builds in the meta than condi, dont embarrasses yourself by disputing that.

Lol, come back when you are out of bronze

Apolo.5942:

Milan.9035:

Apolo.5942:

saerni.2584:

Apolo.5942:

Savvy.3258:

First off, I’ve made condi burst builds that can stack 4-5k ticks worth of burning within seconds. Most players will drop before they even know what hit em, especially if they are otherwise engaged which is what you want with this builds. Condition builds shouldn’t be able to burst. If we are to differentiate them, lets.

This says it all. In fact, if condi runners were not being shamelessly defending their opness they would acknowledge the blatant and simple fact that everywhere where condition is viable, its always worth it to run it over power.

Warrior. check
Thief. check
Mesmer. check
Necromancer. check
Elementalist. Check
kitten even Dragon hunters run burning builds.

If Thief Warrior and Dragon hunter dont run power, which are the quintessential power icon classes, who the kitten is supposed to run power?.

Lol. Power thief is considered better and most run power. Necro and Mesmer are condi but not always. Warrior it’s about 50/50. Elementalist mostly power. Most DH are still power.

Like more than 50% are running power but condi needs to be nerfed? Lol.

Keep telling your self that.

Reality on the other hand shows that the only classes running power are Scraper and SOME Dragon Hunters. Thats it.

if 5v5 required 5 man parties i think there would be very low amount of condi builds if any. but the way it is we some some here and there and definetly there is more power builds in the meta than condi, dont embarrasses yourself by disputing that.

Lol, come back when you are out of bronze

I’m only in Gold but I agree, power is more effective with team play. Atleast with premade teams, you all know your roles, where you’re going and what you’re doing. The builds get interesting and start interlocking with each other for some good synergy between abilities and traits, the most common being a a resourceful way for all allies to cleanse each others conditions passively and covering each others weak spots.

I actually think it’s a fresh new perspective on conditions rather than just saying “OP NERF OMG”. Heard all the other arguments, but this perspective is relative in so many ways the more you think about it. Such a simple change, changed so much. It redefined classes as a whole as to what and how they should play as a solo/duo player rather than team player which can naturally favour condition builds.

when i take too much condi damage i just get off the point and break LoS, recover and get back in the fight.

i love it when ppl bring up condi cleanse… they dont understand there is really not enough cleanses in the game to counter some builds out there. The condi meta makes everyone change their build just because of a few design flaws.

the real counter vs condi is not just cleansing, it’kittenting them w your 10k damage skill twice so they die in seconds.

like honestly. you don’t need to sustain condis eternally. just long enough to spit out your overtuned burst. burst meta is so out of control it’s just wait for a few CDs then 1 shot. securing kills is terribly easy.

condi issue exists in the minds of players who have never psychologically been able to move themselves out of the WoW mindset. they believe condis should be supplementary, and not an alternative primary damage type. unfortunately for them anet has decided they are going to be an alternative primary damage type. so these nerfs that all y’all who refuse to adapt demand, won’t come. you won’t get them. you’ll just get farmed again and again untill you L2P.

so like that’s it’s dude. those are your options.
. get farmed and cry on forums
. L2P

choovanski.5462:

the real counter vs condi is not just cleansing, it’kittenting them w your 10k damage skill twice so they die in seconds.

like honestly. you don’t need to sustain condis eternally. just long enough to spit out your overtuned burst. burst meta is so out of control it’s just wait for a few CDs then 1 shot. securing kills is terribly easy.

condi issue exists in the minds of players who have never psychologically been able to move themselves out of the WoW mindset. they believe condis should be supplementary, and not an alternative primary damage type. unfortunately for them anet has decided they are going to be an alternative primary damage type. so these nerfs that all y’all who refuse to adapt demand, won’t come. you won’t get them. you’ll just get farmed again and again untill you L2P.

so like that’s it’s dude. those are your options.
. get farmed and cry on forums
. L2P

Dude… WoW mindset? You played this exact same game before the condition stacking buff didn’t you? When burns only did 700 at most and bleeds 100 at most? Only ever stacking duration, not intensifying like we have now with 12k a tick on 1 condition.

(not disagreeing with the rest)

sephiroth.4217:

choovanski.5462:

the real counter vs condi is not just cleansing, it’kittenting them w your 10k damage skill twice so they die in seconds.

like honestly. you don’t need to sustain condis eternally. just long enough to spit out your overtuned burst. burst meta is so out of control it’s just wait for a few CDs then 1 shot. securing kills is terribly easy.

condi issue exists in the minds of players who have never psychologically been able to move themselves out of the WoW mindset. they believe condis should be supplementary, and not an alternative primary damage type. unfortunately for them anet has decided they are going to be an alternative primary damage type. so these nerfs that all y’all who refuse to adapt demand, won’t come. you won’t get them. you’ll just get farmed again and again untill you L2P.

so like that’s it’s dude. those are your options.
. get farmed and cry on forums
. L2P

Dude… WoW mindset? You played this exact same game before the condition stacking buff didn’t you? When burns only did 700 at most and bleeds 100 at most? Only ever stacking duration, not intensifying like we have now with 12k a tick on 1 condition.

(not disagreeing with the rest)

the main goal of the condition stacking buff was to solve the issue of overriding conditions. so multiple condi players can effectively focus one target without overriding each others damage.

condi damage has always been able to kill. why else would builds like condi p/s engi, & the countless wvw condi builds have existed?

yes, condi damage has increased. yes it can be argued it’s too much. but you can’t argue that in a vacuum. power damage has seen just as much of a spike. both damage types are far too high imo.

its the ‘WoW mentality’ that has players tunnel visioning on condi damage. they qq about burn stacks & not 10k crits (we have 35k crits coming w PoF lol). it’s a joke really. i am unable to think of them as anything but scrubs.