I will have a biased opinion on this because I can’t speak from the perspective of classes other than Druid, but here’s what I think:
Mesmer is not OP at all when it comes to how it performs in teamfights and 1v1s because, like condi warrior or staff theif, Mesmer is one of the classes that tests your ability to dodge. If you have slow reactions and can’t dodge, you will get wrecked but if you know animations and what to dodge, it’s a won 1v1. How all classes should be in my opinion. Dodge the shatters of the Mesmer and especially the moa and you win. If you can’t dodge these with a very high level of consistency, then sorry to say, but you deserve to lose. That is what I always told myself when trying to improve and it applies to everyone else as well. Of course if you play something like necro with limited dodges, this will be hard but like I said, I can only speak from my own experience.
What Mesmer does that keeps it in the meta over other classes is the ability to portal. There is no counter to this when facing on organised team other that run another Mesmer. No other class can teleport and entire team across a map instantly like Mesmer. THAT is what makes it good, but again, not enough to make it OP because it does not over perform in other areas.
in regards to moa. my warrior brings his mace above his head in a slow animation easy to dodge. moa is basically a insta death and animation is a little purple ball at their hands like literally everything else they do. dodging moa isnt skill. its pure luck.
That is just not true. As someone who duels good mesmers regularly in games and in private arenas (and by good I mean pro players or people good enough to be pro league, not just people a bit better than the rest), moa is a very obvious animation that gives you plenty of time to dodge. I can say that moa is much easier to dodge than skull grinder simply because of the length of the animation. If you truly can’t see the moa animation, just look for the continuum split on the ground, wait about half a second, then dodge. Dodging a moa or anything for that matter is only luck if you are random dodging and if you are doing that, you deserve to lose the fight. There are certain things that someone can do (or fail to do) that makes it so they really shouldn’t (don’t deserve to as I say) win the 1v1 and not dodging moa is one of those and so is random dodging. Other things like this are not dodging the revenant elites, not dodging chill to the bone and tanking more than 1-2 skull grinders.
I would suggest you learn the animation of moa or at least be able to predict it by watching for continuum split, it really will help you get better. Insisting that it is down to luck it what will limit your progress as a player.
Seriously, it’s a good thing mesmers have CS or they would only successfully hit a decent opponent with Moa about 10% if the time. With CS it’s more like 25% on the second attempt.
Usually, you have to bait your opponent into Moa or stun them first. It has a very obvious and long animation, can be blocked or evaded, and only hits opponents in front of the mesmer. Plus it has a 180 sec cool down.
Thing is, mesm is nice and balanced, and then you have portal/CS moa and mesm becomes broken.
Apparently portal made mesmer broken many years ago.
No, it’s simply considered abnormal when chrono gained more 1v1 ability (whether by bunker or condi) since HoT, thus allowing mesmer to hold a point while keeping a portal on other. Before that power mesmer is basically a team oriented build that is easily shut down by a thief, so much that many ESL mesmer players except Helseth (eg. Supcutie) played thief instead.
Even when it comes down to using portal, it generally goes unnoticed unless someone played it as “entertaining” as Helseth, which normally gained much more positive review among spectators than this “OMG OP nerf” thread we get this day.
in regards to moa. my warrior brings his mace above his head in a slow animation easy to dodge. moa is basically a insta death and animation is a little purple ball at their hands like literally everything else they do. dodging moa isnt skill. its pure luck.
Either I’m missing something here or you’re ignoring the glaring overhead tell.
Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.
Thing is, mesm is nice and balanced, and then you have portal/CS moa and mesm becomes broken.
Apparently portal made mesmer broken many years ago.
No, it’s simply considered abnormal when chrono gained more 1v1 ability (whether by bunker or condi) since HoT, thus allowing mesmer to hold a point while keeping a portal on other. Before that power mesmer is basically a team oriented build that is easily shut down by a thief, so much that many ESL mesmer players except Helseth (eg. Supcutie) played thief instead.
Even when it comes down to using portal, it generally goes unnoticed unless someone played it as “entertaining” as Helseth, which normally gained much more positive review among spectators than this “OMG OP nerf” thread we get this day.
Dont you say, fam. If you have a mesm build balanced by itself and then u add portal/cs moa, it becomes broken. If you have an underperforming build but it can offer portal/cs moa, then its balanced.
I play a condi thief main (so hard kittened by condi damage), and imo the only thing that SEEMS op is the clone/shatter tracking. Dodging or stealthing and getting tracked for a shatter still seems a bit kitteny. Same as with channeled skills.
