Guild Wars 2

“Condi is the path to the dark side. Condi leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. And hate leads to gamedeath.”

“Yes, a Pro player’s strength flows from the power build. But beware of the condi side. Chill, fear, weakness; the cond side of the Skilled gameplay are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the condi path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obindo-Wan’s apprentice.”

“If you end your power gameplay now — if you choose the quick and easy play as Vader did — you will become an agent of condi.”

“A Warrior must have the deepest movement reading, the most timing mind. This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the wirlwind, to the eviscerate. Never his mind on where he was. Hmm? What he was doing. Hmph. Burning. Heh. Bleeding. Heh. A Warrior craves not these things.”

“The condi side blinds everything. Impossible to hit the target is.”

” Faith in your new condi build misplaced may be. As is your faith in the condi side of the gameplay. “

Not really fit for this forum but i like all the startrek reverences!

searches for star trek references, only sees star wars

you underestimate condi’s power

Come to the condi side…. we have cookies!

Fun things: this build looks crappy right? Try it (flee from reapers. good lord those guys are op with all the condi transfers).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeTnckCtki1kCmkCEliFjAzIAsBzZJ5ggwH8d4mcfuA-TpxFABH/AAO/QAQeZADOCAns/AAnAAA

This is cancer.

This thread is great. Good job OP.

Serious Thought.5394:

Fun things: this build looks crappy right? Try it (flee from reapers. good lord those guys are op with all the condi transfers).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeTnckCtki1kCmkCEliFjAzIAsBzZJ5ggwH8d4mcfuA-TpxFABH/AAO/QAQeZADOCAns/AAnAAA

This is cancer.

Might want to swap Heat the Soul to something else, since you don’t have a torch equipped in that build.

I won’t comment on the quality overall, but a totally wasted trait should be addressed.

Serious Thought.5394:

Fun things: this build looks crappy right? Try it (flee from reapers. good lord those guys are op with all the condi transfers).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeTnckCtki1kCmkCEliFjAzIAsBzZJ5ggwH8d4mcfuA-TpxFABH/AAO/QAQeZADOCAns/AAnAAA

This is cancer.

No damage mitigation aside from shield and mace block (double endure pain isn’t enough, idk what convinced you this was), no condition cleanse (no wonder you cant handle reapers), no healing (you might have a decent crit rate, but nowhere near enough ferocity to match the healing done by the other healing skills), poor mobility, and a completely wasted trait.

This build IS cancerous. To the user, that is.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Serious Thought.5394:

Fun things: this build looks crappy right? Try it (flee from reapers. good lord those guys are op with all the condi transfers).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeTnckCtki1kCmkCEliFjAzIAsBzZJ5ggwH8d4mcfuA-TpxFABH/AAO/QAQeZADOCAns/AAnAAA

This is cancer.

No damage mitigation aside from shield and mace block (double endure pain isn’t enough, idk what convinced you this was), no condition cleanse (no wonder you cant handle reapers), no healing (you might have a decent crit rate, but nowhere near enough ferocity to match the healing done by the other healing skills), poor mobility, and a completely wasted trait.

This build IS cancerous. To the user, that is.

I’m not convinced its cancerous until someone links me a meme saying it gave them cancer

SlayerSixx.5763:

Serious Thought.5394:

Fun things: this build looks crappy right? Try it (flee from reapers. good lord those guys are op with all the condi transfers).
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApeTnckCtki1kCmkCEliFjAzIAsBzZJ5ggwH8d4mcfuA-TpxFABH/AAO/QAQeZADOCAns/AAnAAA

This is cancer.

No damage mitigation aside from shield and mace block (double endure pain isn’t enough, idk what convinced you this was), no condition cleanse (no wonder you cant handle reapers), no healing (you might have a decent crit rate, but nowhere near enough ferocity to match the healing done by the other healing skills), poor mobility, and a completely wasted trait.

This build IS cancerous. To the user, that is.

There, I fixed it.

Mercenary Ammy

The sigils could be messed around with, but I would say this is a superior build. You could even substitute Discipline for Strength and Distracting Strikes with Body Blow.

