Guild Wars 2

Who’d win between the two from players of equal skill level? Just curious because there seems to be a lot of complaints about burn damage but I think confusion and torment is as bursty and even more nerve wrecking with stealth. I’d like to know from those who regularly play these 2 builds.

From my experience, countering the burn guard is far easier than the condi Mesmer. But if the two went head-on, which one will have the slight upper hand

I play a bit of condi but from necro (transfers) , engie and ele.

Depends on the players. In general condi mesmer should win.

If condi mesmer takes Inspiration (mender’s purity, restorative illusions, mantra heal…) and generosity sigils, then easy win.

Condi mesmer builds aren’t married to PU.

If only condi clear is the pledge and perhaps mantra of resolve, then… they will get burnt hard if they aren’t very careful and kite a lot.

TheGuy.3568:

Depends on the players. In general condi mesmer should win.

Actually it will entirely depend on the amount of condi removal the mesmer takes.
If they run the standard PU shatter we see in the ranked ques they don’t have any, OR have one on a that can be used twice on a 20s CD. Burn guards can apply near constant burning.
Assuming that both player’s are top tier skill wise. I would put the fight at a 55/45 leaning in the mesmer’s favor because of stealth.

Curunen.8729:

If condi mesmer takes Inspiration (mender’s purity, restorative illusions, mantra heal…) and generosity sigils, then easy win.

Condi mesmer builds aren’t married to PU.

If only condi clear is the pledge and perhaps mantra of resolve, then… they will get burnt hard if they aren’t very careful and kite a lot.

…..In the title though ( and the OP) he specifically asked about PU though … :I

Burn guard shines brightest +1’ing a team fight. Condi PU mesmer has the 1v1 advantage.

Solori.6025:

Curunen.8729:

If condi mesmer takes Inspiration (mender’s purity, restorative illusions, mantra heal…) and generosity sigils, then easy win.

Condi mesmer builds aren’t married to PU.

If only condi clear is the pledge and perhaps mantra of resolve, then… they will get burnt hard if they aren’t very careful and kite a lot.

…..In the title though ( and the OP) he specifically asked about PU though … :I

I missed that too. In that case PU could try but would likely lose. I have been playing inspiration condi shatter lately. My clearing is slightly faster than there application ( dodging, not getting caught going in and out of circle). Beating them isn’t that complex 1 v 1 but with PU I would imagine you just couldn’t clear fast enough.

I’m a bit rusty on mesmering and the last build I truly had fun with was the 4/4/0/0/6 gs/staff shatter.

I thought condi builds were tied to PU. If not, this gives the Mesmer a bit more diversity.

Burn guard
pro – higher overall condition damage from burn
pro – blinds
pro – medi heals
con – only one source of condition damage which can be countered w/ generosity
con – no diversity to build

Condi Mesmer
pro – stealth
pro – multiple condition damage sources which can’t be fully countered w/ generosity
pro – blinds
pro – greater build diversity

It seems like a toss up to me with mesmers having a slight advantage. I’d love to watch these 2 builds 1v1.

Edit: I removed PU from the title because I thought conditions and stealth goes hand-in-hand. Even after pvping for 3 years, goes to show that I still have much to learn.

Mesmer

Solori.6025:

Curunen.8729:

If condi mesmer takes Inspiration (mender’s purity, restorative illusions, mantra heal…) and generosity sigils, then easy win.

Condi mesmer builds aren’t married to PU.

If only condi clear is the pledge and perhaps mantra of resolve, then… they will get burnt hard if they aren’t very careful and kite a lot.

…..In the title though ( and the OP) he specifically asked about PU though … :I

I know but I felt like saying it anyway because too often it seems like people think all Condi mesmers have to use PU.

It is possible to play Chaos, Inspiration, Illusions and have both at the same time with Scepter/Torch + Staff. Very tough to kill in 1v1.

But if running standard rabid Duelling, Chaos, Illusions then I put my money on the burn guard, simply because the mesmer doesn’t have enough clears to make any mistake.

condi Mesmers beat burn guards 70% of the time 1v1 in dueling servers

Mesmer is better from my experience. too many condition applies.

Mesmer almost always because,
If the guard is winning the mesmer resets
If the mesmer is winning the guard just goes down.

As people have said, depends on what type of Condi Mesmer.

PU Condi Mesmer, Guardian will probably win. Inspiration Condi Mesmer (i.e. much less stealthy), Mesmer wins pretty easily.

Source: I play a lot of stealthless Inspiration Condi Mesmer.

In this case it’s not so much that Confusion/Torment wins over Burning, but the fact that Inspiration Mesmers are almost immune to condi builds that can only apply one condition with frequency.

i usually kill burn guards without condi removal (No insp) on carrion pu condi cancer mesmer…just saying, if you can dodge and wait for guard to blow contemplation and condispike him right after he’s basically done

@OP – bud, Mesmer will always have the upper-hand in ANY 1v1 situations.

Doesn’t matter if they are direct damage or condi dealers.

Doesn’t matter if they are going against burn guard, survival ranger, ele…

Well survival ranger may be close one. I’m tellin’ ya, dem pets got smartuur or at least more useful

Salamander.2504:

Burn guard shines brightest +1’ing a team fight. Condi PU mesmer has the 1v1 advantage.

+1 tyvm

Vapour.7348:

@OP – bud, Mesmer will always have the upper-hand in ANY 1v1 situations.

