Guild Wars 2

Really Turned Off PvP every game is no skill condi bunkers with AI , i prefer the skill based power meta , no running around spamming condi and hoping the AI kills for you , Who agrees ?

Condi isn’t “skillless” it just isn’t instant. Power does damage instantly and condi over time. Condi risks a cleanse and doing no damage even after landing an attack.

And anet is not removing a fundamental game mechanic because you don’t understand it. Sorry.

saerni.2584:

Condi isn’t “skillless” it just isn’t instant. Power does damage instantly and condi over time. Condi risks a cleanse and doing no damage even after landing an attack.

And anet is not removing a fundamental game mechanic because you don’t understand it. Sorry.

HAHAHAHAHAHAA, rrright. Burn guards say hello.

I would also like to point out that what you posted applied to game state of like 2-3 years ago and not true anymore due to all the power creep. Since when procs and passives based damage application was considered “skillful” ?

You are talking about specific builds and not condi as a whole. I’m all for individual balance where adjustments need to be made.

Honestly I don’t mind condi builds, but when almost every player is running it it kills pvp for me. Personally I prefer power over condi for big bursts but when a necromancer bombs you up with conditions you have 2 seconds to clear everything just for all of it to be reapplied instantly. Sad how condi bunker is the new meta because most of it is from passives. Don’t want this to sound like I’m just complaining but condition damage exceeds power damage at the moment. Conditions should not be able to do the same if not more damage in the same time as power damage

What are you running duke? And is it just condi necro or are other classes at issue?

Decrypter.1785:

Really Turned Off PvP every game is no skill condi bunkers with AI , i prefer the skill based power meta , no running around spamming condi and hoping the AI kills for you , Who agrees ?

Condi AI…..?

The only condi build with any kind of npc is condi ranger and condi Chrono. Condi Ranger is glass and typically a free kill. Condi Chrono is actually good and it’s the onlny condi build in the current meta.

Of the 9 classes, only 1 of them runs condi as the meta level.

dukenukem.9072:

Honestly I don’t mind condi builds, but when almost every player is running it it kills pvp for me. Personally I prefer power over condi for big bursts but when a necromancer bombs you up with conditions you have 2 seconds to clear everything just for all of it to be reapplied instantly. Sad how condi bunker is the new meta because most of it is from passives. Don’t want this to sound like I’m just complaining but condition damage exceeds power damage at the moment. Conditions should not be able to do the same if not more damage in the same time as power damage

1)Necro is not a bunker
2)Necro condi bomb come from transfers, you can’t spam those
3)Reapplication is not instant, necro can only realistically reapply bleeding on short notice, the other condis require having certain cooldowns available.
4)Power builds are for every class except Mesmer, tankier than condi builds are.

Actually the only good condi build is Chronomancer.
The other good condi build is the Berserker condi, but almost all now prefer to go with direct damage because have more burst and don’t fear clean, send back or Resistance, that will totally make your damage fall to 0 (expecially for Resistance, that totally negate all your condition damage or effects).

Necromancer is not a bunker class, is the easier class to kill in this game, and if you die against one in 1v1 is totally a L2P issue, basicly no one lose against a necromancer in this meta.
If a necromancer bursted you you had really to be bad and eat all his (only) dps combo (Rs5+Rs4, that need 4 seconds of execution). The only way it can burst you is transfering conditions with plague signet or staff 4 (or dagger offhand 4, but no one use it) and it’s not totally a class strength, only a class mechanic barely useful in a meta where only chronomancers run condi and there’s really few damaging conditions to transfer to “bomb” someone.

About guardian burn, if you run out of condi clean and a guardian do his full burst you will die, but if you have at last a single condi clean you will just clean all his damage and then he’s unable to inflict any good damage for more than 20 seconds. You’ll be able to close the fight in lesser than 20 seconds, expecially if the guardian use the Pure guardian burn build, that use the core class or you know how to fight a dragonhunter.