Still not an amazing build, but few things on Warrior are.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNApfTnckCtki1kCmkCEliFjAzIAsBzZvD3k7zNJHEE+gA-TpxFABH/AAA4EAcy+DkXG48DBgBHBAA
That moment you realize you had the wrong weapon. And to those saying “oh its cuz you’re builds bad” I’d love to nuke you in one shot in a real match ^.^ Game on. But the real problem is that you cannot blind a Necro’s condi transfers. Check the mace burst, it blinds. However staff 4, dag 4, plague signet, and plague signet trait to do give a single heck. They just go “Oh I got a blind? Now you get a blind and all the other condis”. I honestly think its a bug that Anet does not care about. But again, no its cuz I’m just a shabby player with no skill right. Gotta go online and rub your kittens on the screen to make a point. I get it.

You’re relying entirely on your ability to one shot your target at the start of the fight with conditions…? What happens if they pop resistance, a condi cleanse, or simply dodge some of your burst…? Now you’re left with no healing from your heal skill (again, no ferocity meaning your crits won’t be anywhere near enough to capitalize on its effect). For comparison, guardians have had litany and even with their ridiculously high burn combo damage, they STILL chose shelter AND litany simply heals off a % of all damage dealt, not a % of crits which may or may not happen. The on top of that, you have no damage mitigation from anywhere (not even going to count mace at this point) and no mobility for a reliable escape. This isn’t a good build by any means and isn’t even situational because even if the enemy team left you alone to free cast, you’d still need time to gather adrenaline (unless you want to start burning through utilities, which gimps you even further).

If this build works even in spite of all of its flaws, congratulations, you gotta get out of whatever MMR you’re at lol.

I like the post. But we are not in a condi meta … Maybe the designers are star wars fans. Reaper fully fits the dark side. This is somehow stylish :-)

We’re in a fast and furious meta. Less boons, more wounds.

The Star Trek references are nice, but this seems really off topic.

Impressive, most impressive!

On one hand Reaper probably needs to be tone down (chill damage), on the other hand it’s pretty sad that it’s the only viable pure condi build. Has there ever even been a condi meta? Or at least one not involving Necro?

roamzero.9486:

On one hand Reaper probably needs to be tone down (chill damage), on the other hand it’s pretty sad that it’s the only viable pure condi build. Has there ever even been a condi meta? Or at least one not involving Necro?

The last condi meta was the Dhuumfire meta, so not one not involving Necro.

Velimere.7685:

roamzero.9486:

On one hand Reaper probably needs to be tone down (chill damage), on the other hand it’s pretty sad that it’s the only viable pure condi build. Has there ever even been a condi meta? Or at least one not involving Necro?

The last condi meta was the Dhuumfire meta, so not one not involving Necro.

Well it depends much on what you consider as a condi meta. To me for example, condi have been meta since the 26 january patch. I mean, if you consider the usage of carrion amulet as a definition of condi meta, then you are probably right. But if you consider the total impact condi are actualy having in a match (and i m not talking only about those condition dealing damage) you will have to admit that we actualy ARE in a condi meta, meaning that everything is build around the capacity of application of the condi and the capacity of remove/cleanse them. IN fact actualy running whitout a single condi cleanse is considered going yolo, even more yolo than running without any damage mitigation/immunity like endure pain. In fact, if i have to go yolo and i have to chose if i’m gonna drop endure pain or berserker stance, i will chose to drop endure pain even after the berserker stance nerf.

I understand that the “condition damage recieved” isnt higher than “damage recieved” at the end score panel (oh rlly gladly of this, the day it will be the opposite, guild wars 2 will definetely be death), but in fact the impact that condi like weakness, blind, chill, cripple, immobilize, vulnerability, slow had in the game is much much much more higher than what we are seeing in that final panel score: as an example, you are gonna be burst by a direct damage burst (lets say true shot), you see the animation, you dodge it; in an other case, you have been weakned just 5 seconds ago,ande because of that, in the same situation you see the true shot animation, you try to dodge but notice you have not enough energy… so in the score panel will result that was the direct damage that killed you, but in real it was the weakness that was applyed 5 seconds ago. Condi are having more and more impact in the game, to the point that boon and direct damage are becoming less important than how many condi you actualy have applied in your bar and how many cleanse are on cd.

But the real problem is not if we are in a boon meta, a condi meta, a zerk meta or so… the real problem is that even when we are not in a condi meta, condi gameplay promote a lazy spam gameplay, meaning you will not win because you are fast thinker, or because you are reacting/counterplaying the opponent movement or skills, but because you are fast at spamming randomly buttons, this happens because unfortunately condi are getting too much free application by traits, sigill, runes and too many skills. The reason behind pvers asking for condi buff it was that especialy pvers who are usualy casual players, understand too that playing condi is much more easy than play a glassy zerker, and because they are casual, they dont want to have to train their fast reactions, they wanna do the same damage while beeing lazy… so here we go condi get the buffs!