Checked all “confusion + ua”, “non-dodge shatters” , “daredevil’s escapist absolution doesn’t work on illusion’s attacks” bugs with friend in spvp (each “bug” was checked multiple times):
1) Confusion + ua bug – doesn’t exist. Inflicted confusion (confusion was inflicted in several ways, UA with/without Enchanted daggers, etc ), then checked damage dealt after only 1 UA. Then did same thing, but with another skill (any other then UA). Damage dealt same: 1 UA = 1 any other skill (+usual conf ticks over time). HP % left equals in all tests (except Enchanted daggers was used ofc = more health left in this casa, still no multiple active confusion procs during UA)
2) Non “evadable” shatters bug – don’t exist. When illusion came close (on shatter distance), friend dodged (towards clone, if u dodge away when illusion haven’t reached shatter distance – most chances u don’t know how shatters works) = no damage dealt
3) Escapist absolution + illusions = seems doesn’t exist. Inflicted ~12sec confusion, summoned phantasmal mage, mage attacked friend, friend dodged phantasm attack = confusion is cleared. I din’t attack (stowed weapon). Din’t check with clones, but I suppose that result wouldd be the same.
Checked all “confusion + ua”, “non-dodge shatters” , “daredevil’s escapist absolution doesn’t work on illusion’s attacks” bugs with friend in spvp (each “bug” was checked multiple times):
1) Confusion + ua bug – doesn’t exist. Inflicted confusion (confusion was inflicted in several ways, UA with/without Enchanted daggers, etc ), then checked damage dealt after only 1 UA. Then did same thing, but with another skill (any other then UA). Damage dealt same: 1 UA = 1 any other skill (+usual conf ticks over time). HP % left equals in all tests (except Enchanted daggers was used ofc = more health left in this casa, still no multiple active confusion procs during UA)
2) Non “evadable” shatters bug – don’t exist. When illusion came close (on shatter distance), friend dodged (towards clone, if u dodge away when illusion haven’t reached shatter distance – most chances u don’t know how shatters works) = no damage dealt
3) Escapist absolution + illusions = seems doesn’t exist. Inflicted ~12sec confusion, summoned phantasmal mage, mage attacked friend, friend dodged phantasm attack = confusion is cleared. I din’t attack (stowed weapon). Din’t check with clones, but I suppose that result wouldd be the same.
source for every single claim you just made please. then ill believe you.
I tested the UA bug it is either fixed or intermittent, I had a Guildie hop on his Thief and trait for Confusion on steal and only that trait so no other damage would interfere with results, what I was able to determine was that Confusion now only procs for the Skill activation and no more additional times, and two the Confusion proc and Ticks didn’t show up in the combat log. You can test it out yourself if you would like but as of right now it seems to working as intended.
source for every single claim you just made please. then ill believe you.
Got any sources for any of the falsifications that you’ve personally spouted in this topic?
you mean the 1 post i made saying moa is impossible to dodge with skill just luck? go watch a video of moa being casted. you get about .1 of a second with a signet above their head and moaed instantly. mesmer love to defend it because its cheese as all hell.
you mean the 1 post i made saying moa is impossible to dodge with skill just luck? go watch a video of moa being casted. you get about .1 of a second with a signet above their head and moaed instantly. mesmer love to defend it because its cheese as all hell.
More like you love to lie through your teeth. Read the following:
Signet of Humility: The signet’s casting effect will now occur at the beginning of the ability. This ability can no longer target enemies behind the mesmer who casts it.
Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.
As a relatively new player I cannot judge yet if condi mes is op or not; but since the topic is somewhat about countering it I have to ask – how do one sees/evades their shatter? Phantasms/clones approach on different time and shatter upon contact, I just cannot manage to dodge that stuff properly as a scrapper sadly :C Best thing I can do is blocking with hammer4 but its cd way bigger than the next mesmer burst. I’m reading that scrapper should counter mesmer but still cannot manage to do that. So if you wise guys can share any tips I’d really appreciate that =) cheers.
As a relatively new player I cannot judge yet if condi mes is op or not; but since the topic is somewhat about countering it I have to ask – how do one sees/evades their shatter? Phantasms/clones approach on different time and shatter upon contact, I just cannot manage to dodge that stuff properly as a scrapper sadly :C Best thing I can do is blocking with hammer4 but its cd way bigger than the next mesmer burst. I’m reading that scrapper should counter mesmer but still cannot manage to do that. So if you wise guys can share any tips I’d really appreciate that =) cheers.
Currently the best way to play against condition mesmer is not to dodge the clone shatters.
Your No.1 goal should be to evade the shield 4 phantasm spawn. Once that is evaded, you will limit both mesmer’s offensive and defensive capability at the same time. Mesmer’s clone train generation relies a lot on chronophantasm and persistence of memory. They will have less iavenger to shatter and longer shield 4 block cool down.
As a scrapper, you also have good cleave to clear clones. Remember clones die to 1-2 autoattack. Also, if you want easy 1v1 victory vs mesmer, you can opt for mender’s amulet. You will out sustain a mesmer.
I think condition mesmer is in by no means OP. Against meta specs, mesmer loses 1v1 to druid and scrapper and gets completely shut down by dragontrappers.