Condition damage is not weak but there’s so much condi clean/transfer/immunity that barely no one want to risk to do 0 damage only to run condition.
Also, the condition amulets are no more all that tanky as before compared to the actual direct damage amulets, making them not so much tanky (and some times squishy compared to a direct damage class).

Condi ranger and condi engi are just without defence, glass cannons that inflict a huge burst but then can’t inflict all that damage and, more important, are so easy to kill that no one want to use these builds.

Cry about condition damage in a meta where there’s always fewer condition builds is a joke.

Condis wouldn’t be so bad if they weren’t stacked up so easily by one single player. If skills apply 3 stacks of burning with a single hit, then it should last only a few seconds at most. But then you stack up condition duration and it ends up lasting forever, forcing cleanses with one, single skill. No skill required but your reward is great. This is why people hate conditions. They can be as rewarding as power damage but require less effort to apply, unless they take time to stack up. And that’s where the problem happens. Skills apply many conditions and many stacks of conditions, and professions like condi Reaper frequently apply them because so many skills apply many conditions and many stacks of conditions. You just can’t block or evade all of them. You also can’t block or evade all power attacks either though, but if you’re hit by a power attack, that’s it. You take damage and you can heal through it. If you’re hit by a condition attack, you have to cleanse it or heal it and then continue to take damage because they last so long. And if you choose to cleanse, you might cleanse every condition except the most powerful one. Simply put, power damage is easier to deal with. Conditions are tough. So actually, it’s not that condition and power specs don’t require different level of skills (though I could probably go into why they do), but that conditions are just harder to deal with, and I would argue that the more powerful both conditions and power damage become, the rate of difficulty at which conditions are to deal with, grows faster than the rate of difficulty at which power damage is to deal with. If both power and condition damage were brought down, the balance would be better, and both would be more equally easier to deal with.

Cleanse isn’t about eliminating condition damage. It’s about reducing it.

Your comment about burning might be worth exploring though given it was supposed to last short durations with stacking and now is much longer duration with stacking. Is burn OP though…I’m not so sure.

Condi damage will get boosted over time, more traits more aoe more condi being stacked, the lightfields are a change so they can keep their mentality of players being carried by damage output being in phisical or condi.

saerni.2584:

Condi isn’t “skillless” it just isn’t instant. Power does damage instantly and condi over time. Condi risks a cleanse and doing no damage even after landing an attack.

And anet is not removing a fundamental game mechanic because you don’t understand it. Sorry.

Condi isnt skilless in gw1, but it is in gw2 at least how Anet made it work.
When mixed with the power creep to carry its players so they look good and efective it becomes to strong.

Conditions should had stayed as they were working on gw1, the Anet mistake was wanting conditions become hexes + conditios in one effect, one of the reasons it becomes far easiers to play with conditions then some other builds.

How it works in gw1 doesn’t matter to me to be honest. I also don’t see how “it’s not like gw1” is an explanation for how it is skillless.

saerni.2584:

What are you running duke? And is it just condi necro or are other classes at issue?

I’m running on rev right now (I know not the best class) but resistance just gets corrupted on mallyx so I switched to ventari and having some success with it. As for getting condi necromancer bombed I think a condi war on my team was attacking then the necromancer used the signet and or mark to transfer to me. The infinite dodge daredevil with conditions is just plain cheese

So do you think the transfer is OP? I know very little about Rev cleanse in general so I imagine moderate condi is a problem for Rev based on prior experience fighting Rev only (p/d condi boonstrip build).

I think perma evade is a problem that applies to power builds (like staff) as well as condi (d/d). I wouldn’t say condi is itself the isssue. Obviously they reduced some endurance regen from thief so anet seems to be moving towards limiting perma dodge anyways. But again that doesn’t make condi a problem just the evades.

saerni.2584:

So do you think the transfer is OP? I know very little about Rev cleanse in general so I imagine moderate condi is a problem for Rev based on prior experience fighting Rev only (p/d condi boonstrip build).