The real problem is that the condi are not fun… that’s the reason i created this topic, and the fact that even a power based class like warrior is forced to go condi by the direction i’m seeing on anet changing traits and redesigning berserker specialization traits, make me sad… like really really sad. I played pvp yesterday whit my guild leader, he is one of the most patient player i have meet in this game, meaning he can like keep commanding in wvw even when people are lazy or not listening; but even this didnt saved him by ragequitting at the third game we met 2 reapers on the opposite team. And is not a l2p like many people always say, he had always the TOP condi cleared stat at the end of the game, the problem is that the condi spam was so high, that the more condi he cleaned, the more condi he was getting!! To the point where it becomes more efficient try to not even waste time/slot in using cleanse skills, but just go full offensive yolo and try to kill the bunker reaper double life faster than the condi load thicking on you.

The real question is: do you guys like condi? Because if is so, then maybe i’m too different from the mass to be able to find a game that i can enjoy.

Shala.8352:

Velimere.7685:

roamzero.9486:

On one hand Reaper probably needs to be tone down (chill damage), on the other hand it’s pretty sad that it’s the only viable pure condi build. Has there ever even been a condi meta? Or at least one not involving Necro?

The last condi meta was the Dhuumfire meta, so not one not involving Necro.

Well it depends much on what you consider as a condi meta. To me for example, condi have been meta since the 26 january patch. I mean, if you consider the usage of carrion amulet as a definition of condi meta, then you are probably right. But if you consider the total impact condi are actualy having in a match (and i m not talking only about those condition dealing damage) you will have to admit that we actualy ARE in a condi meta, meaning that everything is build around the capacity of application of the condi and the capacity of remove/cleanse them. IN fact actualy running whitout a single condi cleanse is considered going yolo, even more yolo than running without any damage mitigation/immunity like endure pain. In fact, if i have to go yolo and i have to chose if i’m gonna drop endure pain or berserker stance, i will chose to drop endure pain even after the berserker stance nerf.

I understand that the “condition damage recieved” isnt higher than “damage recieved” at the end score panel (oh rlly gladly of this, the day it will be the opposite, guild wars 2 will definetely be death), but in fact the impact that condi like weakness, blind, chill, cripple, immobilize, vulnerability, slow had in the game is much much much more higher than what we are seeing in that final panel score: as an example, you are gonna be burst by a direct damage burst (lets say true shot), you see the animation, you dodge it; in an other case, you have been weakned just 5 seconds ago,ande because of that, in the same situation you see the true shot animation, you try to dodge but notice you have not enough energy… so in the score panel will result that was the direct damage that killed you, but in real it was the weakness that was applyed 5 seconds ago. Condi are having more and more impact in the game, to the point that boon and direct damage are becoming less important than how many condi you actualy have applied in your bar and how many cleanse are on cd.

But the real problem is not if we are in a boon meta, a condi meta, a zerk meta or so… the real problem is that even when we are not in a condi meta, condi gameplay promote a lazy spam gameplay, meaning you will not win because you are fast thinker, or because you are reacting/counterplaying the opponent movement or skills, but because you are fast at spamming randomly buttons, this happens because unfortunately condi are getting too much free application by traits, sigill, runes and too many skills. The reason behind pvers asking for condi buff it was that especialy pvers who are usualy casual players, understand too that playing condi is much more easy than play a glassy zerker, and because they are casual, they dont want to have to train their fast reactions, they wanna do the same damage while beeing lazy… so here we go condi get the buffs!

The real problem is that the condi are not fun… that’s the reason i created this topic, and the fact that even a power based class like warrior is forced to go condi by the direction i’m seeing on anet changing traits and redesigning berserker specialization traits, make me sad… like really really sad. I played pvp yesterday whit my guild leader, he is one of the most patient player i have meet in this game, meaning he can like keep commanding in wvw even when people are lazy or not listening; but even this didnt saved him by ragequitting at the third game we met 2 reapers on the opposite team. And is not a l2p like many people always say, he had always the TOP condi cleared stat at the end of the game, the problem is that the condi spam was so high, that the more condi he cleaned, the more condi he was getting!! To the point where it becomes more efficient try to not even waste time/slot in using cleanse skills, but just go full offensive yolo and try to kill the bunker reaper double life faster than the condi load thicking on you.