Doesn’t matter if they are direct damage or condi dealers.

Doesn’t matter if they are going against burn guard, survival ranger, ele…

Well survival ranger may be close one. I’m tellin’ ya, dem pets got smartuur or at least more useful

^ This

Condi mesmer doesn’t even need Generosity sigs to beat the condi Guard.

How the heck do guards make better +1 classes than mesmers?

if the mesmer has condi transfer, guard is dead

lighter.2708:

if the mesmer has condi transfer, guard is dead

I agree, Arcane Thievery is good against burn guards because you get to steal their boons also.

Saiyan.1704:

Vapour.7348:

@OP – bud, Mesmer will always have the upper-hand in ANY 1v1 situations.

Doesn’t matter if they are direct damage or condi dealers.

Doesn’t matter if they are going against burn guard, survival ranger, ele…

Well survival ranger may be close one. I’m tellin’ ya, dem pets got smartuur or at least more useful

^ This

Condi mesmer doesn’t even need Generosity sigs to beat the condi Guard.

How the heck do guards make better +1 classes than mesmers?

GS#3, sword#2, JI —>GS#2
Their map mobility to get to a fight quickly can be insane, but it relies on them taking a target to use sword#2 and JI to get around. A burn guard can get across the map much faster than the mesmer (their tp skills require a target but have a very low CD) and then land a 14k burst using JI+GS#2, which is usually enough to down a pre-engaged target. The guard can then rotate elsewhere if needed using the same technique.

Salamander.2504:

Saiyan.1704:

Vapour.7348:

@OP – bud, Mesmer will always have the upper-hand in ANY 1v1 situations.

Doesn’t matter if they are direct damage or condi dealers.

Doesn’t matter if they are going against burn guard, survival ranger, ele…

Well survival ranger may be close one. I’m tellin’ ya, dem pets got smartuur or at least more useful

^ This

Condi mesmer doesn’t even need Generosity sigs to beat the condi Guard.

How the heck do guards make better +1 classes than mesmers?

GS#3, sword#2, JI —>GS#2
Their map mobility to get to a fight quickly can be insane, but it relies on them taking a target to use sword#2 and JI to get around. A burn guard can get across the map much faster than the mesmer (their tp skills require a target but have a very low CD) and then land a 14k burst using JI+GS#2, which is usually enough to down a pre-engaged target. The guard can then rotate elsewhere if needed using the same technique.

The guard wont be able to because his JI will be on CD.

Mesmer can peel away and roam elsewhere 10x more easily than a Guard. Not to mention that Portal of his from across the map is 3x better than JI.

1 teleporting skill does not mean Guardian’s are better mobile classes than Mesmer… that’s ridiculous.

We are the slowest class in the game right now. Even slower than Necros! Do not confuse Initial Engagement with +1 roaming abilities… even then, the Mesmer’s shatter 1 shot bursts has us beat!

In my very limited experience, being a burn guard in spvp, I feel like the guild banks on people not knowing what they are going while 1v1 (which is a good amount of the playerbase btw)

The second you encounter a player who know what they are doing, burn guard loses its “op-ness” I actually feel burn guards are best in a team fight being kind of side dish support and spreading damage, making it easier for the higher alpha character to take people down.

Vs a Mesmer, and ive dealt with a lot trying to ninja points, its a toss up. The Mesmer either has a clue and its a really close fight (typically I lose) or they drop super fast.

I have to say that I feel like the guards down state skills might be the worst in game, ive had a lot of “ties” vs a Mesmer, and its incredibly rare that a tie goes to me due to down state skills being less than awesome.

Basically if you can cleanse my burns after I pop all my cooldown skills theres not a whole lot I can do, damage is super slow and based almost entirely on stacking burns that don’t get cleansed.

I would say the only advantage a guard would have is his ability to stack burns then “wait it out” better than a Mesmer, with skills that add tankyness (even invulnerability) however they have long cooldowns and one cleanse can ruin it.

burn guard is really OP if you don’t know what a burn guard or condi is.

Saiyan.1704:

The guard wont be able to because his JI will be on CD.

Mesmer can peel away and roam elsewhere 10x more easily than a Guard. Not to mention that Portal of his from across the map is 3x better than JI.

1 teleporting skill does not mean Guardian’s are better mobile classes than Mesmer… that’s ridiculous.

Mesmer has phase retreat (600 range; 10s) and blink (1200 range; 24s), while Guardian has sword#2 (600 range; 8s) and JI (1200 range; 36s), which are on comparative cooldowns, respectively. Mesmer also has portal (5000 range, 60s), but many guards run GS, and GS#3 helps mobility a lot. If you average out the distance traveled/CD, mesmer is sitting at 193 m/s, while guard is at 148 m/s. Also keep in mind that quite a few condi mesmers run null field/signet of inspirations over blink.

Saiyan.1704:

We are the slowest class in the game right now. Even slower than Necros! Do not confuse Initial Engagement with +1 roaming abilities… even then, the Mesmer’s shatter 1 shot bursts has us beat!

Condi guard burst is stronger than a condi mesmer (note that the OP specified condi in this discussion).

As far as confusing initial engagement with +1 abilities, they go hand in hand…

Mesmer is your best bet.

While the guardian burn is strong, the fact is can easily be passed back since they only have 1 condition to use (burning).