I think perma evade is a problem that applies to power builds (like staff) as well as condi (d/d). I wouldn’t say condi is itself the isssue. Obviously they reduced some endurance regen from thief so anet seems to be moving towards limiting perma dodge anyways. But again that doesn’t make condi a problem just the evades.

I think the problem is condition stacking. They should be capped much lower than what it is for PvE/wvw. Like burning capped at 3, bleeding at 5 etc. The amount of damage conditions do is insane compared to the damage over time they are intended to do. I don’t think the devs wanted conditions to hit as hard as power in such a small span of time

Those caps are way too low and ignore why they removed the caps that had been in place. Some singular skills apply 5 stacks of bleed. The original cap of 25 was removed because it was unfair to artificially cap multiple condi users but not multiple power users.

My build has, by way of example, the ability to stack about 17 bleeds at any given time. This isn’t a huge portion of my damage because bleed is a fairly low multiplier for condi damage unlike say burn. Two of me could stack up to 35 bleeds but if you cap that at 25 it is like each of me only stacked 12.5 bleeds. That cap makes my contribution to damage lower than if I was solo.

saerni.2584:

How it works in gw1 doesn’t matter to me to be honest. I also don’t see how “it’s not like gw1” is an explanation for how it is skillless.

Its all about the concept and principles of what works well and what exist but was designed to be broken by nature, they should ported what was working well from the combat scheme to gw2 and then improve the combat.

We had alot of interactions between skills and conditions, now we only have aplyers and removers and even that is awfully worked out. but so are other things in game, its like Anet wanted to avoid spend time balancing the skills yet the skills ended worse than before, was a bad design from start.

On Gw1 conditions were part of the normal gameplay and not something that players can hope to stack in expection to cut effort or even leech, for condi pressure would be needed a team spike, or a mesmer with epidemic or another way to spread condis, here that isnt even necessary and when it happens its more a condi nuke than a condi bomb.

It is not a inteligent combat scheme, it looks very ugly,a nd theres to much aoe stuff…..and i dont feel rewarded by the low effort high damage that is possible to achieve with some builds.

Ive managed to get 2x 10k burn ticks with my burn guard on a few players… and that is super dull not even clever gameplay, reason IT SHOULD matter to the players to play a decent pvp game like we had in gw1, as much gw1 had its problems… ANet should import some characteristics that were workign well at the end, would save them from future headaches or keep changing the same over and over and over.

dukenukem.9072:

saerni.2584:

So do you think the transfer is OP? I know very little about Rev cleanse in general so I imagine moderate condi is a problem for Rev based on prior experience fighting Rev only (p/d condi boonstrip build).

I think perma evade is a problem that applies to power builds (like staff) as well as condi (d/d). I wouldn’t say condi is itself the isssue. Obviously they reduced some endurance regen from thief so anet seems to be moving towards limiting perma dodge anyways. But again that doesn’t make condi a problem just the evades.

I think the problem is condition stacking. They should be capped much lower than what it is for PvE/wvw. Like burning capped at 3, bleeding at 5 etc. The amount of damage conditions do is insane compared to the damage over time they are intended to do. I don’t think the devs wanted conditions to hit as hard as power in such a small span of time

That is the worlds dumbest idea for pvp.You do know that would essencially kill any dot class in the game right? Its bad enough that necros get bursted down instantly by rangers and power warriors with insane burst and bursted down by every class in the game.Its bad enough trying to survive in pvp to see the fruits of our labor actually produce something(In this case a death) If you cap it at 5, then increase the damage to around 300-500 damage per bleed.Bleeds with 10-12 stacks which is what i usually can get in pvp does around 1200-1500 dmg, and it needs to do around the same damage or more to kill a person before they kill me, because if it doesn’t do that amount, then no condi class will be able to participate or even compete in pvp.