The real question is: do you guys like condi? Because if is so, then maybe i’m too different from the mass to be able to find a game that i can enjoy.

I disagree.

I do like condies and being able to build around it. When only a single class is meta with condi builds i don´t count this as condi meta.
I agree that a lot of criple, weakness, vul and some random damage condis are flying around and you need something to get rid of this. As you said you don´t die to condi damage, you are hindered to have full potential by condies.
For me this is OK, but aplying condies should come from a build and not be something you just get for random spam. If i build an offensive support build that hinders oponents its fine. If i just get weaken and criple for free in my power build it´s not good.
I definitly run a lot condi removal. In PvP i stick to my soldier rune build…
So its no real condi meta but it forces you to run condi defence ….

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

I don’t like condis. They’re coarse and rough and irritating, and they get everywhere.

There was only 2 condi meta, some time ago: The Dhuum fire meta and before the release of HoT, when there was the fix of traits. The guardian was really strong with Burn, the ele much more. Everyone that was able to spam burn was good (the necro at this time was in meta only why was the only one able to kill an ele in 1vs1, then wasn’t in the condi meta why condi but only why a corrupter).

Actually there’s a large amount of conditions on the game, but isn’t a condi meta.
Every class take advantage of immobilize, blind, cripple, chill (still without damage), weakness, vulnerability, slow. All conditions that don’t inflict damage (chilled only traited by a reaper).
Then there’s only 2 builds that really work with conditions: chillsignet reaper and mallyx revenant. But there’s also some warriors that can deal really high damage with conditions (Sword Bers F1 is really good to burn burst someone). And some mesmers, but only few.

Then there’s some bleed from the thief, but is a collateral effect from the evasion skill spam (sometime too spammy.)

Condi meta mean that the damage dealt by conditons is higher than damage dealt by direct damage. Then, it’s not a condi meta.

Even the Reaper isn’t a pure condition build, expecially now. If you look at the main build, he’s using mercenary not only why have tough, also why have the same amount of power and condition damage, and about traits use also the one to increase critical rate depending on the vulnerability on the enemy. That why condition damage by itself is not enough to kill someone, or not fast enough.

With that build frequently I deal a little more direct damage than condi damage. Something like 170k direct and 150k condi.

There’s a large amount of conditions, but more conditions to CC and weak the enemy (also derivated by boon corruption) than conditions that deal damage.

I looked at a video of a streamer that screamed every time he was fulled with conditions crying why the conditions killed him. But looking at What conditions he was suffering was easy to see that he was killed at 70% by direct damage, there was only a lot of not-damaging conditions.

You have always to add in your build a condi clean more to clean vulnerability, immobilize, poison and eventually a damaging condition if you’re facing a condition build, but in that meta the only class that play “full condition” (why isn’t full, is half direct damage) is the necro reaper chillmancer.

Actually there’s a Direct Damage Meta.

I followed the path to the dark side.But on my way there I walked in a DH trap and died.

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.

On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.

Laraley.7695:

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.

On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.

With the aid of some math concepts, you can still see the ratio.

I would love it if there were less condis and boons in general. Its wierd not many realize or comment on how many boons there are and how they effect gameplay.

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Lol +1.

As I love to say in every one of the “condi’s are OP” threads; people just hate conditions because they get to think about it before they die.

“It’s all Condi-Wan’s fault! He’s holding me back!” – Anakin Crywalker

“Poweeeeeer!!!! Unnnlimmmmitttted Pooooooooweeeeeeerrr!!!!!!” – Old Man

Serious Thought.5394:

searches for star trek references, only sees star wars

“Live Long and Condi”… okays corny as it may be…

But yeah I’m waiting to see more people running pure anti condi builds now to come out. We know its going to happen cause Reaper and Necro arent’ the only condi players that spam conditions… So too do shatter condi mesmers and others as well.

I’m already seeing more and more people having the resistance things orbiting them… Its rather annoying… but just wait for the resistance to fall and condi them down while they try to cleanse.

Also be careful, non damaging conditions like Fear, Blind, Chill, Immobilize (ranger version)… all can cause damage. Ranger’s immobilizing elite is a nice little damage, but not true condi damage.