As a scrapper, you also have good cleave to clear clones. Remember clones die to 1-2 autoattack. Also, if you want easy 1v1 victory vs mesmer, you can opt for mender’s amulet. You will out sustain a mesmer.
I think condition mesmer is in by no means OP. Against meta specs, mesmer loses 1v1 to druid and scrapper and gets completely shut down by dragontrappers.
I agree on the dragontrappers but from my experience the scrapper will have to s.gyro to leverage some time for his cooldowns. You are usually good for the first couple of shatter waves with blocks/evades and clear on Scrapper. But eventually the mesmer will wear you down as his condi application cd’s cycle a lot faster than your defensive cd’s and condi removal cd’s.
The condi pressure uptime from mirror images, signet of illusion continuum split on top of the chronophantasma/illusionary reversion/persistence of memory is just a lot better than what you can leverage on scrapper for defense i find.
You’ve got shock shield on a 20 second timer, i run elixir C with alchemical tinctures for extra clear and e.gun for the super elixir clear. Turret clears 2 on drop and if you pick up rather than blasting the water you are on a 15 second cycle.
Does the jump trick at the end of chrono’s shield 4’s channel still work to spawn the shield clone even if the player dodged? Or did they patch that?
As a relatively new player I cannot judge yet if condi mes is op or not; but since the topic is somewhat about countering it I have to ask – how do one sees/evades their shatter? Phantasms/clones approach on different time and shatter upon contact, I just cannot manage to dodge that stuff properly as a scrapper sadly :C Best thing I can do is blocking with hammer4 but its cd way bigger than the next mesmer burst. I’m reading that scrapper should counter mesmer but still cannot manage to do that. So if you wise guys can share any tips I’d really appreciate that =) cheers.
Do you have your utilities, especially your heal skill, hotkeyed? You’ll need to use your heal skills while moving, you can’t stop and stand there while using it. Mash your heal skill hotkey then pick your turret right up and keep running. Make sure to pick it up, as it recharges faster if you do.
To beat any mes you need to keep up offensive pressure, including using your autoattack when your other weapon skills are on CD. This is true for power mes and especially true for condi mes. You will have to dodge or block probably 2 shatters, your heal skill and purge gyro can easily handle the rest of their condi application. Your block is an excellent offensive tool because of the vulnerability application, so ideally use it to block a shatter when you’re in melee range of the mesmer.
It’s ok to use your heal skill to remove damaging conditions even if you haven’t lost any health yet, the sooner you use it the sooner it will be recharged for the next use. Also, remember that hammer 3 is an evade, so you can use that to approach the mesmer and also evade a shatter at the same time. You’ll lose if you don’t force them to use their defensive CDs early on.
How can so many people not see that tactical supremacy in almost all situations that Condi Mesmer has ? It can only get shutdown by thief imho. It also wrecks DH, I have no idea what you guys are talking about. Condi Mesmer was my first spvp profession and I stopped because it’s too easy and overpowered. If you can’t see why condi mesmer is insanely broken, please remember to go easy on the psychedelic drugs, they are not helping you.
As a scrapper, you also have good cleave to clear clones. Remember clones die to 1-2 autoattack. Also, if you want easy 1v1 victory vs mesmer, you can opt for mender’s amulet. You will out sustain a mesmer.
I think condition mesmer is in by no means OP. Against meta specs, mesmer loses 1v1 to druid and scrapper and gets completely shut down by dragontrappers.
I agree on the dragontrappers but from my experience the scrapper will have to s.gyro to leverage some time for his cooldowns. You are usually good for the first couple of shatter waves with blocks/evades and clear on Scrapper. But eventually the mesmer will wear you down as his condi application cd’s cycle a lot faster than your defensive cd’s and condi removal cd’s.
The condi pressure uptime from mirror images, signet of illusion continuum split on top of the chronophantasma/illusionary reversion/persistence of memory is just a lot better than what you can leverage on scrapper for defense i find.
You’ve got shock shield on a 20 second timer, i run elixir C with alchemical tinctures for extra clear and e.gun for the super elixir clear. Turret clears 2 on drop and if you pick up rather than blasting the water you are on a 15 second cycle.
Does the jump trick at the end of chrono’s shield 4’s channel still work to spawn the shield clone even if the player dodged? Or did they patch that?
Shield 4 jump trick has been patched. Now if you jump after shield 4 block, no phantasm will spawn.
I don’t mind any of the condi’s except confusion. Way too strong and gets applied/stacked way too much. What does Anet want me to do? It’s hurting me when I don’t activate a skill and I’m doubly hurting when I activate a skill… meanwhile it’s just being repeatedly stacked on me. Bring GW1’s confusion to GW2 or some variant of it:
“Target foe’s attacks may damage any character in range, including the target.”
At least I’d be able to run away, dodge, or do nothing and not have to take any damage for doing so.
. Same with interrupt.