On Reaper/Necro I have my blinds feeding my Deathly Chill damage. As in I blind you, I also put a 1.5 second chill damage on you that ticks twice actually.

My fear is a two hit 900 damage condi too…

Then add into that I can stack vulnerability and all other damaging conditions on someone… I can kill with conditions, I’ve had around a 9k tick total just from Dhumm Fire, Vulnerabilities, Chills and Poison on a person… Gone higher with the Bleeds but they require a lot of effort to keep up time. I probably was higher than 9k…

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.

On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.

With the aid of some math concepts, you can still see the ratio.

What ratio? You think removing 240 condi from self and 92 from allies is a lot? Cute.

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.

On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.

With the aid of some math concepts, you can still see the ratio.

What ratio? You think removing 240 condi from self and 92 from allies is a lot? Cute.

I get around that just from having Plague Signet equipped…

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.

On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.

With the aid of some math concepts, you can still see the ratio.

What ratio? You think removing 240 condi from self and 92 from allies is a lot? Cute.

lol ignorance is a bliss

ratio
?re?????/Submit
noun
the quantitative relation between two amounts showing the number of times one value contains or is contained within the other.

In simpler words for you, means that no matter the scale (low, mid, big) the ratio will be about the same … in the case of the picture, explained to you… only 7% of the damage came from conditions… wich means, condition damage is not a problem …

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

Crinn.7864:

kuritsutian.2987:

In a nutshell (conditions removed)

19k condi damage taken compared to 250k power damage taken.

Condi OP!

Because we can actually see what he was up against to decide if the condition dmg was high or not.

On another note the damage/healing he did was low, too so who knows what happened there.

With the aid of some math concepts, you can still see the ratio.

What ratio? You think removing 240 condi from self and 92 from allies is a lot? Cute.

lol ignorance is a bliss

ratio
?re?/Submit
noun
the quantitative relation between two amounts showing the number of times one value contains or is contained within the other.

In simpler words for you, means that no matter the scale (low, mid, big) the ratio will be about the same … in the case of the picture, explained to you… only 7% of the damage came from conditions… wich means, condition damage is not a problem …

Again, so what? What were your opponents? What builds they were running? Why did you so little dmg/healing/anything and then posted the screenshot to prove something when it means kitten nothing?

Like just wow. If I post a screenshot when I take almost no direct dmg, will it prove something? Of course not. But keep trying.

why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.

kuritsutian.2987:

why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.

Sigh. If you don’t see the relevance then not sure what to tell you. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build, but your support stats are low, too. In that case there weren’t so many fights in the game or you just didn’t engage in them.

If I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on power will the endstat mean something? No.
f I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on condi will the endstat mean something?

Will the stats mean something without context? No.

I’m in a game against 5 condi reapers, they did only 20K condi damage through the whole game to me. Does it mean something? Yes.

The meta isn’t condi, most spec will be playing power. Revenants also shifted to power, too. Does that mean condition damage is fine globally? Not really. If there is only one or few classes with over the top condi spam, it won’t really be projected into stats like this. If every or most classes were like that, sure.

Before patch I normally cleansed 1K condi from allies and maybe third of that from me. Condition damage recieved was always lower than physical. Did that mean viper revenant was ok? Hell, no.

Context please, it’s important.

people are not reading much i think.
The problem is not the condi damage itself, but the condi spam.
Just to give you an idea of what i’m talking about, yesterday i had fun simulating myself to be an Anet developer balance team and making suggestions. Here is the trailer on the incomign autoprocs traits changes we have in mind to help those casual players who are struggling in our game, that we think is too much skill oriented:
“When opponent dodge, inflicta aoe weakness (600 radius) for 5 seconds.”
“When your endurance bar is empty, inflict blind to enemy target (no cd)”
“When opponent activates an healing skill with cast time, inflict poison for 8 seconds”
“When opponent get a boon, corrupt it (no cd)”
“If opponent has 25% faster movement trait selected, inflict him cripple for 90 seconds”
“When the opponent use a stun breaker, stun him for 5 seconds (10 sec cd)”
" From now, any target ground area attack will inflict every conditions in the game. The reason we decided for this change, was that we think is too hard to get the true damage potential from target ground skills, because opponent can always run out of it. With this change we want also to improve the condition spam cuz we like to see players bar full of them, and players not beeing able to use their melee skills cuz chilled/crippled/weakened"
“If the opponent use a full melee set of weapons, inflict him cripple and chill for 5 seconds (no cd). Reason of this change, is that we think that even while most ranged attacks are actualy dealing more damage than melee attacks, we still think it’s too hard to kite those melee easy players”

ok now asaid from the joke, i invite you condi lovers to try to notice how much this traits/skills arent far from the gw2 gameplay reality.

And also, i want to add that those condi spam like cripple/weakness/blind have not the same impact between classes. Blind a warrior you annihilate him, blind a necro he will say chat “who cares i put a random aoe in the ground and i will still hit you and even remove the blind!!!” Weakness on a warrior you delete his 50% damage potential (even more if he is based on critical hits), weakness on a condi player he will be like “who cares”.
Cripple a ranged class, he will be like “ok i’m crippled, but i can still be able to land my attacks on range”, cripple a warrior and he wont be able to hit you cuz you will kite him!! I think cripple should be a condition that only melee weapons should be able to inflict for example…

This brings certain class to just ignore the cleanse on certain conditions, and focus more on cleanse on condi burst, wich makes them much more easier to play.
As an another example, i m often forced to pop berserker stance on a blind spam thief cuz else i’m not able to hit him. This will open a weakness on my defence and thief will just notice the incoming danger and start kiting untill resistence run out, and start spamming blind again. Or in another similar situation, if i’m forced to use berserker stance just to avoid blind spam on a team fight, i wont be able to use it when i should use it, for example on a reaper condi bomb.

I already have proposed this thing a lot of thousaand times, to make only no damage condition cleansable so that condi damage will result in his real form of competitive dmg (and people will finaly start to understand the opness of them, but this is the price to get all the class at the same level when afflicted by certain conditions), or just decrease drasticaly the ways you can apply chill, blind, weakness, slow (this one is actualy okay), i would like these conditions to be applicable only on combo activations, to add some skill gameplay to the Spam Condi Wars 2.

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.

Sigh. If you don’t see the relevance then not sure what to tell you. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build, but your support stats are low, too. In that case there weren’t so many fights in the game or you just didn’t engage in them.

If I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on power will the endstat mean something? No.
f I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on condi will the endstat mean something?

Will the stats mean something without context? No.

I’m in a game against 5 condi reapers, they did only 20K condi damage through the whole game to me. Does it mean something? Yes.

The meta isn’t condi, most spec will be playing power. Revenants also shifted to power, too. Does that mean condition damage is fine globally? Not really. If there is only one or few classes with over the top condi spam, it won’t really be projected into stats like this. If every or most classes were like that, sure.

Before patch I normally cleansed 1K condi from allies and maybe third of that from me. Condition damage recieved was always lower than physical. Did that mean viper revenant was ok? Hell, no.

Context please, it’s important.

Altho I agree with several things you said, the idea of the statistics is to give conclusive data witout having to explore the whole scenarios using a sample population. despite that you seems to agree now that the damage dealt by condis is much less than the one done by power… was all I was showing… You also said that saying that you took 200000K damage from condis means a lot, but then again.. ratio… if you took that damage, for condis, but took 3 times as much from power … then it means nothing. … that’s the ratio thing I am talking about…
Damage taken by condis can be affected by several things, play style and role being one and build being a most important fact… a good excercise would be trying to play a match with no condi cleanses and see this ratio. … that is tho, unpractical.

As of playstyle of my particular build, it’s a roamer, hard cc chain while dealing high spike damage on a single target (hence the low damage statistic), some support is provided but not the main focuss.

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.

Sigh. If you don’t see the relevance then not sure what to tell you. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build, but your support stats are low, too. In that case there weren’t so many fights in the game or you just didn’t engage in them.

If I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on power will the endstat mean something? No.
f I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on condi will the endstat mean something?

Will the stats mean something without context? No.

I’m in a game against 5 condi reapers, they did only 20K condi damage through the whole game to me. Does it mean something? Yes.

The meta isn’t condi, most spec will be playing power. Revenants also shifted to power, too. Does that mean condition damage is fine globally? Not really. If there is only one or few classes with over the top condi spam, it won’t really be projected into stats like this. If every or most classes were like that, sure.

Before patch I normally cleansed 1K condi from allies and maybe third of that from me. Condition damage recieved was always lower than physical. Did that mean viper revenant was ok? Hell, no.

Context please, it’s important.

Altho I agree with several things you said, the idea of the statistics is to give conclusive data witout having to explore the whole scenarios using a sample population. despite that you seems to agree now that the damage dealt by condis is much less than the one done by power… was all I was showing… You also said that saying that you took 200000K damage from condis means a lot, but then again.. ratio… if you took that damage, for condis, but took 3 times as much from power … then it means nothing. … that’s the ratio thing I am talking about…
Damage taken by condis can be affected by several things, play style and role being one and build being a most important fact… a good excercise would be trying to play a match with no condi cleanses and see this ratio. … that is tho, unpractical.

As of playstyle of my particular build, it’s a roamer, hard cc chain while dealing high spike damage on a single target (hence the low damage statistic), some support is provided but not the main focuss.

Sigh, once again.

Overall low condition taken doesn’t mean anything if only one or a few classes have over the top condition spam. Idk what’s so hard to understand about that.

Once you face 5 condi reapers and take close to zero condition damage, come post a screenshot. Ratio means kitten nothing, really.

Conditions and CC are killing this game.
This subject is extremely sensible, and should be well thought.

Developers should remember CC killed a huge part of WoW and many many players left it for this simple reason, even if it had Diminishing Returns. In 2012 this was exactly why Anet win (WoW had huge CC by going in arena as healer just to get CC, while GuildWars2 had no healer and far less CC).

Right now they removed bunker, but added lots of healing, plus more CC. I have a feeling history will repeat itself: lots of CC and players leaving games.

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

Laraley.7695:

kuritsutian.2987:

why do you keep bringing the damage I dealt to a discussion about condi being OP or not? don’t see the relevance (maybe you are looking at the wrong fields (damage received)) , I can post the screenshots of all my matches (already checked this) and damage from condis would never exceed the 30% (was the max on a match againist 2 necros) …. in the case of this pic, I fought a necro, rev, druid, guard and mesmer.

Sigh. If you don’t see the relevance then not sure what to tell you. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build, but your support stats are low, too. In that case there weren’t so many fights in the game or you just didn’t engage in them.

If I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on power will the endstat mean something? No.
f I spend most of the game 1v1 on far with a bunker based on condi will the endstat mean something?

Will the stats mean something without context? No.

I’m in a game against 5 condi reapers, they did only 20K condi damage through the whole game to me. Does it mean something? Yes.

The meta isn’t condi, most spec will be playing power. Revenants also shifted to power, too. Does that mean condition damage is fine globally? Not really. If there is only one or few classes with over the top condi spam, it won’t really be projected into stats like this. If every or most classes were like that, sure.

Before patch I normally cleansed 1K condi from allies and maybe third of that from me. Condition damage recieved was always lower than physical. Did that mean viper revenant was ok? Hell, no.

Context please, it’s important.

Altho I agree with several things you said, the idea of the statistics is to give conclusive data witout having to explore the whole scenarios using a sample population. despite that you seems to agree now that the damage dealt by condis is much less than the one done by power… was all I was showing… You also said that saying that you took 200000K damage from condis means a lot, but then again.. ratio… if you took that damage, for condis, but took 3 times as much from power … then it means nothing. … that’s the ratio thing I am talking about…
Damage taken by condis can be affected by several things, play style and role being one and build being a most important fact… a good excercise would be trying to play a match with no condi cleanses and see this ratio. … that is tho, unpractical.

As of playstyle of my particular build, it’s a roamer, hard cc chain while dealing high spike damage on a single target (hence the low damage statistic), some support is provided but not the main focuss.

Sigh, once again.

Overall low condition taken doesn’t mean anything if only one or a few classes have over the top condition spam. Idk what’s so hard to understand about that.

Once you face 5 condi reapers and take close to zero condition damage, come post a screenshot. Ratio means kitten nothing, really.

mmmkaaay :v

Laraley.7695:

. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build,

Random side correction. Low damage taken actually means they aren’t a bunker or support.

Bunker/supports tend to have high damage taken because they last much longer, and typically have much more healing. (the more healing a target has the more damage required to kill it)

Glass cannons tend to have less damage taken than anyone since the amount of damage they can take before dying is very low.

In fact in most cases a glass cannon that dies 12 times in a match will have much less damage taken than a bunker that sits in a teamfight the entire match and never dies.

Crinn.7864:

Laraley.7695:

. Low dmg recieved/dealt means either support/bunker type of build,

Random side correction. Low damage taken actually means they aren’t a bunker or support.

Bunker/supports tend to have high damage taken because they last much longer, and typically have much more healing. (the more healing a target has the more damage required to kill it)

Glass cannons tend to have less damage taken than anyone since the amount of damage they can take before dying is very low.

In fact in most cases a glass cannon that dies 12 times in a match will have much less damage taken than a bunker that sits in a teamfight the entire match and never dies.

Taken from context, but I might have worded it poorly. What I meant is if you have low dmg dealt you’re either bunker or you didn’t fight. If you have low dmg taken it’s the latter. On a support build obv.

Laraley.7695:

Once you face 5 condi reapers and take close to zero condition damage, come post a screenshot. Ratio means kitten nothing, really.

That’s kind of a dumb argument. Saying “well if you fight nothing but condi builds…” is asinine because of course if you fight all condi builds you’ll have high condi damage taken.

However you rarely if ever encounter teams that are pure condi builds or pure power builds. Nearly all matches are mixed.

Also anecdotally having <25k condi damage taken is fairly common. In the matches that I’ve checked I’ve never seen condi damage taken exceed power damage taken, and in most cases my condi damage taken is usually no more than a third of power damage taken.

Laraley.7695:

Taken from context, but I might have worded it poorly. What I meant is if you have low dmg dealt you’re either bunker or you didn’t fight. If you have low dmg taken it’s the latter. On a support build obv.

My mistake. I just saw the “damage received” implies bunker and went “huh wut?!”

Alin.2468:

Conditions and CC are killing this game.
This subject is extremely sensible, and should be well thought.

Developers should remember CC killed a huge part of WoW and many many players left it for this simple reason, even if it had Diminishing Returns. In 2012 this was exactly why Anet win (WoW had huge CC by going in arena as healer just to get CC, while GuildWars2 had no healer and far less CC).

Right now they removed bunker, but added lots of healing, plus more CC. I have a feeling history will repeat itself: lots of CC and players leaving games.

While I think this game CC is a bit oppressive, comparing it to WoW is deceptive. WoW in general has less CC than GW2, but in WoW CC’s have much longer durations. Much of WoW’s arena pvp revolves around controlling given targets for insane periods of time (I recall that during one of WoW tourneys they had players getting controlled for over half of the match time.)

GW2 CC is more focused on lots and lots of short duration CCs. Long term control doesn’t exist here, but it possible to completely prevent a player from getting important casts off. “Interupt spam” is a issue.

Personally I believe that CC should be only be from CC dedicated abilities. I think that having dazes and stuns attached to standard rotation abilities is nightmarish.

Crinn.7864:

Laraley.7695:

Once you face 5 condi reapers and take close to zero condition damage, come post a screenshot. Ratio means kitten nothing, really.

That’s kind of a dumb argument. Saying “well if you fight nothing but condi builds…” is asinine because of course if you fight all condi builds you’ll have high condi damage taken.

However you rarely if ever encounter teams that are pure condi builds or pure power builds. Nearly all matches are mixed.

Also anecdotally having <25k condi damage taken is fairly common. In the matches that I’ve checked I’ve never seen condi damage taken exceed power damage taken, and in most cases my condi damage taken is usually no more than a third of power damage taken.

Laraley.7695:

Taken from context, but I might have worded it poorly. What I meant is if you have low dmg dealt you’re either bunker or you didn’t fight. If you have low dmg taken it’s the latter. On a support build obv.

My mistake. I just saw the “damage received” implies bunker and went “huh wut?!”

Did you even read what I said?

As long as we have no clue what he was up against, his ratio is completely useless. )¨

Edit: Condition damage will ALWAYS be lower than direct, doesn’t change the fact ONE class is broken in a way related to condition damage. I feel like I have to repeat myself in every single post.

Laraley.7695:

Did you even read what I said?

As long as we have no clue what he was up against, his ratio is completely useless. )

I’m aware of that. I was speaking in generalities.
To avoid potential confusion I will state that my original post of “19k condi vs 250k power” was a jab a the poster who at that time seemed to be trying to say condis where OP because of how many he was cleansing.

Edit: Condition damage will ALWAYS be lower than direct, doesn’t change the fact ONE class is broken in a way related to condition damage. I feel like I have to repeat myself in every single post.

I was not directly challenging your position, I was taking a hypothetical you posed (5 condi reapers) and pointing out how unrealistic such a scenario is.